Kerry's views complicated, contradictory

[NashVegas]

COLUMBIA, S.C. - Ask Sen. John Kerry about his vote authorizing war in Iraq and he'll say he "voted for a process" that had war as a last resort. He'll insist he can win Southern states against President Bush, but has said "everybody always makes a mistake in looking South." He says he favors trade, but argues that trade deals need to be re-examined.

John Forbes Kerry, the front-runner for the Democratic presidential nomination, is a man of nuance.

Kerry's sometimes elliptical and intricate policy stances don't always lend themselves to a political world of sound bites and tight slogans. On occasion, his extended explanations have sapped the energy from his campaign events.

Some Democrats wish he'd simplify his message so he's ready to confront Bush and the president's plain, uncomplicated style.

http://www.bradenton.com/mld/bradenton/7837934.htm

[Cha]

1. Ooops!

"Ask Sen. John Kerry about his vote authorizing war in Iraq and he'll say he "voted for a process" that had war as a last resort."

[blm]

2. wow...same as Biden-Lugar that Dean supported.

Who knew? Too bad Bush didn't implement IWR properly.

[goobergunch]

3. The resolution authorized force according to Bush's determination

So I guess Bush* did implement it properly - it authorized force and he used force.

[ibegurpard]

12. Not the same as Biden-Lugar

See what the ACLU had to say about Biden-Lugar:
"ACLU Applauds Constitutional Checks in New Iraq Compromise"

<snip>

Specifically, the Biden-Lugar compromise:


Clearly identifies the enemy. The proposed resolution closes the door to regional adventures in the Middle East. Under the proposed compromise, the President would have to seek additional Congressional authorization if he wished to widen the conflict in the region.

Spells out clear military objectives. Congress would hold a tight leash on the current conflict. This would be in marked contrast to its role in the Vietnam War, which was lost in part because of nebulous war aims. The Biden-Lugar compromise realizes the folly of sending troops into harm's way without delineating the specific military objectives to be accomplished.

Reaffirms the American conviction that war-making power should lie with the people. In contrast with the Gulf of Tonkin resolution, the Biden-Lugar compromise would respect the ongoing prerogatives of Congress during military engagement. The Constitution demands that American military decisions involving the use of force rest only with the people's representatives in Congress.
<more>

http://archive.aclu.org/news/2002/n100202a.html

[THUNDER HANDS]

21. check out this little nugget in that ammendment

Congress would hold a tight leash on the current conflict.

Oh yeah, Tom Delay and Howard Dean, standing side by side keeping a leash on Bush.

:eyes:

You guys DO realize that the GOP was going to get this war no matter what, right?

[Eloriel]

22. And how, exactly, does that

excuse Kerry's vote? his UNCONSTITUTIONAL vote -- for an illegal, immoral, unjustified, unjustifiable war of aggression against a sovereign nation that was no thread to anybody, in pursuit of empire?

Edit: I'll say more. There came a point where even *I* knew that there was no way of stopping the war -- but I worked my tail off anyway trying to stop it right up until it was a done deal.

In the meantime, Kerry didn't have a single word to SAY about things between his war vote and the war itself about how "wrong" the process he belatedly wants to criticize (thanks to Howard Dean) was going.

In my view, he's nothing but another totally unprincipled politician who would sell out America's children and innocent brown people for his own personal political gain. Period. I'd really rather he be corrupt in the usual sense, where only dollars and favors change hands.

[THUNDER HANDS]

24. are you sure that's how you really feel

I could have sworn you were a HUGE Kerry fan here. :)

[sleipnir]

4. Proves Kerry is Pro-War, Pro-Death, Pro-PNAC

NO reasonable person would have voted for that bill unless they were afraid of their political butt, or worse, they were in all the whole scam....let's hope Kerry doesn't turn out to be a shadow PNAC member (but it wouldn't shock me)

[girl gone mad]

7. Clark made a good point..

in the debte last night. He said everyone in Washington knew the course of action Bush was planning on taking when that resolution was passed, so to later say they were thinking Bush would be responsible is questionable.

Clark and Kucinich are the only ones up there who spoke out against the war in an effective way. I do admire Dean, though, for making it an issue.

[sandnsea]

10. Clark recommended that course of action

I'd like to offer the following observations by way of how we could proceed. First of all, I do believe that the United States diplomacy in the United Nations will be strengthened if the Congress can adopt a resolution expressing U.S. determination to act if the United Nations can not act. The use of force must remain a U.S. option under active consideration.

Such congressional resolution need not, at this point, authorize the use of force. The more focused the resolution on Iraq, the more focused it is on the problems of weapons of mass destruction. The greater its utility in the United Nations, the more nearly unanimous the resolution, the greater its utility is, the greater its impact is on the diplomatic efforts under way.

The president and his national security team have got to deploy imagination, leverage, and patience in working through the United Nations. In the near term, time is on our side and we should endeavor to use the United Nations if at all possible. This may require a period of time for inspections or the development of a more intrusive inspection regime such as Richard Perle has mentioned, if necessary backed by force. It may involve cracking down on the eroding sanctions regime and countries like Syria who are helping Iraq illegally export oil enabling Saddam Hussein to divert resources to his own purposes.

http://www.iraqwatch.org/government/us/hearingspreparedstatements/hasc-092602.htm

[Toucano]

18. Wha?

"Such congressional resolution need not, at this point, authorize the use of force."

"The president and his national security team have got to deploy imagination, leverage, and patience in working through the United Nations."

How did Clark recommend that course of action?

[polpilot]

13. Kerry: The DLC establishment pro-war candidate. Go to the DLC site

to view Kerry's support.

Dean '04...

[krkaufman]

5. I'm not a Kerry fan

I'm not a Kerry fan, but this is definitely a negative article; with an apparent bias. Why else would the author emphasize his middle name: "Forbes."

Not sure about his credentials, but keep your eyes out for further smears from:

By JAMES KUHNHENN
Knight Ridder Newspapers

I'd say the Right has begun the assault.

[krkaufman]

8. More attacks on Kerry...

Prof. James Thurber (American Univ School of Public Affairs) quote Re: Sen. Kerry, from this evening's ABCNews:

He's known as a person who really hasn't done much in the Senate. He's not a leader of any legislative area, in my opinion.

Caveats: Not sure what Thurber's political bias might be; the segment also included an Ed Gillespie quote.

[Cocoa]

16. did you see how Jennings punctuated that report?

the report ended, it came back to Jennings, who said "of course that's John F. Kerry, f for Forbes." Then cut to commercials.

Kerry's middle name had absolutely nothing to do with that report.

ABC has been atrocious in this campaign. Koppel, Jennings, Brian Ross, all of them suck.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

6. This is a criticism I actually agree with but don't know how to handle

As one who has worked on policy over the years with my state legislature, positions one takes CAN SEEM contradictory on their face unless one is ferreting out all the fine details of the policy.

I, too, favor trade. Without trade, we are dooming the rest of the world to live as second class citizens while we use up their resources.

Fair trade is a big issue versus unfettered FREE trade. Kerry and Dean are not very far apart on their interpretations of that issue and it is one where I find Dean far more palletable than say, the protectionist rhetoric of Gephardt or the rather careless assessment of Clark.


It is a shame but this tripped Gore up as well since policy is more complex than sound bites and we have groomed the electorate to appreciate the simple one liner.

[sandnsea]

9. Voters figured it out

All kinds of voters across all kinds of demographics in both Iowa and NH. This was exactly the line they ran on him all last year. Maybe Americans are smarter than the media gives them credit for.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

11. They know where Kerry's heart is

it's instinct.

[polpilot]

17. In the pro-war camp?? in the DLC camp? in the Patriot Act camp?

Dean '04...

[killbotfactory]

19. Those were all good things, until they went bad

Kerry only supports things that are good, until they turn bad. Then his vision becomes 20/20 about what awful crap he supported.

[Eloriel]

23. And he still can't find it in his heart to apologize for his errors n/t

[molly]

14. Is "uncomplicated" and "simplistic" words we want

describing a extremely intelligent man? This statement is absolutely stupid and ridiculous....

"Some Democrats wish he'd simplify his message so he's ready to confront Bush and the president's plain, uncomplicated style."

[Toucano]

20. You're right.

It isn't possible to talk about complicated issues in simplistic terms. We can leave that to the shrub who talks about everything in "simplistic" terms.

[killbotfactory]

15. It's called waffling

Politicians do it all the time.