Santorum MUST BE DEFEATED

[Hippo_Tron]

Okay, I'm getting incredibly annoyed that my argument is being flat out ignored in the Kate Michelman thread, so I'm starting my own.

I don't like Bob Casey either. I have a very hard time stomaching a candidate who is not only against a woman's right to choose but also against stem cell research. That being said, there is a much bigger issue here.

Seven simple words...

RICK SANTORUM PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES

This guy is a loon and he has his eye on the white house. If he loses this senate race his political career is over. If he wins it, he has a shot at becoming the most powerful man in the world.

Don't think it could happen? Think back to 2000 when you thought that a Governor of Texas with an IQ of about 20 who parades around pretending to be a southerner (when he's really from connecticut) with a fake ass accent would never be President.

Now think about the fact that unlike Shrub, Santorum would stand a chance in the debates. And also remember that Republicans don't need to actually appeal to voters, they just need to pain their opponents as godless communist America-haters.

President Santorum would appoint someone like Phill Kline as Attorney General and we would see women who have abortions and abortion doctors being rounded up by the justice department and charged with first degree murder.

Bob Casey may be hostile to women's rights, which is unfortunate. President Santorum would be the END of women's rights.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

1. good new thread.

I hope he does run for president. he is to the GOP what untreated toxic dumps are to day care center outdoor playgrounds.

[sandrakae]

24. He will, he will.

[roguevalley]

2. Ok

:evilgrin:

Truly. I can't wait to see him concede. It will be TREMENDOUS.

[Selatius]

3. Why isn't Chuck Pinnacchio the front-runner?

Is he too progressive?

He's the one on the fucking ground actually going out and talking to voters and communicating with people:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/11/21/132131/18

[...of J.Temperance]

5. Pinnacchio isn't the front-runner because he CAN'T win

Bob Casey Jr. CAN win....it's as simple as that so it is.

[Selatius]

7. Is it because Casey has better name recognition? Is that all?

I don't see how he could win on just the issues unless he had a bigger bankroll and better name recognition.

[IronLionZion]

41. see post 26, it's the "Casey magic"

just because he doesn't appeal to DU, doesn't mean it's the same for PA. All the right ingredients came together for Casey.

[Hippo_Tron]

8. He isn't the frontrunner because he doesn't have the money

Pennsylvania is too big and too expensive for someone relying soley on grassroots contributions to get his name out.

Under normal circumstances I would be raising more of an issue about this because Pennacchio does seem a lot like my hero Paul Wellstone. But this time, that isn't the case.

Casey is going to win the primary. If anything, he is the only candidate that matches Santorum's name recognition and also can match his fundraising which just absolutely kills Republicans since they almost always rely on having more money than dems.

For the good of the country, Casey MUST win.

[...of J.Temperance]

13. Bob Casey Jr. WILL win, he'll beat Rick Santorum

I cannot tolerate Rick Santorum and it's imperative that he's retired from the Senate.

[BigYawn]

51. On what evidence do you base your judgement?

Have you seen poll numbers in PA and such?
Are you from PA? I am in far away WA state
and have no clue of political realities in PA.

[IronLionZion]

26. establishment vs. grass roots

I like Chuck and will support him in the primaries. He has grass roots/net roots support. I wish Chuck would be our next Senator. He could be the next Wellstone or Feingold. They'll surely use the name Pennacchio against him and call him a liar with a long nose.

But Casey also has strong grass roots support amongst anti-choice and blue dog Dems, and establishment backing, and money, and the best name recognition of any candidate in this race. There are elderly people who don't know Santorum, but they sure as hell know Casey because of the wonderful things his father did for every issue except choice. Casey got more votes in 2004 than any candidate has ever got for any election in PA history. Many conservatives voted for Bush and Casey. Moderates/Liberals voted for Kerry and Casey. Casey appeals to the widest cross-section of demographics in PA.

It blows that he's anti-choice but we just have to deal with it. It certainly looks like he will be our next senator. Fortunately he's good for the Democratic core issues.

[Cosmocat]

48. As noted ...

PA is one of the big money Senate races ... These are not hard numbers, I would say representative guesses ...

Santoroum has like a 22 million dollar war chest ... Casey is at about 14 million ... Pennachio isn't even on the radar ... Even with Santorum severely wounded, he would be too tough and have FAR too many financial resources for Pennachio to beat him ... It would not even be close ... As is now, Casey needs to play his cards just right to make sure he gets the win ...

Just this week, I have had to have the ability to self regulate nearly a dozen times from rearending about a dozen buckwheats, religious goons or senile fools who had Santorum stickers on the back of their trucks/sedans ... I can tell you for a fact, only active democrats would have the first clue who Pennachio is ...

Look ... Casey is representative of the state ... Mildly socially conservative ... He has name recognition and he has the coin to win the way the system is set up now ... Again, this is a guy who won his last election with the greatest number of votes by any candidate in state history ...

He can say he was in favor of Alito ... Who really knows ... He may not be a raging liberal, but he is no Lieberman/Nelson ...

Bottom line, as many have noted, Santorum is a raging fruitcake, but also has has the chameleon like ability to front in whatever way is necessary to con the populace into getting him elected ... He is a VERY, VERY dangerous political operative, both in getting elected and in his governance ...

He HAS to go down, and the party, the state and country has to have the best possible candidate run against him ...

[RedXIII]

4. plus what he thinks of gay rights.....

by comparing gays to polygamists and child molesters.

[RedXIII]

19. And i think santurom is homophobic

because at a PFLAG meeting he darted out.

[IronLionZion]

28. I think Santorum is a self-hating gay homophobe

who tries too hard to hide it. He's a limp-wristed nancy boy if I ever saw one.

[BigYawn]

52. Unfortunately, so are majority of voters...

so that is not necessarily a losing formula.

[...of J.Temperance]

6. I'll give this thread a vote Hippo_Tron

Let's get your thread on the Greatest Page :)

On Edit: I don't think that Rick Santorum would get the Repuke 2008 nomination, that's for George Allen. However I agree with a lot of your comments.

[Hippo_Tron]

9. Thx for your help

[...of J.Temperance]

15. That's okay :)

n/t

[Ignacio Upton]

10. He would be their VP

Even a VP Santorum is bad

[IronLionZion]

27. It would be an all-Virginian ticket

:P

[Hippo_Tron]

43. Which is unconstitutional

VP and POTUS nominee can't be from the same state. If Santorum and Allen try to run together we need to take that to court.

[Hippo_Tron]

12. The fundies LOVE him

I'm not saying that he's a shoe-in for the nomination but I think that he has just as good of a shot as George Allen or anyone for that matter. Either way I don't want to find out and that's why he needs to be defeated NOW so that we don't have to worry about defeating him later.

[...of J.Temperance]

14. I agree regarding the Fundies

I just think that the Repuke 2008 ticket will be George Allen and South Carolina Governor Mark Sanford, the Fundies worship them.

We have to retire Rick Santorum from the Senate, I'm tired of his screeching and ranting against abortion and his offensive and sick rants against gay people. Heck I wish we could retire Orrin Hatch as well.

[tinfoilinfor2005]

11. Imus just drools over Santorum, whichs actually surprises me

because Imus usually has a pretty good bull-shit-o-meter.

[globalvillage]

16. Imus loves McCain

Who, IMO, is a total nut job in addition to being an ass-kisser and a weak and nasty little man.
So, I disagree.

[tinfoilinfor2005]

17. Yeah, that's true.

But he also likes Jon Stewart and Bill Maher and Keith Olberman and Tom Oliphant and David Gregory and Joe Biden, so he is all over the map. But Santorum? There is no excuse for that.

[globalvillage]

23. I agree with you re Santorum

But I'm finding McCain equally vile the more I learn about him.

For you.
:-)

[GoneOffShore]

18. As a Pennsylvanian I have to agree

Santorum, the man, not the substance, makes my blood boil.

I'm not totally happy with Bob Casey, but he will and can make a difference in DC.

I'd rather see Sandals or Pennachio get the nod, but they would lose this one and then the President Santorum scenario could come into play. (Even with alll of little Ricky's ethical problems.)

K&R

[GoneOffShore]

20. And another kick

[niyad]

21. you should WARN a body before you print words like that!!!! I nearly spit

out my wine all over my keyboard!!! cripes, what an evil, ugly thought, ewwwwww.

[blondeatlast]

22. Let Michelman run in the primary and make an incredibly strong message

about women's health rights--I'm all for her doing that.

But to run as a third party candidate is hypocritical (she nuked Nader, and rightly so IMHO, for doing the same thing) and dangerous in a race this important.

We need every seat we can get to get bills past committees and so we have a chance to bring justice to this traitorous administration.

And as you say, how does Vice President Santorum sound (I don't see hime on the top iof the ticket--YET)?

SANTORUM MUST GO. PERIOD.

[killerbush]

25. Kate Michaelmen

Would be just as bad. She is a one issue candidate, and people who are one issue candidates usually are ineffective Washington Congresspeople.

[IronLionZion]

29. Sick Rick has a very special relationship with K street lobbyists

His fucking PAC pays for groceries, Wal-mart purchases, Starbucks coffee, gas, just about any household need is paid for.

His fucking charity, Operation Good Neighbor, is among the lowest rated charities ranked by the Better Business Bureau. His senate staff is also the charity staff. They pay themselves exorbitant salaries and perks for a non-profit.

His only income on the books is his $162,000 Senate salary, yet his estate in Leesburg, VA is worth at least $800,000 and his empty 1-bedroom house in Penn Hills is not capable of supporting his family of 8.

The Penn Hills school district paid for his kids to go to cyber charter school.

The sheer level of corruption with tricky ricky is just disgusting. His cunning and speaking skills make him more dangerous than shrub.

I hate that piece of shit. He simply must be defeated...by anyone. That bastard just has to go.

I bet he's a member of Opus Dei too.

[GoneOffShore]

33. I believe he's

been outed as a member of Opus Dei.

[IronLionZion]

38. yup

http://www.natcath.com/NCR_Online/archives/011802/011802f.htm

When asked about it, he claims he strongly supports and admires the founder, Josemaria Escriva, but is not a member.

[election_2004]

30. Casey should express a willingness to meet liberals halfway

Bob Casey doesn't need to become a poster boy for NARAL or GLAAD, but he needs to express that, if given the honor of becoming Pennsylvania's new junior U.S. Senator, he needs to embrace the concept of compromise and at least be open to supporting early-term abortion access and same-sex civil unions (even if he personally finds these things objectionable).

He's supposed to be representing all Pennsylvanians, not just himself.

And he'll ultimately be making decisions that affect ALL Americans, not just cultural conservatives in Pennsylvania.

[IronLionZion]

39. Actually many gay groups are supporting Casey

his views on gay rights might not be liberal by Massachusetts standards, but they sure are liberal for Pennsylvania. His explanation is that while his faith doesn't agree with homosexuality, gays are still his constituents and deserve rights.

[radio4progressives]

31. Whatever happened to Santarum being so low in the polls after Schiavo?

I mean i thought that guy tanked a long time ago, what has he done to rehabilitate his credibility or popularity?

[Mnemosyne]

32. The K Street Project has got to be pushed to take

this scum down. I'm afraid it's the only thing that can or will.

Specter won with 64 out of the 67 counties. He had over 50% more votes than his opponent in all but 3 of those counties!

Does this not smell to anyone else as much as it does to me?!

I cannot stomach any Casey. Need a transplant? How convenient if a perfect match prison donor happens to die/be murdered in prison 3 weeks after you find out.

But if need be I will hold my nose and vote for one.

Pennachio is my choice also.

The entire country needs to help us stop Scumtorum here in Pa. It isn't just a Pa. problem. He will fuck the entire country worse than he is now.

[Sparkly]

34. I'm giving this a K&R because the power of myth can't be overestimated.

As you say, Hippo, when I saw Chimp defeating McCain in the primaries, I held my heart in HORROR at the notion of this rightwing shill becoming preznit, but tried to reassure myself. "He's WAY too stupid. He has a HORRIBLE record in Texas. Gore will SLAY him in the debates."

But nevertheless -- despite the fact that he IS way too stupid, had a horrible record in Texas, and was slain by Gore in the debates --here we are.

So I don't put anything past them -- if the machinery gets behind a candidate (the more empty and dishonest the better), they can be propped up, packaged, and sold to masses of ignorant, insecure, selfish, and/or fearful people. It could be Santorum, Gingrich, or some governor in an empty suit somewhere -- doesn't matter. They could sell a sack of shit as president and people would buy it.

It's the power of myth, and we can't put ANYthing past them.

[Douglas Carpenter]

35. I'm no fan of Casey but Santorum MUST be defeated...

I had donated to Chuck Pinnacchio and I wish Chuck Pinnacchion was the front runner. But he is not.

Bob Casey will almost certainly be the Democratic nominee and the only one capable of stopping Santorum.

This is simply how it is.

[PittLib]

36. I hate Santorum ...

to be sure. That being said, I have a laundry list on Casey that nearly rivals Santorum's - which I will gladly post for y'all in the very near future. I don't think you'll feel so warm and fuzzy about the annointed one once you know where he stands ... or more importantly, who is standing behind him. Follow the money ...

Unfortunately, as much as I'd like to expound right now ... I have an all-day interview tomorrow for a fellowship program. And I have Chuck Pennacchio to thank in part for the opportunity.

[Hippo_Tron]

42. Yea, but Casey isn't seeking the white house

This is a situation where I'd vote in another Republican if it were necessary to beat Santorum. With Casey we at least get the added benefit of a dem caucus vote. But even if that were not the case, somebody needs to defeat Santorum so that his presidential hopes are destroyed. I'd prefer that it be Chuck Pennachio but barring a miracle I don't think that he will win the primary.

If ANTYING, the one key difference between Casey and Santorum is that one is seeking the white house and the other is not.

[AndyA]

37. Women need to band together, organize, and they could stop this

After everything women have had to fight for over the years, I now see them losing so much of it to these Repugnant fools. Where do the Republican women stand on these issues? I know many vote the way their husbands tell them to vote, as if they don't have a mind (or brain) of their own.

Honestly, some women seem to give up the thought process when they get married. They just let their husbands call the shots. They vote the way their husbands tell them to vote. Personally, as a man, I find that horrifying. If a man must have a wife that doesn't think for herself, then he's obviously very insecure about himself.

Women have a lot of power, they need to use it now - while they have it - before it's taken away from them. The process has already started.

[IronLionZion]

40. Casey is not going to vote for radical right-wing judges

but Santorum does all the time. Look, we have had a reactionary Opus Dei lunatic as Senator for the last 12 years and abortion is still legal despite his best efforts to kill it. Trust me, you do NOT want Sick Rick as our president. Knowing him, he'll probably pick Alan Keyes for VP.

There are many other issues affecting Americans every damn day. Americans suffer because of criminals like Rick Santorum and his lobbyist cronies.

[PittLib]

45. Um ...

Casey said he would have supported Alito ... so I'm not sure where you are getting your information.

[IronLionZion]

47. Um...

and Santorum actually did vote for Alito.

The situation will be quite different if Dems have a majority, or we have a Dem president to appoint judges. If President Gore nominates liberal judges, don't you think Senator Casey will vote for them?

Look, I know you support Chuck Pennacchio and I do too. But seriously, Casey is not the big bad conservative that DUers like you make him out to be. There are a lot of important issues at stake here.

[IndianaGreen]

49. Casey endorsed Alito!

And he made a big public thing about it too!

[IronLionZion]

53. Santorum voted for Alito!

and is an all-around corrupt criminal!

I'd rather have a socially conservative Democrat than a reactionary Republican crook who robs old people though his fraudulent charity and uses his PAC to pay for his household expenses. Merely defeating Santorum is not enough for me. He needs to go to prison.

On the bright side, check out the Texas primary results. Ciro Rodriguez is kicking ass and taking names.

[IndianaGreen]

54. Democrats voted for abortion ban in South Dakota!

Casey is prowar, pro-Alito, anti-gay rights. He is Santorum without the mental illness!

[IronLionZion]

55. Greens don't vote!

because they don't win the big elections!

guns, god, and gays are Republican-exploited wedge issues. What about education, economy, healthcare, social security, unions, national security, fiscal responsibility, and all those other issues that affect Americans every day?

It would absolutely rock my world if Chuck Pennacchio won but it doesn't look like he has a chance. Casey can win. And he's no Rick Santorum.

oh man, I have such intense animosity towards Sick Rick that words can not describe. That piece of shit just has to go. :grr:

[IndianaGreen]

56. I am not Green, so can shove that argument!

As a woman, I don't want an anti-choice candidate win any election anywhere!

[iconoclastNYC]

44. Casey bothers me.

But we can replace him in the next primary with a better Democrat if he fails us.

[SaveElmer]

57. Boils down to this really...

Which would you prefer?

Bob Casey in a Democratic controlled Senate?

or

Rick Santorum in a Republican controlled one?

If it takes supporting Bob Casey to get Ted Kennedy re-installed as chairman of the Judiciary committe, it would be well worth it in my opinion!

[Douglas Carpenter]

58. Kennedy as Senate Judiciary Chair/Conyers as House Judiciary Chair

That's what a majority in both Houses would mean.

[karynnj]

46. I buy your argument and it is compelling

Even now you have idiots (like Imus) who constantly says what a likable guy he is, even though he disagrees with him on almost everything.

I like Teresa Heinz Kerry's description of him as "Forrest Gump with Attitude".

That thread is incredibly insane.

[dajoki]

50. ALL I WILL SAY IS: SANTORUM MUST GO!!

[mrgorth]

59. Chuck is from Bucks County

Yet, at the Bucks County Dems endorsement meeting he lossed our endorsement to Casey. If Chuck can't convince a room full of raging dems to vote for him you think he'll fair well in the T? Casey supports sex education, and availability to contraception INCLUDING making the morning after pill OTC medication. He is nowhere near Sanitarium and anyone who says he is is delusional.