Dems need to knock McCain out of the puke primaries

[fujiyama]

OK, we can delude ourselves all we want but John McCain is incredibly popular among many independants and even some clueless Dems. If Hillary is our nominee against him, we are f*cked. Hell, it's an uphill battle regardless.

That's exactly why liberal groups should look to sponsor ads attacking McCain from the right. It should be an absolute priority starting now.

This is similar to what Gray Davis did in the CA gub. primaries. He was able to knock out Riordin who would have been a tougher opponent.

Sometimes it amazes me when people say, 'Well Clark shouldn't have a problem'. Well, Clark has little name recognition outside of the internet. Yes, he should be able to kick McCain or any other stupid puke's ass in a fair and sane world, but things aren't that simple. McCain is known as a great maverick with an amazing life story. To some extent, I'll admit that as a clueless eighteen year old at the time, McCain is partly what MADE me interested in politics at the time.

Granted, I've since been disgusted by him and have little use for him or his bullshit now, but make no mistake there are plenty out there still fascinated by him.

Him, and or Hagel would make strong candidates and we shouldn't take them lightly. Granted, I still believe many in the RW base dislike McCain (and I believe Hagel's chance of capturing the nomination is even less likely), but since then he has to some extent made amends with those that dispareged him and his family.

[montana500]

1. Id rather have him in there.

If we lose, it won't be as bad with Mcain.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

4. Lol.

:rofl:

[montana500]

22. Would you rather have MCain or Bush?

MCain is pretty good on the environment, and is more mainstream. He is pro-movement on climate change, among other things.

It would be nice, that if we did lose, that our president wasnt a right wing nut job like our current one.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

25. Hobson's choice.

:rofl:


I'd rather have Chimp because it's more up front. Psst...McCain is a right wing nutjob.

[montana500]

35. Not as bas as Bush.

nm

[knight_of_the_star]

37. ROFLMAO

Sorry but the difference of "as bad" is like saying we won't be roasted alive "as hot" with McCain as with Bushco. Voting and accepting the lesser of the two and that "not as bad" being an improvement shows something is seriously wrong with how you vote and choose candidates in my book.

[TheWraith]

2. McCain is DOA.

He's not fundie enough for the Repubs. Plus he'll be what, 72? And he has had health issues. And last but not least, he's been carrying water for Shrub, which would be a big burden to live down if Bush ends up bring looked at as the Nixon of the modern era, which he already has a big start on. Despite his popularity, he was beaten by Shrub in 2000, and he's weaker than ever before.

[IndianaGreen]

28. Fundies dominate the GOP primaries

McCain is opposed by the likes of Dobson, Falwell, and Robertson.

I don't know why the OP is hitting the panic button about MCCain, or why he/she wants Hillary so bad.

McCain and Hillary are bad for America!

[GrpCaptMandrake]

3. We start by remembering and reinvigorating

McCain's sleazy association with grift and graft. I wouldn't trust McCain in an outhouse with a muzzle on! There's something about him that screams "Manchurian Candidate!"

[benny05]

5. He's a gadfly

and has been for a long time. Yet, he was outmuzzled by Bush and his ilk in SC 2000.

[still_one]

6. nominate Feingold

If Kerry, Hillary Clinton, or even Gore win the nomination, none of them will get my vote

I have the greatest confidence that the democrats will make every excuse why feingold shouldn't be nominated. They will say he is too liberal, or he doesn't appeal to the moderates in this country

Well, after 35 years of voting in this country, I will accept NO compromises again

I know I will hear that if you don't support the democratic candidate no matter what then it will be dire consequences for the U.S. and everyone else. That was the case in 2004, and we put up a candidate that wouldn't even defend his Viet Nam war record after he brought it up in the convention. He remained silent when the swift puke liars went after him. For me their is no more excuses. I will ONLY vote for the person now who truely represents progressive ideas, not political talk.

When Feingold was asked why he voted against the Patriot Act in 2001, he said, "BECAUSE I READ IT"

[countmyvote4real]

8. I'm leaning that way, too. And Green if I have no options. n/t

[Gman]

12. You ONLY option is voting for the Democratic nominee

that kind of thinking is what got us Nader and then Bush in '00.

[still_one]

17. I hope I won't have to, but I will go green also if hillary or kerry

is the nominee

[Clarkansas]

18. I, like most other third party supporters in 2000, regret my wasted vote

and I won't make the same mistake again.

Just say no to third parties that enable republicans.

[still_one]

21. 2000 and 2004 were different

that is when it really counted

I supported Gore in 2000 and Kerry in 2004 big time. Not only was the entire voting turnout pathetic, but NOTHING was done to insure that there would be oversite to insure the voting was correct after 2000, though we were assured by the Kerry camp that they had everything under control

In fact for the last 6 years the democrats have rubber stamped most everything this administration has thrown at them, except for a few TRUE AMERICANS in Congress, we don't really have an opposition party

Look who actually stopped the Patriot act from being renewed without revision, Russ Feingold

Alito, the spying on us, and quite a few issues will be coming up before 2006

I am watching the Democrats VERY carefully to see if they truely represent my interests, and perhaps I will start to give again to the DNC, otherwise, I will just donate to individual candidate

[Hippo_Tron]

10. Feingold is my first choice, but I will enthusiastically support Gore

Ever since Gore lost in 2000 he has really started standing up for what is right. He has been at serious odds with Al From and the DLC and he was against Iraq from a start. From what I hear he doesn't even speak to Joe Lieberman anymore and he endorsed Howard Dean in '04.

But I would much prefer Feingold. Feingold has been fighting for the right things in US Senate for 13 years now. Howard Dean and Al Gore look like serious Johnny Come-Lately's compared to Feingold. But I guess that someone who catches on late is better than someone who never catches on.

[LunaC]

31. Did you know that the DLC and PNAC share the same origin?

Current PNAC members were proteges of Henry (*'Scoop”) Jackson and Daniel Patrick (“Pat”) Moynihan


“…look at the 1970s, when the neo-conservatives in the Democratic Party grouped themselves into the Coalition for a Democratic Majority (CDM). The CDM's two leading lights in Congress were the Democratic Senators Henry "Scoop" Jackson and Patrick Moynihan. The Cold Warrior and fanatically pro-Israel Jackson remains the model for the DLC crowd today. The DLC's former President, Sen. Joe Lieberman declares he is proud to be identified as a " 'Scoop' Jackson Democrat." It was these two Senators' offices that housed the Leo Straussian "Children of Satan" behind the no-exit Iraq War.

From Jackson's staff came:

* Paul Wolfowitz, now Deputy Secretary of Defense and a leading
Straussian chicken-hawk;

* Richard Perle (on Jackson's staff from 1969 until going into the Defense Department in 1981), and until his recent forced resignation, chairman of Rumsfeld's Defense Policy Board. It is reported that Perle maintains Democratic Party membership to this day, out of fealty to Scoop. Perle later brought along Doug Feith, now Rumsfeld's Undersecretary for Policy, who has been a Perle "groupie" since the late 1970s, largely due to Feith's family background deep in the terrorist movement founded by Zionist fascist Vladimir Jabotinsky. In the 1980s, Feith financed Perle through the International Advisers Inc., a firm in which Feith was the only stockholder;

* Frank Gaffney, who heads the Center for Security Policy, a "private" neo-con group which cheerleads for imperial wars and brutally anti-Palestinian policies;

From Moynihan's office came:

* Elliott Abrams, an Iran/Contra convict who now tries to shape Administration Middle East policy from the National Security Council staff;

* Abram Shulsky, who heads the Office of Special Plans under Feith in the Pentagon, which concocted fraudulent intelligence estimates used by the Administration to justify the Iraq War;

* Gary Schmitt, the head of the empire-promoting Project for a New American Century and a close collaborator of Shulsky. Schmitt worked under Roy Godson of the National Strategy Information Center in the early 1980s. Anti-LaRouche operative Godson was active in the CDM in the 1970s, narrowly escaped prosecution in the Iran-Contra scandals of the 1980s, and now is a consultant to Feith and Shulsky's Office of Special Plans.


http://www.leftgatekeepers.com/articles/MissingLinkHowRightWingNeoConsCreatedDemocraticLeadershipCouncilByMicheleSteinberg.htm

I was pretty shocked to learn how the DLC and PNAC share the same heritage. Now we have a better understanding of Lieberman and why so many oppose him - he's from the Democratic branch of PNAC!

[emulatorloo]

16. revisionist history

Kerry repeatedly called on GWB to stop the swifties.

Had an ad with his swiftboat team/Jim Rassman talking about kerry rescuing him, etc countering swifties.

Gave speeches where he challenged swifties.

Put official navy records up on the internet to challenge swifties.

Authorized Max Cleland to go to Crawford in a Cyndie-style protest to meet w Bush to stop swifties. Bush refused to meet. Max's wheel chair almost got knocked over.

et cetera

MEDIA BURIED IT, while giving non-stop airtime to swifties.

And All Major Dems should have flown out like the Rove Flying Monkees to non-stop defend Kerry. But they didn't.



PS I love Feingold! I am proud of all liberal Dems in the senate. Ratings of 3 for comparison:
Kerry Lifetime Voting Rating ADA 92
Feingold Lifetime Voting Rating ADA 98
Kennedy Lifetime Voting Rating ADA 90

http://www.adaction.org to find out about ADA (a liberal lobbying group)
http://www.adaction.org/votingrecords.htm for voting records

PS HAPPY HOLIDAYS!!!!!! TO ALL AT DU

[leftstreet]

7. Just use this as the anti-McCain ad...

[Hippo_Tron]

9. That was my dad's thinking in 2000

I think I remember him saying that he was going to vote for Bush in the primary because there was no way that he could win the general election.

Five years later, I think that he is starting to regret that decision.

[Gman]

11. Not to worry

The extreme right wing will make damn sure McCain doesn't get the nomination.

[snowbear]

13. Yup... He's too old.. too shakey healthwise - and the far right hates him

Besides.. his background of dissing Asians and courting extreme racists will come back to haunt him..

Stop worrying! :grouphug:

[Selteri]

14. Actually, we want McCain around for the Presidential...

then we can note that he's just another corrupt politician and point out the censure he got back in the 90s for his stunt with whatever, peoplewouldn't touch him then because they'd be reminded that the last time epublicans were in office they were crooks still.

[snowbear]

15. You've got a good point there ....

Hell's Bell's, I could care less if he runs...

And I don't care who ultimately becomes their nominee...

We are going to win --- NO two ways about it. America wants the change. :patriot:

....NOPE, you've had your turn bud..

[Douglas Carpenter]

20. in politics perception is everything

although a simple review of his record will reveal McCain as a right-winger and a partisan and not a bipartisan-moderate. That is not how he is generally perceived. "IF" he can sustain that image. He will be hard to beat-even if the image conflicts with reality

[Douglas Carpenter]

19. Clinton and Lieberman vs. Allen and McCain -- voting record

Interest Group ratings to give some perspective

This is courtesy of project vote smart - link:

http://www.vote-smart.org/index.htm
_____________________


Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Nuclear Age Peace Foundation 67 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Lieberman supported the interests of the Nuclear Age Peace Foundation 33 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the Nuclear Age Peace Foundation 0 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Nuclear Age Peace Foundation 0 percent in 2004.
_________________________________


2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Peace Action 75 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Lieberman supported the interests of the Peace Action 38 percent in 2004

2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the Peace Action 0 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Peace Action 13 percent in 2004.
______________________________________

2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Abortion Reproductive Rights Action League 100 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Lieberman supported the interests of the National Abortion Reproductive Rights Action League 100 percent in 2004

2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the National Abortion Reproductive Rights Action League 0 percent in 2004

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the National Abortion Reproductive Rights Action League 0 percent in 2004.
__________________

2003-2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Civil Liberties Union 78 percent in 2003-2004

2003-2004 Senator Lieberman supported the interests of the American Civil Liberties Union 83 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the American Civil Liberties Union 0 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the American Civil Liberties Union 22 percent in 2003-2004.
_____________________________

2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Americans for Democratic Action 95
percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Lieberman supported the interests of the Americans for Democratic Action 75 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the Americans for Democratic Action 15 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Americans for Democratic Action 35 percent in 2004.
__________________________

2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the AFL-CIO 100 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Lieberman supported the interests of the AFL-CIO 83 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the AFL-CIO 17 percent in 2004..

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the AFL-CIO 33 percent in 2004.
_________________________

2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the United Auto Workers 110 percent in 2004

2004 Senator Lieberman supported the interests of the United Auto Workers 92 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the United Auto Workers 9 percent in 2004

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the United Auto Workers 9 percent in 2004.
__________________________

2003-2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Education Association 85 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator Lieberman supported the interests of the National Education Association 88 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the National Education Association 25 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the National Education Association 35 percent in 2003-2004.
______________________

2003-2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Human Rights Campaign 88 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator Lieberman supported the interests of the Human Rights Campaign 88 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the Human Rights Campaign 13 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Human Rights Campaign 25 percent in 2003-2004.
_____________________________________

2003-2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights 100 percent in 2003-2004

2003-2004 Senator Lieberman supported the interests of the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights 95 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights 7 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights 14 percent in 2003-2004.
_____________________________

2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Arab American Institute 25 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Lieberman supported the interests of the Arab American Institute 50 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the Arab American Institute 0 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Arab American Institute 0 percent in 2004.
__________________________

2003-2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the League of Conservation Voters 92 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator Lieberman supported the interests of the League of Conservation Voters 56 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the League of Conservation Voters 0 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the League of Conservation Voters 56 percent in 2003-2004

____________________________

2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Christian Coalition 0 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Lieberman supported the interests of the Christian Coalition 0 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the Christian Coalition 100 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the Christian Coalition 83 percent in 2004.
_____________________________

2004 Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Conservative Union 0 percent in 2004

2004 Senator Lieberman supported the interests of the American Conservative Union 0 percent in 2004..

2004 Senator Allen supported the interests of the American Conservative Union 92 percent in 2004.

2004 Senator McCain supported the interests of the American Conservative Union 72 percent in 2004.

[BenDavid]

23. Hey, you are right and

we will get the chance pretty soon in 08 to see just how hypocritical those on the right really are. Hey, we been saying they are a bunch of hypocrites over there, but I say hold on to your hat, cause we are going to see the truth come forward in 08.

[IndianaGreen]

24. Don't nominate Hillary!

We need our people to vote in our primaries, for no other reason but to make sure that the Democratic Party does not commit suicide by nominating a prowar candidate and a panderer such as Hillary.

[ProgressAlwaysWins]

26. If the Dems run Hillary against McCain...

even *I* am going to vote for McCain, for fuck's sake.

Come on. Do we want to retake the White House, or do we not? Running Hillary Clinton is going to be the equivalent of political suicide. I'd like to believe that my own party wouldn't be that stupid.

[Saint Stephen]

27. What exactly are your issues with him such that you hate him so much?

[IndianaGreen]

36. He could be a member of the growing Hillary cult

McCain won't get the GOP nomination simply because he is not a puppet of the Religious Right. As to the general election, McCain has been a shameless supporter of everything that Bush has done. McCain has nothing to offer this country except more insanity!

[0007]

29. Don''t worry the right wingers will do it for us!

[zulchzulu]

30. Repugs are already munching on his legs...let them eat him up

If you think McCain is going to get the nomination for Repugite in 2008... he's been strung along and has stuck his nose into Chimpy's shitpile of lies, but it ain't gonna happen.

Allen, Frist or someon who has sucked up to the Reich Wing will be the nominee...

[peace frog]

32. I'm praying for a Newt Gingrich candidacy

He makes Hillary look great by comparison.

What we really need is a popular but wacky wingnut third party candidate.
Someone like Pat Robertson or Pat Buchanan, who would siphon the wingnut votes
away from the Republican nominee (yes, he could even take votes from McCain)
thereby strengthening the Democratic nominees chance of winning.

[guru_5685]

33. Missing the point

Forget what the republicans are doing for long enough to realize that we have to get organized with a party platform

[NAO]

34. The Radical Clerics of the Religious Reich have declared Fatwa on McCain

Millions of Evangelical Zombies that constitute the Electoral Shock Troops of the Religious Reich are sworn to destroy McCain. Important Radical Clerics such as Falwell and "Dr." James Dobson have said that "McCain is FINISHED".

I think the Repugs will try to run a candidate that will be pleasing to this very powerful, unified, highly organized and extremely mobilized contingent (The Religious Reich).

[mrgorth]

38. Bullshit

I won't support the rw fundies no matter who it benefits. If we can't come up with someone to compete against McCain than it's our own damned fault for being a bunch of spineless jellyfish. If we run Hillary we deserve the loss we're going to get.

[ComerPerro]

39. He will be knocked out, by a RW challenger who is even more loyal to Bush

and is even more willing to vote with the party line...