Changed mind, I don't think I can vote for Kerry (Maybe not)

[Gadave]

EDIT: some people have informed me only one person voted against it, so maybe its not as much of an issue as it could be. Still, I am really disappointed if that is true that only one person could stand against such bad law!

Of the 4 candidates with any chance to win the nomination, I no longer think I can vote for Kerry. For me the Patriot act is one of the worst things our government has tried to do to the people. As always they take some tragedy and use it as an excuse to control us more and more.

I was just informed that Kerry voted for it. What was he thinking? It pains me greatly that our likely nominee sacrificed our freedoms just to be "electable". If we want things like the Patriot act to go away, we can't elect Dems who are willing to support such things.

Please, please, please tell me my source is wrong, and he opposed it. I am not generally a single issue voter and can overlook a lot of bad things, but this one issue trumps everything for me. It messes with every freedom we have.

I hope Dean or Clark can catch up and stay alive. I didn't add Edwards cause I fear he might have voted for it too, and I am afraid to look it up, as it could be too depressing.

[Seldona]

1. It appears he voted for the first one.

Include a sunset provision in the Patriot Act


Q: Would you revise or repeal the Patriot Act?
A: I strongly supported including a sunset provision in the Patriot Act. Bush reportedly plans to introduce a second "Patriot Act" - we have learned from the first Patriot Act that the last thing we need is John Ashcroft rewriting the Bill of Rights. I am alarmed by what has been reported to be part of "Patriot Act II" and I will very carefully review any new proposal and fight to ensure that it does not violate civil liberties.

Source: MoveOn.org interview Jun 17, 2003

Found this at: http://www.issues2000.org/2004/John_Kerry_Civil_Rights.htm

So he voted for it, but insisted on the sunset provision.

And it appears he was against PA2.

[bowens43]

2. Only one senator voted against the Patriot Act.

Only Senator Russell Feingold Voted against it. I very much suspect that if Dean and Clark had been in the Senate, they too would have voted in favor of this abominable legislation.

[Gadave]

3. I am not sure if I feel better or worse.

Are you sure it was the Patriot act or the authorization of force?

If THAT many people voted for it, I am pretty scared for our country right now.

On the other hand it means Kerry's vote had less meaning. I am a little dissappointed in our guys for letting that monster pass with such little oppositon.

[bowens43]

6. It was the Patriot Act.

We did better in the House where I beleive 75 Democrats and three Republicans voted against it.

[Seldona]

4. Yea!

Feingold is from Wisconsin too. :)

I wrote him a note the day he voted against it.

Damn proud of that.

Russ :yourock:

[isbister]

5. There are many, many good things

to come from the Patriot Act. It is not all bad. There were loopholes Ashcroft exploited and they will be closed... probably before any Dem nominee gets into office or soon after.

[Gadave]

7. If Kerry comes out (or any other candidate) and supports that then ..

... I can forgive that they voted for it. We cannot empower Ashcroft and his J Edgar Hoover wannabees.

[bowens43]

9. I disagree.

There are not 'many many good things to come from the patriot act'. It is an abomination. It was a cowardly knee jerk reaction. Not one of these Senators even read the patriot act before voting for it, not one. It is a direct attack on our Constitution and our freedom.

[Lexingtonian]

8. Hmmm, that sounds paranoid.

But if you vote for a candidate that is weak and Bush gets reelected, they'll renew it. If Kerry gets elected, it 'sunsets'. If you're a rational voter you avoid the dilemma you think you have. Be a Democrat, not an Emotionalocrat.

Some of the provisions are sensible. Others aren't. It's the ethnic profiling that bothers me, but that's not actually in that bill, it's in the Republican appointees that dictate how it's enforced.

[bowens43]

11. There is nothing paranoid about despising

this piece of legislation and those who voted for it. To say that it's not the bill that's bad , it's those enforcing it, is exactly the same argument used to support at the freeper site. It's a bad law . It's a slap in our face. We may as well use the Bill of Rights for toilet paper.

[SheilaT]

10. I also feel that I cannot vote

for anyone who voted for the Patriot Act. I think we need a complete change of people in both House and Senate, even though I know that won't happen.

I knew the Patriot Act was wrong. I wouldn't have voted for it. Many of us out there knew it was a huge mistake to pass legislation like that. The SOBs didn't even read the thing.

I also can't vote for anyone who voted for the IWR, which leaves out a lot of people, including St. Hillary.

One thing to keep in mind, separate from the votes on these two issues, is that this congress has a history of passing major legislation quickly, without adequate discussion or debate, almost secretly in the middle of the night. Imagine what they'll accomplish with four more years of Bush and cowardly Democrats who never stand up to him.

[Gadave]

12. UGHH!!!!

Now I know why I stopped watching TV news. Hillary voted for it too ?

I know the implications of what only one senator voted against it means, but when you actually mention individuals who voted for it, I cringe and want to shake them like a jiffy pop bag.

[TreasonousBastard]

13. Unfortunately...

this happens all the time. Humongous legislation of a thousand pages or more gets to a vote after committees play around with it for months and very few congresscritters, or their staffs, get to read the whole thing.

The Immigration Reform Act of '96 and several of the omnibus crime laws were also horrific in their buried implications. But, they got passed anyway, and even some of the good guys voted for them.

Essentally, everyone is pretty much pressured to vote for the good parts of the law and told to suck up the nasty stuff. If any of us were in that position, and watching our backs over the next election where the opponent will undoubtedly call us soft on crime, terrorism, illegal immigration, Communism, or any other bugbear that comes up, we'd likely do the same-- at least some of the time.

Representative democracy does have its downsides, and purity of thought and deed here on the outside is a lot easier than on the Hill.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

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[LosAngelesDemocrat]

15. Resolving The Conflict between voting for it and not supporting it

The important thing to understand is that with politics a vote does not always reflect position. In today's media it is always played as such but in reality there are always subtleties to an item to be voted on. Yes and no votes when cast only reflect a snapshot and do not include reservations to the individual that cast them. The vote on the Patriot Act is not a vote on the actual legislation but actually a vote against 9/11. A vote that we will not stand down to terrorism. That "yes" vote by Kerry is only one snapshot- it does not have an asterisk next to it indicating his own reservations.

Now that it is already established that we will not stand down to terrorism, we can now focus on the actual legislation - especially when we have seen it in action. You saw the State of the Union speech and how when Bush mentioned the Patriot act, the whole democratic wing stood opposed in unison. In addition, this is also not a partisan issue- I think the NRA is against it also.

We have to choose our battles carefully and when we fight them - if Kerry voted "No" at that point, he would of been marginalized and typecast by the media and everyone as not caring for the victims of 9/11. Then Bush and the republicans would of won and used it to increase their domination of their hold on government call us liberal freaks - and most at that time would of agreed. A protest vote of "No" would of not accomplished nothing at that time - everyone was irrational. All a protest vote would of done is say that you were with the terrorists. Now that we are more rational, the politicians and the public; we rationally see how this threatens American values and our way of life. I assure you that Kerry, the democratic senators, a few republicans, and all the other democratic candidates see it in that way also.


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