Is There a Case for Impeachment? -- Yep, say Conyers, Dean, Holtzman, etc.

[choie]

Last night I and 2499 other lucky folks in NYC attended a panel organized by Harper's Magazine entitled, "Is There a Case for Impeachment?" Stephanie outlined the highlights of the discussion in her post here, but I wanted to share some of the political messages of the night ... and so I figured this belongs in GDP.

To summarize quickly: the panelists were John Conyers, Elizabeth Holtzman, John Dean, Louis Lapham, and Michael Ratner; the moderator was Sam Seder (AAR cohost of "Majority Report"). Town Hall was jam-packed with an enthusiastic & knowledgable crowd. Many appeared to be Harpers subscribers, not surprisingly. :) The TV camera setup was to my right, and CSPAN is allegedly planning on showing the event at some point. (Oh, and the answer to the panel title, "Is There a Case for Impeachment?" turned out to be "HELL YEAH." In case you were wondering...! As Michael Ratner said, we have 'em dead to rights on failing to uphold & protect the constitution, i.e. subversion of our liberties, lying us into war, spying domestically without warrants, etc.)

Sam Seder did a great job as moderator. When he introduced the five panelists, he saved Conyers for last -- appropriately, as he probably knew what to expect from the crowd. And sure enough, most in the audience rose to our feet as we fulfilled our obligation to show the great congressman how much we appreciated his fighting spirit.

And yet if I may be so bold, I think the 'breakout' star of the evening wasn't our current beloved congressman, as much as he kicked ass. For me, it was former representative Elizabeth Holtzman who really shone brightest. Maybe it was just a surprise for me, since as much as I always liked her, I'm too young to have seen her at the height of her career. But she provided the MOST important message of the night: that as impatient as we all are with the wimpos in Congress and wondering why they're not impeaching the president NOW, the fact is that impeachment isn't gonna come from them. It's the people who really have to impeach the president.

Let me explain. First, she reminded us that Nixon's downfall and impeachment hearings weren't caused by Congress. (Congress was relatively slow to act after Watergate, she pointed out.) To the contrary: they were caused because the PEOPLE demanded impeachment hearings. The people were disgusted by Archibald Cox's firing that they finally said ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! and the outcry pushed a reluctant congress into action. Even though the impeachment vote never went through, the public demand for justice brought Nixon to his knees.

She pointed out that we should look at the other recent impeachment as an example of how NOT to bring down a president. Clinton's impeachment, though it was voted through in the House, didn't cause his downfall. Why? Because it was artificially induced. The people of the USA never thought his so-called crime rose to the level of impeachment in the first place. It was the Repugs who initiated the whole mess for purely political purposes, and politics alone aren't enough to destroy a popular, capable president in the eyes of the US citizens.

So the message for us is that we can't sit on our hands waiting for congress to shake off the fear of being called unpatriotic, as Conyers warned. We can't hope for the largesse of the Repugs in allowing a Select Committee to take place. God knows we can't count on the media remembering what journalistic integrity is to put the politicians' feet to the fire. WE have the power, and we need to wield it. That means emailing, writing, calling, hell even harassing our representatives on the sidewalk if necessary (that suggestion was from Michael Ratner, not me!). It means demonstrating and screaming at the top of our lungs. It means sending money and volunteering and registering voters and monitoring ballot boxes and in short doing everything possible to get Democrats elected in '06.

Definitely catch this if you can on CSPAN. Also, listen in to Majority Report tonight on AAR ... Sam will probably share his own thoughts!

P.S. by the way, if you attend one of these things and have the opportunity to ask a question, my two main suggestions are: a) kindly ask a SINGLE question as requested by the moderator -- I can't tell you how many people tried to give a goddamned speech despite pleas from the panelists, boos from the audience members, and the huge line of others waiting for their turn to speak; and b) do NOT make an ass of yourself and hurt your cause by insulting the one man who has done the most to speak truth to power in congress! (Yeah, I'm looking at you, Mr. IMPEACH_PAC guy who had the cajones to try and browbeat John freakin' Conyers. Sheesh!)

[Deep13]

1. Bush admitted to Federal felony on TV.

That wiretapping thing is expressly verboten under Federal law and he admitted to it.

[choie]

11. ooh -- yes, they made quite a point of that!

Dean and Ratner were in ecstasies of delight over the fact that Bush is the only president who actually admitted to an impeachable offense in public!

That's the thing about Bush. He has no shame ... he gloats over his tyranny. As Dean pointed, just as Nixon's very nature led to his political destruction, Bush's shameless, narcissistic, entitled nature will eventually do the same. Dean believes we're seeing the beginning of the end now.

[MadMaddie]

2. Choie thank you for the summarization.....how exciting...

I haven't had the chance to attend any events in the Seattle area yet but I will get there..

It's exciting that these discussions are being held...

We are the people and I believe we are the majority.....I think this country is going to galvanize to get rid of the criminals and traitors that are in DC and around the country.

We do have leaders and they are just not getting the face time on the National Networks...we have to find a way to counteract that.....


Thanks again for the write up!!

[choie]

12. you're very welcome!

Thank you for the kind words. I don't attend events as often as I should - and in NYC there are tons of 'em - but this one just called to me and I HAD to go! I really hope CSPAN shows it soon so folks nationwide can 'attend' for free. :)

[RufusEarl]

3. Thanks for the post, i'll be sure and catch this on Cspan

[savemefromdumbya]

4. Majority of people areapathetic and misinformed so..................

If you are asking the people to do this? These days the majority of people are so apathetic and misinformed I don't know what it will take to get them motivated. We at DU and other left leaning sections of the public seem to be voices in the wilderness, yet we try so hard.....

There is a huge list of misdemeanors and incompetance:

1. Civil War in Iraq
2. Ports being turned over to UAR and even Repubs in revolt over it
3. Deficits from here to infinity
4. North Korea with Nuclear weapons
5. Iran thumbing its nose at the world and reconstituting uranium
6. Hamas in control in Palestine
7. Eavesdropping on Americans
8. An executive branch running wild in the USA
9. Our military stretched thin beyond belief
10. Over 2200 Americans dead and thousands wounded
11. Contempt for the USA around the world
12. Katrina still not addressed
13. Only 4% of the cargo entering our ports being inspected
14. Gas at $2.35 plus a gallon
15. Public Education in a mess
16. Trade deficits at the highest level ever
17. The illegal immigration/border problem out of control
18. Families split/ not speaking to each other over partisanship in the USA.
19. Indictments at the top of the government.
20. Secret deals on energy and much else.
21. Tax cuts for the top 2% of the wealthiest Americans while , as the industrial economy changes to a service economy, the middle class standard of living drops.
22. A NEGATIVE rate of savings in the USA for the first time since 1933.
23. College tuition up 34% in the last 4 years.
24. A disastrous prescription drug plan as a result of a sellout to the drug companies.
25. Osama Bin Laden still not captured.

[libodem]

5. Spectacular list

makes great bones for a sweet LTE, I'm bookmarking it, thanks, Libo

[electropop]

10. Don't forget the stolen elections.

He shouldn't be there in the first place.

[choie]

13. Very true...

I think people ARE waking up, though ... certainly more than the media is accurately portraying. Bush's poll numbers are among the absolute lowest for ANY second term president, and with the VP at 18%, clearly 4 out of 5 people agree on more than Trident: Cheney is craptastic!

No, the country isn't as dumb as the media likes to think we are. Calling everyone to action is a tough job, but I don't think an impossible one.

[omega minimo]

6. DU AT ITS ABSOLUTE BEST!!!!!!! THANK YOU.........k&r

:yourock:

Informed, informative, clear, concise, personal, action-oriented, (even managed to mention "wimpos" and "cajones" without ignorant vulgarities). You are fortunate to have been there and we are fortunate that you shared this with us. Thank you.

Question:

If we do activate for impeachment, can the whole regime be impeached so we don't end up with an (official) President Dick? Any chance the new revelations about stolen election(s) factors into that effort?

:bounce:

[choie]

14. what a wonderful compliment, thank you!

Wowee, I really appreciate your feedback, omega minimo! :D

"If we do activate for impeachment, can the whole regime be impeached so we don't end up with an (official) President Dick? Any chance the new revelations about stolen election(s) factors into that effort?"

Several people made that very point at the event. Dean and Conyers asserted that Cheney can and almost certainly would be impeached alongside Bush, especially since Dick can hardly claim to have been ignorant of or separate from Bush's misdoings. (If anything, Bush may try to push the guilt onto Cheney, although that probably won't work since - as mentioned earlier in the thread - Bush practically bragged about breaking the law.)

Holtzman was heated up over the 230 emails that were revealed as having been 'held back' from Fitzgerald's Plame investigation. She mentioned them no less than three separate times, and seemed to think that they just might be the very thing that brings the White House, and particularly Cheney, to justice for obstruction of justice.

[omega minimo]

16. DU has so much potential. Your post represents a balance

we could use more of-- it seems the point of a board like this.................


Re: DC-- also the unreleased info on the corporate crony Energy Dept. meetings/policy............ Halliburton no bid profiteering.......... what happened on 9-11? (HE was calling the shots re: scrambling planes?) .............................

[Gregorian]

7. This is reason to be optimistic, even if we aren't impeaching just one man

Thank you so much for sharing this. America is as alive as it's citizens are paying attention.

But Nixon was essentially one bad man. Correct me if I am wrong. But this is an entire cabal. We are up against the things that sprang from the loins of the Nixon era. Nevertheless, I believe what Holtzman said is true. The fact that the Watergate story was below the fold on page 19 of the New York time, AND the fact that Congress was essentially in quicksand, gives us great optimism.

I keep finding reasons to smile again. What a great juxtaposition- Clinton versus Nixon. Glorious. We are where the buck stops.

[choie]

15. Thanks! And what a great phrase...

"America is as alive as its citizens are paying attention." I love it!

"But Nixon was essentially one bad man. Correct me if I am wrong. But this is an entire cabal."

Nixon had quite the cabal surrounding him too. G. Gordon Liddy, John Mitchell, Bob Haldeman, Howard Hunt, Chuck Colson, John Ehrlichman, and (Rove mentor) Donald Segretti among them. Here's a great rundown of the other players besides Nixon.

But I agree wholeheartedly that Bush has a wider universe of scumbags surrounding him, with more heinous crimes in their roster to boot.

[Spike from MN]

8. Thanks for posting.

However, I do need to point out one slight error in your post. You wrote that Elizabeth Holtzman said, in comparing Clinton's impeachment to a potential impeachment of the Chimp, that "politics alone aren't enough to destroy a popular, capable president." That is all well and good but Dubya is neither of those things. Actually, come to think of it, he isn't ANY of those things since stolen "elections" don't really count. ;)

Thanks for taking the time to not only attend the discussion panel but also to post a summary here. This is valuable information indeed. I will contact my legislators and press them hard on the impeachment issue since that seems to be the way to go about it.

[choie]

17. Hi Spike! You're right...

"However, I do need to point out one slight error in your post. You wrote that Elizabeth Holtzman said, in comparing Clinton's impeachment to a potential impeachment of the Chimp, that "politics alone aren't enough to destroy a popular, capable president." That is all well and good but Dubya is neither of those things. Actually, come to think of it, he isn't ANY of those things since stolen "elections" don't really count."

It's my fault as I probably stated it poorly, but this was actually Holtzman's point - that Clinton, a popular & successful pres, wasn't brought down despite impeachment, whereas Bush is UNpopular and UNsuccessful, and the people would be far more likely to support the impeachment process against Bush. In short, an impeachment would have far more grave consequences for Bush's pResidency.

Does that make more sense?

[jarnocan]

9. thanks I am so down, also link to Salon article

that we still don't even have the right to verifiable elections. http://www.icountcoalition.org/indistlandingpage.html because democracy counts. http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2006/03/03/impeachment/index.html (getting in via the ad is not a big deal-couple seconds)

[Independent_Liberal]

18. The Conyers "Impeachment Encampment" is all set up!

We the People have work to do.

:)

[FreedomAngel82]

19. I can't wait to see this on CSPAN!

Any word on when the airdate is?

[choie]

20. Tonight at 9:30PM est on CSPAN2

Janeane Garafolo just announced on Majority Report (AAR) that the Case for Impeachment forum will be broadcast tonight (Monday) at 9:30PM EST on CSPAN2. Most likely this means it'll be available for download on the CSPAN2 website too. Don't miss it!