LA Times Critic Nails It: Brokeback Lost Because Of Bigotry

[ruggerson]

And to every DU'er who responded in a hostile fashion to the various Brokeback/Crash threads, read this Turan column in its entirety.

Really read it.

Because this is not just about a movie, nor is it about just a statue, nor is it about just an award.

It's about an ongoing, deep seated, pervasive illness in America that threatens to rip us in two. And it unfortunately has been virulently on display right here at DU.

Hollywood, whether you like it or not, moves our culture and affects our politics. There is an enormous difference between a gay kid, a little boy or girl, growing up today, with Will and Grace and Real World and Brokeback Mountain and a gay kid growing up in the evil, oppressive vaccuum of the sixties and seventies.

Now you can insult Kenneth Turan with the same idiocies you've thrown at all of us, but this is his business: he works in this town and deals with these people every day. He is the most important film critic in Los Angeles. He knows the movie business inside and out, and I humbly suggest, many of you do not.

And he is not alone here in his views. Many astute Hollywood observers are saying the exact same thing he's saying.

This issue is not about me personally or any other DU'er, gay or straight. This is about a human rights issue that America has not yet resolved.

And like it or not, we won't shut up about it. Just like we won't shut up about racism or sexism or the various crimes of the Bush regime.

We won't shut up, because that gay kid, that little boy or girl, even today, is depending on us not to shut up.

We're the only thing they've got.

http://theenvelope.latimes.com/awards/oscars/env-turan5mar05,0,5359042.story

Breaking no ground

By Kenneth Turan, Times Staff Writer

Why 'Crash' won, why 'Brokeback' lost and how the academy chose to play it safe.

Sometimes you win by losing, and nothing has proved what a powerful, taboo-breaking, necessary film "Brokeback Mountain" was more than its loss Sunday night to "Crash" in the Oscar best picture category.

Despite all the magazine covers it graced, despite all the red-state theaters it made good money in, despite (or maybe because of) all the jokes late-night talk show hosts made about it, you could not take the pulse of the industry without realizing that this film made a number of people distinctly uncomfortable.

More than any other of the nominated films, "Brokeback Mountain" was the one people told me they really didn't feel like seeing, didn't really get, didn't understand the fuss over. Did I really like it, they wanted to know. Yes, I really did.

In the privacy of the voting booth, as many political candidates who've led in polls only to lose elections have found out, people are free to act out the unspoken fears and unconscious prejudices that they would never breathe to another soul, or, likely, acknowledge to themselves. And at least this year, that acting out doomed "Brokeback Mountain."

For Hollywood, as a whole laundry list of people announced from the podium Sunday night and a lengthy montage of clips tried to emphasize, is a liberal place, a place that prides itself on its progressive agenda. If this were a year when voters had no other palatable options, they might have taken a deep breath and voted for "Brokeback." This year, however, "Crash" was poised to be the spoiler.

(more)

[Skittles]

1. I still say Good Night and Good Luck was better than both of them

and I saw all five movies

[ncteechur]

80. I haven't seen any of them but I don't get to vote anyway--BUT

The job of the academy is not make political statements, it is to vote for what they feel like is the best picture (or other categories) regardless of their message. How soon we forget about Philadelphia--I believe he depicted a man with AIDS who happened to be gay. If more academy members thought Crash was better then so be it. If they had thought GN&GL was better, it should have won. A film is not the best picture because of its message although that may count. I didn't think Titanic was a particularly good film but it won. I liked the Prince of Tides over Silence of the Lambs but I didn't get my way. I'm quite sure there are those who believe the fact that Hustle and Flow did not win was because of racism. Only one picture could win. The academy spoke. That is it.

[dorkulon]

86. YES n/t

[ProudDad]

98. Hear, Hear!

[muntrv]

2. Not that

"Crash" is an endorsement of conservatism, but I too thought the academy was gutless in not voting for "Brokeback Mountain."

[qanda]

3. Huh?

:shrug:

[TallahasseeGrannie]

4. Here's a question for you

what do you call it when males see men kissing on tv (as in Six Feet Under) and can't look, cover their eyes with their hands?

Is that homophobia? Bigotry? Cultural taboo?

What do you think?

[ruggerson]

30. I've tried to think of an answer to your question

and the honest one is I don't know.

I strongly suspect that it's societal indoctrination.

When I first came out at age 17, I went to a couple of gay bars and saw guys kissing each other and it looked weird to me - I had never seen it before, and even though I knew where my attactions lay, the visual still seemed bizarre and foreign. So if I was so indoctrinated by society to see this visual as disturbing, imagine how a straight guy would react.

When the day comes that kids are routinely exposed to innocent images of same sex affection, just as they are to opposite sex affection now, I think the cultural indoctrination will slowly disappear.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

33. Thanks for that insight

it really helps me understand to think that a gay person, when confronted with images we don't usually see in public, would also feel a bit strange with it. I agree that it seems more like social indoctrination. Plus we are more used to women kissing because that's such a common porn theme.

Very interesting issues..would make a good doctoral dissertation, I think!

[mikeanike]

54. hey man

I'm straight and I hate seeing hetero couples making out in public... we live in a society that is still working out its puritanical roots. PDA are simply not fun for anyone to see straight or gay. I do find it very fascinating that you were turned off by what you saw. That would make a really interesting psych study!

[BoneDaddy]

34. Combination of things

Cultural homophobia, sexual insecurity, inability to manage conflicting emotions or thoughts, immaturity, displaced anger or hate, religious inculcation, fear, etc...

[HardWorkingDem]

42. So many people leave out the "nature" aspect of it...

By this I mean that men are visual animals, more so than women, for a straight male, it is simply not visually stimulating for one to watch two men kissing in a sexual nature.

Just because a straight male is not excited by two gay males showing affection does not mean that the person is full of "Cultural homophobia, sexual insecurity, inability to manage conflicting emotions or thoughts, immaturity, displaced anger or hate, religious inculcation, fear, etc...".................

[BoneDaddy]

45. i agree

I know men who are heterosexual, support gay rights but are uncomfortable with homosexual expression. I liken it to the uncomfortability that we all have experienced when we step out of our comfort zones. That doesn't necessarily mean it is homophobia.
Example: I know men and women who are hetero who are simply uncomfortable with any display of affection and would react similarly if they saw a hetero couple in leather in simulated sex. They are just much more reserved. You are right, not everything needs to be pathologized. Thanks for pointing that out.

[AllegroRondo]

48. my thoughts on it

When men see two people kissing (men, women, whatever) on TV, we tend to visualize ourselves as one of the participants. So, man kissing woman = great, I can do that. Woman kissing woman = OK, I could be either one of them. Man kissing man = huh? I dont think I want to do that.

on edit - this explains why hetero men have no problem with watching lesbian porn, but no desire to watch two men.

[Cronus Protagonist]

57. I do that when I see anyone kissing on the screen

I don't care what gender or sexual orientation they are, or are playing.

What would you call that?

:)

[SaveElmer]

77. Same feeling I got...

When I saw my Grandparents kiss...glad they did it, but I didn't want to watch!!!

[Danieljay]

5. I don't buy it. The movie was groundbreaking and good..but not THAT good

in my opinion. My girlfriend and I both enjoyed the movie but neither thought of it as a definite Oscar contender.

[file83]

8. When I saw it - I immediately thought "This movie will go straight to DVD"

- I didn't think there was anything special about it. In fact, I didn't like it that much - I didn't care about the characters AT ALL. I kept thinking "This is a movie about the stupidest people in L.A." Racism doesn't happen because people pick up hitchhikers and then accidently shoot them.

Crash tried to cover WAY too much territory - it was a movie that had no story - just a series of people doing stupid things and acting in very predictable ways.

[file83]

6. Crash is a world we already know - a story we've already heard and

it didn't offer any insights that aren't already learned. It was a portal to a part of the world we are already familiar with - it was a glance out the front window or like flipping on the evening news.

Brokeback Mountain rocked the country with a NEW way to examine ourselves and society - giving us a glimpse into a world most of us are not familiar with - gay or straight. It's the most original and impactful movie of the year. It should have won.

[FARAFIELD]

7. Flame if you want

Im an expert at Oscar History, and there is Zero, NONE, history of the Academy making a political statement or shying away from making some movie a best picture winner. Feeling like they "owe" something to somebody is much more likely to get someone an award. In this case, Crash was a better movie (for me i thought Munich AND good night and good luck were better) AND crash was a movie about Los Angeles, something the "base" voters could get behind. Ang Lee, took a teriffic chance in making the movie and Hollywood, supported him, and gave them the recognition. Somewhat like Scroceses Nomination simply for making "last temptaion". I think people are way off on Brokeback, it was a good movie that was reward perhaps more than it should have been. It simply wasnt the best movie of the year and thats all. Hollywood has no problem rewarding risque themes anyway "midnight cowboy" which was rated X of all things WON in 1969 and it had gay themes. Hollywood got it right, hollywood never annointed Brokeback the best picture. The right wing simply said that hollywood did, clearly the voters didnt. And by the way, this wasnt even as big an upset as when Shakespere in Love beat Saving Private Ryan, in fact not even close.

[Pithy Cherub]

22. People underestimate how much the film industry notices details.

A portion of Crash was filmed in San Pedro, right outside of LA. Brokeback was filmed in Canada. Crash was more of a "home team" movie. If Team Brokeback had it to do all over again, I would bet their marketing campaign would have been significantly different. Crash cleaned their clocks on the sophisticated marketing campaign and was reaching out to the Academy voters until the very last possible moment to win. Matt Dillon was on local LA TV on the entertainment shows. Dillon was booked everywhere. The C-Team went all out and Crash's marketing effort will be remembered come Oscar time next year.

The Academy voters famously split their votes, Ang Lee for Best Director and Crash for Best Picture. This has occurred many times in Oscar's history.

[Throd]

40. San Pedro is a part of Los Angeles

shouldn't be, but is n/t

[Neshanic]

91. Well history buff, Falwell and gang around in 1969?

Think not. 1969 was a different planet. We live in almost a theocratic state. In 1969 80% of the audience was stoned.

All the more reason that the pressures not to award BBM were tremendous, and if it did win, more the milestone than a drug movie/hustler movie,(read not gay)in the end of a shitty decade that begat the evil beings and backlash that currently rule.

[Maven]

9. This sums it up

I don't care how much trouble "Crash" had getting financing or getting people on board, the reality of this film, the reason it won the best picture Oscar, is that it is, at its core, a standard Hollywood movie, as manipulative and unrealistic as the day is long.

For "Crash's" biggest asset is its ability to give people a carload of those standard Hollywood satisfactions but make them think they are seeing something groundbreaking and daring. It is, in some ways, a feel-good film about racism, a film you could see and feel like a better person, a film that could make you believe that you had done your moral duty and examined your soul when in fact you were just getting your buttons pushed and your preconceptions reconfirmed.

Exactly. The movie was nothing more than a standard ego massage for outwardly forward-thinking people.

[file83]

11. Plus, Crash employed a LOT of big actors. I'm sure the industry likes

to see that kind of movie be made!

[zanne]

51. The first time I heard of the movie "Crash"..

was Sunday morning, when someone on CNN announced that it just might be a "surprise" winner. Yeah.

[Guaranteed]

74. Yup. Amazing article,

wasn't it?

On edit: True introspection takes amazing strength that I'm not sure most people possess.

[jackpan1260]

10. Good movies fail to win awards all the time. Awards are based on OPINION.

Sheesh, people need to relax about this stuff.

[marmar]

13. Agreed. When I saw the title of this post I thought....

Oh Geez, here we go again. As if all the vitriol and personal attacks yesterday weren't enough.

[ruggerson]

15. And you'll notice which side of the aisle they came from

which is exactly the point. And why the movie touched such a chord. And also why it lost.

[marmar]

19. Actually I remember a few from both sides (not from you!!!)

I just don't understand why it degenerated the way it did. I don't know why people were attacking someone for offering an opinion that homophobia affected the Best Picture choice, just like I didn't understand why at least one poster said those who didn't think so didn't "know what the fuck they were talking about." It just got soooo ugly.

[ruggerson]

24. A similar scenario erupted after the 2004 election

With a number of people here "blaming" the loss on gay folks.

It was a real wakeup call to see that there is still a tremendous amount of homophobia amongst people who like to think of themselves as progressives.

This, of course, is over a far, far less important event... but a cultural touchstone nonetheless. And one that seems to evoke a similarly virulent reaction in some of our compatriots here.

[marmar]

28. I definitely agree with you there...

I was a little surprised at the number of people I assumed to be progressives who, at least verbally, are very supportive of equality for gays and lesbians BUT who had weird reactions to Brokeback Mountain. Without directly saying it, it became quite clear they were uncomfortable with the thought of two men in a relationship with all the passion and pain of a heterosexual one. (They're quite often shocked that I - a heterosexual African American male - not only saw it, but went to to see it alone).
I think there are definitely a lot of generally open-minded people, many of whom are supportive of gay/lesbian rights, who internally think there is something abnormal about homosexuality and are uncomfortable with it, and sometimes that latent homophobia does creep out. The "gay-as-comic relief" fare such as Queer Eye or Will & Grace is acceptable, but one that challenges them to accept gay characters in serious relationships with sex, pain and anger is a tougher sell. I've spent countless hours arguing with people about why they should go see this movie.

[ruggerson]

29. You get it. Totally.

You nailed what bugs a lot of straight people subliminally about this movie. It presents a gay relationship, for the very first time cinematically, as being equal to and powerful as a straight one.

A lot of straight people are comfortable with the stereotype of what they perceive to be gays: mincing, caustic - Hoffman's portrayal of Capote. It is what they feel comfortable with. It's how they can DEAL with the idea of people being gay.

Two normal, rugged guys who happen to be gay and fall in love with each other? That upsets the little box that lots of putatively "liberal" straights put gays in.

That's what disturbed so many people about this film. It forced them to address their OWN prejudices and worldview and turned their notions and comfort level about gay people upside down.

[melissaf]

31. but surely

"Brokeback Mountain" isn't the first film _ever_ to realistically portray a gay relationship. It may be the first to get so much exposure, but I'm sure there are other smaller movies out there that are just as unflinching about showing gay couples actually showing desire for one another, rather than relying on a bunch of "gay" character traits.

I'm still not convinced "Brokeback Mountain" is the Gay Film Philosopher's Stone...

[ruggerson]

32. It's the first mainstream one

there was one other, that was rather formulaic, about twenty five years ago starring Harry Hamlin. It basically destroyed his film career.

[tenshi816]

89. Have you seen

the 1986 British film "My Beautiful Laundrette", starring Daniel Day-Lewis before he became famous in the USA? It's a gay love story set in Thatcherite Britain, between a neo-nazi type (Day-Lewis) and a young Pakistani man. If you haven't seen it yet, I highly recommend it (assuming you can find it - I don't know if it's on DVD release in the States). The film was originally made for television in the UK but once it was completed, it was decided to go for a theatrical release.

More info at the link: http://www.screenonline.org.uk/film/id/443819/index.html

Edited for typo

[TallahasseeGrannie]

36. Bingo

I think you nailed it.

You know, I am a polyanna in most things but recently I have begun to have the suspicion, even the fear, that homosexuality will never be completely accepted.

I always assumed everyone was like me...once I was exposed to real human beings who were gay, not just abstract "gay pride" types, I saw them as just regular folks. But it isn't happening, even among my non-RW friends. And my church has split right down the middle, with folks I previously respected saying "I don't care if Bill IS a nice guy, and so is his partner, it is just WRONG. It is UNNATURAL." I have argued until my blood pressure shot up. And it is not just adults. I teach middle school and I listen. The worst thing one can say to another is that something is "gay."

I wish I had a crystal ball and could see the future. I mean, you know, 200 years ago it was okay to own human beings. Maybe it will change. But there is a long, long difficult road ahead for gay men and women and I don't envy them.

[Guaranteed]

72. Great post. nt

[MichiganVote]

12. I thought both movies had a good message

[SONUVABUSH]

14. I'm glad

I personally do not have any interest in movies about homosexual cowboys.

[kurth]

16. Well, the Academy has spoken

Yep, the "Academy" of people with Ph.D.s in movie watching and popcorn eating has spoken... But hey, who cares about what the Academy says anyway.

[CBGLuthier]

17. Is Roger Ebert homophobic?

He picked Crash as his number one film.

Brokeback Mountain placed 5th on his list.

Film critique/evaluation is a subjective thing.

Brokeback Mountain was honored by being nominated. The directing and writing were honored. It did damn well at many of the awards shows.

[Karenca]

20. Brokeback won Best Picture at the British Academy Film Awards nt

[onenote]

38. which doesn't prove anything

Since 1990, the British Academy and the US Academy have agreed on the Best Picture award less than half the time. In recent years, the Best Picture in the US went to Million Dollar Babies, Lord of the Rings (III), Chicago, and Beautiful Mind. The British Best Picture for those same years went to Aviator, Lord of the Rings (III), Pianist, and Lord of the Rings (II). If you can draw some universal truth from those votes, I'm curious to know what it is.

onenote

[Karenca]

76. The Brits are more progressive than Americans.

(I'm not referring to progresive Liberals.)

The Untied States are going back in time.
I don't have to write a list to compare.

[Pavulon]

18. Blah, Like John said

Martin scorsese has never won. Putting him in company with hitchcock and Kubrick.

[dorkulon]

88. Exactly

These awards shows are always wrong. The Monkees won Grammys; Hendrix didn't. Too much importance is being attributed to this stupid awards show.

[The Backlash Cometh]

21. So you find ONE person that shares your opinion and suddenly

you're an expert. If that writer is gay, then I wouldn't say he is objective in his matter.

All the things that Liberals should be fighting over and it's gay rights vs. all other prejudices.

I'll repeat it again. NEITHER ISSUE IS PLAYING IT SAFE. The Oscar voters were not trying to play it safe to keep right-wing America happy. Both movies are going to piss them off, so I think that excuse is lame.

[QC]

25. Only heterosexuals can be objective about gay films?

Does that mean that only gays can speak objectively about the plethora of heterosexual romances that Hollywood churns out like a Guangdong assembly line?

[The Backlash Cometh]

26. "Crash" was not a love story.

It was more a "Where is the love" story?

[Cronus Protagonist]

58. Brokeback was not a love story

It was a tragedy about men who lie to their wives about their cheating ways, and perhaps it might have also been about bigotry in flyover country years back. Not much love in it at all. Lust, yes, love, no.

IMHO, of course :)

[QC]

59. Have you seen the movie? n/t

[IndianaGreen]

61. Gays are forced to lie all the time, thanks to hetero culture!

IMHO, of course :)

If gays stay in the closet, they must lie. If they come out of the closet, they are hated for coming out.

Now, which would heteros prefer? Lobotomy for gays? Suicide? How about a pink triangle and a trip to Guantanamo?

[Cronus Protagonist]

62. It's not a good idea, IMHO, to lump all heteros in with the haters

Everyone I know has no trouble with gay people period. I have to travel to find homophobes, and I would have to travel further afield than tinseltown, which is built on the backs of gay people.

YMMV.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

37. I haven't seen the movie

so I am speaking in generalities. I don't think a film should get best picture because it explores un-explored territory. I think best picture has the best plot, casting, character development, theme, cinematography, yada, yada, yada.

Groundbreaking makes for box office sales. But not necessarily quality.

[uppityperson]

96. Exactly. It can get other awards and recognition for groundbreaking

and society themes, but this alone is not enough for best picture. Many movies have important things inthem, but don't get any Oscars because the overall quality isn't as good as anothers. I can think a film is not #1 for many reasons, and just because I don't think any particular film is not #1 does not mean I am homophobic or heterophobic or whatever anti-whatever is portrayed in the film. Many of us can look at a movie and judge it by more than 1 thing.

[sadiesworld]

64. Actually, many RW radio hosts were very enthusiastic

about Crash. Others (and Faux) conspicuously omitted Crash from their "out-of-touch-with-mainstream-America-librul-oscar-contender" rants.

[AusTexDem]

23. Excellent post. I bet you still get plenty of insults. what a shame.

[leftofthedial]

27. maybe Hollywood will stop making films of social signifigance altogether

or just make one a year so no one's ox gets gored

I don't know whether bigotry had anything to do with the result. Both films were outstanding.

[onenote]

35. turan's opinion...nothing more

Turan has his opinion. That's it. There is no proof, no evidence, no anything on which anyone can establish that Brokeback lost because of bigotry. Indeed, even Turan's argument fails to make the case for bigotry; rather it simply makes the case for "safety"...the same "safety" that may have led some voters to prefer Crash to Munich, for example.

The fact is that Turan has no more idea than you or I as to what the vote was. He assumes, based on nothing more than his own opinion and speculation, that voters who were uncomfortable with BBM voted for Crash. Maybe some did. Maybe some voted for one of the other nominees, like Capote.

Here is the one thing we do know: BBM and Crash each took home one of the major awards, Best Director for BBM and Best Picture for Crash. Now, if "bigotry" was at work here, the same folks who were unwilling to vote for BBM for Best Picture also would have eschewed voting for Ang Lee as best director. So, what seems likely is that a number of the non-bigoted folks that voted to give Lee the Best Director award for BBM switched their votes to Crash, or another film, for Best Picture. Why would they split their votes? You'd have to psychoanalyze every voter to know, but the most likely answer, IMHO, is that they were faced with two deserving movies and decided that Lee, who was nominated for Best Director for Crouching Tiger but didn't win, was "owed" the Best Director movie and Crash, as a "hometown" movie, should get best picture.

Yes, some Academy voters may have been uncomfortable with BBM. Some may have been uncomfortable with Munich. Or Capote. Or Crash. And some voters may have voted FOR BBM because of its content, just as some chose not to vote for it because of its content. There are nearly 6000 eligible voters in the Academy. They are not all fuddy-duddy conservatives (if they were, how the hell did Its Hard Out There Bein' a Pimp" get best song?

Turan is entitled to his opinion. But that's all it is. And frankly, I don't think it withstands scrutiny.

onenote

[PBass]

39. Agree, just one person's opinion

This seems to be getting a little over-analyzed. It's just the fricking Oscars... awards shows are crap to begin with. A couple of years ago "Chicago" won best picture and it was a buttload of trite crap (good looking movie, but so empty and light weight).

Brokeback Mountain won 3 Oscars, that's a pretty good showing. If that's not good enough for some people, well I don't know how to respond to that.

[LeFleur1]

41. McMurtry

I will wait for the DVD of BBM for two reasons.

1. A friend's review: "There were godawful long silent stares." "It was just plain boring." "It wasn't a love story. The plot was that they screwed up lives of people around them rather than courageously showing their love for one another, or even just leaving other people alone and quietly loving one another. I came away thinking they were cowards."
I suppose any criticism of this movie, given honestly, will be seen as homophobic, but the person who gave the above opinion is far from homophobic. She gave a critique of a movie.

2. Although McMurtry has done some great screenwriting. He does tend toward boring if he is not very careful. Some of his books are terribly boring. Think Lonesome Dove. The TV series was teeth gritting boring in spots.

Okay. Crucify me.

As to which movie is best? Who knows, but I do know Capote and Good Luck and Good Night would be wonderful subjects for a movie. I'm looking forward to seeing what was done with their stories. I saw Crash and liked it very much. It would have been a documentary if it had been true. That's the way the story was told.

[PBass]

43. As to your friends review, she kind of missed the point (IMO)

that homosexuals have to repress their feelings, in an intolerant society. IMO that was the main theme of the movie... the damage that intolerance does, even at suboconcious levels.

If you didn't find the movie intriguing enough to pay 10 bucks to see, that's perfectly fine.

I saw it (B Mountain) and thought it was good.

[HardWorkingDem]

44. Disagree with bigotry aspect...and think...

that Capote and Brokeback Mountain split the votes that allowed for Crash to win Best Picture. Also, as someone all ready alluded to, Crash is about LA - the movie business loves movies about LA, their world and their environment. I would love to see the vote tallies because I would not be surprised if Good Night, Good Luck was number two and Brokeback Mountain was number three.

[Snivi Yllom]

46. BBM won a ton of awards. The bitching should cease already.

What a non-story.

[bbmykel]

49. Not to me

It's not a non-story to me.

No film had won as many pre-Oscar awards as Brokeback Mountain. None. No film had won the Producer's Guild, Director's Guild and Writer's Guild awards and not won the Oscar--until now.

In Premiere magazine's annual consolidation and ranking of critical opinion on the top 100 releases of the year, all the Oscar contenders were in the top 5 (apparently)except for one: Crash ranked at NUMBER 58.

So please, don't tell me that there is no story or that I don't have a right to be angry. There's ample evidence that a lot of Oscar voters voted against Brokeback Mountain (many not even having watched it)and voted for the heavily promoted but inferior Crash solely because of their discomfort with the portrayal of two masculine gay men in love.

I'm sorry your ox wasn't gored in this little travesty but mine (and many others) was so have enough awareness to respect that we are not imagining this slight.

[QC]

53. Good post! n/t

[Charlie Brown]

65. I would say Saving Private Ryan fits that criteria

I'm not saying I disagree with you, but there are other highly acclaimed films that have not won the Oscar. Does the Academy have a grudge against veterans?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120815/awards

[bbmykel]

68. This is a tangental point at best

No one is going to argue that other fine films have been passed over.

But please--in the case of Saving Private Ryan--show me where Academy members are quoted (as Tony Curtis is wrt to Brokeback Mountain) as saying they won't watch it because it's about veterans. It's silly to even contemplate.

[onenote]

79. how many didn't see BBM? Would they have voted for it?

Please don't tell me you think everyone who saw BBM voted for it for best picture. The fact is that yes, some members of the Academy probably didn't see BBM. How many? Who knows. There are nearly 6000 eligible voters and its possible that as many members of the academy that didn't see BBM didn't see one of the other films either. I know several people who are uncomfortable with the subject matter of Munich and haven't seen it for that reason. Could there be academy members who feel the same way? Possibly.

THe fact is that BBM won Best Director even though, presumably, the "Tony Curtis crowd" didn't vote for BBM to win that either. Thus, it seems likely that what made the difference between BBM winning and losing best picture wasn't the Tony CUrtis crowd, it was folks who voted for BBM for best director who voted for some other nominee for best picture. Why would they split their votes? Maybe they couldn't decide between the two films and wanted them both to win honors. Maybe they picked BBM for best director because Ang Lee didn't win that award for Crouching Tiger. The reasons that academy members vote are varied and influenced by a wide range of factors. I have no doubt that some voters cast ballots for BBM because of its content, just as some voted for some other film because of BBM's content. No one can ever know whether BBM would've won if everyone's vote was untainted by "outside" influence since there is no such thing as a "pure" vote... its all subjective.

onenote

[ruggerson]

69. Excellent post...

Your post brought home to me what this is really about. It's not about a frigging movie, nor is it about a golden statue, it's about the fact that often, when we as a group, get set up to achieve a milestone or an advance, whether it's something as minor as the validation of having the best picture Oscar or something as major as being able to fight in the armed forces and defend the land of our birth, bigotry always rears it's ugly head at the last second and ends up destroying our hopes.

When Clinton was elected in 92, it was supposed to be the dawn of a new era. But the early promise of drafting an executive order to let us fight in the military ran into the immediate roadblock of Republican (and a lot of southern Democratic) homophobia.

We win the right to marry, a very basic human right, from a wise Supreme Court in Massachussetts and the dark forces come along and demand a constitutional amendment to undo it.

We as a group (and we are a very disparate group) are like Charlie Brown with the football. Lucy is the homophobes who come in at the last minute, ever damn time, and fuck everything up.

The fact that this movie was headed for the national validation of being the Best Picture at the Academy Awards was a small, symbolic, cultural victory of sorts. It was a small triumph over the evil of the religious rightwing which we all experience in our lives on a daily basis. It won the Golden Globe, the Spirit Award, the British Oscar, it was headed quite easily for the ultimate honor.

And yet this was snatched from us, too. By people "uncomfortable" with seeing who we really are. By people "uncomfortable" with having us validated on the silver screen: the ultimate cultural victory in our celebrity, movie-driven culture.

Lucy came in and once again snatched the football.

And a small, potential, uplifting victory became yet another angry, sorrowful disappointment.

[Snivi Yllom]

75. some travesty

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0388795/awards

3 Oscars
8 Oscar nominations
4 Golden Globes


doth protest too much methinks

[onenote]

78. how many films had won the producers, directors, and writers guild awards?

Since 2000, at least, I can't think of any film that won all of those awards. And keep in mind that the directors guild award is for best director, and BBM got the Academy Award in that category. And the writers guild gives out two awards, one for original screenplay and one for adapted screenplay -- just as in the Oscars, BBM won one, and Crash won the other.

In fact, over the past five years, the writers guild has honored 10 films (2 per year as described), and exactly two of those ten films have captured best picture at the Oscars: Beautiful Mind and now Crash.

The Producers Guild award is equally disconnected from the Oscars. Since 2001, the best picture according to the Producers Guild has more often than not failed to win best picture. The award with the closest relationship to best picture is the directors guild award -- the last time different movies won best picture from the Directors Guild and the Academy's Best Pictrure Oscar was 1998, I think. But its not as if it never happens.

All in all, there are no absolute markers that indicate what film "should" win the best picture award, and this year is no different. For some best picture trivia that reflects what a crapshoot the Oscars can be, check out the following http://www.filmsite.org/bestpics.html

onenote

[DarienComp]

47. Are we still doing this?

I'm sorry but as a gay guy, I'm just not going to get upset over this. Not when we still have to deal with actual hate crimes, employment and housing discrimination, and marriage discrimination. You're right, American society treats us like second-class citizens. It's not because 'Brokeback Mountain' lost Best Picture.

Nobody has explained to me why 'Brokeback Mountain' will not have the same impact on society because 'Crash' brought home the statue.

[cboy4]

63. You know what? I don't even care that Brokeback lost. What I care about

is all of the posts from people who can't even concede that homophobia exists in Hollywood. Forget the movie.

Maybe homophobia didn't factor into the vote for best picture, but nobody can deny that gay actors/actresses are in the closet in liberal Hollywood because they're afraid they'll be passed over for a movie part if they admit they're gay.

In my book, this is something to get upset about...especially here at DU where you'd think some of these democrats and progressives would be a little more sensitive.

[DarienComp]

67. You know what else? One doesn't have anything to do with the other.

And I never suggested that there is no homophobia in Hollywood.

[cboy4]

70. Oh I totally know you didn't suggest there's no homophobia in Hollywood...

I'm not sure if you've read the huge number of posts on at least five threads over the past 72 hours about this.

However, there have been some really ugly replies from people who have said, or at least implied that there's no way homophobia factored into the Oscar decision.

Nobody knows that except the academy members who voted, but considering the homophobic environment in Hollywood, I think it's a fair question/concern.

If African American DU's were to have claimed racism played a part in a black themed movie not winning the award, I wouldn't immediately discount their claims and make hurtful comments....

I would listen and try to understand. The same can't be said around here about the Brokeback posts, and I think that's sad. It's very Freeper if you ask me.

[Mark5]

50. I dont know

I saw all the movies nominated except for brokeback. I didnt have any interest in seeing it. Not cause they are gay or what have you, but mainly cause I am not into western love stories.
The fact that it was about gay cowboys was not "groundbreaking" enough for me to see it. I know there are gay/straight cowgirls cowboys and they love each other, hmm ok...awesome

I was disappointed in seeing CRASH win. I thought it was so OVER RATED. I live in L.A.I was raised and grew up in LA and I am about to join the LAPD.
I thought CRASH was nothing more that a pseudo deep, ridiculously simple, border line naive look/study at our social problems, which relied heavily on common outsiders(non angelino) misconceptions and stereotypes about LA as a backdrop for the storyline.(besides like someone else pointed out this "subject" had previously been covered countless times)

[jonnyblitz]

52. wow to the vitriol in some of these posts. latent homophobia

is alive and well here at the DU. see the intense and angry backlash to the point of view of us uppity fags on this matter. of course homophobia doesn't exist anymore. they aren't screaming FAGGOT at the top of their lungs so it just isn't there. we are all imagining things. i guess we should just shut the fuck up about it already. :sarcasm:

[rinsd]

56. I'm sure there is latent homophobia, as there are incorrect assertions...

...of such.

BBM fervent supporters are starting to remind me of the Deaniacs in late 2003. You want to get on board but the supporters are so rigid and insufferable you end up rejecting the whole thing.

[Cronus Protagonist]

60. Some people don't like the movie - doesn't mean they're homophobes

I'm a homophile and I didn't like it that much. It was OK. I liked the scenery more than anything else in the movie. In fact, if they had cut out the entire second half of the movie, it would have been MUCH better, IMHO. And that's not homophobic.

:)

[Guaranteed]

71. It IS there.

It really is.

[GumboYaYa]

55. My friends in mixed marriages think Crash is one of the most

important films they have seen in a long time. Are they bad liberals because they internalize something that impacts them directly more strongly than other things that do not? Liberals are the only ones who have ever stood up for equal rights. Don't let your anger over something as ignorant as an Oscar blind you to the long struggle many people have fought to get the limited rights gays, blacks, women etc. have now.

The Oscars are always wrong. The fact that they were again does not merit this much angst. Is a Penguin movie really the best documentary? Hell, that was the biggest outrage of the night. All in all this year is just par for the course for the Oscars.

[radio4progressives]

66. I haven't seen Crashed or Munich or Walk the Line,, but i did see

Brokeback Mountain...

I went to the theatre alone but to my surprise ended up seeing it with friends who happened to be there too. We saw the film and all three of us agreed it was excellent.. We went over to a coffee shop and talked about it for about an hour or so, we were so awed by the breath of it's beauty and how it treated the subject..

I'm not at all surprised that Hollywood played it down the way it did in terms of the Oscar awards. Hollywood has been pillaried with hate and redicule and socially demonized since the early fifties if not earlier, by rabid right wingers (anti-communist rhetoric) and now the so called evangelical fundies.

People need to look into the history and appreciate how peoples livelyhoods were lost, careers destroyed, and actual lives lost through suicide and so forth.

We are in similar times as we were during McCarthy era and HUAC if not worse. for those who are too young to remember, or perhaps not even born yet... check this out from a friend of mine who is still alive today:

Honorable beaters of children, sadists, uniformed and in plain clothes, distinguished Dixiecrat wearing the clothing of a gentleman, eminent Republican who opposes an accommodation with the one country with which we must live at peace in order for us and all our children to survive.


My boy of fifteen left this room a few minutes ago in sound health and not jailed, solely because I asked him to be in here to learn something about the procedures of the United States government and one of its committees. Had he been outside where a son of a friend of mine had his head split by these goons operating under your orders, my boy today might have paid the penalty of permanent injury or a police record for desiring to come here and hear how this committee operates.

If you think that I am going to cooperate with this collection of Judases, of men who sit there in violation of the United States Constitution, if you think I will cooperate with you in any way, you are insane! This body is improperly constituted. It is a kangaroo court. It does not have my respect, it has my utmost contempt.


listen to audio:

http://www.billmandel.net/h/HUAC.shtml


Unfortunately, Bill Mandel's speech to HUAC was made years following the criminalization of people in the film industry who were themselves "members of the communinist party" or merely acquainted with those who were..

must anyone here be reminded how "banning gay marriage" was successfully used as a political tool in elections campaigns?

I suggest that it is amazing that Hollywood actually produced the film in the first place.. all things re-considered..

[guidod]

73. You are so wrong.

Brokeback Mountain was about bigotry and was beat by a movie about bigotry. I saw both pictures and I like both. When I walked out of the theater after seeing Crash my words were "this movie will win best picture" no ifs ands or buts about it. It won the Grammy award, it just didn't happen to win the Oscar. Why do you have to find a hidden agenda in all of this?

[RazzleDazzle]

81. I don't have to read the article

to IMMEDIATELY recognize the truth in the title of your post. I haven't seen any of the movies, so I don't have a personal opinion, but I do know that going in, Brokeback had ALL the momentum behind it from all its other wins.

Now, a challenge for YOU, and in fact every other gay male and female here at DU. Can you recognize that all of the various types of oppression, all of the "isms" are intimately and irrevokably connected, and all need to be fought together and at the same time? Racism, sexism, homophobia (and all other forms of discrimination/oppression) are ALL tools of Patriarchy to keep us divided and separate and powerless and down and out and preferrably fighting amongst ourselves or if not at least fighting those who would actively and even violently oppress us.

All of us who care about these individual oppressions need allies from from among the members of the other groups, AND some of th white guys who run things and benefit most from these oppressions.

Just in case I need to, let me point out explicitly how homophobia is related to sexism, and both feed one off and magnifiy and exacerbate one another. Men who are "effeminate" aren't good enough to be considered real men because being a woman is bad (an attitude which is the very definition of sexism) and so being woman-like in any way is also bad and used as a put-down. For women who are lesbians, the criticism is that they're not "woman enough" to either be feminine, or to want to mate with a man. In this case women are judged on the basis of how WELL they measure up to society's ideas about how they should be, which is sexism at work as well (narrowly proscribed standards of behavior into which ALL women must fit and be glad about it).

If you want, aas I do, to help build a nation where "that gay kid, that little boy or girl," is safe, has an emotionally and physically safe place to grow up to be who they really are, where teen gays and lesbians don't lead the nation's suicide stats, then fighting sexism is part of what needs to be done.

Think about it.

[ruggerson]

82. You don't have to convnice me

I agree with everything you wrote.

[QC]

83. Annie Proulx Responds....

Remind me never to get on her bad side!

On the sidewalk stood hordes of the righteous, some leaning forward like wind-bent grasses, the better to deliver their imprecations against gays and fags to the open windows of the limos - the windows open by order of the security people - creeping toward the Kodak Theater for the 78th Academy Awards. Others held up sturdy, professionally crafted signs expressing the same hatred....

The people connected with Brokeback Mountain, including me, hoped that, having been nominated for eight Academy awards, it would get Best Picture as it had at the funny, lively Independent Spirit awards the day before. (If you are looking for smart judging based on merit, skip the Academy Awards next year and pay attention to the Independent Spirit choices.) We should have known conservative heffalump academy voters would have rather different ideas of what was stirring contemporary culture. Roughly 6,000 film industry voters, most in the Los Angeles area, many living cloistered lives behind wrought-iron gates or in deluxe rest-homes, out of touch not only with the shifting larger culture and the yeasty ferment that is America these days, but also out of touch with their own segregated city, decide which films are good. And rumour has it that Lions Gate inundated the academy voters with DVD copies of Trash - excuse me - Crash a few weeks before the ballot deadline. Next year we can look to the awards for controversial themes on the punishment of adulterers with a branding iron in the shape of the letter A, runaway slaves, and the debate over free silver....

The hours sped by on wings of boiler plate. Brokeback's first award was to Argentinean Gustavo Santaolalla for the film's plangent and evocative score. Later came the expected award for screenplay adaptation to Diana Ossana and Larry McMurtry, and only a short time later the director's award to Ang Lee. And that was it, three awards, putting it on equal footing with King Kong. When Jack Nicholson said best picture went to Crash, there was a gasp of shock, and then applause from many - the choice was a hit with the home team since the film is set in Los Angeles. It was a safe pick of "controversial film" for the heffalumps....

http://books.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1727309,00.html

[Nailzberg]

85. Protests at the Oscars

On the sidewalk stood hordes of the righteous, some leaning forward like wind-bent grasses, the better to deliver their imprecations against gays and fags to the open windows of the limos - the windows open by order of the security people - creeping toward the Kodak Theater for the 78th Academy Awards. Others held up sturdy, professionally crafted signs expressing the same hatred....

They do this every year. All the right wing hate groups are in attendance. It wasn't just this year. Last year we even had "Don't Kill Terri" sign holders, as if Clint Eastwood was planning on pulled her plug. All these right wing protest groups come to the Oscars cause we Hollywood types represent all that is evil.

[depakid]

84. A bit of irony in that title

Seeing as how Crash was a movies about bigotry....;-)

[QC]

87. Homophobia certainly didn't make it into Crash.

Odd that one would make a movie about contemporary L.A. without a single gay character in it, but I guess that's because there are no homos in $cientologyland. Once one pays a few hundred grand and gets all the dead space aliens pulled out of oneself, sodomitic urges magically disappear.

[depakid]

95. I don't find that odd

It's not as if the people who put together Crash went out of their way to avoid any issues. The film had its own set of themes, and it was convoluted enough as it was.

[Neshanic]

90. Limo liberals and Will and Grace homo supporters.

It's funny to see the gay stuff in the media, and what a tradition it has. From "nancy" guys in the first movies without sound, skipping around in a grainy world to the alleged gays in Will and Grace, high atop their fabulous lives in Manhattan doing a reprise of a "step n fetch it" routine, gay is hilarious!

Especially the gays that populate Will and Grace's world. Funny, monied, and always looking for love. Those heterosexuals, God love em', they tune in every week to see the never in a relationship gays, and their madcap lives filled with double-fucking entendres.

Now THAT'S entertainment.

BBM scared the bejesus out of Hollywood. Not the Will and Grace Hollywood, but the Hollywood that has to parade up to the Capitol to do their yearly, or in Hillary election cycles, to esplain why they are not too violent, too communist, too sexual, and well, just too out of touch.

Knowing that having this win for BBM, would be akin to declaring cultural war on all those DVD buying straights. They won enough, can't they just shut the Hell up?

Well for all you that did you penance watching "Will and Grace", and think yourself the big open mind, then poo-poo the notion that it was the big homo-love fest bigotry that denied BBM it's place, we got a bridge for ya. Hollywood, very much like the DLC has the long game in mind, and they pick their battles to loose, thank you very much.

We like our homos sanitized for syndication, so keep your smutty potrayals of two men that find love in an impossible world to yourself, let alone win the big one.

I love funny gay as much as the next hunky guy, Blazing Saddles is funny and to borrow a quote, you don't knock funny, but packaged gayness acceptance does not the open mind make. Will and Grace was about gay life as much as The Mummy was about archaeology.

BBM was a victim of bigotry and homophobia, a Hollywood carefully planning it's dance. Instead they should of just taken the the advice of Dom Deluise...."now watch me faggots!"

[Dogmudgeon]

92. Sour Grapes Year

Folks, we had "our" point of view represented in every single goddamned movie up for Best Picture this year. That in itself is a major achievement after 25 years of increasing Hollywood conservatism.

Yes, I would have preferred to see Brokeback Mountain win Best Picture. But Crash certainly isn't a right-wing paen.

The big news from the Academy of the Motion Pictures Arts and Sciences this year is that WE won. We all won. So some of the voting members wussed out -- or maybe they actually thought Brokeback Mountain was inferior to Crash. But any of those movies could have won, and it would have been a step in the right direction.

Liberalism is back. Ain't it grand?

--p!

[leftyladyfrommo]

93. Brokeback Mountain was the Favorite here in the Midwest

So I don't think this was about bigotry.

Maybe Crash was just a better movie. What a novel idea.

[Clarkie1]

94. I still think the best movie won. n/t

[Starbucks Anarchist]

97. Roger Ebert's take on the controversy:

http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060306/OSCARS/603070301