Any DUer who is not for ABB should be banned from DU...

[TruthIsAll]

The 33% who said they would not vote for Kerry in the DU poll are either Bush/Rove trolls, or just plain stupid.

You would rather have Bush remain in the office he stole by refusing to support the nominee if he's not your guy?

Are you saying that you would be willing to sacrifice the lives of your children who would fight in Bush's future wars, rather than vote for Kerry?

Are you saying that you would be willing to let BushCo complete its fascist takeover of your democracy?

Are you saying that you are willing to let let Bush finish the job of destroying the social programs which the democratic party has fought for since FDR?

Talk about cutting off your nose...

[corporatewhore]

1. I live in texasno way kerry could win And please enough of those lame

ass excuses for weak dems losing!!!!!

[Joseph Thule]

9. Texas? NO Democrat will win Texas. I don't think a Democrat has won TX

in 25 years.

[corporatewhore]

13. my thoughts exactly and yet people call me a bush supporter when i say

i will vote green if my guy doesnt get it

[Joseph Thule]

17. I have no problem there. Your vote is pretty much "pointless"

electorally speaking.

It's the tools voting Green in the battleground states that I can't stand.

[adamrsilva]

50. Me too. No point in voting for Kerry

No way Bush isn't winning it.

[polpilot]

55. Banning doesn't seem very 'democratic'

Dean '04...

[codegreen]

2. banning seems extreme, but i concur with the sentiment

this is the Democratic Underground. not the "i'm going Green if it isn't Dean" underground. this is the battle of our lives. our country, our whole country may be over if Bush gets re-elected.

if you're not down with ABB, then you're totally out of your mind.

[krkaufman]

42. There's a difference....

There's a difference between DemocraticUnderground.com and DemocraticPartyUnderground.com. This notion of banning non-ABBers reeks of the same Rove/Bush "with us or against us" bullshit that we're supposed to be fighting against.

Grow up.

[TruthIsAll]

68. You are effectively fighting FOR Rove/Bush if you are not ABB

I thought we learned this in 2000 when Nader's votes caused Gore to lose FL and NH.

What the hell is the point of sitting it out if the Dem is not your first choice?

You are playing right into the hands of Rove.

[seaglass]

3. This is going to be extremely rude, but I agree n/t.

[NV1962]

4. Wish I had voted

"no" just to be able to alert this topic and possibly getting you banned.

Seriously - are you really trying to suggest that people clicking on a link are doing anything more than venting an emotion, such as really, seriously committing to a vote?

If so, I think it's time for you to log off and breathe some fresh air for a little bit.

"Voting intention" polls on this board aren't that much representative beyond reflecting the mood of the moment, really.

[blm]

5. Amen.

.

[oxymoron]

6. just plain stupid is right.

I have been amazed at the idiocy of some of these posts. If you're not ABB, and don't vote for the nominee, then you're not a Democrat and I can't be bothered. There are too many things that need to be done to get * out of the White House and take back our government.

[ibegurpard]

7. Excuse me a moment

How do you know that some of the people who voted the way they did in that poll aren't just trying to let a little air out of the swelled and arrogant heads of some of the Kerry supporters here? As for requiring ABB, there isn't a loyalty oath like that at this time in order to be a member of this board ... once the primaries have decided the nominee then you will have your wish.

[TruthIsAll]

24. No loyalty oath. Just common sense. We can agree to disagree.

But as far as Bush is concerned, we must draw the line.

We need every damn vote to get the Dem landslide we will need to defeat Diebold.

[ibegurpard]

35. I have stated on this board there's no way I'll vote for John Kerry.

It's very likely I could change my mind even though I'll never change my mind that I think he's a skunk and that the Democratic Party will continue it's slow death with someone like him in charge. I've changed my mind in the voting booth on issues I was sure about and then rethought. So, when you see a poll like that or statements like the ones I've made keep that in mind.

[joshcryer]

8. Anyone who calls themselves ABB, but says a candidates name...

...needs to be banned from DU for inciting flamewars.

ABB is AGNOSTIC and thus any candidate name mentioned with ABB means that you're implying that said candidate is the only one capable (thus invaliding the whole ABB concept).

I voted NO in the Kerry/Bush poll because it follows this stupid line of thinking that one candidate is the only possible nominee choice. No ifs/ands/or buts.

[snoochie]

10. THANK YOU

gah

[seaglass]

14. I'd agree with your point if this sentiment hadn't been

expressed in numerous non-poll threads.

[joshcryer]

26. Everyone is guilty of it.

A whole lot of people go ABB and then state their candidate! They USE the ABB idea to suggest that THEIR candidate is THE ONE that is "Anybody" but Bush.

Hell, in the Dykes for Dean thread someone had the gall to imply that any presidential candidate that supports lesbians/gays isn't electible and people who vote for Dean weren't ABB! THINK ABOUT THAT.

HOLY #$)(*. This is making my blood pressure go up so badly.

[seaglass]

34. I always took ABB to mean that I'm for Candidate X

but if he doesn't win I will vote for whoever the nominee is.

Anybody means anybody (with the exception of Larouche)

[joshcryer]

39. Sure, that's fine, but people use ABB to uphold their candidate.

Thet go "my candidate is the only one who's electable, and if you don't vote for him, you're not ABB!"

Guess what? We have a primary process. We can vote for whoever the fuck we want without it conflicting with ABB. ABB is a national election issue and SHOULD NOT EVEN BE BROUGHT UP until election time!

[snoochie]

47. You're right, of course

Everyone is so scared.

I need a hug. :(

[joshcryer]

60. ::HUG::

:)

[southerngirlwriter]

51. that's EXACTLY what I mean

I am for Edwards, but will vote ABB.

All of the posters in this thread who say that statements like mine are a thinly veiled statement that "only MY candidate can beat Bush..." well, there you go again, telling other people what their "real" thoughts, feelings, and motives are.

The behavior of a certain candidate's supporters disgusts me enough to make me CONSIDER staying home in November if he's the nominee, but I know I could never do it. Voting is a precious right. I'll exercise it, holding my nose if I have to.

[joshcryer]

Obviously there are geniune ABBers

I wasn't intending to put everyone who was ABB into a corner, just those who use ABB to support some ideology so... inconsistent with ABB.

[southerngirlwriter]

65. I fail to see how anyone could be anything BUT

ABB.....but of course, we all have preferences. I have a preference for Edwards. That means that I talk him up among friends and am on his e-mail list and will send him money if I ever get any. That does not mean that I will do guerilla warfare on internet boards, accusing other people of malevolence if they don't like him and generally making an ass of myself. I hope Edwards gets it. If he doesn't, oh well, I'll vote for whoever has D by their name. If that's Lieberman as President and my cat as VP, okay, that's who'll I'll vote for. My cat WOULD be a better President than * -- of that, I have no doubt.

I don't comprehend the thinking behind people who love their candidate so much that they won't vote for the Dem, regardless of who it is. I mean, have any of our guys donated a kidney to one of the posters here, or paid off their mortgage, or taken a bullet for them? I doubt it. They're all good men, and although my personal opinions about their intelligence, experience, positions, etc., varies from the utmost respect to a gruding tolerance, ANY OF THEM WOULD BE BETTER THAN *!!! HENCE, I AM FOR ABB!!!

Is this really so difficult to understand??

Sigh. I need a hug, too. I'm getting a migraine.

[joshcryer]

69. ::hug:: =)

I don't mean to come down on you, I really don't. Please read my ABB thread about ABB before the primaries... you'll see what I'm saying, I hope...

I have seen all sorts of arguments using ABB to bash people, though, and I don't think it's right before the primaries are over and we actually have a candidate... :(

[mitchtv]

11. you can say that again

ther is something real annoying about that attitude. One doubts the sincerity of their intentions.

[DoctorBombay]

12. I actually brought this up in a PM to someone..

..I would agree, but only after the nomination is sewn up. Once it becomes Bush vs. Whomever, and you aren't supporting the Dem, you ought not to be here.

[ibegurpard]

22. That's going to happen

Once the nominee is decided, the admins have stated that they will not allow attacks against him.

[DoctorBombay]

31. Good to know, thanks

Didn't catch that before..

[Darranar]

15. I am strongly ABB...

but there is no reason for censorship.

Ideas should always be debated.

[seaglass]

23. And there is a point to debating someone who starts a thread

that proclaims if Dean isn't the nominee he's voting for Bush?

[On the Road]

59. Please Note That in 1972,

Hunter Thompson had such contempt for Hubert Humphrey that he said that if HHH were nominated, he would vote for Richard Nixon. It was the most shocking thing the good doctor ever wrote, from my point of view.

By those rules, HT would be banned from DU.

[NoPasaran]

72. HST got a lot nastier

about Humphrey than that I think.

[Sean Reynolds]

16. Fuck that!

Last I checked this wasn't a forum JUST for Democrats, but for anyone that has the liberal ideology.

I don't believe in the term, the lesser of two evils. That was how we ended up with Bush in the first place. I will work my heart out to help a candidate win in the general election; whether or not he has a (D) by his name has yet to be seen.

[Joseph Thule]

20. "Democratic" Underground.

Not "Liberal" Underground.

[Sean Reynolds]

27. "Democratic" means DEMOCRACY - as in a Democratic government!

[PVnRT]

62. Little d democratic

Read the rules. You know, where it says lefties of all stripes.

[CheshireCat]

18. I worry about this happening!

#1 issue is DEFEAT BUSH!!

I do not understand any Democratic or leftwinger who would withhold their vote because their candidate is not the nominee - not when the alternative Georgie Boy runing the show for another 4 years!.

Hey, I used to be an idealistic voter, so who am I to talk!

Banning is goingtoo far!

[ermoore]

19. Actually . . .

How would it be so great to elect someone basically indistinguishable from Bush? Then in four years we're just stuck with either him or whatever right-winger the republes nominate. Better in 2004 to have a real chance at electing someone who will bring real change to the WH.

[Redneck Socialist]

21. Wow...

some of you Kerry folk are touchy. I'll vote for Kerry if he ends up being the nominee, but I won't be very enthused by doing so.

There are quite a few people here who are looking beyond bush and they see that the Democratic Party is desperately in need of reform. Kerry won't do that. That is why some are not so eager to rally to his flag.

Let's just see how the primaries play out. There will be plenty of time later on to get our panties in bunch, cast recriminations and play I told you so.

[oxymoron]

30. I am not a Kerry person.

And yeah, I'm touchy on this subject. There is far too much at stake. And any of the Democratic candidates are FAR better than the fascist we have in office. Let me clarify though, I don't support censorship on DU, I am just incredulous at some peoples stupidity.

[TruthIsAll]

36. I am NOT a Kerry supporter; in fact I lean to Clark.

But I would vote for YOU if you were the candidate..

[arewethereyet]

25. freedom of speech

you're suggesting this be a no free speech zone then ?

[Tinoire]

28. What?! Is it already a fascist state? Or is it just weak Democrats

who need loyalty oaths?

:puke:

Living in the USSR!

[bicentennial_baby]

29. For once, we agree

:puke:

[Tinoire]

43. I have a feeling we will agree more often than not

once we get past these Primaries. This is really no small or insincere compliment ok? But even though I distrust Clark, I really like a lot of his supporters. There are 2 Clark DUers in my area that I've known a long time from activist events and really like, there are a few more in my area I would really like to meet after the Primaries, and there are many more I am sorry I will never get to meet. Please take that sincerely because that's how it's meant. It took a few PMs but I eat crow for having thought that there was no way a real progressive could like Clark. Yes, I eat crow- many of you (I have no idea how many) definitely are.

Thanks very much. No matter how much I personally distrust Clark, he has some really fine people supporting him.

[JohnKleeb]

52. Youre a good woman Cass

I feel the same, I am no fan of Clark for reasons I wont specify but some of his supporters are old friends and I wont lose friendship. I would prefer you all to support the nominee :D but I am not gonna force you to vote a certain way. When I was exclusively for DK, I hated us being labled Naderites. All is good. I am sorta ABB but not really.

[krkaufman]

63. but I am not gonna force you to vote a certain way.

> but I am not gonna force you to vote a certain way.

Well thank you, my Lord. Shall I fetch your slippers?

What a hoot.

[bicentennial_baby]

53. OMG! Thank you Tinoire!

I most definitely know what a major compliment that is, coming from you. It really cheers me to hear this, and I greatly admire both your research skills and your strong support of Dennis. Any candidate would be lucky to have a supporter such as yourself. Keep fighting the good fight! :toast:

ps-I saw a Kucinich ad on New England Cable News yesterday, and it was excellent!

[mzmolly]

32. MY ASS! Another pathetic unite behind John Kerry thread I see.

Sorry, We've got a democracy to get on with.

Watch history in the making, were going all the way to the convention baby!

[TruthIsAll]

58. Wrong! I am a Bush hater first. And I would rather see Clark or Dean.

Right away, you assume that I am a stealth Kerry supporter. What does that say about you?

Did you even once consider that that I am just a patriotic American who wants Bush out in the worst way?

There is no one at DU who has posted as much as I have against Bush.

My real favorite is Al Gore. Remember him?

[quaker bill]

33. Feeling a little bit strident?

Loyalty oath threads are lame. Perhaps what you are seeing is more an adverse reaction to that than anything else.

[RobertSeattle]

37. I'm ABBCDEF...

Anybody But
Bush
Cheney
Delay
Ed Gillespie
Frist

[JohnKleeb]

38. They have a right to vote as they prefer in GE

I wont take that right from them, though I would prefer them vote for nom, I am not gonna force them.

[IowaBiker]

40. Absolutely!

This thread is making it clear that there are some very shady characters in here, who care more about their own selfish issues, rather than the good of all.

Every time the party goes their way, all America loses.

To let Bush win is awful. Where I'm from you can get bounced from the party for it.

--Brian

[YNGW]

41. Banning's not good enough. Let's burn them at the stake!!

:eyes:

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

44. I'd support capital punishment in this case

[Tinoire]

56. Can I be first?

Kerry used to be my number 2. Right now he's floating between 2 & 4 for various reasons but damn, burn me first ok?

Burn someone who has defended Kerry over a few things.

It will make me feel better about all this fascism because I won't have to see it ;)

If this is the only way to get Kerry votes- then count this one out. I hope the other Kerry supporters lambast the thread's author for this.

[FubarFly]

45. I am not ABB, I am a TBMCer

(Take Back My Country)

I will not vote for a candidate that advances the corporate agenda.

Sorry.

If your candidate is really serving in the interest of the people, then convince me. I'm all ears.

On a side note, you are REAALLLY going to hate my idea that we ban all posters who ask us to give up our democratic right to choose by posting loyalty threads.

[krkaufman]

64. Hear, hear!!

Or maybe just a time-out, eh?

Bad democrat, baaaaaaad.



(Please note the lowercase "d"; no "Green" flames.)

edit: p.s. Supporter of Clark, democracy, free speech and secret ballots.

[Hoppin_Mad]

46. Sorry - But I ABSOLUTELY REFUSE to vote for

LaRouche

Don't make me do it.

;-)

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

54. What are you

some kind of PNAC stooge? ABB! ABB! ABB!

I said ABB! Aaaaaarrrrrrgggghhhhhhhh!!!!!

[Tinoire]

48. Just for this- I'm going to go vote no in that silly poll.

These Gestapo technics are beneath DU. At least they used to be.

[krkaufman]

67. Vote early, vote often...

I think I'll even delete my cookies and vote "no" a few more times.

[corporatewhore]

49. no more lame ass excuses

a weak cannidate who wont stand up against bush will lose against bush (sniffle sniffle) it will all be naders fault cause he will challenge his record that he was responsible for

[Melinda]

57. I WILL SIT ON MY HANDS, I WILL SIT ON MY HANDS, I WILL SIT ON MY HANDS!!!!

What Tinoire said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:grr: :argh: :wtf::grr: :argh: :wtf::grr: :argh: :wtf::grr: :argh: :wtf::grr: :argh: :wtf::grr: :argh: :wtf::grr: :argh: :wtf::grr: :argh: :wtf::grr: :argh: :wtf::grr: :argh: :wtf::grr: :argh: :wtf::grr: :argh: :wtf::grr: :argh: :wtf:

[Duncan Grant]

61. Instead of this "with us or against us" rhetoric...

why not ask "why are these voters feeling disenfranchised"? Isn't it possible that on some level they have a legitimate complaint?

I can't defend (nor do I support) 4 more years under the dark prince from Hell but I am *so* keen to tap into the progressive energy of the left! Of course, I'm assuming this sentiment is from the left...God knows why I continue to hang in there with a party that can't embrace gay marriage (when it's the moral and ethical thing to do) but wtf...4 more years under B*sh would be far worse.

Just my 2 cents. Let's build bridges to the future ya'll.

[Democrats unite]

66. This is begining to sound like Bush's America to me.

[southerngirlwriter]

70. REALLY? So, are you saying that it would be OK

with you to have DU'ers posting here whose position was that they didn't like the Dem enough, or the Dem was not good enough for them, or whatever, so they were voting for *??

That would be okay with you?? It would really be okay with you to have Bush voters starting threads and replying to your posts??

REALLY?

WHY??

Why would you want people here who won't vote for the Democratic nominee, huh? Isn't there another message board to hang out with those people on??

WTF?

[blurp]

71. The trouble for me is

I'm sure Kerry believes everything he says. I think in his heart he is a real Democrat.

But I can't get over how he has basically married into big money, not once, but twice - first to Julia Thorne then to Teresa Heinz. I just can't relate to him.

I liked that fact that Carter was a farmer. He had to work to get what he had. He life seems much more real to me.

When I see Kerry, I just can't see him really understanding what working life is all about.

[Moderator]

73. Locking

4. You may not start a new discussion thread in order to continue a current or recent flame war from another thread. The moderators have the authority to lock similar threads in order to contain flaming on a particular topic to only one thread at a time.

Thanks

DU Moderator