Image is reality: let's talk about Mrs. Kerry.

[spotbird]

Please don't flame me for this opinion, but it is worthy of consideration. I've been out and about with lots of Democrats lately and they aren't warming up to her. Aristocratic and overdone are the words that come to mind.

Her commitment to looking her best is an important attribute but she overdoes it a bit and doesn't come across as sincere. The scarves, sweaters over sweaters over blazers etc. make her persona seem contrived, and not all that likable.

Now I'm sure that in person she is the salt of the earth, and I know Pickles is a frump, but Mrs. Kerry will be judged as part of the package. So like it or not so she needs to lighten up. Pickles frumpishness is appealing to the Republicans, Democrats like their first ladies strong, attractive but not arrogant.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

1. You're in a different reality

most people I know love her and she has been a great philanthropist and environmentalist.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

10. I'm not a Kerry supporter but I've met Mrs. Kerry

she is a warm, intelligent, funny individual. I can imagine if DU was around 12 years ago, a lot of folks here would have been criticizing Hillary's hair cut, style, etc.

Who gives a shit? She dresses her age. She looks like a proper Beacon Hill lady.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

12. and I understand she was well recieved in NH

but people will (obviously) try anything to tear down the frontrunner.

[spotbird]

26. Of coarse anything that isn't positive will be seen as tearing down

the front runner, but that is absolutely not my intention. I'll vote Tuesday and likely for Kerry without any consideration to his wife's attire.

But it is very naive to think that Kerry isn't part of a package, and that image doesn't matter. Image and emotion are the reasons many vote as they do, we can wish it weren't true but it is reality.

[Clark Can WIN]

68. Especially when it actually is.......................

trying to tear the front runner down. By using the mans wife no less? Smears on the wife and family are disgraceful, especially in a supposedly progressive forum, including the ones on Laura Bush. It's stooping to the republicans level.

[girl gone mad]

17. Oh my goodness.

For the record, I'm not a Kerry supporter, but I do like Teresa. You can look in my history and see where I've professed my admiration of her long before Kerry became a real contender.

Having said that, you guys are in denial if you don't think the media will go after her. They will.. they already are.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

2. Let's see, you called her insincere and arrogant,

but you don't want to be flamed?

:wtf:

[spotbird]

19. Now I did not say that I see her as insincere and arrogant.

For some reason I haven't been developing much of an opinion on anyone lately. If Kerry gets the nomination I'll love her and defend her, until then I'm just an observer. I'm telling you how she plays in the deep south with poor and working class people.

The reason I didn't want to be flamed about this is that the opinion one I hear, not hold. You should consider all information useful even if you don't accept it as valid.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

25. I know how to read, and so do the rest of us.

:eyes:

[spotbird]

32. Well, you're right ,my original post could be read as my opinion.

maybe I do agree, I just have convinced myself that I don't care about any of the candidates until the decision is made.

The reason I don't post here is because there isn't much opportunity for discussion since every observation is viewed as an attack of some sort. My personal focus has been to work hard at the party level and not to have a horse in the primary race. I don't want disappointment to slow me down so I've chosen to look at the race as ABB.

There isn't anyone that will ever convince me that the image is anything less than very important if not critical to electoral success. That is just reality and that is why I thought it worthy of discussion.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

34. People post a lot of things here at DU, for all sorts of motives.

Sometimes the posts reveal the intent despite the best efforts of the author.

[spotbird]

38. No doubt about it, but my point was to bring up the image thing.

And I did not bring it up skillfully enough to invite discussion and not attack.

Image for any of the candidates should not be the third rail since it is so central to outcome.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

43. I know what your point was -- so does everyone else.

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[auntpattywatty]

3. Then we should definately vote for Gov. Dean :)

[spotbird]

21. This has nothing to do with who anyone should support, but

it is hard to look at a situation objectively from the inside. It is a credible point which does not go to substance but image as I said in the first place.

[Mobius]

4. Any photos?

Why did people whine about Mrs Dean (who even as a Clark upporter, I feel rocks!), no one seems to care that Kerry's Mrs is absent. Im not going to give an opinion on the woman, until I see her and hear her talk.

[Catherine Vincent]

5. Imo, most people won't pay attention to the wives until

after the nominee is selected.

[JI7]

6. teresa is one of the kindest people around

what you say does not describe her at all.

[blm]

7. Noone has EVER called her "overdone"...she wears minimal makeup.

She dresses simply. I think you're grasping at straws.

[bigtree]

8. E! Online - Fashion Police

http://msn.eonline.com/Gossip/Fashion/ :silly:

[Justice]

9. Teresa Is Fabulous

She is the salt of the earth.

For a person who has oodles of cash, she is one of the most down to earth people I have ever heard speak. She spoke at an event last year to a group of maybe 50 of us.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

11. Agree with you totally

I met her at an AIDS benefit last year. She is one classy lady. And very down-to-earth, friendly.

[MaineDem]

13. Isn't this this discussion going on in another thread?

This is basically a dupe.

And totally irrelevant and ludicrous.

[spotbird]

33. I had no idea that this discussion is going on elsewhere.

And the discussion of a candidates wife's perception is neither irrelevant nor ludicrous. Even if what I hear isn't the general view, the topic is still worthy of discussion.

[Maddy McCall]

14. Another SEXIST post...focusing on candidates' wives physical appearance

Many at DU signed a post agreeing NOT to engage in this sexist behavior.

If you want to put Ms. Heinz down, find something she has done that you don't like.

Seriously!! :eyes:

[Kathy in Cambridge]

20. Exactly! This ain't the "E! Channel"

and this kind of shallow, sexist banter has no place in a political forum.

[spotbird]

35. Of coarse it is sexist! Do you think the electorate is enlightened?

Many or most voters vote emotionally, they know shit about issues. It is the packaging they buy, the feeling.

[Clark Can WIN]

69. Many elitists choose to believe that about the electorate

Because the possibility of the unwashed masses not agreeing with their choices based on real issues as opposed to the more comforting notion that they are all a bunch of ignorant rubes is just too appalling to them.

[Timefortruth]

78. Um, this is the same electorate that gave Bush almost half the votes.

That believes that the War is related to 9/11, that thinks France is somehow an enemy, that doesn't have the slightest idea that we are screwing Afganistan....you get the picture.

The voters here are well-informed, but it is not elitist to think the masses are quite ill-informed.

[piece sine]

15. you raise a HUGELY sensitive issue...

Teresa Heinz Kerry is very much her own woman. Even when Sen. John Heinz was alive, Teresa was never a typical Pubbie wifey-poo. Far from it. She's more like Hillary with her finances on steroids. Mrs. Kerry is independent, smart, European in outlook but American in her patriotism and love for her adopted country.

That said, she doesn't not suffer fools gladly, as anyone in Washington D.C. knows. She is the pinnacle of high-society Georgetown salon dowager with a heart of gold. And that could mean trouble down the road as more proletariat Democrats sniff her out and she propensity to always speak her mind could result in some uncomfortable news articles about her as the race wears on.

Teresa is tough... just ask anyone with $800 million and they'll lagree...she's her own person.

[formernaderite]

61. Isn't she from Mozambique?

I personally find her very attractive, but I do wonder if her "foreigness" will put some people off, more so than her obvious upper crust background.

[Clark Can WIN]

70. So that's where the accent is from? I found it charming.

I suspect most others would too.

[kskiska]

62. If Teresa lands in the White House

she'll do wonders for the American image abroad. Washington society is dead with the Bushes. He's his State dinners can be counted on one hand. Foreign leaders and diplomats will prize an invitation to the White House. She'd be a bright conversationalist (in many languages) and experienced hostess. She's no stranger to Washington, having been two senator's wives. Everyone will end up laughing about those "prized" visits to the pig farm in August.

As far as Americans' views of her, they accepted Nancy Reagan. Teresa is head and shoulders above Hollywood Nancy. Laura Bush is more in line with Bess Truman or Mamie Eisenhower.

[dsc]

16. disgusting

First Dr. Dean's wife is too dowdy and now Sen. Kerry's is too into clothes. Will we ever judge women by a reasonable standard?

[KFC]

18. What does sincerity have to do with looking your best?

"Her commitment to looking her best is an important attribute but she overdoes it a bit and doesn't come across as sincere."

What?

[Jerseycoa]

22. Leave the candidates' families alone

:spank:


She's a great woman.

[emulatorloo]

23. Please no wife attacks, please please please

EOM

[spotbird]

45. I'm begging you to listen to what I have to say.

It is image, it is the package, issues are secondary. If a candidate can gain an edge by making adjustments in image, why not do it? It is fool hearty to just say we want to be nice so we won't do every single thing, even trivial things to get the edge.

[Duncan Grant]

24. Oh, spotbird! This is saddening.

Really, I'm shocked. I think you owe the Kerry supporters an apology.

Aristocratic, overdone, and contrived -- oh, those words are so loaded. Are we going to have a class war in our campaign now?

[spotbird]

59. Well, I do apologize for bringing it up, I didn't make my point.

It is stunning to me that the realties of what motivates voters is seen as horribly offensive to so many here.

I'm all but certain to vote for Kerry but it hasn't escaped my notice that he has changed his hair style since his campaign started. I respect him for his acknowledgment that he needed to have a more conservative look to make a broader appeal. He accepted the reality that image matters, why does that fact drive everyone here so nuts?

Hey, in a perfect world Americans would know that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. The public would know that Chimp never keeps his promises, but the publics understanding is shallow. Shallow matters more than substance it is shallow that we need to accommodate.

[masshole]

27. she likes to wear pashimas

So what?
I'm just glad that you and the "lots of democrats you've been out with lately" are not representative of the vast majority of democrats.
We try not to judge people on such trivial terms.

[fujiyama]

28. I myself...

don't really have a problem with her, but she seems to be blunt and does speak her mind.

This can be both good and bad during the campaign. I heard in one interview she mentioned Kerry being in the shower when he recieved the NH results. That's a little too much information if you ask me. I also heard that she was speaking about his surgery in the interview as well as her ex husband. I'm not sure how much this really helps his campaign.

I think over time, her role in the campaign will be more defined. I think democrats are more accepting of women in vocal positions than the general electorate. Graned if that is the case, the nation is way too conservative. From what I've heard she seems like a decent person and a great philanthropist and environmentalist.

[Meshuga]

29. St. Teresa?

That is her actual nickname in Pennsylvania from back when she was the wife of Sen. Heinz. People loved her there because she truly was the real deal. She could have lived the life of a poodle, but she has busted her ass for many, many years to making the world a much better place.

Actually, it is funny that you mention her wardrobe, because I've heard that it drives the campaign crazy that she wears the same outfits all the time (she may have mixed it up a bit more since then).

The reason? That was the clothes she felt most comfortable in, and doesn't believe in a whole lot of ostentation. In fact, I've heard the whole family is pretty decent (on both sides).

[Toucano]

30. I think she looks great.

Smart and sophisticated.

I'm only slightly concerned about her reluctance to become a Democrat to vote for her husband.

We aren't making her president, though, so it doesn't really matter. But still I wonder about the advice a republican wife would give a Democratic president.

[nomaco-10]

31. I have found her to be completely over rated....

I find her to be rather haughty and unapproachable and completely out of her element when interacting with the average folk on the campaign trail. Her constant hair flipping is distracting and the histrionic over done facial expressions have become tedious, burying her head in her husbands chest and acting like she wants to cry for no reason are somewhat unsettling. Also, someone should also tell her the sweater tied around the shoulders and the scarfs are very 80's.

[Quixote1818]

36. She comes across worse than Nancy Reagan

She may be wonderful but she makes a bad first impression.

[SEAburb]

41. I saw her for the first time last week

in a short tv interview. She struck me as aloof and elitist.

[piece sine]

73. it is often stated:

what you see is what you GET.

[XanaDUer]

37. Women can never win

Either they are "dumpy" or not put-together enough, whatever that means.

Or "high-maintenance" or too put together.

Or "arrogant", or too shy.

Screw it, they need to be themselves and Dems needs to stop perpetuating these harmful standards that women are supposed to aspire to. And I will include Mrs. Bush in that as well.

[spotbird]

40. That's true.

But I'm an equal opportunity image freak, and if a candidate has a shot I want them to look as close to the part as is humanly possible. The Republicans seem to have focus groups to coif, direct and reinvent the candidate and the spouse, and it works. It is hard for Democrats to give up the hope that elections should be won on substance and except the reality that substance is the least of it.

[Skidmore]

39. Oh, God's sake, sometimes I think we are our own

worst enemies. What kind of asinine thread is this? I watched this woman several times and the last thing she struck me as was aristocratic. She appears to be well-spoken, intelligent, AND sincere in her beliefs. She has an accent because wasn't born here. She is stylish, but since when is that a crime? People were complaining that Mrs. Dean was sitting at the sidelines observing her husband wearing jeans. This is just utter crap. Sometimes I swear people start these threads just to be divisive.

[spotbird]

44. The point I have failed to make, and should just give up on,

is that image is everything. Facts and substance matter little. There is a reason that the Republican wives fit the part so well, they make it happen. If there is possibly a negative perception which can be flipped to attribute, why not go for it since it is such an easy fix? There are people who spend their lives on what seem like trivial issues such as voter perception because they know it can be a make or break a race.

Shoot if it would help win the election for her to get a tattoo of a rose on her shoulder, then I'd be pushing for a red one. I'm in favor of pragmatism. That it shouldn't be an issue doesn't mean that we should pretend that it isn't an issue.

This stuff matters there are focus groups that can answer the question. If it would give Kerry a half a point then what is the down side? That it is offensive to talk about appearances?

Maybe people do start these threads to be divisive, I'm sure most of them are started for that reason, but I did not start it for that reason. Hear what I have to say.

[RobinA]

65. Republican Wives

fit the part so well? What part? Nancy Reagan, Barbara Bush, Laura Bush? These women are utterly different from each other. Style-wise, they have absolutely NOTHING in common.

[foo_bar]

42. you could be describing Jacqueline Kennedy

I don't think it'll be a problem.

[MaineDem]

48. Bingo! (nt)

.

[IndianaGreen]

46. Teresa Heinz should not even be discussed within the context...

Teresa Heinz should not even be discussed within the context of Campaign 2004, and neither should any of the other candidates' spouses.

They are off-limits as far as I am concerned.

[spotbird]

51. Well, you can take them off the table but the voters won't.

[IndianaGreen]

55. What can you expect from a country obsessed about Paris Hilton?

:puke:

[newsjunkie]

47. Sorry,but I can't stand 'Taraayza' or her husband either

and who the heck pronounces Teresa like that? Blah! So phony and pretensous! They both come across to me as self-serving snobs.

[blm]

53. She's Portugese and raised in Mozambique. You have a problem with

the way they pronounce Teresa on other continents?

[IndianaGreen]

56. Teresa Heinz is not Portuguese, she is American!

The former Maria Teresa Thierstein was born in Mozambique, the daughter of a Portuguese doctor. While attending the University of Geneva, Teresa met H. John Heinz III, heir to the H.J. Heinz food company fortune. Teresa and John were married in 1966. When John decided to go into politics by running for Congress in 1971, Teresa Heinz shunned the role of political wife, choosing instead to focus her energies in being a wife and mother.

In 1991, John Heinz, who was by then a respected and popular US Senator, was killed in a tragic accident when his plane collided with a helicopter.

When many of the political leaders in Pennsylvania urged Teresa to run for John Heinz's seat, she chose instead to take over the Heinz family philanthropies.

When Teresa Heinz took the reins of the Heinz Family Philanthropies, she put all of her passion and devotion into bringing to fruition the ideas and goals of her late husband, John Heinz. "Keeping John Heinz's issues alive," Teresa told Washington Post reporter Mark Leibovich in a 2002 interview, "was a way to keep the senator alive."

In a poignant message on the aftermath of September 11 that was posted on the Heinz Family Philanthropies website, Teresa Heinz spoke about her own sense of mission:

There is a saying in my native Portuguese that translates roughly as, “God writes straight on twisted lines.”

It expresses the hope that human suffering and confusion are not pointless. There is meaning in tragedy and chaos, it suggests; and good may come from even the most brutal acts of evil…. What good, what meaning, could possibly be found here?

There are probably at least as many answers to those questions as there are people to ask them. For The Heinz Endowments, though, at least part of the answer lies in a compelling reminder of why we do what we do.

[blm]

67. heh...so am I.

But I am descended from Slovenian/black Irish.


Something tells me, though, that since her father is Portugese and she grew up in Mozambique, that she would still have an accent and I would still be poking at the poster that tried to mock her. ;) So there!

[MaineDem]

54. Honestly!

Uninformed people.

They pronounce her name that way in Mozambique. She was born and grew up there. She went to university in South Africa where she fought against aparteid.

Please don't slander her like this. It shows how xenophobic people can be.

[Duncan Grant]

57. Oh, my head! (groan)

Please remove foot from mouth. Fine, you don't like them but how is this different than the visceral reaction right-wingers have to Bill and Hillary (no big diff is there?).

[kskiska]

64. Jacqueline Kennedy preferred her name

to be pronounced Zhock-LEEN.

[West Coast Democrat]

49. Democrats tend to like the Sophisticated look

Hillary came off a lot better after a makeover.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

52. I think no matter who the nominee is, these issues will arise whether

fairly or unfairly, and there will be criticisms of all the nominees wives.

I don't see it as an issue that would make or break many votes,however, given the very serious issues before the voters.

I see it more as an opportunity for some DU'ers to demonstrate sexism as is already noted on this thread.

I'm not saying you intended to foster that, but, that's what it does.

I stuck up for Judy Dean, I'll stick up for Theresa.

[cindyw]

58. You deserve to be flamed. Enough said. n/t

[spotbird]

60. OK, let me try this from another direction.

Kerry has changed his hair since this campaign started. He had worn his hair the same way for years so it is safe to assume that he somehow became aware that he would have more appeal if he sported a more conservative look. IMO that shows sound judgment precisely because he shouldn't lose a single vote over his haircut, so he removed it as an issue. It is pragmatism.

[LiberalTexan]

63. yawns and paces during husband's speeches

Granted, robot-like Pickles with her glazed over stare doesn't entrance me either, but at least she doesn't look BORED during her husband's speeches.

Ms. Heinz looks positively bored with being in a shadow.

[Ramsey]

66. This is idiotic

I've made no bones of the fact that Kerry is not high on my list, but his wife's scarves are not on the radar. Sorry, but that is totally irrelevant. She is a smart and attractive lady, and she will kick ass (with her vast fortune I understand) if the Repukes say one word about her! As far as I am concerned, she can be as arrogant as she likes. She'll be the perfect anti-Pickles.

[GalleryGod]

72. Pretty Sad Night, Duers. Shame! Shame! Shame!

All of you...GFY's:mad: :puke: :kick:

[frustrated_lefty]

71. I think you're right, to an extent, spotbird.

Image will be an issue in the general election, although it shoudln't be. I won't criticize any of the candidate's wives, but it is something the eventual nominee needs to be prepared to counter in one way or another. It is the sort of thing which can influence fence sitters, under the surface.

[seaglass]

74. I believe that they actually do polls on the wives as

time goes on. In All's Fair, Carville talked about the polling done on Hillary. If I remember correctly, Hillary was not polling well but Clinton so admired and loved his wife that he thought it was just because of her haircut; he couldn't understand why people didn't feel the way he did about her. I can't remember what, if any, adjustments were made.

If any of the candidate's wives start getting a lot of negatives adjustments will be made.

Personally I like all of the candidate's wives and I think they should be off the table but I realize that for more superficial voters this could be an issue that impacts their vote. I don't think campaigns are unaware of this.

Fortunately any press that I've seen on Theresa has been very positive.

[MGKrebs]

75. Isn't she a Republican?

I think that could be (and should be) an issue.

[MGKrebs]

77. She's a 'Pub.

Does she get to vote for him? If he can't even convince her to vote for him, what will will people think?


"You have three grown sons, one of whom, Christopher, is campaigning for the Senator. Do you think one day Christopher may run for office as well?
He might. I think of my three sons he probably would be the one. "

"As a Democrat or a Republican, like his father, the late Sen. John Heinz?
He would run as a Democrat. He’s sorry, like I am, to see that our party right now is not being run by the kind of Republicans who were like my husband. "

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3987456/

[blondeatlast]

76. Let's don't. I refuse to nitpick any First Ladies, potential or owise.