Let's hear it for the brave men who fought to make abortion legal

[PlanetBev]

I remember those times, and there were a lot of them at the forefront to repeal the old laws. Some names that come to mind from the early days: Bill Baird, Rev. Raymond Moody and Paul Krasner. All the doctors that have been shot and killed by anti-abortion fanatics have been men. An old friend of my named John Kittridge was a clinic escort, a very brave act.

We're going to need guys like this in the future, so let's not trash all men because of this lunacy going on right now. I've talked to a lot of men, including my 85 year old dad, who are freaked out and disgusted about the possiblity of Roe v. Wade being overturned. And I've met a lot of horrible anti-choice women whose attitude toward other women on this topic is merciless.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

1. What is the number for murdered doctors, do you know?

[PlanetBev]

3. I think three

Two in Florida and one in New York.

[OneTwentyoNine]

28. attempted murder here by Operation Rescue nutcase...

Some stupid ass-clown woman who was so infatuated with Randal Terry that she shot a doctor here in Wichita. Good thing she was a lousy shot or he'd be dead. Of course Terry claimed that they don't want that type of violence in OR. Yeah right.....

[wicket]

39. 2 receptionists were murdered in Boston

http://www.plannedparenthood.org/pp2/portal/files/portal/webzine/eyeonextremism/eoe-050222-salvi.xml

[MindPilot]

2. Thanks for that!

I've done a lot of time guarding clinics and standing nose to nose with those fanatical antis. There have been times where I truly felt more afraid facing down the servants of the lord than I ever did in Vietnam.

On edit: I was lucky enough to meet Bill Baird--he came to give a talk at a local campus--a few years ago. (OK, a few is probably more like 20.) I think a number of young people don't understand that it wasn't very many years ago--early 60s--that a married woman could not get birth control without permission from her husband. An unmarried woman of course didn't need birth control; she wasn't having sex.

[PlanetBev]

4. Bless you, Mind Pilot

I've faced down these Jeebus-addled maniacs before, and they scare me to death.

[wryter2000]

5. Kenneth Edelin

In 1973, Edelin worked as the chief resident in obstetrics at Boston City Hosptial. Performing abortions after the Roe v. Wade decision, Edelin was indicted for manslaughter in 1974 when he surgically terminated a pregnancy. Convicted on February 15, 1975 and sentenced to a one-year probation, Edelin's case drew national attention. Edelin appealed the decision and the Supreme Judicial Court of Massachusetts overturned the conviction on December 17, 1976.

http://www.thehistorymakers.com/biography/biography.asp?bioindex=1011&category=medicalMakers

[PlanetBev]

6. Can't believe I forgot about Kenneth Edelin

I haven't thought about him in a long time.

He was one of the greats!

[CTyankee]

22. Edelman still speaks publicly about his ordeal

He describes how he tried to save a young woman who was dying from an illegal abortion. He said "I watched her as she died." We were all crumpled in tears by the time he was through with his remarks. I'd like to record it and send it to the state legislators in SD and MS.

[Warpy]

7. Prior to the legalization of early abortion in 1974, ministers

were the ones in the forefront to legalize and regulate abortion. They knew first hand what illegal abortion did to women because they'd been called in to emergency wards frequently to minister to butchered, bleeding and dying young church members. They knew the horror of illegal abortion, of punitive laws, of denying women the right to determining their own lives and the basic human right to defend their bodies against unwanted pregnancy and childbirth.

Everyone forgets the role the clergy played in the legalization of abortion in the first place, their horror stories that swayed the Supreme Court, their care for dying women before the country went sane.

[BlueIris]

8. And let's not construe trashing Patriarchy with trashing "all men."

Especially those who only want to keep some forms of abortion legal so they won't have to take responsibility for preventing pregnancy the way most men and most of society expect women to--as well as the vast majority of them who remain willfully and callously ignorant about the ways our health and bodies are brutalized just so we can enjoy the "privilege" of sex without pregnancy or just so we can continue living if we find ourselves the victim of unintended conception. If men want credit for defending or protecting choice, they can start defending and protecting choice. Then they can start doing their share of the work to keep infringements upon the human rights of women from remaining the norm around the world.

[BoneDaddy]

12. Jesus Christ on a stick

I am getting really fucking tired of this mantra I hear from men hating women. Men aren't responsible, men this, men that. Most of the men I know are good, loving, strong people and do not deserve this global assault from women who have made it their life's work to demonize men and everything masculine.

Enough already. If you are attacking a person, attack them based upon their issues and not their gender. Do the very fucking thing you ask in return from men. Otherwise you portray yourself as totally irrational and whatever good in your message you have will be lost.

I have spent my adult life in support of women's rights. I married a feminist and will march my fucking ass down to Washington if they go after Roe v Wade any time in the near future. But this kind of untrue, totally insulting and illogical rhetoric serves nothing constructive and offers no kind of healing between men and women. It only serves to further divide us and keep us separate.

The funny thing is when you behave like this, you act like the very men you claim to decry. This idea of women are pure, men are scum is not only ridiculous, you perpetuate the cycle that keeps us apart.

[RazzleDazzle]

15. Oh, you poor martyred soul

It sure seems to me that any TRULY self-respecting woman-supporting man would automatically exclude himself from complaints about men-as-a-class and simply know he is one of many (but not many enough) exceptions to the rule and the record, and not personalize things to the point he has to erupt in an unnecessary, divisive and completely ridiculous outburst like you just have.

YOU are NOT all men. You are one man. You don't fit the description? Then fine, you don't fit the description. No fucking need to turn the whole thread on its ear, the whole discussion around to make it all about you, as men-as-a-class are so fucking prone to do because they just can't stand for a minute an honest and true and pertinent discussion by women about women's issue. "Attention here, on ME!! I'm the one who is supposed to get the attention; I'm the MAN here. You need to focus on ME."

Well, I call bullshit on that.

and oh, about this: you perpetuate the cycle that keeps us apart.

Translation: "If you want our cooperation, you have to do things our way. Like always."

And about this: Most of the men I know are good, loving, strong people and do not deserve this global assault from women who have made it their life's work to demonize men and everything masculine.

That may be true, but women still aren't equal, are they? Or do you think we're "equal ENOUGH" for government work or somethin'? IOW: if women still aren't equal, just whose fault do you think that is, hmmmm? Our own, no doubt. 'Cause we're shrill and "perpetuate the cycle that keeps us apart," and so forth.

Maybe your wife buys that shit, but I sure as hell don't, and hopefully she'll wise up.

[BoneDaddy]

17. Total bullshit

Give me a fucking break. I am tired of the same fascist thinking from people like you who do not tolerate criticisms about any group EXCEPT the ones you don't like. That level of cognitive dissonance is staggering. YOu have crystallized your personal victimhood to such a point that you have become the abuser, the "male" you despise.

It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

And yes I do take offense to an all or none statement about MEN. Why? because it is an all or none statement, a generality, a stereotype that you wouldn't tolerate about any group you put affiliation with.

And I will turn the thread on it's ear because I am tired of this type of bullshit bias that apparently it's ok to have if you are a member of an oppressed group. Bullshit. and I will call you on it. See you are so used to thinking that your rant is intimidating, it's not.

I don't think women are equal enough and btw if I didn't think of you as an equal I wouldn't be fighting with you right now. I would be kissing your ass or out right dismissing you.

AS for who's fault that is, is that a trick question? See that is your modus operandi, finding blame and abdication of any accountability. Men=total accountability and Women= no accountability. That is such nonsense and you know it.

[RazzleDazzle]

18. First clue (or is it the 2nd or 10th? I've lost count):

YOu have crystallized your personal victimhood to such a point that you have become the abuser, the "male" you despise.

The language of the right wing, and most especially the language of abusers. I love it when they try to blame and shame people who object to being victimized and oppressed with an attempt to turn the tables on them and somehow make them responsible for said oppression/victimization.

Nice try, but you fail. Oh, you can sputter and fume and have outburst after unflattering outburst, but you're on the wrong side, and it becomes increasingly clear you're no friend of women.

AS for who's fault that is, is that a trick question? See that is your modus operandi, finding blame and abdication of any accountability. Men=total accountability and Women= no accountability. That is such nonsense and you know it.

LOL. I guess for people like you it IS a trick question. How funny. But yes, men have near total accountability since the world is STILL run by men. Sexism won't be defeated without them, just as racism will never be eliminated without white people ceding their white privilege. Yeah, that fact makes you pretty damned accountable.

Sure women should (MUST!) demand more. I'm embarrassed and upset that there are so many women here at DU who do our cause actual harm rather than help at all, and are bullheaded about it when called on their own sexist behavior. But they're not the ones who CAUSED sexism and the oppression of women.

Here's another clue for ya. Consider it a gift:

When Clarence Thomas had his outburst during his confirmation hearings about how unfair and wrong it all was (what he was being put through as a result of Anita Hill coming forward and testifying), and accused the Senate Judiciary Committee of a "high tech lynching," all the while whining and crying about what a terrible thing it was to put his FAMILY through all that -- there was a caller to C-Span who identified himself as a Presbyterian (or was it Methodist) minister who works with abused kids. He said, "This is abuser behavior," this mock outrage, this trying to blame others and turn the tables and deflect criticism or blame back onto those making the accusations.

Your (mock?) and over-the-top outrage, your attempt to subtly deflect blame back on those victimized, your attempt to tell ME how I "should" behave in order to curry favor with you, and so forth all belie your true attitudes and underlying beliefs. IOW: What you do speaks so loudly I cannot hear what you say. (Mark Twain, I think.)

[BoneDaddy]

25. um... nope

"crystallized personal victimhood" I used that phrase because I have watched a trend among groups with legitimate concerns of being persecuted turn around and act just like the abusers and then justify it because they were the victim..

This is not solely my personal view as it is a uncommon but observed behavior in the psychological field. People justify their abusive behavior because they believe they have a right to act that way cause it happened to them. Look it up.

So in your mind you don't believe you are accountable for anything because you are a woman... you tell me how that empowers you, unless you get your power thru being the victim. Yet, all men are totally accountable cause they happen to be the gender with more power. That has got to be the biggest cop out I have ever heard. Time to grow up.

You mention Clarence Thomas. I think he is a scumbag and support what you said about him. This is a clear cut specific case. I am talking about YOUR GENERALIZATIONS AND WARPED THINKING. You take absolutely no accountability for what you say or do, yet expect me to take it all.

Wake up!

[donsu]

29. kick

nt

[Le Taz Hot]

19. And as a feminist

who FOUGHT MY ASS OFF IN THE 1970'S to ensure a woman's right to choose, to obtain birth control, to establish her own credite, independent of a husband, ad nauseu, I heartily THANK YOU for your attitude and efforts, past, present and future. The reason THOUSANDS of us left N.O.W. in the late 70's was due to the men-bashing which became unexplicably acceptable in the late 1970's.

For all you neuvo, pseudo-feminists, YOU get a clue! You're talking to one of the originals now and there were LOTS and LOTS of men then and now who will stand with us and fight. BoneDaddy, ignore these sexist, hate-filled, male-bashing posters -- they're not worth OUR time.

[tsuki]

24. So did I, leave N.O.W. Same reason. n/t

[BoneDaddy]

26. Thank you from the bottom of my heart

I can't tell you how good it is to hear your words, I truly truly appreciate it. YOu are great!!

[donsu]

30. I was there too and yes a lot of men helped us but "a lot" is still little

when compared with the percent of men who didn't fight for us

[DELUSIONAL]

9. Women can be women's worst enemies --

One of my college professors was on the front lines -- in the Pre Roe v. Wade days. As a psychologist he testified on the mental health of women who wanted an abortion.

Bruce C. Ogilvie, Ph.D., Pioneer in the area of Sport Psychology, Professor Emeritus, Psychology, San Jose State University.

And then the screaming bitches who want to force every woman into the bare foot and pregnant mode.

The fundies also want to go the Taliban way and not allow women to be educated -- or limit women's education to learning how to please and serve their men.

[RazzleDazzle]

16. Yeah, and those who refer to ANY woman as "bitch" don't help

a bit either.

[Le Taz Hot]

20. Oh, criminee!

Butch up! If you get your panties in a wad over someone using the "B" word you're not even ready to play with the big girls. Try getting your head bashed in in a picket line and get back to me.

[DELUSIONAL]

23. a bitch is a bitch --

And there are a whole lot of bitches -- Laura Bush comes to mind -- Barbara Bush is another -- and the the whole list of dumb twits who have not mind of their own.

[donsu]

31. kick

nt

[Minnesota Libra]

10. You are right, all men are not bad, someactually support us.......

.....women. :toast: O8)

[BoneDaddy]

13. a helluva lot more than you can imagine...

see my above post for appropriate rant.

[Maddy McCall]

11. I must have missed the universal-male-bashing posts.

I agree--we need all the allies we can get, male and female.

I will say about the abortion battle in Mississippi, though, that the anti-choice crowd is mostly made up of women--stupid women who have no idea what it's like to be liberated, because they choose to "submit" to their husbands. They are the ones who pushed for the state legislation outlawing abortions--the male representatives are doing what their female constituents asked for. These women will give up their rights, work for half of what men make, and vote for people who least represent their interest every time.

I respect any man who sees me (women in general) as a human on the same playing field as him. I doubly respect any man who'll go to battle with me to see that I have the rights that others would neglect me.

[BoneDaddy]

14. Thankfully

someone with some real sense. Thanks.

[blondeatlast]

21. Here is to my beloved father, John R. Harrington.

My father, raised a devout Roman Catholic, marched with my mother in support of abortion rights, and did so well AFTER Roe v. Wade was decided. He once accompanied me to a march, even having had heart surgery only a week prior.

He wasn't anywhere near the only man I remember at the marches.

Here is to them all; we need to remember their strength now more than ever.

[BoneDaddy]

27. your dad

sounds like a great man. And thanks to all the women who stand in solidarity with men, who are intellectually, psychologically and adult enough to not just see gender as black and white, right or wrong. WE will be the ones who forge ahead and work towards REAL equality and justice and healing.

[donsu]

32. I prefer the other way round - thanks to men who stand in solidarity

with women

[BoneDaddy]

34. Absolutely....

and you are most welcome. It was phrased the way it was due to the number of anti-male comments I have seen from some women in here. If it doesn't apply to you, thanks alot.

[donsu]

35. guess you can't thank me as I diss males regularly

nt

[BoneDaddy]

36. I appreciate your honesty

But as a "liberal" you can't see the inconsistencies of that approach?

[donsu]

37. as a feminist I think you need more consciousness raising

nt

[BoneDaddy]

38. I don't think you are a feminist

I think you are an extremist who is not only illogical in your conclusions, you are morally corrupt.

[donsu]

40. laughing madly

nt

[BoneDaddy]

42. No worries

I am laughing too

[sarahlee]

33. Building the Foundation for the Underground Railroad

In case we need to help women get to a place where abortions are still legal.

http://roedepot.com/index.php

If you have not signed the Planned Parenthood petiton, please do so now.
http://www.ppaction.org/campaign/roberts_roeCall

[THUNDER HANDS]

41. I know Bill Baird

i did a story on him for my school paper a few years ago and for the small-town newspaper i worked at. I haven't talked to him in a couple of years, I wonder what he's up to. I know he was planning on writing a book.