Clark attracts army of supporters/Dean allies break ranks--Princeton, NJ

[Gloria]

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=10701703&BRD=1091&PAG=461&dept_id=425695&rfi=6

Clark attracts army of supporters
By: Jennifer Potash , Staff Writer 12/23/2003
Some former Dean allies have broken ranks to join with the retired general.

Wesley K. Clark, the retired general now seeking the Democratic nomination for president, has a growing and loyal army of supporters in the Princeton area.
Sprung from an Internet-based petition to "draft" the retired four-star Army general, a Princeton-based chapter draws several dozen members to weekly meetings, said Perry Davis of Montgomery, an
organizer of the local campaign.

(snip)

While former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean has captured attention with a few area fund-raisers and endorsements from state and local elected officials, Gen. Clark has drawn some supporters away from the Dean campaign.
Ms. Richards, who has a 2-year-old son, said President Bush's alienation of longtime European allies in the lead-up to the war in Iraq was enough to compel her to get involved in a political campaign for the first time.
She said she was half-heartedly supporting Dr. Dean's campaign until she started reading about Gen. Clark's accomplishments and position papers on his Web site.
"I decided we needed someone like Gen. Clark who can stand toe to toe with Bush," said Ms. Richards, who is a graduate of Princeton University's Woodrow Wilson School of Public and International Affairs.

(SNIP)

The Clark supporters at the party included all ages and segments of society — an Air Force captain, senior citizens, a former Republican, a graduate student and new parents.

MORE

[Mz Pip]

1. My my my

This can't be true. Dean says his supporters are non-transferable.

MzPip
:dem:

[Bucky]

2. Unfair. Dean has always said that he'd support the eventual nominee

Stop being gratuitously divisive.

[robbedvoter]

4. Always? Let's go to the tape again, shall we?

> Commenting on Wesley Clark's possible candidacy in an
> interview with L.A. Weekly, Dean explained:
> "It's going to be very hard to start late," he says, "and think
> you're going to do well in Iowa and New Hampshire. It's going to be
> incredibly hard. I mean, we've already got 39,000 people working for
> us all around the country ... I really do believe--and I think about
> this--I want to get this nomination, and if I don't ... these kids
> are not transferrable. I can't just go out and say, 'Okay, so I
> didn't win the nomination, so go ahead and vote for the Democrats.'
> They're not going to suddenly just go away. That's not gonna
> happen."
> --
> http://www.laweekly.com/ink/printme.php?eid=46660

[dsc]

7. Please mark where Dean says

words that mean "I won't support the nominee"? Hint the words should mean "I won't support the nominee." And they should be his words and backed up by a link.

[Clark Can WIN]

11. Please explain why that would be necessary

Given that he already stated that his "kids" were non-transferable. It's immpossible to miss the meaning of Deans statement.

"If we can't play my way I'm going to take my football (or skis) and go home."

[CTLawGuy]

14. he is pointing out

that he can't guarantee that ALL of his supporters will support the dem no matter what, some of them may be Greens, libertarians, etc, who don't like any of the other dems. He's saying he can't wrap them in a box and give them to Wesley clark. That's what non-transferable means.

if you think that dean would run as an independent and give Bush another four years, you are wrong. No one who tooks as many political risks in opposing bush as dean did would ever do that.

[Clark Can WIN]

20. These KIDS are non-transferable

That is not the ambiguous statement you would seem to prefer that it is. He did not qualify it as you have with any quantifying term such as some or all.

"these kids are non transferable" any meaning in relation to greens, libertarians, Dems, etc, is pure tea leaf reading and speculation on your part unless you are so intimately involved with Howard Dean as to be a spokesperson for him.

[ibegurpard]

15. Give me a break!

Dean can't guarantee my support or vote to anyone else any more than Clark could yours. That's what he meant and you know it.

[Clark Can WIN]

21. You are right and wrong

Clark cannot guarantee my support for anyone. I am my own and while I admire his judgement and would give it weighty consideration I could never follow blindly.

I do believe that Dean was making a veiled threat in this statemet. I believe it was made out of frustration after having offered Wes the prospect of running mate and being turned down. I believe that Dean is both astute and intelligent enough to have known that Clark would be the most likely obstacle between himself and the nomination.

That you would accept the statement from ANY OTHER Dem candidate that their supporters were "non-transferable" and coat it with this same glaze of refined sugar...........

Give me a break.

[Clark Can WIN]

23. I love the sound of crickets....................

[BootinUp]

28. lol, that was funny

I really think what this all comes down to, is will there be high turnouts for the primaries. If the turnout is in the normal ranges then I see Dean doing very well. If the turnout is high, meaning more voters got interested in the last few months, then I give the General a very good chance.

[HFishbine]

24. Exactly

I don't know why that comment would be seen as dastardly (except by people who still don't get the Dean campaign).

What's clear is that Dean understands that his is not a top-down campaign. He's not giving orders from on high. He understands that people are driving his campaign from the bottom up and because of that, he's not going to be able to order his supporters to do anything if he should fail to secure the nomination. He is simply respecting his supporters as individuals who will think for themselves. I suspect it's the military mind that finds this hard to understand.

[Mz Pip]

5. OK, fair enough

I guess I'm just sort of reponding on a gut level to all the gratuitously divisive posts put out by Dean supporters.

MzPip
:dem:

[shivaji]

18. I will believe it when Dean's lead over Clark drops below 3:1

in every national poll I have seen. Clark polls steady 10 % with no movement in the last 2 months. How come all these people moving to Clark are not showing up in polls?

[oasis]

19. solution :check more polls

[HFishbine]

25. Okay, done checked me some more polls on Clark

Newest to oldest numbers in all polls for past three surveys:

CBS: 10, 10, 9

ABC/Washington Post: 7, 7, 14

Newsweek: 15, 12, 15

CNN/USA Today/Gallup: 12, 10, 17

NBC/Wall Street Journal: 11, 10, 17

Quinnipac: 12, 17, n/a

http://www.pollingreport.com/wh04dem.htm

[robbedvoter]

3. Didn't Clark win a straw poll in Princeton - almost equivalent to an

election? (all voters participated)

[bhunt70]

6. what does this mean?

"'Okay, so I didn't win the nomination, so go ahead and vote for the Democrats."

he speaks as is "Democrats" are a different political animal than he is. Not that I don't think he is, but it was just an odd choice of words.

[Jerseycoa]

12. Tied about a month ago

Clark and Dean.

on edit: Not all voters, just Dems and Independents.

[HFishbine]

26. There was an Oct. 29th poll w/Clark leading in NJ

The latest though has Dean at 22% (up from October's 13%), followed by Liberman at 13% and Clark at 12% (down from October's 17%).

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x9400.xml

[BootinUp]

29. The October numbers for Clark

were very good, he got a big intial boost by the announcement and lots of media coverage. He was attacked immediately by the right wing as well. I am not surprised that things dropped a little from October, and I do not think it is important in the overall scheme. There is still time for the General.

[HFishbine]

31. Jim

I post polls to dispute empty rehtoric that pretends to depend on some emperical observation and to note trends. I do not post polls in an attempt to take the air out of anyone's sails. You are absolutely correct, there is still time.

[WildThang]

16. what is

"almost equivalent to an election"?

NOT "all" voters participating. In 'real' elections, only about 40% voters participate.
http://elections.gmu.edu/Voter_Turnout_2002.htm

[TacticalPeek]

8. Music to my ears, an increasingly common occurrence with Clark's campaign.

"Dwight Chambers, a captain in the Air Force who served in Operation Desert Storm in Iraq, said President Bush is taking the wrong direction in Iraq.
Chief among Clark supporters' concerns is the Bush administration's foreign policy and the Iraq conflict.
While members of the armed forced may tend to vote Republican, Gen. 'Clark may capture some of those votes', Mr. Chambers said."

:)

[Myra]

9. Good group in Princeton. Krugman tought them well.

It can't be a coincidence!

:)

[Democrats unite]

10. I believe we are seeing a new come back kid.

eom

[Scoopie]

13. Hee hee... I VANT ZOGBY

To poll my state!
So I can prove him wrong! And I'll have proof!!
I love these polls... and all I do is ask who people are for.
I'm "hamstering" away some great stuff.
Come on Zogby - poll Tennessee. If you come up with the crap you've been coming up with... LMAO... I'll best ya!
I just think polls are really funky before Christmas. They just are.
Thanks for this. It's brightened by day. :)
WES WILL WIN!

[Myra]

17. Not sure he's been in the race long enough to have a comeback

But he's doing damn well for a newby.

[drfemoe]

22. so that means that

when June 8, 2004 rolls around, all those Clark supporters in NJ will get a chance to go to the polls.
If he's still in the race.

[mdmc]

27. Imagine

Kucinich saying that he could flip all his support to the dems. Its bullshit. Dean, Clark, and Kucinich each add something to the democratic party that the party did not have before. We have the non Bush, the Bush lite (might not be the real thing, but its close enough to pretend), and the war vet who just joined the party to run for office. Each of these camps will split if they don't get the endorsement. Some will vote dem, some green/other, some gop, some not at all. This is not a threat.

[Gman]

30. But don't mention that someone might not work for Dean in November

because they don't support Dean now, and you're a Bush supporter according to the Dean supporters.

The BIGGEST reason I DO NOT support Dean is because of the people that support Dean.

[TexasSissy]

32. Good news.

It's remarkable how much support there is for Clark out there in never never land, considering he gets almost no media coverage. Imagine what his support will be once he starts getting covered more because others drop out?


(Wes is Best!)

[Auntie Bush]

33. When the others drop out

Most of their votes will go to Clark and so will the undecides.Tha would put Clark ahead of Dean without a fight.

[Auntie Bush]

34. reply to self

Next time...check before posting!

[mouse7]

35. This is more tha a week old thread.

Ooopsie. This isn't good news for Clark. Clark supporters are recycling old stories hoping nobody will notice.

[MarkTwain]

36. Oh, Pleeeeeze.....

.... before your make such an egregious charge did you happen to note two things:

1. that there were three major holidays in the interim which find many people just returning and reading back pages today?

2. that the rest of the board is behaving in the same manner... I'm seeing threads from TWO weeks ago resurface in LBN and - EVEN, by Gosh! - GD this morning.

You owe the Clark supporters an apology.

[quinnox]

37. Looks like this graphic is becoming more true everyday