Do you get the sense they are trying to force Hillary on us?

[joeprogressive]

They being republicans and the MSM. I mean if they say it enough, her poll numbers will keep going up among likely Dem candidates and we will get stuck with her just because of name recognition. It is entirely possible that people are that dumb. How did Bush get re-elected after a failed first term? Putting Diebold explanations aside it could have been simply the effective swift boat ads, name recognition of an emcumbent, and the fear factor that was created by the Rovian machine. You have to ask yourself, would Bush have OK'd this Dubai port deal before the 2004 elections? Not a chance in hell. Bush grabbed that 7-10% clueless vote from people that tend to vote for a) name on top of the ballot b) name most recognizable c) name least demonized in the press In this case Bush fit all three criteria. If polling of independents is any indication of how the country feels now, Bush's presidency is in deep trouble, 2006 looks good for Dems, and 2008 looks great for a Dem presidency.

That being said, the Hillary factor is throwing everything off. They know they can vilify Hillary and pull it off. I believe they are most scared of Gore as a candidate. The candidate that they couldn't attack personally and brings the added dimension of "let's see what would have happened if things would have gone the other way in 2000." After 8 years of hell, people would love to have Clinton/Gore times back. Hopefully they will see this as best being achieved with the nomination of Gore and not Hillary Clinton.

Although I think Clark, Feingold and several other Dem candidates would make excellent presidents, I think Gore is the rightful heir of the backlash that is about to take place. We have to sink Hillary's momentum now. She is a distraction and has been an embarrassment to the Democratic party as of late.

[senseandsensibility]

1. Yes

That's been obvious to me from the beginning.

[Quakerfriend]

4. ditto ;-)!

I would love to see Gore run again! I think the country would go wild for him this time around!

I love Hillary, but everyone knows that she probably could not pull it off, given the visceral hatred of the Clintons that still exists on the right.

[senseandsensibility]

18. The thing I like most about Gore

besides the fact that he is our last real President, (and therefore is our current President) is that he has LEARNED from the past five years. Unlike Hillary, he does not give the * "administration" the benefit of the doubt. He said in his last speech that * has been breaking the law. He is not the same man that he was in 2000. Sadly, too many of our elected Dems are exactly the same as they were then.

[Digit]

56. The thing I dislike most about Gore...

Is that he picked Lieberman.
I did not like Lieberman THEN, and I dislike him more NOW.

Gore, of all people, should have known the REAL Lieberman...the one we are all too chagrined to
see in the media.

Maybe I am the only one who faults Gore for this...but I do.

[senseandsensibility]

59. That bothers me too

I was never that crazy about Gore in 2000, but I voted for him and he WON. Nevertheless, he had grown since 2000. Lieberman has regressed. I appreciate those that can grow and change, since I have had to do my share of that.

[Digit]

61. Don't get me wrong, I really like Al Gore....

I have always respected his intelligence, even though some thought he was boring. I never understood how people could say they were SO stupid that they could not follow what he was saying.

How can a leopard change their spots so rapidly, like Lieberman? How come Al Gore could not perceive this ahead of time?

I guess this is not the time to go into Lieberman's annoying voice, huh?

[marions ghost]

83. politically

2000 was vastly different from 2008. Lieberman then was perceived as a centrist, while Gore was perceived as being "too liberal." (And remember Gore had to get away from the Scourge of the Clenis).

Obviously the combination of Gore/Lieberman was OK with the voters, since they elected them.

[FreedomAngel82]

34. At least not now anyways

Maybe in a few years but not now. I think in 2008 will be the perfect time for a true blue progressive to run whether Gore, Kerry or Feingold. Any of them could easily pull it off I think.

[kick_them_hard]

22. ABSOLUTELY!

just like they pushed Senator Kerry in the last election.

[FreedomAngel82]

35. And your proof is where now?

[barbaraann]

2. Yes, yes, yes.

And I am NOT happy about it.

[TomInTib]

3. Absolutely. They have to give the "Base" a focus for their hate...

I have believed this for quite some time.

By framing the situation, the 'pubs either have the Dems on the defensive or they keep them silent.

I believe Clinton is doing the right thing by publicly focusing on relevant legislative duties and her Senate campaign.

[Vinca]

5. Yes and I'm getting tired of hearing it. nt

[CTyankee]

6. I don't know about "rightful heirs" altho I love Gore

Things are going to shake down plenty with the 06 election. If we get the HOuse and the Senate back (please, god!)there will be a new awareness of what this country will be looking for in a pres. candidate for 08.

I kinda think it will be a newer face for prez in the party.

[IndianaGreen]

7. Hillary is the safety valve for the ruling class!

The one thing the ruling class fears the most is that working Americans will suddenly realize they have been taken for a ride by both major parties and begin to push for real radical reforms. The only way to prevent that is by maintaining the pretense of an opposition party, so if public discontent with Bush reaches a critical mass, the elites can quickly rally around an "opposition" candidate that they know won't turn the apple cart.

"No more New Deals!" is the elites's rallying cry, which is echoed by such groups as the DLC.

[laststeamtrain]

11. A new 'new deal' is exactly what would inspire me. I'd like to see...

...a Gore/Edwards ticket. It might be largely symbolic. But it would be a start.

[marions ghost]

84. Symbolism

is very important in times as unnerving as these. I think Gore/Edwards would have an incredibly hard job...but they might have a chance of pulling us out of the death spiral.

One from each of the stolen elections would seem only right.

[Donna Zen]

64. Correct..

Vote Plan A or Plan B...

Hillary is promoting Hillary. It's her turn...get with the program! (snark)

[Mist]

8. Yes, for over a year. They'd LOVE to run against Hillary. I guess what

actual voters think is beside the point...

[libodem]

9. I think and feel that is so

seriously, I'm no political wizard and I rely on my gut instincts alot, so my views are strictly opinion. I'd hazard a guess that, Tony Snow and Carl Rove, give the pundits on RW radio their homework and the talking points they don't scrounge up from, the Drudge report and they are the ones making the noise about her running. They figure she is beatable from the stand point of swift-boating her with a smear campaign.

[murray hill farm]

10. no doubt about it.

They wish with all the evil in their greedy little hearts that Hillary would be the Dem candidate....and they think we are soooooooooo stupid that if they say it enough, we will do it.

[FreedomAngel82]

36. And you also have to remember with the republicans

they like to frame the debate first. So they're attacking her early which is really quite strange since we don't really know if she's going to run. Wouldn't it be funny if she doesn't run and they spend all their time, money and resources on attacking her instead of the real canidate? That would be funny.

[TankLV]

12. Yes.

Keep her in the Senate - she's doing a good job for the state where she is.

[Nay]

13. Oh, most definitely. Hillary would divide the Dems and rally the

"I Hate Hitlery" Pubs. That's why she CANNOT BE the nominee. If by some chance she is our nominee, I will know, in my heart of hearts, that things are so irretrievably broken that it's time to pull up stakes and leave. It will mean that "they" own everything, and we have little more than the poor Russians did during the Communist heyday, when you got to vote between two indistinguishable Communists.

I would love to see Gore in, but I don't know if it's possible. Clark is fine, Feingold is fine, but I just don't see a reformer getting in. I have no idea why reformers aren't first and foremost on the list, but I suspect it may be because this is an oligarchy, not a democracy.

[liberal N proud]

14. The only ones talking about Hillary running are the Repukes

They need her to run, because they can start dishing the dirt now.

[Frank Cannon]

68. Al Franken, Jerry Springer, and Ed Schultz are talking about it too...

but for the most part, you're right. It's the Republicans that are screaming for her candidacy the loudest. Even Tucker Carlson is speculating about what a formidable candidate she would make. If Tucker said the sun was going to rise tomorrow, I'd seriously be trying to find a way to another solar system by nightfall.

[Deb]

15. Why would any Dem want to sink Hillary's

momentum before the '06 election? :shrug:

[madmom]

16. Yes they are, that way they can make the election about her (lots

of people out there hate her just because her name is Clinton)and not the real issues.

[MADem]

17. Let them talk her up--it's ALL GOOD

Hillary will have to, if she chooses to run, compete against others in a spirited primary. No one is going to crown her.

What's good about her taking all the heat is that other candidates can get out there and beat the bushes and do the grassroots work, without those bastards in the GOP spending as much time or effort doing their usual smear/oppo research.

If you remember, Hill's husband came out of left field, and no one expected him to win. It could happen the same way this next cycle.

It's way too soon to get all exorcised about who is going to make the cut, or even run. For all we know, Hill could be playing the "tethered goat" strategy, drawing all their ire and energy so they don't notice other possibilities until they are well entrenched in our machine's network and ready to kick ass.

[spindrifter]

19. Watch for them to start pouring money

into her warchest. That will be the telling point.

[FreedomAngel82]

37. Recently I remember reading earlier this week

that she has hired James Carville to work with her. :shrug:

[Sydnie]

20. Yes I do

I think they are daring us to nominate her. They are idiots. We will be too if that becomes our reason to nominate anyone.

[Greyhound]

21. "It is entirely possible that people are that dumb"

I would think that after the last 30 to 40 years it is obvious that they are, in fact, just that dumb. Whatever they see the most often on the soma-box is what they'll do, without fail.
Plunderers don't spend billions of dollars every year for commercials because they don't work. :banghead:

[FreedomAngel82]

38. Why else do they have the "liberal media" myth?

They think people really buy the whole "liberal media" nonsense so if enough people are talking about Hillary running in the future that she will run because she would believe that the people want her to run and other democrats will think others want to support her. I hope I'm not confusing. :blush:

[originalpckelly]

23. Hillary Shouldn't Run

That is if there are Presidential elections in 2008. I would like a woman as President, but we need to win. I think Mark Warner would be a great President!

[ChipsAhoy]

24. When I mention Gore -- "He lost his home state."

I cannot get past that statement from my family who laughs whenever I mention Gore. I can't come back with a reason that he lost Tennessee, other than America is a lot bigger than ONE state.

Anyway, my Repub family says they would love to see Gore back on the ballot and Hillary too.

I STILL think we need to find someone fresh and NEW!!!

[senseandsensibility]

25. When Tucker Carlson kept baiting James Carville on the

old Crossfire show on CNN, saying that Gore couldn't win his own state, James had the perfect response. He said that that was better than *, who couldm't even win his own COUNTRY. Think about it.

[ChipsAhoy]

26. OH wow!!

I will commit that one to memory!!!

Thanks!! You guys here on DU have helped me a lot in my forever plight with my family. God love 'em! LOL!!!!

[kath]

27. There was quite a bit of election fraud in Tennessee.

[FreedomAngel82]

40. Only by 3% and things have changed since 2000 too

I think Gore could either barely win or win closer than he did in 2000. We have a democratic governor now.

[Lars39]

47. There were voting irregularities in TN, too.

It didn't just happen in Florida.

[election_2004]

28. It's the corporate-funded MSM.....

The MSM media knows that President Hillary = 4-8 years of "exciting" controversy and ratings gold for them.

So every time Hillary opens her mouth, they give her a front-page headline.

The MSM knows that a Republican House/Senate majority in Congress will most likely accompany any election of Hillary Clinton to the presidency, which will ensure constant deadlock and more "excitement" for them to cover...

[laugle]

29. I say GORE/HILLARY in 2008!!!!

Hell, the regressives are scared of the Clintons getting back in the White House.

Bill Clinton would become a special envoy in the Middle east and continue his work to bring a peaceful solution to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

They would do everything this idiot in the White House couldn't do!!

[AtomicKitten]

30. I would love Al Gore to run in 2008.

But I'm getting damn sick of people claiming the Republicans and the MSM are "pushing Hillary on us." The only reason the MSM and Repubs are talking about her is because she consistently polls highest in Democratic polling, meaning clearly the majority of Democrats want her. But the Hillary-bashers and faux radicals just can't be honest about that.

Manipulation comes in all political persuasions.

[laugle]

44. I totally agree with you! It's obvious to me that

the regressives are scared shitless by her and want to start there bashing as early as possible.

Did you hear yesterday that they are going to run someone against her for Senator--the only purpose is to deplete her of monies which she could use in a 2008 run for president, since any monies raised can be carried over.

That's sounds like desperation to me!!

I had to laugh when Hillary said "Karl Rove seems to be obsessing about me." I think that's about right.

Anyway, I don't need to explain to you re the Hillary haters, I know you get it!!

[election_2004]

48. *gasp*

The opposition putting up a sacrificial lamb against a (pretty much) guaranteed U.S. Senate incumbent - - whatever is the world coming too?

And don't kid yourself...most Republican "insiders" know that a President Hillary would actually govern from the center - - they want her in the White House so they can use her position as the face of the Democratic Party to make her a red herring to spur GOP-manipulated voter turnout in 2008, 2010, and 2012.

[laugle]

51. Hey election 2004, how you doing?

I guess that makes 2 of us that want Hill and Bill back in the white house!

I'm getting that De-ja-vu feeling of having had this conversation with you before. LOL

Anyway.....it's to damn early to get on this subject.

Peace to you....

[election_2004]

54. If it's too early....

...then why are people already cheerleading for the usual suspects?

Hmmm....

[election_2004]

46. Then why is it....

...that the media has been talking up the idea of Hillary running for president ever since the very first day she entered the U.S. Senate (and Bush entered the White House) in 2001?

[AtomicKitten]

53. let's do the math

Bill and Hillary are both smart, savvy, dynamic, ambitious people, and Hillary proved that when she won a seat in the Senate.

And the Republicans and the confused faux radical left MUST stop her by whatever means necessary including but not limited to BS'ing about her on DU.

Asalamalakum.

[election_2004]

55. So if Hillary's main priority was to serve the people of NY....

Why did the MSM begin touting her as a presidential candidate, the minute she walked into the Senate chamber in 2001?

And why did the Republican pundits and DINOs promptly follow suit?

[SaveElmer]

31. Hillary will be a formidible candidate...

If she decides to run, which I am not sure she will. If she does however, I believe she will win.

[mantis49]

32. I'm with you.

I would love to see Gore run. I also think he has an excellent chance. How many regret falling for the "stiff, boring" meme in 2000? Now they may look for real substance and he has it. I still consider him to be my president. If, of course, the MSM would do some honest reporting about his accomplishments and plans.

They want Hillary to be the nominee.

[FreedomAngel82]

33. Of course they are

It's because they think they can beat her. Remember the thing with Karl Rove is that he turns someone's strength into a weakness. So this could be what is going on. They could be using Hillary to make us go against our good canidates out there like Feingold, Kerry and any potential governors.

[iconoclastNYC]

39. YES - Corporate media is trying to create an aura of inevitability

And I'm firmly on board that elections are crooked, and why wouldn't the Republicans rig our primary vote to get the candidate the want on our ticket? This is called hedging your bets. If thier candidate loses they still win -- because with the bully puppit, she'll do what her hubby did, push our party to the right.

[hippiechick]

41. Yes. And I hope to hell we DON'T FALL FOR IT!

Love her to death, she's an amazing person, but I don't want her to run for Prez, yet.
Every misogynistic RWnut will crawl from their graves to vote against her.

[ChiciB1]

42. Here We Go Again!

The answer is Yes! It was yes 6 months ago, it was yes 3 months ago, it was yes 1 month ago, it was yes last week!

Repukes... salivating!

And let's Just Say NO!!!!!

[rasputin1952]

43. None of this makes any difference until after the '06 election...

and even then, I doubt that Hillary wil be the nominee. Everything depends on '06, and how it plays out. it is far too early to see where things will go, or even speculate on how things might go.

The MSM is 'pushing' this because they have nothing else. If she runs, I'll vote for her, regardless of who the D candidate, I will vote for him/her, it is as simple as that for me...:)

[mtnsnake]

45. I agree about Gore but disagree that Hillary's "been an embarrassment

to the Democratic party as of late".

If anything, she's been one of the most vocal anti-Bush people in the country as of late, attacking his policies on several different fronts. One of her most notable recent outbursts by her against Bush, concerning the ports fiasco, was followed up by her with proposed legislation to outlaw the sale of ports control to foreign countries.

She hasn't "been an embarrassment to the Democratic Party as of late" just because you say so. You could at least clarify with an example or two.

With Hillary at the top of the list of Democratic candidates, it should be a wake-up call to all of us how unimpressive our field of candidates is, starting with her at the top of the list and going right on down, one by one. There are lots of good people on it, but no one we can all collectively go wild about. The reason Al Gore's name keeps popping up is because there is no one else right now that we all have confidence in as much as we would with Gore. If someone else were to emerge from nowhere and turn us all on as a potential bonafide winner, Gore's name wouldn't be coming up all the time.

[joeprogressive]

50. My examples would start with voting for war

and end with renewing the patriot act. She votes whatever seems popular at the time. She is gutless and I don't trust her. I admire her in many ways but as previous posters have stated we need a true progressive. Now is not the time for Repub light.

[mtnsnake]

52. Ok but you said "as of late". On the war vote you cant just single her out

either. Here are a few others that you should also include "as being embarrassing" for that reason:

Baucus (D-MT)
Bayh (D-IN)
Biden (D-DE)
Breaux (D-LA)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Carnahan (D-MO)
Carper (D-DE)
Cleland (D-GA)
Daschle (D-SD)
Dodd (D-CT)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Edwards (D-NC)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Harkin (D-IA)
Hollings (D-SC)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kerry (D-MA)
Kohl (D-WI)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Lieberman (D-CT)
Lincoln (D-AR)
Miller (D-GA)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Reid (D-NV)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Schumer (D-NY)
Torricelli (D-NJ)

[joeprogressive]

76. Hmmmm, don't see Dean, Clark, Feingold or Gore on that list

I will not support anyone in the primary that voted for IWR, and I know 3 on that list that could not vote did not support the war anyway. The general election is another story. That is why we must knock Hillary out now. She is a distraction right now. I think she is capable and may be a viable candidate in 8 years but she has more work to do in the Senate to win me over that she is progressive enough.

[Blue_In_AK]

49. A Hillary nomination

would be the worst thing that could happen to us, IMO. The right hates her, the left doesn't trust her, and the middle would probably vote McCain, assuming he runs. It's a very, very bad idea.

[Digit]

57. Yes, because they know she can't win

I would LOVE to have a woman President, but NOT Senator Clinton.

Not now, anyway. She is too polarizing.

[Czolgosz]

58. Agreed

[Lydia Leftcoast]

60. The Republicans are acting as if Hillary's nomination is a done deal

"Oh, please, Democrats, whatever you do, don't throw me into that briar patch!"

Uh-huh.

[Minnesota Libra]

62. Repubs want you to eat your own and.......

....knowing Democrats it will work too. :wtf:

[spanone]

63. Sure they are. She's an easy target. She's a woman and a Clinton.

[Captain Hilts]

65. You were fine until the endorsement of Gore.

Gore just isn't that popular.

I worked in polling until recently.

[AtomicKitten]

71. here's an internet trend analysis that indicates otherwise

[Captain Hilts]

75. What's an "Internet Trend Analysis?" nt

[AtomicKitten]

78. It's from AmericaBlog.com - an analysis of internet buzz

What Al Gore's been up to
http://americablog.blogspot.com/

If you're watching Bill Maher, Graydon Carter, Editor of Vanity Fair, brought up a speech Al Gore has been giving around the country for the last few years. It's about global warming. I had the privilege, and I say that with all sincerity, of seeing it live. He recently gave a short version of the presentation at a conference and you can see it here: http://bbeplayer.com/Player/MediaPost/TVWatch/livestream/player.asp Scroll down below the player and click on his image on the right.

It's tagged Current TV, but he doesn't spend much time talking about it. He talks a little bit about the forces of change in the media landscape, defends a free Internet, consumer generated media (blogs and Current) and then (about 1/3 way through) he gets into global warming.

It's a fascinating presentation which is poorly captured here. This video doesn't show that Gore's presentation was much more like a Steve Jobs keynote than a politician's speech. If you want to see what I think that a Presidential stump speech is going to look like in the future, watch it.
http://bbeplayer.com/Player/MediaPost/TVWatch/livestream/player.asp

An interesting little analysis of how much buzz certain people are getting on the net. Check this out - it's a chart of Gore vs. Hillary vs. John Kerry.
http://www.blogpulse.com/trend?query1=Al+Gore&label1=Gore&query2=Hillary+Clinton&label2=Hillary&query3=John+Kerry&label3=Kerry&days=180&x=35&y=11

[Captain Hilts]

80. The Internet blog population is not indicative of the general US ...

population, and less so those who actually vote.

Internet blogs are favored by younger demographics - who are notorious for not voting.

[AtomicKitten]

82. Still I believe his popularity is more than you give him credit for.

It transcends party lines and ideologies (left of center). I think Americans would be glad to vote for someone not involved in enabling this disastrous administration with either their acquiescence or silence. I also think voters would love a chance to set right what went so terribly wrong in Florida in 2000.

But I realize that is my opinion as well as my most fervent wish for 2008.

[Captain Hilts]

85. I like Gore and LOVED his speech at DAR hall.

But not enough folks feel intensely about him.

[HeeBGBz]

73. He's popular as hell with me

He's not popular with the Pukes, that's for sure.

[joeprogressive]

77. I have to disagree

Despite a mediocre campaign and fraud in Florida, Gore beat Bush by over a half million votes. Also, since the election he has found his voice. He is a much better candidate today. Plus his ideas are very progressive.

[Vidar]

66. Yes

[blondeatlast]

67. Yes. It's to fire up the base and nothing more. nt

[Frank Cannon]

69. We need to start pushing Dan Quayle as the only serious successor...

to George Bush in 2008.

After all, Quayle's got looks, charisma, and experience as Vice President of the United States under the prior George Bush. He's a natural choice for the Republicans.

(I don't know why I'm saying all this, since I don't want to give any hints to the Republicans. If they actually DID nominate Dan Quayle, he'd be a shoo-in and we'd be sunk.)

[infogirl]

70. I agree totally...

Hillary is a big distraction. I myself ,have Bush/Clinton fatigue. Clinton stands with Bush 1 during Katrina, to say it is wrong to blame...and now wants the port deal to go through. He always conveludes our message. Hillary is NO different. We have Bush fatigue and I am sure the other side has Clinton has it as well. I do.

[HeeBGBz]

72. Very much so

To the point I really don't think it matters who WE want. I think the whole process is rigged.

[0007]

74. NO!

[radio4progressives]

79. become a media activist now (link)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2491109

[Disturbed]

81. It's not about Sen. Clinton.

It is about Bill Clinton. The RW and it's Corp Media are pushing her because the RW still hates Bill. No matter that he has been adopted by Poppy Bush. Pushing her generates the money and the hate. The RW hates Bill and pushing her reminds all of them that having him in the WH again would be shameful to them. Nevermind that he is actually Repub Lite. He played them and they will never forgive him for that.