Is it really such a stretch that Hollywood avoided Brokeback

[dsc]

for homophobic reasons? Oscar hasn't had a great history toward any minorities. Yes, in 1939, Oscar honored an African American woman for supporting actress. It over 50 years for that to happen again and over 60 for an African American woman to win a best actress Oscar. Look at Denzel Washington, it took an age for him to win. Morgan Freeman, no Oscar.

Given that record it is hardly surprising that gays would be dissed in Hollywood at Oscar time. Crash was a good movie, though I think it was the fourth out of the five nominated. Good Night and Good Luck, Brokeback, and Syriana were all better. But, the idea Crash won on an anti Brokeback vote isn't insane, nor is it impossible. It is, frankly, more than a little likely. On edit Syriana wasn't nominated for Best Picture Munich was and it was better too.

[Eric J in MN]

1. Ang Lee won Best Director (nt)

nt

[dsc]

2. a directors only award

and I think you have to be active still in order to vote which means a much younger crowd. He also was majorly robbed on Croching Tiger and was owed an Oscar.

[Eric J in MN]

5. He won best foreign film for Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon.

nt

[dsc]

8. His producer did

not him. Most people felt he should have won director for that.

[Harper_is_Bush]

3. What am I missing here. Wasn't it nominated for 8 and won 3???

This isn't the first thread I've seen claiming homophobia over the oscar results.

Was it not nominated for 8 awards and win three of them?

[dsc]

4. It won for script, director, and soundtrack

it lost picture, and all its acting nominees and one other thing. My major point is that the reaction to this idea is a bit over the top. It happens all the time sadly.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

16. Exactly. if it was homophobia it wouldn't even have been nominated!

I think Good Night and Good Luck should have won, instead of Crash.

Perhaps I should start a thread asking if Hollywood is Murrowphobic?

[dsc]

18. actually to be nominated you only need

a few people who think your film is the best film. The films aren't ranked by voters but voters only vote for one film. Thus to get nominated you only have to be in the top five and people hating the film doesn't matter. I would imagine that Munich was a polarizing film with some stalwart supporters.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

24. ok, I don't know how the silly contest works...

but you get my meaning, I'm sure.

[1932]

48. Yes. Of all movies released in 2005, it was top 5 most popular among

Academy members. IMO, it lost for the same reasons Marissa Tomei won in the early 90s. The field was crowded with good movies that divided the sensible person's vote. Brokeback and Good Night, Good Luck probably split smart people's votes, which allowed Crash to sneak in.

[onenote]

56. i guess i are not smarrt

caus i thunk crash were a real good movey.

onenote

[1932]

73. Not in the opinion of Lions Gate, Crash's distributor.

BBM opened in what Focus Features refers to as "smart-house" theaters. Crash opened in cineplexes.

[Maven]

6. No, obviously we're crazy to think so

And we're racists for not thinking "Crash" was a better movie.

[Harper_is_Bush]

9. Good point. I don't think Crash should have won because I'm uncomfortable

with black people. :sarcasm:

[Divine Discontent]

17. lol... true

and there's another thread I started where I was barraged with a plethora of attacks for even suggesting, even though I have good evidence of the possibility they didn't want the gay cowboy film to win, and instead we get watered down Oscar awards for the most beautiful, sweeping story that hasn't been told and shown to mass audiences ever.


We've seen Crash type stories done much better.

[marmar]

7. It's quite possible...

and perhaps it had some impact on the voting. But honestly, with this year's strong group of best picture nominees, it's tougher to say.
I loved Brokeback, but thought Munich was the best picture. My coworker also loved Brokeback, but thought Capote was the best picture. My best friend loved Munich, Capote and Good Night/Good Luck, but thought Brokeback was the best picture.
More than most years, the Oscars were very subjective this year. Does that mean homophobia didn't play a role? Absolutely not. I just think it would be harder to say that definitively this year.

[dsc]

10. Munich was a great film

but sadly for it Speilburg directed it. They had to give him an Oscar for Schindler's List but that is the last one he will get. I think Brokeback was better than it was but not by much.

[fishwax]

13. I thought Brokeback was much better than Munich

I haven't seen Crash, though.

[dsc]

15. Brokeback was better in my opinon

but I ranked Munich as a reasonably close second. Good Night Good luck was third, Crash fourth, and Capote fifth.

[regnaD kciN]

23. You're already incorrect...

They had to give him an Oscar for Schindler's List but that is the last one he will get.

He also got Best Director for Saving Private Ryan five years later (in 1998).

[dsc]

45. I forgot he won for that

He also deserved that. But the subject matter forced hands again.

[JI7]

32. why do you say Spielberg wont get an Oscar again ?

[dsc]

44. He makes oodles of money

which is a bad sign for Oscar. He also makes a lot of schlock.

[Taylor Mason Powell]

11. Wouldn't you agree these things are subjective?

So why attribute this to homophobia when it's much more likely a simple matter of taste? There were a lot of very strong nominees this year. I was bummed that Heath and Jake didn't win, but I'm not going to ascribe some sort of nefarious reasons for that. How do you compare art, anyway? The whole idea of the Oscars is flawed, in my opinion.

(Edited subject 'cause I misread an earlier comment)
(Edit #2: typo)

[dsc]

12. I'm not saying it is

what I am saying is that calling people racist crack pots for thinking it might be the case is over the top.

[msgadget]

14. I didn't see it that way

Anything's possible but I didn't get that impression and I never heard or saw anyone backing away from it preceeding the awards. Crash and the Johnny Cash movie were drummed up for Oscar nods from early on. I am disappointed Munich didn't get more or Good Night and Good Luck but I was rooting for Crash.

[Divine Discontent]

19. perhaps

Crash had some Katrina sentiment behind it. again, everything's political as I stated in the other big thread about this. I firmly believe there was a rumored swell of "vote for Crash" that popped up weeks ago, that was to push out BBM.

Congrats to the winner, they all are proud. I believe BBM will be long lasting despite this loss that most all critics, and polls predicted for it.

It's a shame the most nominated, the most awarded, the most financially popular, the most transcending storyline got shut out of the big 5 awards.

[dsc]

21. script and director are part of the big five

or are you referencing Munich?

[msgadget]

27. KATRINA sentiment??

I...I'm not going to bother to respond to that statement because I don't know you and don't want to assume something negative about you. For all I know you're speaking a 'truth' you think others are afraid to say and you could very well be wrong (though I'm sure you could find folks who agree with you). I've NEVER related Crash to Katrina and I haven't heard anyone mention it and Katrina in the same sentence.

Cheerio.

[marmar]

53. Katrina sentiment?

Crash was a movie about the complexities of race relations in Los Angeles, but I don't see the connection to Katrina. And actually, wasn't it the most financially successful of those movies?
And I thought Brokeback was better than Crash, tho I thought Munich was the best picture.

[bliss_eternal]

60. I had forgotten about Munich--

got to see that movie, too! :hi:

[JI7]

20. i'm not sure

a few things we have to remember when talking about hollywood being liberal. it's often actors or those who are out in public who are liberals.

but there are many behind the scenes people who invest in these things who aren't really so liberal. or maybe they are but their main concern is their pocketbooks. they may have been worried about losing "middle america"(i really hate that term).

especially with the media already talking about how oscar films aren't making as much money as some other films(many of which suck).

we already know the issues of minorities having a tough time getting good non stereotypical roles in movies. and how actors are worried about coming out as gay because it would ruin their career.

i'm not ready to say this was homophobia, especially since i haven't seen Crash. but i can understand why some would think it so.

[k_jerome]

22. the better film won. the favorite lost.

no titanic or gump this year. thank god.

[Erika]

26. Crash was simplistic and chocolate/vs/vanilla

The actors were medocre as was the plot. It was like it was put out there as a Bush lite flick.

[k_jerome]

28. that is your opinion. the academy and others disagree.

all were fine movies in my opinion. and the best movie won.

[Erika]

29. No, it's not just my opinion...not at all

BBM has won just about every film industry award out there.

Crash was mediocre at the best and the only PC acceptable film here in the U.S. Or are you like others, if You've seen one gay film, you've seen them all?

[k_jerome]

31. brokeback was the favorite and way hyped. it lost

the better movie won. why the sour grapes?

[Erika]

35. Crash was a PC feel good film about racism

with mediocre actors. W would have approved.

[k_jerome]

36. just sour grapes when the hype machine doesn't deliver...

an undeserved award.

[FreedomAngel82]

62. News flash

The Oscars are about movies and telling a story and not politics.

[Erika]

25. BBM should have won in almost all catagories

Evidently Hollywood now wants to be WH PC. Scared of being dixie chicked?

Crash was "allowable" under WH PC thinking. BBM , Good Night and Good Luck, and Syriana as well as Munich weren't.

Now we have even DU'ers dissing BBM when they admit they haven't even seen the pic.

[FreedomAngel82]

63. And you've seen "Crash" right?

News flash Erika- the Oscars are not about politics but about telling a story and the movie.

[k_jerome]

30. freeman no oscar? nt.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

43. He won Supporting Actor for Million Dollar Baby last year.

[bliss_eternal]

33. Hollywood is still bigoted in many ways...

Nothing against George Clooney and what he said, because I do love him. But while he was speaking positively about Hollywood giving an award to a black woman when blacks were sitting in the back of the bus, he forgot something. That Lena Horne's scenes in films were frequently just musical numbers, so they could be cut when played in southern states. There are other injustices that she has spoken quite eloguently about...

While black men and women have won honors in acting categories, what about latinos and latinas, asians, etc. What about the physically challenged? Marlee Matlin is the only deaf actress in the history of the academy to win. Surely there are other deaf, hearing impaired, physically challenged actors in Hollywood--where are they and where are their parts and awards?

Let's talk about gays in Hollywood. Why are they still casting straight men to play gay characters? Why is it alright for gays to be stylists and makeup artists behind the camera, but no one wants them to be in front? Unless of course it's on some cute little show where they make over the pathetic style challenged straight people?

Why is the show about gay women, that actually has gay actresses portray some of the characters not nominated for any Emmys? Yet Will and Grace was nominated all the time?

:shrug: :mad: :grr:

Sorry, but from where I sit--tossing a few awards every decade or so to black actors is not enough to challenge the bigotry and fear that still exists in Hollywood.

[msgadget]

34. I missed Clooney, what'd he say?

Sorry, I hate awards shows but the family out-voted me and I didn't stick around for interviews or anything.

Lemme ask you something:do you think it was a choice between a 'black' or a 'homosexual' movie? I swear, I thought BBM had as much a shot as every other movie but, based on the reaction here, I can see everyone didn't believe that. The only movie I wasn't rooting for was Capote, which I have not had a desire to see. Based on the clip the actor seemed to have nailed him though.

Btw, I didn't even consider Crash a 'black' movie...

[Erika]

37. Clooney preached equality and tolerance

Crash is a feel good movie with mediocre actors and a shallow plot.

[msgadget]

38. LOL! A 'feel good movie'?

Equality and tolerance in what way - re racism or homophobia? Wonder why he felt the need...

[k_jerome]

39. its just sour grapes. nt.

[bliss_eternal]

40. That's an interesting question...

I don't necessarily think of Crash as a black movie either. I also don't think it was necessarily an issue between a black film and a homosexual one. I'm not really sure what it was...

I do think that Hollywood still has some issues where the gay community is concerned.

I honestly thought Brokeback would sweep. I really did. The film has gained so much acclaim. Maybe that was naive of me, but I thought it had a serious thought, despite my belief that Hollywood still needs to grow in this area and the other areas I spoke of in my post.

As for George Clooney, I missed him too. I was told here on DU that he addressed some of the comments political circles (the right) have made regarding Hollywood being so out of touch. He said he was proud to be a part of a community that addresses social issues in film, a community that gave a black woman an award when blacks were still expected to sit on the back of the bus, etc. It sounds like he gave a great speech and I'm sorry I missed it. :(

They gave Hattie McDaniel an Oscar, yes. But in the grand scheme of things, they weren't about to challenge the status quo by saying give Hattie and others like her equal rights. No more than they are willing to say, what shrub has said and done about the gay community is wrong.

Just my $.02. Always good to see you! :hi:

[marmar]

54. " don't necessarily think of Crash as a black movie"

Absolutely, because it's not. It's about the complexities of all kinds of race relations in Los Angeles - black, white, Latino, Asian etc etc.. People keep asserting that Brokeback is got the write-off as "that gay movie," but it seems to me that in this thread, "Crash" is getting written off as "that black movie."
BOTH films impact all of us, so I don't understand all the factionalism. The threads of this subject are the nastiest I've seen on DU.

[bliss_eternal]

55. I know...

I've been blown away by a lot of the nastiness, too... :hi: :hug:

[bliss_eternal]

61. marmar--

You know, I almost missed the entire Oscar show. First of all, they aired it earlier so they wouldn't have to rush as much as they usually do (lol). Also, I wasn't as focused on them as I had watched the Independent Spirit Awards and was quite content with the results of those.

I'm frequently irritated by the Oscars, for a variety of reasons. But I find the Indies rather satisfying, because they reward films based on different standards than the Oscars seem to.

[marmar]

67. Agreed....

And actually I probably spend a lot more time watching indies and art-house flicks these days anyway.

[msgadget]

58. Thanks, Bliss

And, damned good answer.

[FreedomAngel82]

65. So does that mean you're rascists?

[FreedomAngel82]

64. Prove it

[bliss_eternal]

68. self delete

...

[FreedomAngel82]

41. And your proof is where?

[Bluebear]

42. Well there isn't a concrete claim in the OP

It's a call to reflection about the topic.

[dsc]

46. My point is it doesn't make a person a racist crack pot

to think it might be the case.

[Behind the Aegis]

47. The case is there.

The scary thing...it is has almost been proved here by the number of threads about this topic!

I asked elsewhere..."how can the "Best Picture" be declared when not ALL of the movies were seen?" I didn't say it that exact way...but you get it (not all of the judges watched BBM).

[QC]

49. Your deranged, obsessive, viciously personal postings on this subject

certainly validate the idea that "discomfort" could well have been a factor.

[saracat]

50. Please. There were two reasons it didn't win best pix

and neither were homophobia! It had a flawed storyline.The characters were not fully developed.The acting was fabulous and the scenery was great. Reason two was the inaccessibility of the film to voters. It was an attitude thing with the producers.It was difficult to find a theater to let you see the film for free.( And lest you think voters are "cheap" it is a tradition and a sign of respect to voting professionals)At least it was for the SAG Awards. And that was the only film to deny admittance to the voters to such an extensive degree. Crash, on the other hand sent out over 300,000 DVDs to the SAG voters because it was no longer in the theaters.It sent out thousands more to the Academy voters. It was the largest DVD drop in history. Everyone who needed to got to see "Crash". And it is interesting to note "Crash" won both the SAG and the Oscar . Coincidence? I don't think so! Great marketing.

[Pithy Cherub]

52. Exactly! The Hollywood Insiders are all talking about how

Crash did a first rate job of marketing. In Los Angeles, for the last couple of weeks especially, there have been private viewing/screening parties and places for connections to the actual voters. The Academy Award ballots were due Tuesday, February 28th. Crash's team was first rate on the marketing and ensuring every Academy voter received a DVD and promotional materials. Brokeback relied more on traditional press and marketing. Crash was a most excellent choice as Best Picture.

Just like presidential politics, behind the scenes, money and endorsements matter well before anyone votes. The buzz machine in Los Angeles for the last two weeks was screaming Crash for best pic.

[dsc]

59. I think the characters were fully developed

at least for that era.

[NVMojo]

51. I am proud that all of those movies were even made, including Capote

why all the usual American whining? Can you folk not see the change on nigh? I am grateful all of these films were produced. This is a backlash against the false America that has risen in the shadow of the liars...

[blondeatlast]

66. If justice prevailed in this world, yours would be the last word

on the subject.

I'm sitting here stunned by the infighting and backbiting going on when I saw all nominees addressing tough issues that the US has yet to come fully to grips with.

I wouldn't have cared which one, really; I consider it a banner year for Best Picture.

[onenote]

57. In a word: Yes.

Yes, its a stretch to attribute the results of Oscar voting to any one factor. Its entirely subjective. There are 6000 members of the academy and they can all vote for all categories. There is no way to know whether an academy member has even see all of the films or even the films for which they cast votes. The process is influenced more by professional and personal relationships (and jealousies) than by politics. I have no doubt that some Academy members voted for a movie other than BBM because they were uncomfortable with the content, without regard for its relative merit compared to the other nominated films. I also have no doubt that some members of the Academy voted for BBM because of its content, also without regard to its relative merit. And I have no doubt that any number of Academy members voted based on factors unrelated to the content OR the merit of the films. For example some may have voted for Crash because they wanted to see it get the publicity that comes from the best picture award. Some may have voted for one movie or another because they're going to be working with the co-star, or director of that film on an upcoming project and they figure it will help their next movie if their co-star or director just won an Oscar.

Six thousand voters, six thousand possible reasons for voting. So, yes, attributing the result in a particular category to a particular factor (when the same movie won one of the major awards -- best director) is quite a stretch.

onenote

[Jade Fox]

69. Didn't "Philadelphia" win best picture many years ago?

That was about a gay man with AIDS. :shrug:

[blondeatlast]

70. Not Best Picture, not even nominated for BP. Hanks won for Best Actor.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107818/awards

[Retrograde]

71. so how many votes did each get?

Is this info made public? What if Crash won by only a few votes - does this change the reasoning? Maybe it's just because more voters thought that Crash was a better movie for whatever definition of better they were using? Who gets to vote anyway?

Haven't seen any of the nominees yet, but Capote and BBM are on my Netflix list for whenever they come out on DVD. Maybe I'll add Crash as well.

[onenote]

72. answers

No the voting is not made public. Crash may have won by one vote or by 1000. We'll probably never know.

The Academy has around 6000 members. They are divided into branches (writers, actors, etc) and nominations are determined by branch-specific voting. However, once the nominations are set, all members of the academy are eligible to vote in all categories. There is no guarantee that the members that vote have seen all of the nominated movies (or any of them for that matter), although the academy makes it easy by arranging screenings, free tickets for members, and some studios send out dvds of the films. There also is nothing to stop academy voters based on whatever reasons they want. Its all utterly subjective. And professional and personal relationships often are as influential as the actual quality of the performance.

onenote