The Dean - Clark alliance thread...

[mrgorth]

Clarkies, first, I am not saying your man is out of the picture by any measure. I realize his strong states are still to come. That said, it seems to me that the establishment is trying to get one of their own the nomination. Chances are they'll make Edwards the running mate. Run it however you want. These guys both voted for the war. I don't know about you but I took every chance I got to argue against the war before it happened. I had my patriotism questioned. I was told Iraqi oil would pay for everything. I've been arguing against it since. As far as I can tell our guys (besides Al, CMB and DK) have been consistently against the war. What I'm asking is this: first, no more attacking each other or our candidates. Second, when it appears that either of our 2 can't make it, we throw our support behind the other, actively lobbying the campaigns to do the same. I have already begun this. I believe that a Clark/Dean or Dean/Clark ticket would do much better against Bush than any lackluster Kerry one. And I don't know about you but I would much rather see Dean as a veep than shut out altogether.

Peace.

[Uzybone]

1. LOL

n/t

[Jack_Dawson]

2. Not sure we want to be aligned with Dean...

But we do admire the man. And if anything, it would be Clark/Dean.

:-)

[Bombtrack]

6. Speak for yourself

I have nothing but contempt for Dean as a Clark supporter. And Clark doens't need to align with a man like Dean who's campaign has been based on false propaganda that his followers simply regurgitate over and over, as the poster of this thread has once again

[Dark Star]

12. I have nothing but contempt

for Dean as a human being, not just as a Clark supporter.

Just to be clear, however, he is not Bush and so he has my vote should he become our nominee.

[liberalnurse]

15. Okay, so your not getting on the bus I assume.

Bye....you'll be missed.

[mrgorth]

7. Whatever.

[slinkerwink]

37. you need to change "clarkies" to clark supporters or this thread

will get shut down ASAP :-(

[TexasPatriot]

3. the more i see of how the Dem establishment is moving

to build Kerry up through all their varied means... the more I think you're right. We're not going to get any real change in this country without an alliance of outsiders. I think we need to get Dean and Clark on the phone with each other.

[Dark Star]

8. Disagree.

I don't see Dean as an outsider at all.

Maybe Trippi was.

Dean's new hire is a big insider.

Let's leave well enough alone except to say it's ABB in the end.

[TexasPatriot]

19. dont get me wrong

i'm not a big Dean fan... but i want to win in the general. I still dont think a ticket with Dean at the top is terribly viable - but i think the 2 huge grassroots organizations that Clark and Dean represent - and their inherent change to the established way of things in the democratic party - will be utterly wasted if one of us doesnt win. Dean took his shot in new england... Clark is about to take his shot in the west. If neither of us can demostrate that we could win against the system in those places...

I'm still convinced Clark has a very good chance of taking 3 states on the 3rd.. and if he does, we're going to need everyone we can get to remake the party - because the party will NOT go quietly into the night.

Clark's campaign is all about the democratic party being a big tent. I eat that dogfood - and an alliance with the other huge grassroots campaign filled with people pissed about the Iraqi War resolution who want to HOLD OUR PARTY RESPONSIBLE for letting this crap go down on their watch - is a natural fit in my book. Kerry and Edwards voted for the war. Period. In my book they have NO moral authority to oppose Bush on this issue. The democratic party is having a Toynbee challenge and response moment - we can adapt and embrace the change, or we can become more irrelevant than we have already become. We need new leadership to make this change happen.

[janx]

4. I was so impressed by Wes Clark last night at the "debate" !

He didn't let Brokaw misrepresent him and he really showed his knowledge re foreign policy.

My eyes were like saucers when I saw that.

[liberalnurse]

5. I think this is a nice proposal.

I swear I will not be bullied by the DLC....I will not comply. They are equal to the *bush regime in my gut-level feeling.

I'm open to a Clark/Dean affiliation.

[mzmolly]

9. I'd like Dean on a ticket somewhere with someone. He's to valuable to

pass on.

[girl gone mad]

10. Clark is polling better in most of the Feb 3 states..

than Dean. Why don't you start supporting him now?

[NV1962]

11. D*mn right!

The problem is in DC - time to get an outsider to fix it, so two outsiders are a total winner in my book.

[Dark Star]

13. I am hopeful that

Clark is the nominee and that he picks a good VP. To get a real outsider, he could look beyond the nominees.

[Bombtrack]

16. Clark needs to pick Bob Graham. It gives us a better than 50/50 shot at FL

and Arkansas probably

[Justitia]

14. count me in

I'm for an alliance, in whatever capacity.

I am NOT for having the DLC "crowning" anyone and then telling the rest of us - "Well, what are you going to do about it? Where else are you going to go? This election is too important, this isn't the year for you, blah, blah, blah...." I'm sick of the DLC using this tactic with us, then losing, losing, losing election after election.

I'm all for a strategic alliance between Dean & Clark, and I think America would LOVE it.

[liberalnurse]

17. Welcome to the enlighten democrat team.

:grouphug:

[Anwen]

18. The Doctor and the General...

I've always liked the sound of that! :)

[janx]

23. Wouldn't that be GREAT?

It's sounds historic already!

The Doctor and the General

The Physician and the General

The General and the Physician

All kinds of variations. It almost sounds like a book title!

[Anwen]

24. Yes !!!

It has a great ring to it. And that would be such a kick-ass combo...Bush would be shaking like a lily going up against those two!

[bicentennial_baby]

20. I'm down

:toast:

[For PaisAn]

21. I second that

Been thinking the same thing for some time. Haven't and won't attack Dean.

[TacticalPeek]

22. Whatever gets us through the night,

and aWol OUT!

[bain_sidhe]

25. Wow! I just posted the following on another thread

Is this a case of great minds thinking alike? (this thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=230372 )

How do we prevent it from being "over" on 2/3

Do we do a "deal" ala Kucinich/Edwards? Or an unspoken kind of background buzz that in any given state, the guy with the best chance to stop a Kerry sprint to the nomination gets not beat up too bad, or even background support from the other candidates? What? I have to admit that I'm considering doing a "strategic" vote for Dean (YIKES! I can't believe I'm THINKING it, even!) here in Michigan on the 7th, because Clark isn't doing very well here, and Dean has a real shot at beating Kerry here. And Clark doesn't seem to be contesting it very strongly, so maybe in the back of his mind there's some notion that the "keeping Kerry from running the table" idea is more important than one particular state... After all, if Kerry DOES run the table, neither Clark nor Dean will have the TIME to build support (or, in Dean's case, come back). And I have to wonder if that idea plays a role in Dean not contesting the 2/3 states strongly... Clark has a better chance in several of them, let HIM stop Kerry's momentum, because that's the only way he - or anybody - will still be alive on 2/7 in Michigan. Or if it plays a part in both Clark and Dean not being that active in SC (with Edwards "stopping" Kerry idea in that case)...

I'm just thinking out loud here. I'm not asking anybody to do anything, and I'm not promising to do anything... after all, if Clark is doing better in MI by 2/7, I'll certainly cast my vote for him... I'm just wondering how to insure our guys get a *chance* to make their case.

Please don't flame me for saying the words "stop Kerry" - remember, I just want to stop the *momentum*, not stop him from being the nominee. I can live with him being the nominee if I feel he's EARNED it. At this point, I don't.

[lurk_no_more]

26. Desperation isn't becoming

The same man and his supporters that called Clark a Republican, knowing he never was are now asking to forge an alliance? For what purpose? To attack others in deans name?

The same supporters that have posted every negative hit piece google could offer over and over again even though it was refuted over and over again are now asking to forge an alliance? For what purpose? To attack others in deans name?

Thanks but no thanks, if I wanted to align myself with dean, he'd be my candidate of choice, a sure way to get me to lose respect and jump ship on Clark would be for him to put deans name anywhere on the ticket.

If other Clark supporters want to be deans new buddy, oh well, I want no part of it, the man makes my skin crawl....besides, Kerry and Edwards are my second and third choice so if Clark does happen to drop out I will be throwing support to one of them. BTW: look for dean to drop out before Clark IMHO.

If dean supporters really want the negativity to stop, they need to stop it themselves first.

Have a real nice day!


And then there were none!
” JAFO”

[bain_sidhe]

27. You're entitled to your opinion.

In my opinion, most of the Dean supporters "got over" their negativity some time ago, and are fast becoming my favorite people (besides most Clark supporters) here.

YMMV

[Hoppin_Mad]

28. Good thread for pegging the Dean haters in the Clark camp - Thx -nt-

[Bad Thoughts]

29. Grassroots alliance

I have said in other posts that I would have no problem if someone came up with a plan to support grassroots candidates above big money without having to choose between one or another. Any ideas?

[kentuck]

30. Too early for the true believers to accept anything less than victory

After next Tuesday's primaries, this proposal may sound good to both sides? Then the debate should be about who will be at the top of the ticket in a Clark/Dean alliance? I would suggest that the candidate that shows the most promise in the seven states next Tuesday should be at the to of the ticket and the other should drop and give his support to that candidate with the understanding that he will be the VP if that candidate goes on to win. Otherwise, both may be on their way home. But, obviously both now think they will be the one still in the race...

[Ripley]

31. I agree...Doctor/General is a winning ticket.

I know it is "not protocol" for candidates to pick running mates in the primaries, but that might be the only way to stop the Kerry train.

I really, really, really hate to admit this...but, if Dean (my first choice) is really getting into serious trouble, he might consider taking a VP slot with Clark. Of course I'd like him to take that slot with anyone else, but Kerry is such a pompous ass, he'd never take him.

They are a killer team because Dean has the executive experience and Clark has the foreign policy leadership thing down in spades.

How do you make this happen?

[ozone_man]

32. I can go with this choice.

Either Dean/Clark or Clark/Dean. I have my concerns with Clark, but the grass roots nature of his campaign, etc. seems to be a good fit for Dean. It's too early to see who should be the lead, but that will be clearer in the next few weeks.

The Kerry and Edwards insider DLC choice has to be stopped. Is Clark DLC also? I don't know, but my gut feel is that Clark is so much better than Kerry that I can overlook some concerns.

Either ticket will win the GE, no doubt about it, the trick will be to get past Kerry/Edwards and time is of the essence.

[kentuck]

33. Would that be fair?

And would that turn off a lot of Kerry supporters that you might need in the GE ? Or are you assuming they would vote for the ticket, regardless??

[MrSlayer]

34. I like the idea.

Dean has grown on me the past few weeks. I like the way he speaks and his passion. I was all for putting Edwards on the bottom of the Clark ticket until last night's debate. John's pro-war vote and defense of it plus his opposition to gay marriage turned me off. The General and The Doctor sounds pretty good to me right now. One of them has to get out and throw his support to the other though, I don't think either are ready to quit.

[slinkerwink]

35. I'm all for it---I'm surprised at how easy Kerry is being treated

by the press---it just goes to show that he's a part of the establishment, won't threaten the status quo. In fact, Kerry wasn't even getting votes in Iowa so he had to resort to DIRTY tricks (push-polling, robocalls, using outsiders to interfere in the caucus process) in order to win Iowa and also in New Hampshire.

I'll vote for Clark as nominee if Dean doesn't make it.

[slinkerwink]

36. group hugs for everyone!

:grouphug:

[Moderator]

38. Locking.......

5. When discussing any Democratic presidential primary candidate, please refer to that person by their real name; do not use any rude, condescending, or otherwise inappropriate alternate names for any Democratic presidential primary candidate. When discussing a broad group of supporters or opponents of any Democratic presidential primary candidate, do not use any rude, condescending, or otherwise inappropriate alternate names for them. Forbidden nicknames include, but are not limited to, the following: "Deaniacs," "Clarkies," "Kerry Haters," etc.



DU Moderator