I could warm up to John Kerry

[jmaier]

I like the courage of the young John Kerry: in Vietnam, as a war protestor, as a strong prosecutor, and as a fighting liberal Senator early in his career. His record during these years is admirable.

I also like the fight and spirit that he has been demonstrating lately on the campaign trail -- it bodes well for a campaign against Bush.

My concern lies in the later half of his Senate career and especially during his tenure since 2000. It appears to me that he simply became a consummate insider and watered-down version of his younger self. His votes for IWR, Patriot Act and the Bush tax cut are simply indefensible. If they were made out of courage of conviction, like in Lieberman's case, that would be one thing, even if I disagree with those positions.

But frankly, they have the smell of political expediency and they will put him on the defensive in a GE campaign when attacking Bush.

So who is the real John Kerry: the courageous young man, the current fighting campaigner or the invisible collaborator with the Bush agenda?


on edit: I've followed links and done more digging and it appears that John Kerry didn't not end up voting for the Bush Tax Plan. My apologies. I won't edit it out of the original post because I don't want to make some of the comments in this thread to seem de-contexted.

[Democrats unite]

1. It's a secret...

You know Bush, Kerry, the skull & bones thing.

[girl gone mad]

2. Kerry repottedly said

He would appoint James Baker to be special envoy to the Middle East.

That doesn't speak well of Kerry to me.

[lancdem]

3. Do you have a link for that?

[Justice]

9. Here Is One Link - December 4, 2003

http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/12546.htm


"Presidential hopeful Sen. John Kerry set off a firestorm among Jewish leaders yesterday by saying Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton or former Secretary of State James Baker could be used as a special envoy to the Middle East in the Massachusetts senator's administration."

There were lots of articles about it, this was just the fastest link.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

11. He said it. It was a "suggestion"

nsma down below characterizes it accurately.

[gWbush is Mabus]

4. that is the guy that gave the presidency to Bush

we NEED Dean

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

8. I think it was a brilliant tactical move to appear less partisan

Shortly thereafter Bush sent him. Baker may be an asshole but he has connections in the Mid East...we have troops being killed there and need their cooperation

[Feanorcurufinwe]

13. Yeah, anyone who really thinks

that Kerry would appoint Baker simply doesn't know enough about John Kerry.

[Justice]

15. Completely Wrong - Way Way Off Base- Apples and Oranges

Kerry suggested Baker for envoy to the Middle East -- the Jewish community was up in arms over it.

Baker was actually sent as arm twister to get countries to slice/forgive their loans to Iraq. Baker was sent to many of these countries - which are Arab or Muslim countries - as Baker represents Saudi Arabia -- he has cozy relationships with them, so Bush thought the arm twisting might work.


See why Jewish people don't want Baker as the envoy for Middle East peace?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

5. Three points

The tax cut was after considerable jockeying including the refunds to the middle class (which was authored by Dems not Repubs) and A package was going to pass.

The Patriot act was DAYS following 9/11 and hysteria created by the media that our current laws were to blame. Christ...even Barbara Boxer voted for it.

The IWR vote was after Biden/Lugar was derailed by Lieberman, Gep and Bayh...his choices were narrowed and he made the wrong one.

[in_cog_ni_to]

6. If they told you, they'd have to kill you.

:evilgrin:

[zulchzulu]

7. Kerry didn't vote for Bush's tax cuts

We've all talked about the IWR. Kerry voted for the UN to do its job, not for Bush to unilaterally strike.

The Patriot Act vote was during the 911 paranoia phase and nearly all of it is sunsetting on January 1, 2005.

As for assuming that Kerry voted for Bush's tax cuts, he voted against them:

Voted NO on $350 billion in tax breaks over 11 years.
H.R. 2 Conference Report; Jobs and Growth Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2003. Vote to adopt the conference report on the bill that would make available $350 billion in tax breaks over 11 years. It would provide $20 billion in state aid that consists of $10 billion for Medicaid and $10 billion to be used at states' judgment. The agreement contains a new top tax rate of 15 percent on capital gains and dividends through 2007 (5 percent for lower-income taxpayers in 2007 and no tax in 2008). Income tax cuts enacted in 2001 and planned to take effect in 2006 would be accelerated. The child tax credit would be raised to $1,000 through 2004. The standard deduction for married couples would be double that for a single filer through 2004. Tax breaks for businesses would include expanding the deduction that small businesses could take on investments to $100,000 through 2005.
Bill HR.2 ; vote number 2003-196 on May 23, 2003

Voted NO on cutting taxes by $1.35 trillion over 11 years.
Vote to pass a bill that would reduce all income tax rates and make other tax cuts totaling $1.35 trillion over 11 years. The bill would increase the standard deduction for married couples subject to the 15% bracket to double that of singles by 2005
Bill HR 1836 ; vote number 2001-165 on May 23, 2001


http://www.issues2000.org/2004/John_Kerry_Tax_Reform.htm

If you're referring to another tax cut, tell me which one it is.

[quinnox]

12. This is the same type of myth

that some say Kerry voted for Ashcroft. Nope.

Kerry voted against Ashcroft, and against the tax cuts.

[Justice]

17. No, We Haven't Talked About IWR

"We've all talked about the IWR. Kerry voted for the UN to do its job, not for Bush to unilaterally strike."

I posted this on another thread, but it is also relevant here:

You can't isolate the actual vote on IWR from all of the facts and circumstances behind it. Did Kerry vote not for war, but rather as your post suggests, for the UN to do its job and if needed, have a multinational force disarm Iraq and as a last resort?

Let's look at the circumstances -- who among us believed for one second that Bush would do the right thing? Your post suggests that voting for IWR was okay, that things only turned out badly because Bush lied about the intelligence and basically did the opposite of what the IWR was intended.

I knew Bush would lie and go to war at the time the IWR was being proposed. Who among us believed Bush wouldn't go to war once he had the IWR?

On what grounds did John Kerry believe Bush would be trustworthy? Was Kerry was naive to believe that Bush would act like a commander in chief was supposed to act? IMO, it is simply silly to say vote on IWR was okay, it was that Bush behaved badly.

Kerry needs to take responsiblity for his actions on IWR. He has done lots of good things, but he royally screwed up with this one. To deny it is to lie to oneself.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

10. It is simply false to say that Kerry voted for the Bush tax cut.

If you want to attack Kerry under the guise of saying you 'could warm up to' him, please stick to the facts.

[sandnsea]

14. The guy who does the right thing

Who fought for middle class tax cuts, but didn't vote for any of the Bush tax cut packages.

Who voted for the Patriot Act because it contained a variety of counter-terrorism legislation that he'd been trying to get passed for years. Stuff that might have prevented 9/11. Voted for it along with 98 other Senators and who NOBODY ELSE WILL REPEAL ANYWAY.

Voted for IWR for the same damn reason, his statements going back to 1997 that were posted here YESTERDAY ought to be proof of that. Make Saddam adhere to the disarmament agreement, which doesn't mean going off to war before you've allowed the process to work.

He does what's right, he doesn't quit, he's done the right thing almost every step of the way his entire life. I don't possibly know what else he's got to prove.

[jmaier]

18. If I erred on the tax

cut issue, I sincerely apologize. It looks to me as if he voted with the final bill that included those tax cuts advocated by the Dems as well as those kept intact by the Republicans. I'll heartily admit to being wrong -- if I was. I'm doing some more research now.

On the IWR, I completely disagree. John Kerry is no dummy. For 12 months preceding the actual invasion we were sending massive troop and logistical deployments to the middle east. You don't spend that kind of money to "threaten". This is a PNAC administration and the adherents of the anti-Iraq strategy occupied powerful positions within it. To many, many Americans what was going to happen was pretty obvious. Wes Clark has said that the on the street scuttlebutt in Washington was that administration was going to war. There is no other reasonable explanation. I think the bottom line is that John Kerry didn't want to be 'Max Clelandized' so he voted for the IWR under the pretext of giving the President firm backing to go to the U.N. -- John Kerry isn't a naif, he did know or should have known what would transpire.

On a final note, I'm not attempting to attack John Kerry but get more comfortable with the notion of him as our nominee -- I think that it's legitimate to try and determine if the fighting John Kerry is back! It would make quite a bit of difference, frankly.

I'm not noted here at DU as a smear thread artist, so while I might have misstated unintentionally, I'm not trying to be negative, but I do have some concerns.

[blm]

16. How about the guy who started outlining his plan of attack in 2000

when the Supremes gave the presidency to Bush?

I'd say he's positioned himself to beat Bush in 2004.

btw...he didn't vote for Bush's taxcuts in 2001 or 2003. The Patriot Act was voted on 99-1 after sunsetting certain provisions was negotiated.

Would you attack Wellstone, Kennedy, Durbin, Byrd, et al for their votes for Patriot Act?

Can you name ONE other lawmaker alive who exposed more government corruption than John Kerry?

That's hardly busines as usual.

[jmaier]

20. Actually, I did castigate Durbin

about this vote. He's my Senator.

I'm not against anyone for a wrong-headed vote as long as they have the courage to stand up and say 1) I voted for it and I think it's still a good idea or 2) I made a mistake and here's what I'd do to fix it.

It's the uncourageous middle-ground that bothers me.

[robbedvoter]

19. Kerry getting special interests donations (unfairly smeared Clark on that)

Senator among top recipients in Congress from special interests
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/politics/20040130-9999_1n30kerry.html
By Dana Wilkie and Joe Cantlupe
COPLEY NEWS SERVICE
January 30, 2004
WASHINGTON - In his quest for the White House, Sen. John Kerry says he is committed to sweeping out the "special interests" he contends are trying to manipulate federal laws and policies.
But the Massachusetts lawmaker and Democratic presidential front-runner is among Congress' top recipients of money from some of those special interests - drug companies, HMOs, lawyers, investment firms, real estate interests and contractors, among others."more

Kerry trying to prop W by blaming CIA for the WMD debacle

http://robbedvoter.forclark.com/story/2004/1/30/9319/54910
Kerry folding like a cheap umbrella:

Attack
Quote: "What we need now is not just a regime change in Saddam Hussein and Iraq, but we need a regime change in the United States" (Boston Globe, April 3, 2003)
rebuff
Charge: Then-GOP Chairman Marc Racicot said Kerry "crossed a grave line when he dared to suggest the replacement of America's commander in chief at a time when America is at war." Racicot said Kerry's remark was "designed to further Sen. Kerry's political ambitions at a time when the lives of America's sons and daughters are at stake." John Podhoretz of the New York Post accused Kerry of drawing an "implicit parallel ... between Saddam Hussein and George W. Bush.
multiple foldings
Kerry issued four responses to his critics: 1) "It is possible that the word 'regime change' is too harsh. Perhaps it is." 2) It was just a "quip." 3) "That's what a presidential race is about. It's about changing the administration." 4) "I'm not going to let the likes of Tom DeLay question my patriotism, which I fought for and bled for in order to have the right to speak out."
http://slate.msn.com/id/2089125/
(that was his last chance of getting me aboard, BTW - I remember it vividly)

[absyntheNsugar]

21. The only thing that would warm me to Kerry

would be if he could bring in the Vietnam Vets...the ones who usually vote Republican - the baby boomers who were split after Vietnam.

Not saying I wouldn't vote for him in November - I'm 100% ABB.

But I wouldn't be warmed to him

[robbedvoter]

22. Besides, he asked me not to vote for him:

Kerry Said "If You Don't Believe In The U.N. ... Or You Don't Believe Saddam Hussein Is A Threat With Nuclear Weapons, Then You Shouldn't Vote For Me." (Ronald Brownstein, "On Iraq, Kerry Appears Either Torn Or Shrewd," Los Angeles Times, 1/31/03)