"Crash" deserved the award

[FreedomAngel82]

Why? One simple reason: more people can relate to sterotyping and rascism than they can being gay. I as a straight woman may never know what it's like to live a life of a gay person. I love men and don't have any plan of changing. Of course I don't know the future but "Crash" deals with a universal theme. I saw this movie last week in my sociology class and it was beautiful. I loved how all the characters seemed to just intertwine together. One event after another. It was a very liberal movie and dealt with emotions and hardships people deal with of being different and always being accused. The rapper/actor Ludacrious character in the movie was even totally paranoid and thought whenever someone did something he didn't like to him they were being rascists and he had all these wild-eye theories. There's other things in there as well such as that. And Matt Dillion's character was a rascists bigot who learned how to change from a life-threatning experience with a person who he hurt before in the film. So for those of you dissing "Crash" I suggest you check out the film. It's a very beautiful movie and features all sorts of people who your average every day person can relate to. "Brokeback Mountain" got a shit load of awards where as "Crash" got one. So for those of you thinking it's some huge consperiacy I say please grow up.

[davidinalameda]

1. love isn't a universal theme?

go figure

:shrug:

[FreedomAngel82]

8. No read it again

Being GAY and feeling that isn't a universal theme. How many people do you know who will experience feelings for someone of the same sex as compared to rascism and sterotyping?

[WildEyedLiberal]

17. Um, Brokeback Mountain ISN'T about being gay

The theme isn't homosexuality, but rather a universal one: not being able follow your heart can crush your soul. It just happened to have two male protagonists.

I could relate, and I'm straight... because dwickham is right, it's about love.

Movies win Oscars for being good movies, not for making political statements. Either Crash or Brokeback Mountain would have been worthy because they are both good films (and yes both have universal themes).

[FreedomAngel82]

25. Oh really?

So why did the author have two gay men instead of another straight couple? Sure you can say it's about love, no denying that, but in the end they still had two gay men who fell in love with each other.

[WildEyedLiberal]

33. Why do you keep insisting that their gayness is so important?

What does it matter if it was a hetero or homosexual couple? Does it affect the quality of the love they share? Do gay people love differently or not as completely as straight people?

The ENTIRE POINT of the movie is that people fall in love, and when people who love each other are kept apart by forces beyond their control, everyone gets hurt. The POINT is that gay couples are NO DIFFERENT in their love than heterosexual couples. Why do you insist that they are?

[FreedomAngel82]

45. Go back to my original post and read it

[WildEyedLiberal]

61. I did, I disagree with you

I can relate perfectly well to the struggle in Brokeback Mountain. Their homosexuality is irrelevant to the love they shared. You need to stop implying that people who raise cogent points in response to your thread need to reread your OP. We can all read just fine, thank you. We disagree with you. Saying "read the OP" a thousand times isn't displaying much of an ability to debate your point well.

[Name removed]

65. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mirabeau]

180. I agree with you.

At the end of the movie I had the feeling of wishing it had ended differently. I had the same feeling at the end of "Dr. Zhivago" and "Gone With the Wind".

[fishwax]

welcome to DU

:hi:

[Divine Discontent]

122. why do you focus on their gay aspect

when, it's about TIME we had a love story that involves two men that deals with love in this manner. The movie shouldn't be about "well it's about two gay men", as that is segragating it totally, although it would obviously have it's differences because it does, yes, involve gays, but the heartbreaking love lost is universal. Crash won no major awards prior to this for a reason, I'd think!

[FreedomAngel82]

126. Because it's nothing new

See 1978's "Making Love."

[Karenca]

134. it wasn't released in 1978...it was 1982.

[fishwax]

218. why did the author have two gay men? Why not?

:shrug:

I don't know a single straight person who had trouble relating to the film. Just like most gay people I've known weren't completely flabbergasted and confused an unable to relate when watching When Harry Met Sally.

[Erika]

26. Agreed 100%.

However, I think Hollywood caved to the WH PC group.

It's OK to show compassion to racial problems, but let's leave gay problems for another day or decade.

[WildEyedLiberal]

39. Hollywood doesn't cater to a political agenda.

When Hollywood starts picking Best Picture winners based on the political issue du jour, I'll stop watching the Oscars.

Brokeback was an excellent movie and would have deserved an Oscar accordingly - but giving it an Oscar *because* it's about gay people defeats the entire point the film made, which was that, gay or straight, love is universal.

Let's keep politics out of movie awards shows, ok?

[Erika]

68. Hollywood became a PC group

after they got the message about Dixie Chicks. They got it big time. Thinking otherwise, is totally naive.

[WildEyedLiberal]

74. That's completely inane

What the fuck do the Dixie Chicks have to do with anything? Do they make movies?

[Harper_is_Bush]

78. And yet, more than one thread here claims it didn't win due to homophobia.

go figure.

[Maddy McCall]

131. Worse, this one justifies it.

[Divine Discontent]

138. LOL

Oh gosh, MADDY, that's RICH!!! I started the original thread about it not winning, and you just won the award for best post of the YEAR SO FAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Maddy McCall]

144. Thank you, martyred...

There's plenty to work with in this thread, though. :D

[FreedomAngel82]

147. Yep you guys are real progressive and mature

[davidinalameda]

188. it's more universal than people are willing to admit

[mtnsnake]

2. Amen and nominated!

Now pass me a little popcorn!

[billkurtmeyer]

3. Well said! Besides the RW cooks won't know what to say! This years ......

Academy Awards were a very well planned but subtle slam in their faces in my humble estimation!

[murielm99]

71. I agree with your humble estimation.

My son was here earlier on an errand. He wanted to know what won best picture, and nothing else. He taped it to see later. I told him what you said. There was no shouting Michael Moore, but the subtlety will needle them more.

[AtomicKitten]

4. I agree. I've watched it a few times.

It has such depth and complexity and was really well executed.

[Caoimhe]

12. THE little girl and the cloak knocks me for a loop every time

[AtomicKitten]

22. And just when you think you've seen the dregs of humanity ...

you see what's in the white truck. The prejudice ricocheting among the minorities was breathtaking.

And the innocence and blind trust of the little girl in her invisible cloak makes you wonder just where the human race lost its humanity.

[FreedomAngel82]

31. Oh yes

I loved that too and I love how EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER learns something new about themselves that can be applied to our daily lives. It gives me hope for reality and the world.

[AtomicKitten]

47. And the journey each character takes is so painful, the ending bittersweet

You feel a sense of relief at the end, but still sadness.

[FreedomAngel82]

58. Right

I still felt bad for that one cop though with his mother who lost his brother. :( I wonder what happened to him.

[AtomicKitten]

113. he compromised his integrity to save his brother,

though it was for naught, yet he allowed his mother her fantasy of her other more precious albeit felonious now dead son.

[FreedomAngel82]

119. You mean with the groceries right?

[AtomicKitten]

124. Right.

He had just compromised his integrity in going along with the story the police wanted to tell about the shoot-out between the two cops (they had offered him the insulting minority quota advancement), but he did it because of the third three-strikes-you're-out warrant out on his brother. And then his mom brags about the younger son having brought groceries. He didn't have the heart to tell her the truth. Even though he had made something of his life, his mother preferred the younger son and just didn't know the truth about him. And he was the good son for biting his lip and not telling her the truth.

Every relationship was so complex, so sad, so messed up.

[FreedomAngel82]

129. But somehow every thing they did

ended up intertwining with each other. I did feel bad for that cop. :( I wonder why his mother didn't care about him. She seemed very sad about him going and making a life for himself even though he still went home and visited with her and brought her groceries etc.

[AtomicKitten]

133. it's one of the frustrating nonconnections between parent and child

I have one myself with my mother. I guess that's why I recognized it.

[FreedomAngel82]

30. Do you mean when she runs to save her father?

I thought that part was the best and than when he gives her the cloak as well.

[fooj]

125. It got me, too.

Peace.

[mtnsnake]

32. Same here. I've seen it 2 times & can't wait to see it again.

It's worth watching the movie more than once just to see that totally engrossing scene with Matt Dillon and the burning car with Thandie Newton in it. Talk about gripping! And how about the scene with the Hispanic locksmith, his daughter, and the gunman?

I think htis movie will go on to be one of the most talked about movies in recent times.

[AtomicKitten]

60. reminds me of an Altman film

but more subtle and complex.

[Bluebear]

5. So Puff Daddy is higher art than Debussy, more can 'relate' to it.

:(

[FreedomAngel82]

10. No that isn't what I said please learn to read people

I said more people know what it's like to have sterotyping and rascism than they do about being gay. Can't you people freakin read? And at the end Ludacrious' character ends up helping some other people and showing kindness towards them and learns lessons as well.

[Maven]

35. Why does that matter?

So majority rule = better movie? Why didn't they just make a movie about white people in America? I'm sure more people could "relate."

[FreedomAngel82]

38. No once again that isn't what I said

*sigh* Good grief people.

[Bluebear]

123. Well OK that's clear enough.

?

[Chipper Chat]

217. "You people" ???????

Hmmmm - I'm getting a clue here.

[Maddy McCall]

34. I was going to make a similar point.

:thumbsup:

I don't think Academy members consider what "more people can relate to" when they vote.

Just like the OP's own thesis is fallacy, because it's the prejudice, not "being gay," that people should understand.

Prejudice has certainly been exhibited toward Brokeback.

[FreedomAngel82]

40. So tell me than why did BBM when a SHIT LOAD of awards?

Tell me that? You might have something if they didn't win anything but they won a shit load where as "Crash" ONLY WON ONE AWARD THE WHOLE NIGHT! GET OVER IT PEOPLE!

[Maddy McCall]

57. You didn't even see Brokeback Mountain, so your opinion is null.

You can't say which film was better because you haven't even SEEN Brokeback Mountain.

Wow. Anger problem? Melodrama much?

[FreedomAngel82]

63. Same reason to the people who haven't seen "Crash" and whining

"Crash" only won one damn award where as BBM won a shit load of others. My opinion is just as valid as anyone else's. So if you don't like it tough shit. Go away than.

[Karenca]

73. How can you say one movie is so much better than the other if you refuse

to see it?
That is weird.

[FreedomAngel82]

76. You obviously can't read either

I said I didn't care to. I didn't say I refused to. I could care less to see BBM since it isn't relevant to my life. Now if it comes on HBO I might check it out depending on what's going on in my life at that time. Other wise I'm not going to waste money going out to see it when I might not even like it and that's money down the drain I could've used for something else. The only reason why I saw "Crash" is because I saw it last week in my sociology class and I'm even thinking about buying it (note the key word is thinking). And it's not weird and if you don't like my opinion tough shit.

[Maddy McCall]

81. Regardless of what your reason is for not seeing Brokeback, if you haven't

seen it, you are in no way qualified to say which film is better.

Why is that so hard for you to understand? That would be like me saying that chicken tastes better than beef, yet I've never eaten beef.

[FreedomAngel82]

89. So the people whining about "Crash" who haven't seen it should now

shut up too right? Are you going to tell them to shut up next?

[Maddy McCall]

98. Point me to one person "whining about 'Crash'" who admits to...

not having seen it?

I'm not telling you to shut up; I'm just pointing out to you how ridiculous it is for you to claim some kind of authority on the topic, which is what you insinuate in your OP.

[FreedomAngel82]

106. Riiight

In case you missed it this is an opinion post on a message board. No where is there any type of authority.

[WildEyedLiberal]

82. Insulting people is against DU's rules

If you are incapable of responding to people civilly, you need to get away from DU for awhile. You've accused about 5 people of "not being able to read" so far. Seriously, take a break before you get banned for attacking everyone in sight. It's not worth it.

[Name removed]

87. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FreedomAngel82]

90. Riiight and you coming into the thread I started and telling me my

opinion is now unimportant and I'm not allowed to have any voice about a movie? Riiight.

[Maddy McCall]

93. You haven't seen the movie. Therefore, your opinion is of zero value.

You can't compare the two, because you have only seen one of the movies.

Have you not taken Logic 101 in college?

[FreedomAngel82]

104. Riiight

And you can right? Have you or have you not seen both movies? If not you should shut up too.

[Maddy McCall]

114. Yes, I've seen both movies.

I liked them both. Actually, I saw all four. My personal taste doesn't always agree with the Academy.

You need to settle down. Why do you have so much emotion invested in this?

[Chipper Chat]

220. Could "John Rocker Syndrome" be in play here?

You know - hates gays so much because he secretly loves them.

[FreedomAngel82]

137. In case you missed it this is about an awards show

[Erika]

105. You haven't seen BB Mountain but give a review

You saw one gay movie so you've seen them all?

Is that right? That's what you said.

[FreedomAngel82]

111. Good grief people!

This post is why I thought "Crash" deserved the award. Not about anything else. I did not give a review of BBM. Stop putting words in my fucking mouth!

[mtnsnake]

120. AFAIC, you've handled yourself just fine in this entire thread

:toast:

[donheld]

176. If you never saw BBM, then in my opinion you have NO business

saying any movie deserved to win over it. Whether it be Deuce Bigelow or Crash.

[mtnsnake]

108. I don't think that's true at all. She seems pretty rational to me

considering the pounding she's getting for simply stating her opinion.

[Karenca]

92. Why are you so angry?

oy vay

[Maddy McCall]

77. So it's a "fairness" issue to you? Crash should win best movie...

because it's the underdog?

Should have said that in your OP, as well as mentioned that YOU HAVE NOT EVEN SEE BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN.

You've jumped your justification from "more people can relate to it" to now that "BBM won a shitload of awards."

You make absolutely no sense.

[FreedomAngel82]

86. And neither do the people whining about BBM losing

"Oh the Academy hates gay people! They're homophobic! They caved to the conservatives!" Bullshit. So when has any person who's whining about "Crash" winning said they saw the movie? I have not jumped around on anything and I'd appreciate you not making false accusations.

[Maddy McCall]

91. Would you consider yourself homophobic?

What's your reason for abstaining from an Academy-Award-nominated film? Why are you so adamant about not watching Brokeback Mountain?

Even though you probably don't mean to, you posted some things in this thread that seem homophobic, or at least exhibit some kind of disdain for gay people.

You need to look inside to figure out what causes your revulsion to Brokeback, so much so that you refuse to watch an Oscar-nominated film.

:shrug:

[FreedomAngel82]

101. Well gee why do I not watch violent movies?

Because they don't intrest me. I like comedy, drama, action (no violence or war movies). I don't care to see BBM. I've seen plenty of movies like that film including a movie made in 1978 called "Making Love" which has the same theme only no cowboys. It's JUST like it.

[Karenca]

110. Its not a violent movie. Its a love story.

So you've seen plenty of movies like Brokeback?
Could you please name a few? I'de be very interested.

[FreedomAngel82]

115. Once again people

I do not care to see romantic movies. I'm not a big fan on romance for my own personal reason's. I enjoy comedy, drama and some action (with no violence/war). Same reason's why I do not care to see films like "Brokeback Mountain." They do not intrest me! I only saw "Crash" because my sociology teacher brought it last week for us to view and I decided to stay and watch it and I enjoyed it. This post is about why I thought it was worthy of winning the Oscar. THAT'S IT!

[Divine Discontent]

139. she appears uneducated, and that's not a slam, just fact

"for my own personal reason's. " reasons is a plural word, it doesn't need an apostrophe.

she's made many post with grammar errors, I take her as just misguided, young, somewhat uneducated and with a touch of homophobia.

May I tell you all a little story?

A friend of mine said she didn't hate homosexuals. Until I moved in and she told me when I said I was thinking of bringing a boyfriend over and said, "you're not doing anything in my apartment!"

She had her own room. True colors come out. This young woman is well meaning, but ignorant about some things in life, and when she gets burnt by "love", she'll perhaps watch BBM one day and see how it makes her cry.

bless her...

[LincolnMcGrath]

145. "she's made many post with grammar errors"

If you are going to nitpick, you might want to proof your own post a little better. :hi:

[FreedomAngel82]

154. HOW DARE YOU!

How dare you seem to know about me when you don't know anything about me!

[fishwax]

223. so you just don't like romantic movies at all?

where did you say that before? You say "once again people," as though you'd repeated it throughout this thread, but in just reading the posts in this thread, I see no mention of you not liking romantic movies, only that you didn't want to see BBM and it wasn't relevant to your life b/c you aren't gay and have no plans to change. The latter can come off as homophobic, b/c it gives the impression that somehow no straight person relate to anything so bizarre as a romance b/w two guys. Had you said "I just don't like romance movies, gay, straight, or otherwise," it might have sounded different.

[wiley]

157. BBM is a violent movie

Lots of men get killed for being gay. Like Crash, it's a great movie. I'm glad it won. However, it didn't "deserve" to win anymore than any of the other films. BBM is a love story as well. I like your question. There are others kind of like it, but they have NEVER been played in any major theatre chain.

[Maddy McCall]

112. LOL! You are so utterly uninformed.

I pity your naivete.

[FreedomAngel82]

117. And you're being a jerk so what?

[Divine Discontent]

140. yes, I pity her comments, also. they've been painful. n/t

[FreedomAngel82]

155. AND SO HAVE YOURS ON ME!

Treating me like I'm SHIT!

[Bluebear]

149. Making Love is not JUST LIKE 'Mountain' by a long shot

Look what happens to one of the main characters at the end, oh yeah you didn't see it :)

[fishwax]

221. how do you know Making Love is JUST like it

when you haven't seen BBM?

[kdpeters]

230. Actually, your opinion isn't as valid if it's less informed.

and if you haven't seen Brokeback Mountain, then your opinion is less informed and therefore, less valid than someone who has seen both.

I don't mean that personally toward you, but it's a particular peeve of mine when people expect respect for their opinions just because they have one. For example, if you've never had a deep down, burninig unquenchable desire for someone of the same sex, then your opinion that homosexuality is a choice is not as valid as someone who has experienced falling in love with someone of the same sex.

Likewise, if you haven't seen Brokeback Mountain, just admit that you can't speak to whether or not Crash was a better movie deserving of the Oscar.

[Karenca]

6. I think it's a"huge conspiracy"

I think Hollywood was afraid to piss off too many people
and
I also think that's why Reese Witherspoon won over Felicity Huffman.

[AtomicKitten]

7. are you seroius?

Hollywood LOVES pissing off the RW.

Seriously, there is NO conspiracy. Just difference of opinion. Don't get so emotionally involved. It's just the Oscars for crissakes.

[billkurtmeyer]

9. Get over the gay thing - now with that said I'm the biggest supporter of

gay rights, but Crash was a remarkable movie. Watch it several times and get back to me.

[Karenca]

13. Once should be enough, no?

[FreedomAngel82]

11. You're not serious are you?

Reese is a wonderful actress and "Walk the Line" is a great movie.

[Karenca]

14. I love Reese

and Walk the Line was my favorite movie.
Im serious.

[Erika]

15. Brokeback Mountain showed the homophobists against gay

lovers and the damage done to the gays by these sexual orientation bigots. Hollywood caved.

Crash is a chocolate show with a vanilla overcast. It appears it is now PC to rally for racism while being intolerant against gays. Backbroke Mountain had the depth and the acting skill that Crash could only hope for. That being said, at least Hollywood is showing some kind of political spine.

[Karenca]

19. Yes Hollywood caved. NT

[Divine Discontent]

142. Hollywood Caved!!!!!!!! n/t

[Caoimhe]

20. it seems if you cared about it so much you'd get the name right

not Backbroke but Brokeback



sigh

[RagingInMiami]

198. Was that post the straw that broke the camel's back?

[FreedomAngel82]

21. Oh please

Have you ever seen "Crash"?? BBM won a shit load of movies compared to "Crash" winning O-N-E. So please give me a break.

[AtomicKitten]

27. I think some people emotionally invest in movies and

aren't capable of critical analysis.

They do it with Olympic skaters and politicians and movie stars.

Silly really. And really no big deal. Yet out come the tin foil hats and accusations.

[Erika]

44. What an empty life if we didn't invest in issues.

Maybe why we now have W in the WH.

[AtomicKitten]

54. um, movies are make believe.

[Erika]

88. But we spend the $ and buy the popcorn

for some reason. Some invest, others enjoy.

[AtomicKitten]

103. I just don't see why people are getting pissy arguing.

What counts is what you like. That's all that matters. People take away different things from movies.
But my opinion isn't worth any more than yours or anybody else's. I loved the Constant Gardener, but it wasn't even nominated. Go figure.

[WildEyedLiberal]

24. "Hollywood caved"

What an asinine thing to say. This is as bad as freepers suggesting that every Hollywood movie has a "political" agenda... the sad thing is, some of you WANT the Oscars to be about political agendas. I think it should be about good movies.

Brokeback Mountain and Crash were both good movies, and both would have been worthy. Implying that the Academy is a political institution obligated to pander to a political agenda is insulting and stupid and misses the entire point of the awards.

[FreedomAngel82]

36. Very well stated

The movie "Crash" could have won simply because those who voted liked it better whether the acting, directing, the theme, etc. Whatever their purpose. And yes I'm tired too of people wanting the Oscars to be nothing but politics. You have to escape reality sometime and I don't know a better way than watching a movie. Of course sometimes you can use the movies to put out a message or something like with "To Kill a Mockingbird" and "Nixon" and "Hotel Rawanda" for example but other times it's just a good movie.

[AtomicKitten]

109. I've got to stand with you on this.

IMO tin foil hats don't belong in the same room as movie critques.

[Lautremont]

16. The award isn't for how many people could relate to the movie.

It's for how good the movie was, regardless of theme, and Brokeback Mountain was a better movie, I thought. But no accounting for taste and all that.

[GRLMGC]

18. Umm well

I disagree. I think this whole controversy is absurd because both were good movies. Frankly, I was shocked that Crash won over Brokeback Mountain. They were both good movies. I don't think its a conspiracy but I don't think that the Academy is necessarily obligated to give the award to the movie people can supposedly relate to more. Had Brokeback Mountain won, it would have deserved the win as well.

[FreedomAngel82]

23. The only reason why I was expecting BBM is two reason's

1) They won a shit load of movies throughout the evening and the only other movie that won as much as them was "Geisha Girl."

2) All the hype around the movie.

From the clips, to me personally, the film looked boring. There was only one clip I enjoyed and that was with Michelle Williams (who I really do like as an actress). I loved "Crash" and could relate to it so much more than I ever could BBM.

[GRLMGC]

28. Its Memoirs of a Geisha

Its not a boring movie. It's just a love story about loss and I think many can relate to that. Crash was good and deserved its award but Brokeback Mountain would have been worthy too.

[FreedomAngel82]

48. I know the name of the movie it's called shortening the title

:eyes:

[GRLMGC]

52. It deserves to be called by its rightful name

no matter how crappy of a movie it was. Geisha Girl sounds insulting

[FreedomAngel82]

72. Well too bad

I'm on an internet message board. I'm not writing for an article or any such thing. Stop being the damn thought police.

[GRLMGC]

75. Are you capable of having a civil conversation?

because if this thread is any evidence, then you are clearly not.

[Maddy McCall]

83. She's not.

[FreedomAngel82]

94. So you coming in here and telling me my opinions don't matter is right?

Get off your damn high horse.

[Maddy McCall]

100. Go watch Brokeback and get back to me.

Then maybe what you say will matter. Right now, it doesn't.

[FreedomAngel82]

121. Riiight

So now you're the person who can decide who can talk on a message board or not right? You're the police? So why are you in this thread then? To nothing but attack me.

[Divine Discontent]

148. I don't want her to see it

until she falls in love and gets BURNT. and maybe also after she goes to school and gets an education in social discourse and english.

[FreedomAngel82]

162. How dare you!

How dare you tell me what films I can watch. YOU'RE ASSHOLES!

[Divine Discontent]

146. the more I read....

the more you are easy to read. you're thought process is rather troubling and mean spirited appearing, and I really don't think you want to give that appearance.


hmmm.. nothing I can suggest. Change is up to you. Go see BBM when you fall in love and get burnt. until then, understand why so many people, since you haven't seen it, felt it was w/o question the picture of the year. It's about love lost, and it was done painfully (in a good way)

[GRLMGC]

156. hahaha

"Geisha Girl". It's priceless.

[Name removed]

164. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[GRLMGC]

Aww

that really hurt me :sarcasm:

[Karenca]

29. why could.t you relate to BBM?

[Karenca]

41. so you didnt see BBM

you only saw the clips.

ok

[FreedomAngel82]

53. And I don't care to

Just like other people here dissing on "Crash" have yet told if they've seen the movie themselves. They're nothing but whiny asses. The Oscars aren't about politics as another poster said. BBM is a boring reoccuring theme. There was another movie out in the late 70's with the exact same theme called "Making Love" that was actually really good. Only no cowboys etc.

[Erika]

79. You don't care to see BrokeBack Mountain?

But then carry on about how Crash deserves to win?

I*'m disappointed but enlightened about posters. I have been seeing flicks about race problems for decades. Evidently some see one gay film so they can say they've seen them all? Truly disappointed but enlightened.

[Bluebear]

153. BBM is a boring reoccuring theme....unless you're gay

Then it reoccurs day in and day out.

[Maddy McCall]

64. Nullifies her opinion, eh.

This is a ridiculous thread. Not really unusual for the OP, though.

[Maddy McCall]

51. Did you even SEE Brokeback Mountain?

I'm beginning to get the impression that you didn't; therefore, you don't have the knowledge to say which film is better.

I think they both were deserving. I wasn't disappointed that Crash won. It has nothing to do with which one "more people can relate to."

[Karenca]

she/he said NO and she/he said SHE DOESN'T Care to.

[FreedomAngel82]

130. Just like I don't care to see some of the other films nominated

[FreedomAngel82]

96. Did you ever SEE "Crash"?

[Karenca]

102. Yes

and I thought it was ok.
Not the worst movie, but not a great movie.

[Dawgs]

181. WTF!!

"From the clips, to me personally, the film looked boring. There was only one clip I enjoyed and that was with Michelle Williams (who I really do like as an actress). I loved "Crash" and could relate to it so much more than I ever could BBM."

I'm a straight 35 year old male that thought the same thing about BBM, until I saw it. It was, by far, the best movie I saw last year. Crash was okay, but not worthy of best picture.

I can't believe I'm responding to someone that critiqued a movie based on clips.


:crazy:

[Erika]

37. Hollywood has become WH PC

OK the racial movies, but don't let the gays "to win".

Only Ang and Clooney spoke up for tolerance. None of the Crash crew spoke up for tolerance. What does that say?

[FreedomAngel82]

42. So why did they win a shit load of awards?

CRASH ONLY WON ONE AWARD THE WHOLE DAMN NIGHT WHERE AS BBM WON A SHIT LOAD OF AWARDS!

[Karenca]

49. because noone is going to remember the other awards in a few weeks

Best picture is the one that matters.

[GRLMGC]

50. No it didn't

Crash also won for editing.

[fishwax]

224. and original screenplay

[Erika]

56. Look at the awards...

Token awards. No best acting, no best picture. Got the best director and a few other minor awards.

But enjoy your PC WH vanilla/Chocolate picture.

[Divine Discontent]

150. amen!! n/t

[fishwax]

225. i don't think best director and best screenplay (adaptation) are minor

awards at all. I'm proud of how well Brokeback did. I thought it would and should win best picture (though I haven't yet seen crash).

[regnaD kciN]

59. Actually, they won three...

CRASH ONLY WON ONE AWARD THE WHOLE DAMN NIGHT

...Best Picture, Best Original Screenplay, and Best Editing.

[Skittles]

46. GOOD NIGHT AND GOOD LUCK WAS BETTER THAN BOTH OF THEM

IT WAS!!!!!

[Erika]

62. The message was focused and intense

Good Night and Good Luck was a fantastic movie.

[Skittles]

70. it WAS indeed !!!

I can't believe people carrying on about Crash/Brokeback - GNGL was ABSOLUTELY SUPERIOR in every way!!!

[Maddy McCall]

69. Skittles, she didn't even see Brokeback Mtn. She admits that above.

You're arguing with the human equivalent of a brick wall.

[Skittles]

227. I saw all five movies!

so I know!! :D

[American liberal]

135. That's what I've been saying in every Oscar thread I joined in on.

GNAGL should have won BP! Clooney was robbed!

[Skittles]

43. I absolutely disagree

I saw all five movies nominated and Crash was good but nowhere NEAR in the league of the others, not even CLOSE

[kdpeters]

231. That's why I'm suspecting a cabal to vote for "Crash"

I'm not saying it's homophobia, but compared to the other four movies, "Crash" just didn't stack up. I saw all five and thought "Crash" worthy of it's nomination, but clearly tied for last among the other four. My own personal choice for nomination would be "King Kong" rather than "Crash", but of the other four "Brokeback Mountain" is clearly the best of the best. "Capote" and "Good Night, and Good Luck" were close second tier. "Munich" was good, but "Crash" was better. If Capote or GNaGL had won, I think I would have simply chalked it up to a close vote. If it had been "Munich", I'd have thought the Academy was giving deference to Steven Speilberg. But, with "Crash", I have no clue as to why it won best picture. It wasn't even close to BBM, Capote, or GNaGL.

As such, I can't help but to assume homophobia played a role. The other factor I can fathom is that "Crash" is the hometown LA favorite and the sheer volume of stars in the film put it over the top with Academy members voting for their friends. Consider Don Cheadle, Sandra Bullock, Matt Dillon, and Ryan Phillipe.

Knowing the people I know in LA, and knowing the general Big City west coast reaction to BrokeBack Mountain, it wouldn't surprise me if there weren't also a little urban bigotry toward a rural life that they just simply cannot grasp. But I've lived it, I know the farmers and ranchers that talked just like Ennis Delmar. I know what it's like to be so homophobic, you can't admit to yourself that you're gay even though you're having sex with another man. But many of my San Francisco gay brethren simply can't get past the mumbling, dialogue and accent or the honest denials of homosexuality as manifestations of a conflicted soul. But I know Ennis and Jack. I know they could have been me. And I know the director and producers got it right. Perfect almost. So much so that I could see myself in those characters.

So, no. I wouldn't be quick to assign homophobia as the reason BBM didn't win; It could be part homophobia; part urban bigotry toward rural lifestyles and Southern/Western accents; part the preference for hometown themes and stars.

But make no mistake, Hollywood blew it!! They chose a second tier film and three top-tier movies were ripped off for whatever reason.

[David__77]

55. Blech...

I don't get it, but I don't like the sound of what you're saying. Who cares if you're changing or not changing your sexual orientation?

[FreedomAngel82]

141. Because of what BBM is about

It's about a man who is married who later falls in love with another man.

[Karenca]

152. No, You are totally wrong!!!

[fishwax]

226. that's not an accurate summary at all

and even if it were, why would it require you to change your sexual orientation in order to relate to it?

[FATNED]

66. What the hell...I'll jump in...

Several folks I talked to mentioned that at least one moment in "Crash" rang false or at least very trite. For me, it was the moment with the shop owner shooting but not shooting the locksmith because he had blanks. Not sure why, just seemed a little too pat and precious. Overall, while it addressed some important issues, it did so in an ocassionally simple and uninteresting way. I liked it but it was nowhere near the best movie of the year.

Brokeback was quite a bit better, no thanks to Jake G. who nearly ruined the movie all by himself. Heath was staggeringly good and Jake seemed to be acting in an after school special. Still a good movie and I liked it better than Crash.

For what it's worth, Match Point was my favorite movie of the year.

And there you go, yet another opinion and I welcome my lumps....

[FrenchieCat]

67. Loved Crash!

Saw it when it first came out.......and I'm glad that I did!

[Marlie]

99. I loved Crash too

My husband and I saw it right after release, before any Oscar buzz. I loved it and he absolutely hated it. Politics were not involved. Maybe it's a chic flick.
I haven't seen all the movies nominated so I can't make comparisons. I couldn't
wait for it to be released on DVD so I could watch it again. By the way,
the same small studio that released Fahrenheit 911, made Crash. The guy who
accepted the award for Crash was one of the only people I heard say the word
"peace" on stage, so I'm happy for them and again, I thought it was a great movie.

[FreedomAngel82]

165. I did notice that

I didn't know that. That's cool though with F911.

[Harper_is_Bush]

80. Crash was a better movie, perhaps?

Why on earth would you think it's about what more people can relate to? That makes no sense at all.

[Erika]

97. No, the movie was vanilla/chocolate

and the acting was mediocre. But it was a PC film. Evidently, that's the shallowness this country now envisions.

[AtomicKitten]

107. Wow, you really didn't get it.

No wonder you don't like it, you didn't get it. At all.

Many others including myself saw amazing depth and complexity in it, a great ensemble piece.

I would suggest, if you are inclined, to watch it again sometime. In my opinion it would be worth it.

[fooj]

132. I humbly disagree. Matt Dillon's acting was superb in the film.

I hated the SOB at the beginning...

Peace.

[AtomicKitten]

136. LOVE Matt Dillon

Loved him in TO DIE FOR too.

[FreedomAngel82]

171. So let's look at all the people who watch movies in America

How many people do you think can compare to rascsim and sterotyping as compared to what happens in BBM? I've never experienced love yet (crushes sure but not love) but I have sterotyping.

[kweerwolf]

84. 'Crash' was the 'safe' choice for the Oscar

Personally, I think it was the weakest of the five nominees because it was derivative of much better films like 'Magnolia' and Altman's 'Short Cuts.' It's heart was in the right place, but it was more of a made-for-TV 'issue' movie ... not that there's anything wrong with that, but I'd bet the reason it won best picture is that votes were so split among the other better films that they canceled each other out.

To be entirely honest, although 'Brokeback Mountain' was good, the only really decent actor in it was Heath Ledger. Plus, there was no chemistry between him and Jake. It never rose much above the level of 'hey, look at us! we're two straight guys playing gay!'

While all the nominees were good (and thus made it easier for Oscar voters to slip a safe choice like 'Crash' through as best picture) I would have probably voted for 'Capote' or 'Good Night and Good Luck' over the others ... though I haven't seen 'Munich' yet.

[FreedomAngel82]

172. I'm surprised GNAGL didn't win more than what it did

Kinda disappointed with that.

[AtomicKitten]

85. In 1997, I preferred LA Confidential over Titanic.

It's OK to a different opinion.

[Bluebear]

151. I'm with you on that one, kitten nt

[wiley]

158. Oh Yeah!

[JI7]

95. i can relate to Brokeback Mountain

and the two characters Ennis and Jack even though i'm a straight woman.

[msgadget]

116. "...people can relate to sterotyping and rascism than they can being gay."

I REALLY don't believe that's why Crash won over Brokeback. I prefer to believe it won for being a riveting movie with fine ensemble acting. I also don't agree that it was a 'liberal' movie. It was illustrative, open-ended, no conclusions were drawn. It merely showed people reacting to fear that derived from stereotypes or reverting to stereotyping as a result of fear. It was that simple and that profound, imo. When I first saw it the fear and distrust we have for the world around us jumped out at me - racism wasn't the major theme.

I gotta say, your reaction and interpretation surprises me a little. What'd your sociology teacher say?

[Divine Discontent]

118. who's being a sore "Winner"??? FreedomAngel82

why else start your own thread when you've already commented with vitriol about Crash in the other thread? Comical.

And you don't see it getting only ONE award (the biggest) out of all the awards given out the past few weeks as being bizarre? And no, you obviously don't understand what it's like to be gay, and that's okay, but watch 1 DAY of television and flip through the channels and look at the mockery of gays that's shown.

Many people who saw Crash were very unimpressed. Rarely have a read a negative comment about BBM by people who actually attended a showing.

[Bluebear]

127. OK! OK! It won already!

:crazy:

[fooj]

128. Was I smoking crack tonight?

Didn't both BBM and Crash BOTH receive 3 Academy Awards EACH?

[Pushed To The Left]

143. Crash is one of my all-time favorite movies!

I saw both Crash and Brokeback Mountain. Brokeback was great, but Crash was absolutely amazing.

[Contrary1]

159. If there were Academy Awards...

for ridiculously boring and repetitive threads, this one would win.

Hands down.

[Bluebear]

160. LOL

[FreedomAngel82]

166. I think that would go to your post there sweetie

[Contrary1]

183. Well then...

Since you said it, it must be true.

[threadkillaz]

161. Hooray for Wallace and Gromit!

Fck the rest.

[NVMojo]

163. Crash forces the viewer to walk in shoes of both sides of misunderstanding

and that is what makes it personal to almost anyone watching.

[RagingInMiami]

167. Thanks for the entertaining thread

You had me laughing out loud. Getting people all riled up like that without having even seen the movie. Classic.

[Bluebear]

168. I've never seen a show like this before!

:applause:

[RagingInMiami]

169. Oscar material

[Maddy McCall]

170. I have.

I Am Sam. Except Penn's character was decisively more intelligent.

G'night, Bluebear. :)

On edit: One more recommendation, and this thread goes to the greatest page. :P

[LincolnMcGrath]

173. Clever

[enigmatic]

174. This might be in the top 5 greatest DU threads of all-time

I'm completely serious; it's amazing...

[QC]

178. There's nothing more entertaining than a genuine netkook

in a frenzy.

[donheld]

175. Take two of these. You'll feel better tomorrow

[The Backlash Cometh]

177. I loved the movie because it gave me some feeling of relief when

people got their comeuppance. It allowed me to relive all the ugly things that happen with racism, but it was bearable because bad things happened to bad people. And that's my philosophy. I try to turn the other cheek and just leave it to God that the other guy will get what he deserves.

[Totally Committed]

179. "Oscar's Civil War: Red and Blue States Bash and Boost

... 2005's Best Picture Nominations" By Kathleen Murphy

Excerpt from this excellent article, which talks about the reasons why and why not certain movies won or didn't win the Oscar:

'CRASH'

A bleeding-heart liberal's dream movie, "Crash" delivers a heavy-handed message about race relations with all the subtlety of a head-on collision. Hard to fault the good heart and great cast on display in Paul Haggis' directorial debut; far more difficult to ignore the film's dim wits.

Though lefty critics gush over "Crash" for illuminating L.A.'s multiracial mash-up, the film's story is too schematic to allow messy flesh-and-blood reality much play. Easy to swallow, the film encourages viewers to go away feeling smug and enlightened when, in fact, we've been soothed by a superficial parable about America's volatile, complicated issues of race and ethnicity.

Even New York Times film critic AO Scott couldn't entirely buy into the movie's knee-jerk sermonizing. He backhanded Haggis' amateurish effort to "complexify" his designated racial reps -- blacks, whites, Hispanics and Persians -- by noting that they all had been given exactly "two sides."
"Crash" is the kind of "agenda" movie that makes its blatantly obvious points by aiming figurative neon arrows at emblematic characters, events and plot twists. See, here's a racist cop groping and humiliating a lovely upper-class black woman. Look, now he's saving her from a fiery car crash. Get it? When it's a matter of life and death, skin color doesn't matter. Now join hands for the "Can't we all just get along?" boogie.

Deep down, "Crash" believes that a change of heart could cure the world's ills -- and that always speaks to Oscar's sentimental side. Haggis's old-fashioned liberalism -- reminiscent of Stanley Kramer ("The Defiant Ones") -- is blandly unobjectionable, unlike the subtle and challenging humanism of, say, "Munich."

http://movies.msn.com/movies/oscars2006/civilwar


TC

[AtomicKitten]

182. I too am proud to be out of the mainstream (Clooney)

as well as a bleeding heart liberal.

[Totally Committed]

184. I couldn't agree with you more!

eom

TC

[indigo32]

186. This review

says ALOT of what I felt about Crash. It wasn't the best picture.

[HuffleClaw]

185. imo, 'brokeback' was simply a love story that happened to have gays in it

hence, the 'controversy'. if it had been the SAME story minus the gays, it wouldn't have received any real notice. 'crash', on the other hand, directly approached social issues.

[QC]

187. The forest is just a bunch of trees.

Without them it would just be grass and dirt.

The whole point of the movie is the closet and the devastating effect it has on those forced to live in it. I don't think you could make a similar film about straights, whose loves are encouraged, celebrated, and even subsidized by the larger society. There is no straight closet.

It could not have "been the SAME story minus the gays." It would have been a different story entirely.

And if you don't think that homophobia is a "social issue" then you should try talking to some "gays" before dismissing our concerns out of hand.

[David Zephyr]

189. You wrote: "I love men and don't have any plan of changing."

You quite cavalierly write, "I love men and don't have any plan of changing."

What on earth is that supposed to mean, darling?

What it means is that you are ignorant to the fact that homosexuals do not "choose" their orientation and what it further means is that you think that you somehow "chose" your own.

Your homophobia just oozes out throughout your originating post. It was entertaining reading it though.

You won't be winning an Oscar for your act at being gay-tolerant.

[jonnyblitz]

191. THAT whole point seems to go right over her clueless head

as she continues to redundantly rant on in thread after thread after thread on the topic.

[Maddy McCall]

192. Thread after thread after thread that she started. (My assessment)

She started thread after thread after thread on the same topic, and then she became two-year-old irate when people disagreed with her, then she insulted and attacked them, and then, when people who had NOT attacked her responded as I did after being attacked by her numerous times(When I heard that she's a COLLEGE student, I simply said that I fear for the future) she posted an "I'm leaving GDP!" thread.

Something tells me, though, that she'll be back. She has over 36,000 posts in the year since she joined DU. I would wager that a large number of those were posted in skirmishes she created.

Let me be clear. I saw both Crash and Brokeback Mountain. I thought they were both good films. I am really glad that almost all of the five best films nominees had progressive messages so I was happy at the nominee level. The problem with the OP is that she compares two movies in the OP, yet she had only seen ONE of those movies. When I pointed that out to her, she lost her mind, and for some reason interpreted my intent as "calling her stupid" and "making me leave DU." What was truly amusing was the two DUers who rushed to her defense, even though there was nothing to defend, who lashed out at me, calling me a toad and a bitch. (Where is the smiley for kooky?)

Blitz, you know that this person is not the most sane of DU posters. She refuses to DISCUSS issues. When people ask her to THINK, she goes ballistic.

In the past, I've had stances on certain issues on which I had never thought I would yield. One was the Terri Schiavo case. I started a thread several years ago asking DUers why Michael Schiavo didn't release Terri to her parents, so that she could LIVE. Over 100 people responded to that thread. We engaged in sane discussion and rational debate. The very next thread I started was to announce that I had changed my position, and that I now understood that Michael was carrying out Terri's wishes, and that her parents were using her as a ragdoll for the pro-life movement. The point is that I LISTENED to other people's positions. I realized that mine were flawed. I certainly didn't issue a cyberslap to people who showed me the flaws in my position. To this day, I appreciate the clarity on the Schiavo case that DUers provided to me.

Part of being a progressive or a liberal is the willingness to listen to and learn from other progressives. There are liberals with so many varied experiences here at DU; we all should be willing to open our minds, hear different opinions, and make INFORMED responses.

If that poster does come back to GDP, I hope she at least comes back less combative and more eager to listen, to learn. She claims to be only 23, and from reading her posts, I gather that she's lived a somewhat sheltered life. She should LISTEN to the many active, informed, experienced liberals and progressives at DU. I'm not saying that she has to agree with them, but she should at least stop ranting long enough to just LISTEN. Only then can she make informed posts on DU. Until then, she can post 40,000 more posts, but no one will take them seriously.

Now, I won't even address the tragic level of homophobia in her posts. Any DUers reading this thread should know that over half of this thread was deleted above (subthread deleted). In those posts, she got called to task on it, and she responded that "I have done lots of work for gay rights." I would say that, until she is informed on the issue, the "work" she's done may have been more destructive than constructive.

I don't see any point of joining a forum like DU if one isn't willing to listen to and learn from others. I thought that that is the whole point. I've been educated and informed by people with perspectives different from mine, as a result of my time here, and I hope that I've used my perspective to educate and inform people. That's what it's all about, isn't it?

[FreedomAngel82]

199. Right and you know how I've lived my life?

:eyes: Right and you can go around and claim I'm a homophobe because I'm not interested in watching a movie dealing with two gay men? Right. And you're a rascists person yourself with the same purpose of "Crash." What an immature jerk you are Maddy and you should be ashamed of yourself with your false accusations and slandering on me.

[Maddy McCall]

203. Honey, if you're going to discuss racism in even minimally-educated

company, perhaps you should learn how to spell it.

Riiight?

[QC]

201. Yep, 37,000 posts in a little over a year...

and I strongly suspect that at least 36,800 of them are personal insults and meltdowns.

[FreedomAngel82]

205. False accusations once again

Gosh you guys just can't stand dissenting views here can you?

[Maddy McCall]

208. No, I just can't stand obtuse people who still fail to get the point...

even after numerous DUers have made the point to you.

The point: You didn't watch Brokeback Mountain, and even had the arrogance to say that you have no interest in watching it because you are a "straight woman," yet you had the audacity to author a comparison of Crash and Brokeback Mountain, and deemed Crash the better film because "more people can relate to rascism <sic>" than to being gay.

You were called to task for this--by almost everyone on the thread. Your view is not dissenting--it's ignorant and uninformed, which is what numerous people told you last night. Instead of carrying on a discussion of the topic, you went off on a tangent, accusing DUers of attacking you while you yourself issued attack after attack--indeed, you were the first person to go on the warpath. I know, in my case, I only responded with my question of your intellect and my fear for the nation's future after you demonstrated time after time how obtuse you are. And, again, you began attacking in your first post after your brief respite from GDP.

I love opposing views. I relish INTELLIGENT, INFORMED debate. With you, sweetheart, it's merely an impossibility.

[FreedomAngel82]

210. And you know this how?

How many conversations have you ever held with me? :eyes:

[Maddy McCall]

213. You must be purposefully obtuse.

[WildEyedLiberal]

216. She's not, though

And that's the sad part. :scared:

[FreedomAngel82]

222. So now my personal actions, who I'm friends with etc doesn't matter

because I could care less about a movie? Gee how democratic.

[Maddy McCall]

206. Make that 36,801

She's back. :silly:

[ruggerson]

207. rofl n/t

[jonnyblitz]

204. great post. (just getting around to reading it)

:thumbsup:

[FreedomAngel82]

200. Riiight

To say that I can not relate to this film where as I can "Crash." Obviously that went over your head. You guys are all so pathetic. LOL!

[Neil Lisst]

190. I thought CRASH worthy of an oscar, not to the exclusion of others

I'm not saying others were not also oscar worthy, but CRASH clearly was oscar worthy.

[Maddy McCall]

193. Yes, the nominee field was extraordinary this year.

[Hans Delbrook]

194. Wow - Homophobia - it's not just for Republicans anymore.

For the record - I saw all 5 movies (therefore I feel justified in commenting.)
I'd put them in this order:

Brokeback Mountain
Good Night and Good Luck
Munich
Crash
Capote

I'm basing that on artistic merit (imagine that!) not on what "people can relate to" or whether it's "been done before" 'cause gawd know that Crash is the first movie ever to deal w/ racism, huh? Ever see Grand Canyon?

And ya' know what? I do think BBM lost due homophobic idiots like Tony Curtis who wouldn't even watch the freakin' film before judging it (not that anyone on DU would ever do that). But you know what else? I'm a lot more worried about losing Roe v. Wade than I am that BBM lost an Oscar.

And for the record - I'm a straight woman who can actually relate to a story about two human beings (average every day human beings!!) who fall in love (an average every day emotion!!) and are kept apart by fear and ignorance. Thank goodness that could only happen in 1963. RiiiggghhT?

[Bluebear]

195. Excellent. nt

[FreedomAngel82]

209. Uhm when did I ever bash gay people?

Gosh you people really do make false accusations of people. Where is your proof that BBM lost because of homophobic people? Did you not see George Clooney's acceptance speech? :shrug:

[Name removed]

196. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Skittles]

211. you are twisted

you can't see the value in anything you cannot relate to? You sound like a g.d.republican

[Bluebear]

214. "Homo"??????

What an ass.

[newsguyatl]

197. crash was a lame movie, sorry

[LibertyorDeath]

202. You would have to Pay ME to watch Sandra Bullock

[Skittles]

212. is it me or does she look more manly everytime I see her?

I'm serious

[FreedomAngel82]

215. Riiight because I don't like the same movies you do that means

that right? How lame. You're so sad.

[Skittles]

219. WHAT THE F*** ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT NOW???

PLEASE GO AWAY

[LibertyorDeath]

228. LOL yes there's that, plus she can't act her way out of a wet paper bag

I think she's a graduate of the Keanu Reeves school of acting.

"The method is the medium" :)

[NMMNG]

229. Well, gee

As a white woman I will never what it is like to live as an ethnic minority. Therefore it is perfectly ok for me to trash them and all things relating to them. :sarcasm:





Narrow minded much?

[rasputin1952]

232. Locking

GD/P is a political discussion forum. While there may be some aspects of a political nature in the Academy Awards, the discussion in this thread has declined to Personal and Group Attacks.

Please feel free to post about the Academy Awards in the Lounge or General Discussion.