I apologize for starting the BROKEBACK/CRASH thread controversy

[Divine Discontent]

Although freedomangel82 is making my case very easy to defend that homophobia exists even in the Democratic world, I was rather grumpy with my post saying "lame" Crash won.

They both were part of the top 10 films of the year as critics state.

I believe, imho, that BBM had a political agenda against it winning where some, I repeat some, of the many older voters refused to watch the movie, and I heard rumors for weeks that Crash was surging and would win for this reason.

That is all my opinion and through the things I've heard.

I apologize for any negative comments against Crash winning, other than that I believe the BBM transcends what we see in theaters, and should have won.

Again, sorry to big fans of Crash.

[tomhayes]

1. But Crash was lame

And if you doubt it start the movie with the black social worker getting into the CRASH with the Chineese woman at the end. LAME LAME LAME.

As lame as BET's Comicview takes on the same subject.

Just my humble opinion.

[fooj]

4. Wow. I didn't see it as lame...

I saw it as all of us being connected in one way or another.

Peace.

[tomhayes]

12. >I saw it as all of us being connected in one way or another.

And that ways was.... we all hate Chinese drivers?

I'll admit the film had some good in it, especially the scene where Matt Dillion rescues Thandy Newton. That was good.

But at the end I was on the fence UNTIL the black social worker (who was treated very badly by Matt Dillion earlier) jumped out and hurled those Don Rickles imitator-esque at the Chinese driver. At that point (the last scene of the film) I realized what a manipulative, overly simplistic movie I had just sat through.

Will this make manipulatable, overly simplistic people start to talk about race relations? Magic eight-ball says : not likely.

IMHO.

I didn't see any of these other movies so maybe Crash was the best. But I doubt it.

At least the Freepers can still find a lot to hate in Crash.

[wiley]

2. They are both really great films

that will be watched for years. I think the DVD release of Brokeback will sell like crazy. Hopefully Crash will sell even more as well.

[fooj]

3. I see it like this...

I believe that we should celebrate BOTH BBM and CRASH for winning 3 Academy Awards each! I]m pleased that the "love" was equally spread around this year. Sometimes, it can be soooooo one-sided. I hate it when a movie runs away with everything. Just my 2 cents.

Peace.

[Zomby Woof]

5. You didn't start it

Even before the broadcast began, Nini and I were asking each other "If 'Crash' wins, can you imagine the outrage on DU?"

I had to log on to see the carnage, and I was NOT disappointed. It turned out even better than I had expected!

So you are not responsible for the foreseeable.

[Divine Discontent]

9. I wish that were true... but my post really made things crazy

thanks though. and you were right. as it should have been outraged imo. It has cheesy aspects,

BUT, congrats to the makers of Crash.

[Divine Discontent]

33. but can I blame you both for thinking it, and putting into my mind?lol n/t

[mtnsnake]

6. You should apologize to freedomangel82 for using this to take a cheap shot

at her.

[Divine Discontent]

10. my apology for what I feel necessary to apologize for, stands

Freedomangel82's PLETHORA of bizarre and hateful posts stand on their own merit.

[jonnyblitz]

13. what BULLSHIT!!.SHE should be doing the apologizing.

I read through that thread. holy crap!! no further comment. :crazy:

[Divine Discontent]

15. thank you! I appreciate the support... she was way bizarre.

and very combative.


Can you believe Crash was only about an hour and 40 min. long?

That's got to be the shortest best picture story in like 20 years!

All grand epic tales usually take a couple hours or more, and this film is rather short comparatively.

[jonnyblitz]

20. I never saw Crash but I will now...

just to see what the fuss is all about. THAT is why I haven't commented, I didn't see the movie..

[Behind the Aegis]

24. It's not a bad movie...

...but I did see and an OSCAR? I don't think so. I was shocked when I heard it had been nominated. It is great for a diversity training class, but as one of the cinematic hits of the year...no.

[jonnyblitz]

28. did you see Munich? THAT is the one i am curious about...

I am curious to your views on that movie if you did see it..

I liked Brokeback Mountain but I really liked Capote , too..

[Behind the Aegis]

40. I am in backwater Oklahoma...

...the only contender that played here was...you know what, I don't think any of them played in my town. They were in Tulsa, but not here...not even Munich.

I will wait for Munich on DVD. I have seen different opinions on it and its creation, so I will wait and see it on my own.

I don't care to see Capote (I didn't much care for him), but I would like to see the Clooney film and BBM (comes out in April on DVD).

[Maddy McCall]

19. LOL.

Amazing the ignorance, isn't it?

:hi: jb!

[jonnyblitz]

22. we have been "here" with this one before...

I am doing good holding back so far...:crazy: :hi:

[Bluebear]

26. Oh, come on, you know you want to.

:hi:

[jonnyblitz]

30. I much prefer to behave...

you know me. :hug: :hi:

[Divine Discontent]

32. oh!!

you know about what our other DU friend was referring to about gays being blamed for the Bush victory instead of -- blaming Republican operatives for using gays to win?
a la Hitler 1939?

[jonnyblitz]

37. damn i missed that one.nt

[mtnsnake]

29. No it's not bullshit. It's a LOW BLOW using a new thread to mock a poster

in the OP of all places!

[jonnyblitz]

35. i think when somebody behaves as she did, oh well...

I don't have much sympathy.

[FreedomAngel82]

46. STOP ACCUSING ME OF A FALSE CLAIM!

YOU'RE DOING NOTHING MORE THAN SLANDER AND YOU SHOULD STOP IT!

[IsItJustMe]

7. They both had a good message and thats what's important.

[Bluebear]

8. One of the biggest upsets in Oscar history.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060306/ap_on_en_mo/oscars

Not many critics would have foreseen this.

[msgadget]

11. I don't think you intended that to happen

I read your feelings regarding the paucity of gay programming and as I said in another threat, I really thought BBM had as much a chance as the others until I read the disappointment here. Consider this, if you will, yearly there are a host of people/groups who feel as rejected. You're not the first to be disappointed or to see a -phobia or -ism as the cause. As this is the case, to assume out of hand that a 'black' movie winning indicates some sort of pandering shows a lack of allegience or empathy for other minorities and being gay does put you in a minority group, one that would like some love come awards time.

Edit for clarity.

[Divine Discontent]

14. gotcha, ms.gadget! thanks! n/t

[SquireJons]

16. What do you expect in Jesusland?

Of course homophobia is alive and kicking, not just here, but everywhere. However it's really more than just phobia, it's also personal tastes. I haven't seen BBM, and probably won't. I'm not homophobic, but I also don't enjoy watching guys kiss. Sure, they have (or should have) the right to kiss, but I have the right to not watch. I'm sure that factored into the voting. It reminds me a lot of the movie 'Alexander.' The film got lots of marketing and press, but did very poorly at the box office, dispute being a fairly well done historical drama. The movie simply couldn't overcome male homosexuality being one of the co-stars. Why does it surprise gays that straights don't want to watch something that makes them uncomfortable? If I was gay I probably wouldn't go see "Love Story", since it's about a lifestyle that I had rejected.

I'm not saying it's right, it's just understandable.

[Bluebear]

18. If I was gay I probably wouldn't go see "Love Story"

Jon, millions of gays saw Love Story. Trust me.

Gay people can somehow see heterosexual movies and not feel uncomfortable or irrelevant. I don't know why, but that's how things just seem to be.

[Divine Discontent]

we're conditioned that it's normal

so it doesn't bother us. even when I was young teen I felt uncomfortable when I saw gay things because I was told it was bad for so long. We have to break that cycle, mentally, spiritually, and in society America for things to improve. BBM helped that in it's own small way. And that's a great testament to the film, even if it makes 1 million people in America learn (including some gays) that gay love is normal, if it's for you, and that's "normal" for what it IS!

[SquireJons]

36. Gay's, in general are a lot more open minded.

But I wonder why gays don't feel intimidated by straight love stories (and all of the sex orientated advertizing)? It's ironic that the fundies are so whipped up about the 'homosexual agenda' which doesn't really exist, when it's pretty obvious that there is a real 'breeders agenda' that actually does hurt people. Oh, wait, it only hurts gays, and they might not qualify as 'people' to the fundies.

[Bluebear]

41. A good post. nt

[regnaD kciN]

45. Hard to believe...

Jon, millions of gays saw Love Story. Trust me.

I thought gays were known for having good taste! :evilgrin:

[Divine Discontent]

21. SAD but sorta true. and that's too much.

the film has incredibly amazing heartache to showcase and open up the viewer's heart.
I saw MANY older straight couples watching this film (they were easily a quarter of the audience out of 60 or so people), I think it comes down to a lot of people that are older usually don't go to the movies, and they'll watch it on TV someday. If you're not an avid movie goer, gay, a huge romance movie fan, ang lee fan, or someone who sees the controversially films in theaters, you probably didn't go watch this.


I hope it does HUGE DVD #'s.

[cboy4]

17. You say sadly homophobia exists in the Democratic World.

I say sadly homophobia exists in the Democratic Underground World.

How sad, of all places.

You don't need to apologize for the post. It needed to be said.

[Behind the Aegis]

23. Very true!

It is the reason my partner refuses to post her any more. After the re-selection, gays and pro-choice people were blamed left, right, and center for the loss.

Now, we get to see it rear its ugly head again.

What I find particularly sad, is that some liberals thin they are immune from prejudice and bigotry...they are not.

[Divine Discontent]

27. OUCH

I remember those posts, all too well. That infuriated me. Homophobia is in my OWN immediate family and we're 90% Democratic as a family. People mock and ridicule gays and lesbians. They also blame them for things that happen they're unhappy with...

can anyone say, "the Nazi's blamed the gays, too!"

again, sorry your partner isn't on here, but I don't blame em! That was a painful week.

[Behind the Aegis]

42. it was an ugly time.

There were many of us who were pissed beyond belief. I am more upset that some seem to think because they call themselves liberal they are somehow immune to prejudice and bigotry. I have even bee told here that if you are a liberal, you can't be a bigot or prejudiced, only those on the right are (the poster failed to see the irony of his/her own post).

[cboy4]

31. I've never been as disappointed in this place as I am tonight

I completely understand your partner's decision.

[Divine Discontent]

25. well, you make me feel better...

after the fracas calmed down, I felt upset by it all. I realize my disdain is justified however with what I discussed in the two big threads, but I was too quick to call Crash, "lame".

thanks for the incredible support of writing me a message to lift this boy up who was saddened that what I had heard was happening, actually occurred. It bothered me as a gay guy, and sadly, I believe my own faith's followers were without a doubt rooting against the film I hoped would win. That's okay, I've got cboy4 lookin after my back!

bless you.

[cboy4]

34. I've got your back

;)

[Divine Discontent]

39. seriously, that makes me feel 'loved' in it's own way. getting emotional

so I'll call it a night...


My last comments tonight are these, I believe BBM will live on long after the awards. This movie moved so many of us and brings us to better understanding about ourselves, and not being afraid.


If the film even did that for one other person, I am joyful in my heart.

God bless the gays, they are one of the last groups that it's 100% okay to attack in public life at work, on TV, and at church.

Thanks cboy4, if you ever need an ear, you've earned mine.

CHEERS BBM FANS! We were given a great movie to enjoy for our whole life. :hug:

[FreedomAngel82]

47. Oh brother how immature so let me see

if I liked "Crash" and I'm not interested in seeing BBM because the story line doesn't intrest me than that automatically means I'm a homophobic person even though I do help in the fight for gay rights and go up against daily my fellow Christian's? Gee I can't win anywhere!!!! I'm too liberal for Christian's and too Christian for liberals!

[Divine Discontent]

49. you're not too anything for anyone, you're you, climb off the cross

your faith is fine with me! your behavior, sadly is worse than MY own, by far.

just don't ever come onto DU and call people direct NAMES - again, DIRECTLY, you directly call many people names in your hundred or so posts tonight - from a--hole, whiny ass, sore loser, and on.

you just went off on the wrong foot. you were better off just saying, "I only saw Crash, I would think it was a great film and that's why it won, perhaps they wanted to shake things up and not pick what everyone else had already picked", but I CERTAINLY do not take any pride in my initial post which was WAY off base for calling Crash, "lame".

Best wishes to you in the future, I hope you apologize as I did, to the whole board for being ignorant IN posting (see, by placing IN there, I'm not calling myself ignorant, I'm saying what I did was ignorant) such a stupid comment in the post that ignited such bad responses from several people.

peace to you...

[pamela]

38. You're probably right about the older voters.

I don't think they are necessarily homophobic, but it probably wasn't their cup of tea. There are a lot of older voters in the Academy which is probably the reason that the "safer" movies usually win. I actually wouldn't be surprised to hear that a lot of the older voters voted for Capote or Goodnight and Goodluck since they were from that era that appeals to the older demographic.

I saw quite a few of the movies this year- Crash, BBM, Capote, Walk the Line, North Country, Constant Gardener- and really liked all of them. I didn't feel really emotionally invested in any one movie to the point where I would have been upset over the outcome. (With the exception of PSH for Capote-that would have been a crime if he hadn't won.) I'm just sorry to see everyone getting upset over this because overall it struck me as a damn good night for liberals. It's not like one of the Left Behind movies won or anything.

[Mythsaje]

43. But what about Harry Potter?

j/k...

I haven't seen Brokeback Mountain yet, but that's primarily because we only go out to the theaters about once a year. It's just rarely worth the hassle when we can wait a few months and see whatever we want on DVD or On Demand.

As far as homophobia goes--and I saw the comments on this thread--I've gotta say my wife's favorite TV show was Queer As Folk...I don't think we missed a single episode the whole time it was on. I didn't necessarily care for the kissing or the sex scenes, but I liked the characters...even when they were being jerks. And they were all jerks at one time or another.

I didn't even know what Crash WAS. Tells you how up on things I am.

[Zinfandel]

44. Who gives a shit?

[WildEyedLiberal]

48. It's not your fault.....

.... TRUST ME.

[The Magistrate]

50. Locking

The O.P. is calling out another forum member, and is also continuation of a flame-war from another thread.