"What PROOF do you have that BBM lost because of homophobia????"

[Bluebear]

'Recently, Tony Curtis declared on FOX News that he has no interest in seeing Brokeback Mountain and that his friends don't either. It's that type of sentiment that prompted Mechanic to tell Crash director Paul Haggis that he'd gone from a long shot to a potential winner.'

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5242381

=====

Roger Ebert is offering positive and thoughtful reasons for his prediction that Crash will take the Best Picture Oscar, but in my mind he's essentially predicting that older-Academy- member homophobia is going to ultimately call the tune. I think it's a tiny bit derelict of Roger to not at least acknowledge what I've been referring to as the Tony Curtis factor. The 81 year-old actor was widely quoted as saying he "hasn't seen the heavily Oscar-nominated picture and probably won't, and the same is true for other Academy members," adding that "Howard Hughes and John Wayne wouldn't like it." And surely Ebert has at least glanced at or heard about Nikki Finke's 2.2 L.A. Weekly column that said "this year's dirty little secret is the anecdotal evidence pouring in to me about hetero members being unwilling to screen Brokeback Mountain...for a community that takes pride in progressive values, it's shameful that Hollywood's homophobia may be on a par with Pat Robertson's." I'm not trying to boil it all down to a single us-vs.-them issue, and I assume readers understand I'm not saying it's homophobic to vote for Crash over Brokeback Mountain for Best Picture. But talk to people with older dads and uncles in the Academy, and they'll tell you that the World War II generation has indicated they have problems with Brokeback along these lines. It's also widely acknowledged that Crash, as a certain pundit put it to me a while back, is "the middle-class choice for Best Picture." Middle class as in "ohh, I don't know if I want to sit in a theatre with my wife and watch that pup-tent scene."

http://hollywood-elsewhere.com/wireditems/2006/02/roger_ebert_is.php

[FreedomAngel82]

1. I guess you missed George Clooney's speech

[Bluebear]

2. No. I did not miss George Clooney's speech.

Is George Clooney an Academy voter, by the way?

If he is, and I am just guessing he is not, you think his speech would miraculously nullify the votes of the older 'he-men' who REFUSED to screen one of the contenders for best Picture?

[FreedomAngel82]

4. Than you missed the point of his speech

[Bluebear]

6. Oh, I did, did I?

Why don't you write an essay about how speeches retroactively change votes and explain it all to me. :crazy:

[FreedomAngel82]

18. Go and listen to his speech

He mentioned how in 1939 they gave an award to a woman (I can't remember her name now) who was black and Rosa Parks hadn't even come a long than or the struggle for civil rights. So tell me if they didn't give her an award would you have called them racists?

[Bluebear]

24. I. Heard. His. Speech. It had NOTHING to do with the vote.

The vote had already taken place.

[TheWraith]

82. You may have heard, but you obviously didn't listen.

Clooney was pointing out that Hollywood has a long history of progressive values. Of course it had nothing to do with the actual awards--duh. He was talking about the overall ethic behind making movies that expand people's minds.

[Bluebear]

88. You may want to read through the thread before calling me stoopid.

Just a suggestion.

[bliss_eternal]

94. Hattie McDaniel--

(fust fyi...)

Interesting information about Hattie that George probably didn't know...

1) Her wish was to be buried in Hollywood after she died, unfortunately that request was denied due to the bigotry of the time (1952).

2) On a more positive note, Ms. McDaniel was the first black woman to attend the Oscars as a guest and not a servant.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0567408/bio

[SharonAnn]

153. Hattie McDaniel. Mammy in Gone With the Wind.

[TheWraith]

63. Of course Clooney voted.

He's an actor, a director, a writer, and he was nominated for three awards: you think they forgot to mail him his ballot?

And for the love of fuck, does everything have to be a conspiracy? Maybe more people voted for Crash because they liked it better. Maybe a bunch of people thought BBM was overhyped and they decided they'd rather give it to the sleeper picture. I don't mind a few speculations about why BBM didn't get the best picture nod, but this is ridiculous. It's not like it got beaten by an obvious stinker--this was an extremely competitive year in the best picture category. And if this titanic level of homophobia was able to keep BBM out of the best picture spot, explain to me why Phillip Seymour Hoffman got the best actor award for portraying possibly the gayest man in American history, or why Ang Lee won the director's award for BBM. Seriously, all you people need to cool down and think for awhile.

[FreedomAngel82]

71. Don't say that you're anti gay!

You homophobe! :sarcasm:

[Bluebear]

86. I didn't know being an actor gave him automatic entree into the academy

Nor do I think it's a "conspiracy". This thread was in answer to someone who thought it could play NO role in the decision. And seriously, I am not hot in the least about an awards ceremony. What does rankle me is claiming homophobia does not exist in America, as a poster here does. Sorry you got dragged into it. :toast:

[BoneDaddy]

140. Sanity

amid a world of paranoia. Thanks. I mean how can someone possibly say that homophobia kept it out. Just because a movie is provocative and addresses the social illness of the effects of homophobia does not, by default, mean it should win.

[Bluebear]

149. And if some voters refused to watch this film....

...that wouldn't qualify?

[mikeanike]

147. I agree

Plus for christ sake its just a fucking movie. And it is just a fucking award show. In the words of Sienfeld, "It's a show where they give out trophies!"

[MikeStl]

3. ...

And what a great speech it was.

[FreedomAngel82]

5. Welcome to DU

[fishwax]

162. because clooney said it does not make it so

Clooney's was a good and heartfelt speech, but the fact, for example, that they gave Hattie McDaniel long before Rosa Parks refused to move to the back of the bus doesn't mean that Hollywood wasn't racist then or for decades after.

George Clooney gave a nice speech about not shunning from liberal/progressvie values, but the fact that he gave a feel-good assessment of Hollywood's progressivism on Hollywood's biggest feel-good stage doesn't mean the assessment in that speech was accurate.

[NVMojo]

7. there is no proof! We had many great movies that should have won

and only one could. I wish every protected class would stop playing victim if they don't get recognized for the being the biggest victim with an Oscar. This is so damn tiresome.

I'm so damn glad Hollywood gave us such a good variety of subject matter type movies this year. Who says no one is listening?

[Bluebear]

10. Of course, you should take this thread in context.

Someone questioned if homophobia could have lead to the BBM defeat. Did you read the quotes above?

If an Academy voter refuses to see a film, how can they truly choose the best?

[FreedomAngel82]

13. And why didn't they see the film?

Maybe they didn't have any intrest in it? Maybe they've read/heard enough reviews that it didn't intrest them? I do think if you're an AA voter you should watch all the films and give them all an equal chance but I guess AA doesn't have rules about that.

[Bluebear]

16. It's their job to have an interest in it or they should resign their vote.

PS, "The Passion of the Christ" would be the last movie I would be dragged into seeing. But if I wwere an Academy voter I would watch it and judge it on its own merits.

[FreedomAngel82]

20. I wouldn't be able to stand it personally

Too much violence. And psst as I have mentioned I'm a Christian who didn't see that movie. So now am I anti-Christian? :eyes: My father borrowed the movie from my aunt and watched it and I saw a scene and about barfed.

[Bluebear]

26. Who called you anti-Christian? What's WRONG with you already?

[FreedomAngel82]

37. It's a metaphorical question

Don't you know what that is? Did you not read my post? :eyes: Good grief people. Or are you just finding some reason to trash me?

[WildEyedLiberal]

49. What the fuck is a metaphorical question?

A question which makes a metaphor? A question which IS a metaphor?

More importantly: do you know what a metaphor IS?

Hint: we learned in sixth grade grammar class.

[readmoreoften]

57. I think she means "rhetorical" question.

But it's not a rhetorical question. It's actually an illogical segue.

[WildEyedLiberal]

58. Yep - wrong on two levels

How astoundingly sad.

[readmoreoften]

28. Well, you're not an academy voter, so...

:eyes:

Judges shouldn't vote on something they don't see.

[dsc]

154. It is five films for Christ's sake and they get to watch them for free

Yes, I think if they are going to vote they should take the 15 hours it would take to watch all five films.

[bliss_eternal]

100. I just found this link that discusses who votes, etc.

WHO REALLY PICKS THE WINNERS?

Oscar Winners are determined by the (approximately) 5,700 voting members of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences (but they don’t all vote for all categories—just the big 6). Membership in the Academy is by invitation only. Members have hopefully been nominated and been voted into the organization because of their quality work experiences have made them the best in their field. Well, some of them of course are members because they work a lot. The members join in one or more of the 14 different branches of the Academy. These 14 branches are: Actors, Art Directors, Cinematographers, Directors, Documentary, Executives, Film Editors, Music, Producers, Public Relations, Short Films and Feature Animation, Sound, Visual Effects and Writers.

The nominations are chosen by qualified voting eligible members in the 14 branches. Only the big 6 awards (Best Actor, Best Actress, Best Supporting Actor and Actress, Best Director and Best Picture) are decided by the entire (approximately) 5,700 voting members. You can only vote in categories like Best Documentary and Best Foreign Film if you have seen all of the nominations (and I would presume that is also true for categories like Animated Short and Live Action Short as well). I am not sure how they determine who has seen all the films or not, but they do hold special screenings for Academy members of nominated films. It is possible that winners in these categories could be determined by the votes of a few hundred members (but it’s probably closer to around 1,500).

-------------------------snip----------------------------------------------

What do I mean?

Actors who are members of the Academy decide who is nominated for the acting awards. Writers decided who is nominated for the writing awards. The big 6 awards are decided by the entire voting membership of the Academy. The others are decided by a lesser number of voters.

SO?

So, if you are trying to win an office pool or professionally placed bet and want to pick your choices by something more reliable than gut feelings and darts, you might want to remind yourself that only the big 6 awards are ever going to be influenced by hype, emotion and advertising taken out in trade magazines like Variety and Hollywood Reporter—and then in a hopefully very limited manner.


taken from:
http://www.epinions.com/content_4261978244

I found this interesting, for the sake of discussion. I found other links that seem to correlate to what he says here about who votes, etc. This particular site discusses last year's Oscar race.

:hi:

[onenote]

128. I don't think this is correct

It is correct that NOMINATIONS are decided branch by branch (except for the big 6). But in terms of actual awards -- I've read on several occasions that every academy member can vote in every category.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/03/23/oscar/main281124.shtml

And as for homophobia causing Brokeback to lose, the question that would then have to be asked is how did Brokeback get best director. And if the voters were so old and fuddy-duddy as some are claiming, how did Its Hard Out There Bein' a Pimp" win best song?

onenote

[ruggerson]

8. They don't pay attention to proof

they have an irrational block about this issue. You could bring them Academy members sworn affadavits and they would still scream that Crash won because it is a better picture and that homophobia played no role. None at all.

[jonnyblitz]

11. exactly. nt

[FreedomAngel82]

14. But once again there is no proof

You're just doing pure victim speculation. I guess you missed George Clooney's speech too.

[FreedomAngel82]

22. So let me ask you this question if you don't mind

If "The Passion of the Christ" didn't win the award (which I'm sure it didn't) would you have said they were anti-Christian? Or what about "Crash"? If that didn't win would you have called them racists?

[Chipper Chat]

9. Of all the "gay" movies I've seen Brokeback has the tamest sex

scenes. The pup-tent homo-episode showed NOTHING. Where is the "outrage" over Jack being raped by Ann Hathaway's boob-showing lusty character? Or Michelle Williams pulling Ennis's hand over her boob? Think of it - all the real sex in this movie was hetero. What's all the fussy backlash about?

[Erika]

12. The morality of "the old guys" have always been interesting

Rock Hudson, the leading man in romance movies was gay, Liberace was gay, John Wayne collected multiple, I believe 7 non-American wives as he liked each of his woman uniquely different.

But two male consenting adults in a sex scene is a turn off? Uh, why?

[Bluebear]

15. Especially when this was a story about love and loss

Not "homos" as someone so delicately put it.

The scene where Ledger visits Gyllenhaal's parents...I heard audible sniffling from more than one hetero sexual viewer at the screening I went to.

[Erika]

19. It was a touching scene

Both the parents knew but the mother was the only one who could reach out.

[Bluebear]

23. And it defined so much of the movie.

Anyone who lived their life as a lie for someone else's prejudices would relate. Anyone who stayed in a job they hated, anyone who put off taking the cruise and then was too ill to ever travel again. The message to me was "live YOUR life"!

[Erika]

27. The movie was much like a Tennesse Williams play

heavy, sad, with a brighter day that could have been but never was. The film hurt.

[Bluebear]

29. "The film hurt."

Bravo, you put it into words. I felt like my gut was punched out for the next hour.

[Erika]

30. Yep. n/t

[FreedomAngel82]

17. Well think about it

Someone who has always been around straight couples and never around a gay couple especially in their older years. Now days it's one of those things people could care less about. Even my grandparents don't care about it or my parents and we're all Christian's. So to a certain number of people in our society it's still new to them. Just like with interracial couples. The same things that are being said about gay couples were said about interracial couples and they were treated bad too. But now people are cool with it (for the most part).

[readmoreoften]

34. Why do you care about this so much?

If gays and lesbians, who have lived with homophobia their whole lives, react to the fact that it's rumored that the judges of a major contest judged the application based on the subject matter rather than on merit, why do you care? Why are you putting yourself out there to be a champion of those who don't want to do their appointed jobs because of personal prejudice?

And your "people are cool with it (for the most part)" comment is pure idiocy. I can't even be guaranteed that I'll be able to visit my partner in the hospital when she's dying, and you're telling me that people are "cool with it?"

You need to do some serious research to back your statements up. How much is "the most part"? Sixty percent? Eighty percent? So if I only meet, say, three people in my entire life that try to beat me with a baseball bat for being gay.. that should be cool, right? Or if only thirty percent of Americans deny me the right to visit my partner in the hospital, is that cool, too?

You know what your post sounds like? It sounds like, "Why don't all you gay people shut up?" Believe me, it's not something we haven't heard before. We recognize it when we hear it.

[FreedomAngel82]

40. Did you not read my post???

The whole point is it's out of their comfort zone. Just like with interracial marriage was for lots of people for years. But again it's just spectulation on my part. Why are you twisting everything I say and turning yourself into a damn victim? So what? A fictional movie didn't win an awards show nobody will remember in sixty years. :eyes: Yep and that's going to effect society. So in 1932 when the Academy gave a black woman an award why did it take Rosa Parks and Martin Luther King junior to get civil rights???

[readmoreoften]

53. Oh, so I'm just making myself out to be a "victim", huh?

Mentioning that gay people can't visit their partners in the hospital. Yeah, it's being a victim. I've know more people who've been put in the hospital for being beaten-- almost to death. THREE in one summer, in fact. Recently. They were victims, too. I'm not "turning myself into a victim." The world I live in does that just fine.

But I call bullshit where I see it. I'm not twisting anything you say. I'm pointing out what you're saying-- and you're saying it quite clearly.

Yes, it's out of the judges "comfort zones." So what? They're judges. They are supposed to watch the films they judge. Period.

And no one ever stated that there is a direct correlation between academy awards and civil rights gains. So your Rosa Parks comment is patently ridiculous.

[FreedomAngel82]

72. So why are you making a big deal out of it than?

:eyes: Why now for two days?

[WildEyedLiberal]

81. Make a big deal out of it?

DID YOU READ HIS POST?

He has had friends HOSPITALIZED for being BEATEN because they were GAY.

Don't you FUCKING GET IT?

IT'S NOT A FUCKING FUNNY HAHA JOKE.

[readmoreoften]

85. Her (smiley) I'm a woman.

I had one close friend taken home by gay bashers who offered him a ride (he doesn't have a car) and almost blinded.

One butch lesbian acquaintance beaten by a gang of men for standing up for a straight woman who was groped by one of them. The gang beat down the male bouncer of the club who came to her defense. They stopped short of killing her because her girlfriend (who is very feminine and traditionally pretty) was crying over her body and pleading for her girlfriend's life. (This happened in a public space.)

Two other people I know were beaten that summer in that town (summer of 04), one was actually a gay cop, the other a young guy who was raped by religious fanatics (they read bible verses over him).

It's really appalling to me that people don't understand what violent homophobes are capable of.

[WildEyedLiberal]

89. Oooops, sorry 'bout that!

Didn't mean to confuse your gender :)

What happened to your friends was truly terrible. It is heartbreaking to me that it is literally *dangerous* to be a homosexual living in America. It saddens and angers me that anyone would mock or blow off the very real persecution people face at the hands of bigots.

Blessings to you.

[QC]

135. ROFLMAO!!! You are singlehandedly responsible for about 90%

of the Oscar posts here. You have been posting obsessively ever since the awards were handed out, and yet you complain about other people caring about the issue?

I swear, nobody could make up anything half as funny as this.

[bliss_eternal]

108. Extended family telling us what is or is not racist...

That was so much fun. :sarcasm:

People that have not had the advantage of living as what society considers "a minority" frequently haven't got a clue what bigotry looks like or feels like for those on the recieving end of such treatment and attitudes.

It isn't always some guy wearing a pointy white, hooded robe and burning crosses on lawns. It isn't always as overt as someone calling someone a faggot, sissy, homo, nigger, spick, kike, spearchucker, jungle bunny, heeb, nigger, raghead, chink, bitch, retard, cripple or feminazi. Bigotry or homophobia doesn't always look the way it does when it's portrayed on television.

One doesn't have to see a swastika on their door, a cross buring on their lawn, skinheads marching in their direction, or be physically assaulted to know they are being discriminated against or treated as a second class citizen.

It's apparent in attitudes, looks or lack of one "seeing you." It's apparent by what people deny, as much as what they don't...

I could go on and on but will spare those in the know my continuing...;)

[David Zephyr]

157. Thanks.

:thumbsup:

[bliss_eternal]

21. The dude from Spartacus is a homophobe?!

LOL! Who knew?

He's really short changing himself, talking this way. I thought his appearance in Spartacus alone got him at least a few gay fans, back in the day... What an idiot.

[readmoreoften]

25. As a filmmaker and writer who's a lesbian, lemme tell ya. It's tough.

It's hard to get a film with GLBT content screened at a major festival at all unless it pushes straight people's sentimental buttons through themes of oppression and trauma. For example, I know of a filmmaker who got a grant to do a documentary on the trials and tribulations of a young transman (not groundbreaking material, really) and she didn't even *own a camera*. But stories about the lives and loves of strong queer people get sent to the ghetto of the "gay film festival." I also noticed that white people enjoy movies about black people when racism is involved, but when there are black characters who go beyond simply being the victims of racism (say, a black love story or drama) it becomes a "black" movie for "black people."

So not only my cineplex-- but even my local indie film fests-- reflect a culture that is generally alien to me. I feel that generally GLBT people are portrayed as "social problems" to be dealt with or as a "monday night at the movie" issue of the week to be vetted over the watercooler.

Good to see you, bluebear!

[Bluebear]

31. Good to see YOU!

I mentioned last night that Hollywood seems more compfortable with over the top "gay" portrayals. (Always by straight actors for whatever reason." Robin in "Birdcage" they can laugh about, but a regular guy-type who is gay is somehow, I don't know, threatening? Not entertaining?

[Maddy McCall]

32. What an excellent post.

Thanks for broadening my understanding of this topic.

:thumbsup:

[bliss_eternal]

33. You know what bothers me about the industry? Casting...

I don't like that they would rather have straight actor's portray gay characters than gay actors cast in such roles.

It reminds me of the years that it was absolutely NOT a "do" to cast a person of color in a role of color, so you had Natalie Wood as a black woman, a german as a Chinese woman in The Good Earth.

That just makes me crazy--it's their way of making an entire community invisible.

Also, it bothers me that a show that has attempted to be a truer portrayal of glbt issues (The L Word) wasn't even Emmy nominated. I was blown away by some of the work on that show the last couple of seasons. That bothers me.

edited for clarity...

[Bluebear]

35. Imagine Reese Witherspoon in blackface, in "The Rosa Parks Story"

It's not done anymore. We are over the days of caucasian actors playing Charlie Chan, replete with "Ah so" schtick.

Yet, straights consistently play gay roles. "Oh, what a great actor!" :eyes:

Not that they shouldn't play the roles, Ledger and Gyllenhaal were great, but I would love to see gay actors being ABLE to play gay characters.

[FreedomAngel82]

42. Riiight

They're going to hire a white woman to protray a black woman. :eyes: You guys are pathetic and grasping at straws.

[Bluebear]

45. No, you are proving yourself to be quite 'pathetic'

with your lack of historical knowledge. Here's a picture from yesteryear, for your edification:

[bliss_eternal]

55. Support and proof that white actors were cast in roles...

instead of people of color.

Please have patience with me friends--it will take me some time to run back and forth getting links as I update this...

Pinky(1949) a film about a black woman that "passed" for white. Pinky was played by Jean Craine, a caucasian (white) actress--not by Lena Horne, a black woman that would have been believable in such a role.

Link:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0041746/

The Good Earth--based on the Pearl Buck novel about a Chinese family. The film leads went did not go to Asian actors, but to caucasians...

Quote from link:
When Irving Thalberg, MGM's production chief, negotiated with Warner Bros. to cast Paul Muni, Muni told him, "I'm about as Chinese as Herbert Hoover." Thalberg had to lend Clark Gable and Leslie Howard to Warners to secure Muni's services.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0028944/trivia

Quote regarding the reason Luise Rainer (a German) was cast in the lead role of Olan, instead of an Asian actress:

When Thalberg cast Muni in the role of Wang Lung, he had to abandon any thought of casting the Chinese-American actress Anna May Wong as O-Lan as the Hays Office would not allow the hint of miscegenation, even between an actual Chinese woman and a Caucuasian actor in yellow-face drag. So, Thalberg gave Rainer the part, and she made O-Lan her own.

taken from:
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0707023/bio



West Side Story--A story of a latina and a caucasian that fall in love, despite ties to rival, cross cultural gangs.
information about film:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0055614/

The lead role of a latina was cast by a latina actress whose stage name was Carol Lawrence in the stage version of West Side Story. When the play was turned into a film, the lead went to Natalie Wood(of Russian heritage).

Quote regarding this issue:
A major controversy developed because Carol Lawrence, who played Maria in the stage version, was passed over for the role in favor of Natalie Wood.

taken from:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0055614/trivia

Info about Carol Lawrence:
snip...

The dark, vivid beauty also stayed alive in clubs, cabarets, concerts and summer stock stages....Born Carolina Maria Laraia in 1932

Taken from bio for Carol Lawrence:
http://poll.imdb.com/name/nm0492655/bio

Dorothy Dandridge:

imdb--
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0199268/bio

Going back for more...:hi:

[Bluebear]

59. Susan Kohner

"Imitation of Life". Another caucasian playing an African-America passing as caucasian.

[bliss_eternal]

70. Thank you... (info. on Ms. Kohner...)

:hi:

Quote from imdb regarding role in Imitation of Life:

IMITATION OF LIFE a film starring Lana Turner and Sandra Dee. It was a dual story of Lana portraying a struggling actress and Susan as Sara Jane struggling with the fact that although she appeared white, her mother was black. Susan's role as a young woman trying to cope in the white world while hiding the fact she was black was enough to win her an Academy Award nomination as Best Supporting Actress.

taken from:
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0463435/bio

Of course a black actress was cast as the role of Lana Turner's maid and Susan Kohner's mother in the film, Annie.

[bliss_eternal]

83. Part 2 of proof of white casting vs. real casting...

Sorry, my editing period expired... darn it! LOL!

I brought up Dorothy Dandridge in my post for the following reason:

In contrast, let's look at an actress of color from an era close to this time. What did her career consist of?

Dorothy Dandridge:

Her first film was in the Marx Brothers comedy, A DAY AT THE RACES in 1937. It was only a bit part but Dorothy had hopes that it would blossom into something better. But because she was a black woman in a very prejudiced society, she didn't land the roles that were readily available to her white counterparts. She did not appear in another film until 1940 in FOUR SHALL DIE. The role was nothing great other than to establish the fact that she was very beautiful and talented. Her next few roles in the early forties included films such as BAHAMA PASSAGE (1941), DRUMS OF THE CONGO (1942), and CHANGE OF HEART (1943). There were others in between, of course, but they were the usual black stereotypical films for women such as Dorothy.

Note by poster:
In Bahama Passage and Drums of the Congo, Dorothy Dandrige was cast as a native or slave girl. In those times, it was considered appropriate to cast a white actor as black, blacks and latinas (like Rita Morena) were cast as slave girls, fiery native girls, etc. It was difficult to impossible to be given roles as something like a teacher, nun,police officer, wife, mother, etc.


Lena Horne has spoke quite candidly about her scenes in film being considered "throw-aways." She agreed to appear in one of the final That's Entertainment films, on the condition that she could speak about the way she was treated as a woman of color in Hollywood, and how this made her feel, as a performer and artist. The studios usually filmed her in musical numbers that did nothing for the development of the story, so that her scenes could be cut easily and not affect the storyline, when the films played in southern states.

Quote referencing above comments, from imdb:

At 21 years of age, Lena played in her first film on the silver screen entitled THE DUKE IS TOPS. It would be four more years before she appeared in another. When she did it was PANAMA HATTIE playing a singer in a nightclub. By now, Lena had signed with MGM, but unfortunately, for her, the movies were filmed so that her scenes could be cut out when they were shown in the South. At that time, the South had ridiculous notions about race. Movie executives feared a loss of revenue if a black performer appeared in them in a role other than a servant or other minor occupation. Lena did not want to appear in any stereotyped role and who could blame her.

taken from--
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0395043/bio

As late as 1994, Marisa Tomei was cast to play a latina in The Perez Family.
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000673/

Surely there was a talented latina actress that could have played this role. I recall there was a big deal made about Marisa playing this part because she "gained weight for the part." :eyes:


I think I've provided sufficient evidence of Hollywood's history of casting white actor's in the roles of ethnic lead characters. They have a long history of casting in ways that they feel is "safe and appropriate" as opposed to what is "realistic" and "true" to the role.

So I'll stop boring you all... (lol) :hi: Forgive me, I'm a bit of a information junkie and film buff...:blush:

[AlGore-08.com]

117. Casting people of the correct ethnicity is a very recent development

One of the more interesting transition films is "Sayonara" - - which is about a white, Southern, American flying Ace who falls in love with a famous Japanese actress in occupied Japan during the Korean War. Originally, all of the Japanese characters were to be played by Caucasian or Latino actors, then the director changed his mind and wanted "real" Asians for the Japanese roles. However, he still cast Mexican Ricardo Montalban as Nakamura, the (Japanese) Kabuki actor who has a flirtation with a (white) American woman. (I know a Latina actress who was originally cast as the female lead.)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0050933/



Then there were the gentiles who played Jewish characters during the very late 1940s, 1950s and 1960s when films began seriously exploring anti-Semitism - - such as casting extremely Irish looking Gene Kelly as "Noel Airman" (a character deeply conflicted about being Jewish) in Marjorie Morningstar...

http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0051911/



But the older aesthetic of casting Caucasians in all roles, despite the character's ethnicity, lead to some choices that strike modern audiences are really bizarre... like Rock Hudson playing the Native American "Young Bull" in "Winchester '73"

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0043137/

And (German) Hungarian actor played Peter Lorre Japanese-American detective "Mr. Moto" for countless films



Ditto Swedish actor Warner Oland played Chinese-American detective "Charlie Chan" (although Chan's sons were played by Asian-American actors)



Englishman Boris Karloff played Native Americans, Indians, Arabs, Latinos, Chinese, Egyptians...

http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0000472/



http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0612847/

Paul Muni, born in the Ukraine, was almost in black face when he played a Mexican in "Juarez"

http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0031516/



Then there were the real "Black face" routines performed by Caucasian actors like Al Jolson, Eddie Cantor, even James Cagney...



Additionally, most disabled roles are played by actors who are not disabled - - here's Spencer Tracy cast as a one-armed man in "Bad Day at Black Rock":



Which is why it's still shocking to see Harold Russell in "The Best Years of Our Lives"

[bliss_eternal]

123. Wow--amazing post!

Thank you for providing examples I wasn't aware of!

You also made me recall a source of pain for Bruce Lee. He developed the Kung Fu televsion show idea, and wanted to play the lead character of Caine (or is it spelled Kane)... Anyway, though the studios liked his idea, and decided to green light it, they didn't give him the lead. It went to David Carradine--who as we know is not Asian.

[dsc]

155. That happened quite often

Amos and Andy started out on radio but went on to make movies. They were two white actors playing black characters. Read a book about Vaudville and blackface and your eyes might be opened.

[readmoreoften]

46. Interesting point.

My partner feels the same way. S/he doesn't feel that Brokeback is a queer movie because it's a story by a straight woman, directed by a straight man, played by straight men. I never really even thought of it that way! I think it's interesting that it never crossed my mind that the Hollywood mainstream might let gays tell their own stories. I do think that straight actors take an interesting role being gay. But maybe the real academy award should go to the whole long history of closeted gay actors who acted straight in ever role they ever played-- and you never even knew. Damn they were good!

[bliss_eternal]

109. Sometimes it takes one that isn't seen to make such points...

Paul Mooney, a black comedian that wrote for Richard Pryor, uses his work to make social (and political) statements. He's insanely funny and I've admired his work for years. But what's funny to me is how spot on accurate he is about society in many ways.

He pointed out in a sketch on Chappelle's show, how offensive and ridiculous it is that caucasians tell the stories of ethnic peoples and other groups considered in the minority in America.

One of his comments was he found it offensive that The Last Samurai was Tom Cruise. ;) Or the fact that Gone with the Wind is considered a classic, sweeping, beautiful love story. He said something to the effect of his people being slaves in the film, and why the hell would any of that be something he wants to see on the screen.

Make's you think, doesn't it?

[bliss_eternal]

47. Great minds--

I was just updating my post for clarity, and I mentioned Natalie Wood as a black woman. Yep, it happened. She was awful. LOL!

I agree, it would be a welcome change.

I'm so sick of all the reporters asking every black actor that goes down the red carpet, "...don't you think the Academy has grown in regard to roles for black actors?" :eyes: What the hell do they want, a cookie? Yet, no one asks about the roles for latinos, asians, gays or the physically disabled.

Maybe if Hollywood was more accepting of gay actors, so many male celebs would not be closeted--from fear of possibly ruining their careers. Rock Hudson was not the only closeted man in the industry, and still isn't...

Having been around aspiring actors it's sad to see so many men attempt to enter the industry, but denying who they are for fear they won't work if they are seen as gay. They don't want to be stereotyped as "the gay guy" and want the same opportunities to play different characters as any other actor.

[Bluebear]

50. Cheers!

:toast:

[readmoreoften]

39. When it comes to Hollywood, I expect it.

But, to me, the funny thing is how homophobic the indie scene is. Independent films are largely just slightly quirky mainstream films gunning for a big deal. Or Hollywood stuff that hasn't made it. Or, these days, films made by Hollywood filmmakers outside the studio system (Clooney, et al-- who I adore, by the way.)

My point is: my feeling is that straight people don't much give a damn about queers, whites don't give a damn about people of color, etc. Everyone's against anyone else being overtly discriminated against on paper, but beyond that...sheddup! Just my feeling, though.

[bliss_eternal]

60. I'm so surprised to hear this of the indie scene--

so sad.

I was just praising the Independent Spirit Awards earlier today for recognizing films that Hollywood may not... It's disheartening to hear what things are like behind the scenes and how difficult it is for people to share their truth.

[readmoreoften]

61. It could be my assessment. Don't get me wrong.

But of all the queer filmmakers I know-- and I'm talking about the ones who have worked on larger budget queer indie films-- most of them have an extremely hard time getting their work shown in non-GLBT venues. It's funny, because I assumed that the situation would be fine for queers in indie film. I'm not finding it to be that way at all.

[bliss_eternal]

84. I think I understand...

I can see why you would make such an assumption, that indie film would be different. I did as well.

I'm actually glad that technology has changed so much, that more people can finance their own films and create them digitally. This has allowed more people to actually create their own film without being as dependent on studios, etc. to fund their projects.

Anyone can MAKE a film, it's just the distribution and process of getting a film seen that doesn't sound as accessible for all...

:( :mad:

I appreciate your being so honest about this. This is a great learning experience!

[The Straight Story]

146. But hey, don't gays portray straights :) (maybe DU movie awards?)

As far as my whole view on this issue, it is thus:

1. I think there was a mix of reasons:
A. Some members don't like gay films
B. Some like old school cowboys, Wayne, Eastwood, etc and felt it in poor taste to traditions (ie, cowboys are drunks who shoot bad guys or clean shaven sober guys who rescue folks)
C. Some just thought another of the top movies was better (my wife liked crashed better but thought both were well done movies)
D. Some feared a backlash against movie industry and awards show and played it safe, even if they liked it better.

2. Personally, I prefered walk the line - but that is my bias because I liked Cash. I was not going to watch it actually for that reason :) But after watching it I felt the entire show was well done and it kept me interested. To me I think the academy hates country :)

3. Disclaimer - I watch maybe 10 min of the oscars each year, mainly because awards shows don't really represent me or what I like anyways. I reward movies my own way - by buying them. I can't think of many movies the academy has given good awards to that I liked. It does not make me want to see a movie more. So screw the oscars, if you think something is the best picture - buy it, but it for gift giving, get a web site devoted to it or a screen name (hence, the straight story), and so on. Oscars always let down someone or piss of some group. Screw em.

Maybe we need the DU movie awards :) Who's with me?

[featherman]

36. Not so much homophobia as a general intimidation that

turned to reluctance on the part of voters to anoint Brokeback for all time with a "Best Movie" oscar. The constant drumbeat of attacks by conservatives, christians, MSM, administration does have an effect. It was enough for many voters to opt for the safer course. And "Crash" is a good enough movie so it wasn't a real stretch. Many voters might have even preferred that some of the better "big" movies (Kong, Narnia, Batman Begins) had been in the running as well. Like "Greatest Show on Earth" that would have been safer yet.

With dropping theater attendance, DVD piracy, and home theater having an effect on the bottom line, Hollywood decided it didn't need the extra burden of confiming its negative portrayal as "out of the mainstream" or "out of touch with the average American". The studios need to sell product to a willing and friendly audience. It was a pretty simple capitalist calculation that swayed enough voters.

[WildEyedLiberal]

38. There's NO SUCH THING as HOMOPHOBIA in America!!!

See????

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2497868&mesg_id=2498046

I demand PROOF, you goddamn whiny homo!!

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:


I don't know whether to laugh, cry, or vomit.

[Erika]

41. vomit

My reaction.

[Bluebear]

43. PROVE IT!!!!!!! >>>>>>

[WildEyedLiberal]

51. Fucking chilling....

... but spot on.

God damn it.

See that, FreedomAngel? See where Mathew Shepard was beaten, brutalized, and left to die tied to a lonely fencepost in Wyoming because he committed the unforgiveable crime of being a gay man?

Remember Fred Phelps picketing his funeral? Saying he was glad Mathew was burning in hell for being a god-damned fag?

THERE'S YOUR FUCKING PROOF, GOD DAMN IT ALL TO HELL.

[FreedomAngel82]

73. Only two examples?

And you're going to say the whole damn population is that way and from a movie not winning like you wanted it to? Wow you and you guys call me stupid and hysterical? LOL. I feel sorry for you really I do.

[Name removed]

78. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bluebear]

87. "ONLY TWO EXAMPLES???????????????"

Is one not enough for you? How many examples would you like, 10? 1000? 10,000? Those numbers are out there.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

129. She meant two examples from the perpetrators' end.

I.E., two examples of homophobic hate crimes should not represent the majority of people who may not be that homophobic in the first place.

[Maddy McCall]

131. No, that's not what she meant. You've missed so much of this.

You should have been around the last two evenings, where she clearly displayed her homophobic sentiments.

The comment you are attempting to explain is but one of many that she made that demonstrated how she feels. In her "Crash deserved the award" thread, over half the posts are missing because of her disgusting rants and insults.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

132. I saw several of her posts saying most people aren't homophobic.

But I think she expressed many of her viewpoints in a haphazard fashion which obscured the point she was trying to make.

However, I have not seen her now deleted posts, but I assume you're telling the truth about the sentiments expressed by her.

[Maddy McCall]

133. The greatest problem with her is that she won't listen.

...and she attacks anyone who challenges her opinions. When DUers have tried to reason with her, she completely goes off on a tangent and in doing so, loses control of herself and attacks and attacks and attacks. And those attacks and obtuse posts are the most revealing about what she thinks. I come to DU to learn from fellow liberals--and as a result have had my world view expanded in wonderful ways. But she refuses to learn from other DUers; instead, she goes on the warpath.

Again, I really wish that you could see the major part of the thread which was deleted (and rightfully so).

[Starbucks Anarchist]

134. I did get a small sample of her now deleted posts.

But when I saw them, they were still up, though I have now forgotten the specifics of her comments.

But the lack of self-conrol on her part is evident.

[readmoreoften]

90. Is this enough for you?

Don't worry it's just the reported cases from 1993-1994. I'm sure you'll demand a more current source, since you'll deny that homophobia exists at all costs. You should do some research on your own. I promise you that plenty of gays are being murdered still-- you won't be disappointed.

(Courtesy of OUT magazine, reprinted without permission.)

ALABAMA
James Primus, 35- murdered, set on fire in his car, 21 June 1993

ARIZONA
Joseph Charles Holleran- beaten, assaulted, 24 October 1992, died May 1994
Duane Linsley- shot, 16 January 1994
Robert Haines- shot execution-style, 4 April 1994
Michael Despain, 24- burned, 6 June 1994
Thomas Frazee, 28- shot, 12 December 1994

ARKANSAS
Chris Miller, 23- stabbed and beaten, 30 July 1993
Ronnie Hugh Smith, 58- bludgeoned, found 25 February 1994

CALIFORNIA
John Garfield- shot, 30 May 1992
Cameron(Tina) Tanner- fall 1992
Mauricio Bassa- murdered, 22 May 1993
Keith Michael Ogden, 31- beaten, 7 July 1993
John Duncan O'Friel, 46- beaten, 8 July 1993
Father Ronald Maupin- multiple stab wounds, August 1993
James Graves- bludgeoned, 22 December 1993
Tony Ray- shot, 24 March 1994
Tommy Wenger, 24- multiple stab wounds, dismembered, 28 March 1994
Therman Brown, 50- gunshot wounds, 4 July 1994
Jon Simmons- gunshot to the head, 17 October 1994

COLORADO
James Holman, 36- multiple stab wounds, 13 February 1992
David Stewart- stabbed, 2 June 1992
Benjamin Zesch, 61- multiple stab wounds, 16 July 1992
*Robert Ferrell, 57- multiple stab wounds 15 September 1992
*Anthony carr, 33- stabbed, 26 December 1992
Randy Gonzales, 26- multiple stab wounds, 22 January 1993
Steven R. Heyman, 47- bludgeoned, 2 November 1993
*Bruce Hutchinson, 31- raped, bludgeoned 8 May 1994
*Poul Anderson, 54- gunshot to the head, found 23 May 1994

CONNECTICUT
James Maile, 25- bludgeoned, 10 December 1993

DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA (Metro Area)

Sanford "Sam" Swift, 31- puncture wound to the head, 11 June 1992
Jack Cowles, 74- stabbed and bludgeoned, 21 December 1992
Kenneth Love, 42- head caved in, 21 December 1992
Ana Maria Rosales, 24- shot in the face, 7 January 1993
Alan Haskell, 30- strangled, 3 February 1993
Ricky Godbolt, 33- bound, gagged, and stabbed, 16 September 1993
Rogers Donahue, 25- bound, gagged, and stabbed, 16 September 1993
Eric Moore, 22- shot at point-blank range, body hung from a hook, 3 January 1993
Charles Logan, 47- multiple gunshot wounds, 8 January 1994
Paul McClure, 47- strangled, 5 February 1994
Frank W. White, 56- multiple gunshot wounds, 18 March 1994
*David A. Jarman, 38- strangled, 4 April 1994
Andrew Rowe, 53- multiple stab wounds, found 9 May 1994
Marvin Greenwell, 55- multiple stab wounds, found 10 May 1994
Stuart Jerome Moses, 33- multiple gunshot wounds, 17 May 1994
Shelton Thigpen, 74- strangled, found 23 June 1994

FLORIDA
James Flaherty, 52- stabbed, bludgeoned, and strangled, 14 February 1993
Michael Cooper,- multiple gunshot wounds, 11 March 1993
Craig Duncan, 20s- stabbed, March 1994
*Albert Alcie Morris, 37- bludgeoned and shot, 19 May 1994
*Walter Jammell Hinton, 43- murdered, 20 November 1994
*John Hardy Roberts, 59- murdered, 15 March 1994

GEORGIA
*Unidentified male transvestite, shot, December 1992
Elizabeth Kelle Davidson, 25- shot, 14 January 1993
Milton Bradley, 72- strangled and beaten, 5 May 1994
*Unidentified gay man- killed by serial killer Gary Ray Bowles, May 1994

ILLINOIS
Robert Harris- bludgeoned, 2 February 1993
Dennis Johnson- throat slit, 31 October 1993
Unidentified gay man, 70s- beaten, December 1993
Unidentified transvestite- multiple stab wounds, 18 December 1993
Unidentified male prostitute- multiple stab wounds, 31 December 1993
William Lemke- multiple stab wounds, 9 April 1994
Unidentified gay man- multiple stab wounds, 22 April 1994

INDIANA
Leta Dains- stabbed, 8 November 1992
Pamela Agee- stabbed, 8 November 1992
*Unidentified gay man, 22- murdered, 31 May 1993
*Unidentified gay man, 50- gunshot wound, June 1994

KANSAS
Unidentified gay man, 20s- bludgeoned, found 29 October 1994

KENTUCKY
Jack Gilman- shot in the head, 9 May 1993

LOUISIANA
Unidentified gay man, 51- beaten, 24 April 1993
Joe Balogg, 22- straight man stabbed by five men shouting antigay epithets, 12 November 1993

MARYLAND
Joey H. Jordan, 31- gunshot wound to the head, 6 July 1992
Marvin Johnson, 29- multiple stab wounds, 2 January 1994

MASSACHUSETTS
Thomas Carey, 39- gunshot wounds, 14 May 1993

MICHIGAN
Susan Pittman, 56- shot at point-blank range by neighbor, May 1992
Christine Puckett, 39- shot at point-blank range by neighbor, May 1992
Bruce Andrews, 28- multiple stab wounds, October 1992
Jeffrey Dansby- stabbed, March 1993
David Converse, 51- stabbed, 16 July 1994
Gary Rocus, 41- beaten and strangled, November 1994
MINNESOTA

Howard Liebhaber, 34- beaten and stabbed, 25 October 1992
Terry Oliver, 27- beaten and strangled, found 29 January 1993
Duane Swalve, 23- beaten and strangled, 29 April 1993
Craig Green, 34- beaten, 26 May 1993
Johnnie Williams, 48- beaten and strangled, 15 July 1994
Steven Fox, 25- bludgeoned, neck broken, 20 July 1994

MISSISSIPPI
Robert Walters, 34- gunshot wound to the head, 8 October 1994
Joseph Shoemake, 24- gunshot wound to the head, 8 October 1994
Stanley King, 24- shot, 15 December 1994

MISSOURI
William Childs, 27- beaten, stabbed, throat slit, 22 April 1993
Craig Johnson, 23- gunshot wound to the head, 27 June 1993

NEBRASKA
Brandon Teena, 21- execution-style shooting, 31 December 1993

NEVADA
William Metz- multiple stab wounds, 8 July 1994
Anton Walker, 54- bludgeoned, induced heart attack, August 1994

NEW JERSEY
James Septimphelter- strangeled, 5 March 1994
Harold Draper, 29- multiple stab wounds, 30 May 1992
*Thomas Mulcahey, 57- dismembered, 13 July 1992

NEW YORK
Julio Prado, 39- multiple stab wounds, 11 January 1992
Jesus Santiago, 24- beaten, 2 February 1992
Bernie Walsh, 28- bludgeoned and stabbed, 12 April 1992
Marsha P. Johnson (Malcom Michaels, Jr.), 46- drowned, 6 July 1992
Victor Bones, 20s- gunshot wound to the head, 27 July 1992
Vanathan Pleasant, III, 21- multiple gunshot wounds to the head, 19 July 1992
Brian Burke, 36- bludgeoned, found 25 October 1992
David Schwartz, 55- multiple stab wounds, found 9 November 1992
Salvatore Caggiano, 50s- strangled and burned, 26 December 1992
Stephan "Stephanie" Chapman, 20- gunshot wound to the head, December 1992
Lawrence Andrews, 44- strangled and stabbed, 11 March 1993
George "Joe" Ortiz, 40- multiple stab wounds, bludgeoned, 27 March 1993
Roosevelt "Terry" Lewis, 30s- strangled and burned, found 3 April 1993
Charles Lee- multiple stab wounds, 17 April 1993
*Anthony Marrero, 44- stabbed and dismembered, 16 May 1993
Milton Setzer, 60- throat slit, 29 June 1993
Eric Price, 25- throat slit, 29 June 1993
Dwight Greene, 44- bludgeoned, 8 July 1993
James Seward, 42- multiple stab wounds, 28 July 1993
*Michael Sakara, 56- dismembered, 31 July 1993
Jimmy Hawkins, 50- multiple stab wounds, found 15 August 1993
Mervin Wallace, mid 50s- strangled, found 30 September 1993
Jeannie Fenmore, 48- gunshot wound to the head, 23 December 1993
Pauline Campbell, 34- multiple stab wounds, 23 February 1994
Bernard Friedman, 56- multiple stab wounds, 20 April 1994
John Stella, 33- gunshot wounds, 1 May 1994
Javier Munsuri, 40- gunshot wound to the head, found 28 May 1994
Richard Whitesell, 32- multiple stab wounds, 13 June 1994
Martin Parian, 20s- gunshot wound to the head, 13 July 1994
Nelson Rawlins, 48- stabbed, found 30 July 1994
*Benjamin Rosario, 45- dismembered, 3 August 1994
Robert Kase, 44- 16 October 1994

NORTH CAROLINA
Carlos Stoner, 33- stabbed and beaten, 27 May 1992
Gerald Taylor, 66- multiple stab wounds, 20 July 1992
James Buchanan, 52- gunshot wound to the head, burned, 2 October 1994
Jerry Lee Dowdy, 50- bludgeoned, 2 October 1994



OHIO
Unidentified gay man- gunshot wounds, 13 October 1992
George S.- bludgeoned, mutilated, 10 January 1993
Eric Farrow (a.k.a. Ashley-Ann Summers)- gunshot wounds, found 20 November 1993

OKLAHOMA
Unidentified gay man, shot, March 1993

OREGON
Hattie Mae Cohens, 25- smoke inhalation due to firebombing, 26 September 1992
Brian Mock, 45- smoke inhalation due to firebombing, 26 September 1992

PENNSYLVANIA
Robert Hagan- throat slashed, found 9 August 1993
Paul Steekman, 47- beaten, 3 April 1994
Robert Harris- strangled, 5 October 1994

RHODE ISLAND
Roger Oliver, 23- beaten, near-decapitation 2 May 1994

SOUTH CAROLINA
Andre Jones, 33- bludgeoned, run over by car, 23 July 1994

TENNESSEE
Unidentified gay man- bludgeoned, 21 July 1994

TEXAS
Jose Rubio- multiple stab wounds, 1 July 1992
*Leopoldo "Paul" Quintanilla, 29- multiple stab wounds, throat and genitals cut, 23 June 1993
Nicholas West, 23- multiple gunshot wounds, 30 November 1993
*Larry Leggett- multiple stab wounds, 25 January 1994
*Joe Trevino, strangled and bludgeoned, 3 March 1994
Michael Benishek- bludgeoned and throat slit, January 1994
Tommy Musick, 48- multiple gunshot wounds, Feubruary 1994
John Anthony Burwell, 26- multiple gunshot wounds, 2 April 1994
Michael Burzinski, 29- gunshot wound to the head, 30 July 1994
Larry David Allen- multiple stab wounds, 18 August 1994

UTAH
Doug Koehler, 31- gunshot wound to the head, 15 August 1993

VIRGINIA
*Unidentified gay man, 27- strangled, 28 June 1993
*Unidentified gay man, 24- strangled, 3 September 1993
Gary Watts, 34- multiple gunshot wounds, 10 June 1994
*Henry Weatherford Jr., 50- shot, 13 June 1994
*Garland LeRoy Taylor, 24- strangled, 17 September 1994
Harold Coon- beaten and stabbed, 17 December 1994

WASHINGTON
Bradley Wantdler- multiple stab wounds, 20 June 1993

WYOMING
Roger Melner, 60s- bludgeoned, fall 1994


* Murder committed or suspected to have been committed by an antigay serial killer.


_Principal_Source_: New York City Anti-Violence Project report, 1994

[Bluebear]

92. Is THAT all???

:sarcasm:

[bliss_eternal]

113. ...!

:cry::mad: :cry::mad: :cry:
:cry: :cry: :cry:
:cry: :mad: :cry: :mad: :cry:
:cry::mad: :cry: :mad: :cry:

[NMMNG]

91. Have you lived under a rock all your life,

or are you deliberately being obtuse?

And since two examples are not enough for you are 20?

Teen shoots Mass. gay bar patrons

Suspect arrested in gay killings

Gay man must repay Air Force

http://www.gay.com/news/article.html?2005/08/04/1">Military ousts more gays for online ads

At least 16 more states consider restricting gay adoptions

Va. House OKs full text on marriage ban

Gay actor beaten, hate crime suspected

Arrests made in death of transgender teen

Slain Alabama gay teen mourned at vigil

Three face trials for anti-gay stunts in Ark.

FBI probes anti-gay mailings

Reports of anti-gay violence on the rise

D.C. transgender killings: 2nd arrest made

Man pleads guilty in lesbian's death

School district cancels gay author event

Catholic school restricts gay parents' roles

Report shows rampant police abuse of LGBTs

Trial begins over rapes of gay ex-inmate

Campus Starbucks pulls cups with gay quote

Michigan police probe torture, rape case

If not there are plenty more.

[cboy4]

96. Oh Buffy, you've missed a lot of anti-gay shit from that chick

over the past couple of days.

[NMMNG]

102. I've seen a few of the posts tonight

And my blood is boiling.

She has the nerve to accuse DUers of being lackadaisical for posting about the Oscars rather than fighting for "her" rights as a woman (yet has started at least one thread about them herself). Then she viciously denies homophobia and states outright that she doesn't give a damn about gay rights. And why, again, are we supposed to care about what she wants?

As to supporting womens rights, I do that. But I also have to work for gay rights, rights for those of minority religions/no religion (all for myself) and on behalf those I work with I advocate for the rights of those with developmental disabilities and mental illnesses. Then there are the other progressive causes that crop up from time to time. Not to mention my regular daily life of course. I have a rather full plate, so it's not like I can spend every minute of every day focused on one thing as some might like.

[WildEyedLiberal]

103. Don't be fooled by her posturing about women's rights

That was just a ruse to start her fourth (yes, FOURTH) thread continuing the flamewar she began last night. The original thread is still up - it's called "Crash deserved to win" or something like that - if you want to read the source of the lunacy. Most of the good flamey stuff got deleted, though, so it's but a pale imitation of its former glory.

[NMMNG]

105. I saw the "Crash deserved to win" tripe

I posted a snarky reply to it. That's all it deserved.

[cboy4]

104. I know. I think she has the Fred Phelps mentality:

He just gets off on fucking with people's emotions.

When people attack him about picketing funerals, he loves it in a really sick, perverted kind of way.

I believe someone who has 37,000 thousand posts since 2004 like she does must spend every waking hour trying to think of ways to fuck with people, and for the past two days, the target has been gays.

[NMMNG]

106. Then when people get fed up with her

It's "why are you attacking meeeeee" :cry:


Aye. :eyes:

[bliss_eternal]

114. Few credit the women's movement to the lesbians...

but the reality is this is who gave it a hell of a kick start... At least that's what I've learned from my reading.

:hi: Buffy--good to see you! Sorry it's under such circumstances. :(

[Behind the Aegis]

119. Daughters of Blitis!

Good call on your part!

But, then again I know you...so, I am not surprised...just thankful! :)

[bliss_eternal]

120. Aw shucks...

:blush: I just like to read and am rather information obsessed. lol. ;)

[NMMNG]

127. Although Betty Friedan considered us "The Lavender Menace"

and thought we were a threat to the women's movement. It was much like the notion some Dems have that the Party should ignore gay rights because they are hurting the Party's chances at regaining control of the White House and Congress. In other words, gays need to get to the back of the bus and STFU.


Good to see you too. I'm sure all the hullabaloo will blow over once some new "issue" crops up. :rofl:

[Behind the Aegis]

99. FBI stats

In 2004, 15% (1197) of all hate crimes incidents (7649) were committed based on sexual orientation. Of those hate crimes based on sexual orientation (1197), 738 (62%) were directed against gay men, 164 (14%) against lesbians, 245 (20%) against GLBT in general, 33 (3%) against heterosexuals, and 17 (1%) against bisexuals. (Not reported: acts against transexuals)

What about the victims?

In 2004, 16% (1482) of all hate crimes victims (9528) were because of sexual orientation. Of those hate crime victims, based on sexual orientation (1482), 902 (61%) were gay men, 212 (14%) were lesbians, 314 (21%) were against GLBT in general, 36 (2%) were heterosexuals, and 18 (1%) were bisexuals. (Not reported: transexuals victimized)

source: page 16

If I had found 2005 stats, I would have posted them. However, they may not be ready as of yet.

BTW...this has NOTHING to do with a movie, but REAL LIFE!

PS...on a "fun" note: almost 10% of all hate crime victims are GAY MEN! 1 in 10!

[NMMNG]

107. Only 15%?

Do get over yourself. :sarcasm:

















PS: Let's keep in mind that gays are only about 10% of the population, so while 15% may not seem like a big percentage, it really is, proportionally.

[readmoreoften]

110. Thanks, Aege...

So many sources, so little time.

On an interesting hate crime note, two of my students were a butch lesbian couple who were often threatened by homophobes because they were assumed to be young gay men. In my personal experience I find that gay men, butch lesbians, and transfolk seem to be the most visually vulnerable.

I'm a femme lesbian and that invites problems of its own. It's a never-ending coming out process. ("Funny you should mention your gay joke, because actually I'm gay myself.") My biggest problem was that, as a younger woman, straight men thought I belonged to them and that my butch lovers were "taking me out of the pool." As long as they conceptualized my lovers as feminine they could accept my homosexuality because it they thought it was something that included them (two women! hot!) But when they learned that I dated masculine women and was not gay for the sake of their fantasy, quite a few became hostile...some even physically.

It really is never-ending.

[Behind the Aegis]

118. Not a prob!

I am more 'femme' (guy) and that makes me an easy target. Just a few months ago I was at a restaurant, and when I looked out the window, there was a teen boy mouthing "are you a faggot?" I was sitting and eating food, I wasn't sucking cock or in a tiara, I was just me... Of course, the smart ass that I am, I mouthed back "why? you looking for a date? Too bad, I like real men, not boys!" That shut his pie-hole!

My partner is not "obvious." So, sometimes I can get self-conscious when we are out, because I don't want to expose him to that kind of hate. Although, he is much bigger than me, I am much more mean and vicious! :) I am always afraid someone will attack him because of me. Fortunately, most assume that I will not defend myself or him. So, when a 5'7" "fag" lunges at you and jumps onto you, the person has to ask..."is this person bluffing or will he kill my ass?" Thankfully, I haven't had to show any of them that I will "kill their ass!"

I can understand your issues as a femme lesbian. Men expect you to preform for them, in high heels, lace panties, and butterfly kisses. They think, "all she needs is a good man." No, the only ones who need a "good man" are straight women. Sadly, many of those straight women get "knuckle-draggers."

All we can hope is that other people (gay and straight and every other variety) have read what we have posted, keep the faith, and understand they are not alone!

[readmoreoften]

122. Talking about movies, did you ever see Paragraph 175?

That was the most overwhelming documentary I'd ever seen by far. Gay holocaust survivors who never spoke of their experience in the camps because when they returned, they went back to their German families. 80-90 year old men relieving raw, unspeakable pain before your eyes. It is, hands down, the harshest most overwhelming documentary I've ever seen.

And with that, off I go!

[Behind the Aegis]

126. I haven't seen it.

We own it. We have 3000 DVDs (my partner's weakness...besides me). He made me watch "Schindler's List" one night...I cried for two hours...after the fucking movie was over! I have seen "Bent." That movie will rip your heart out!

After all the mishigas in the past two days, I should watch it. Though, it is hard to remind myself that I am hated for being a Jew and gay (from both sides, it seems), I need to remember those who came before me and laid the groundwork so that I can sit in a home and type away on the internet. They didn't have the luxury I have. Perhaps, I should be reminded that the pain I have is not as great, but still as important, as those who paved the way for me.

Thank you for your contributions in the past two days!

[bliss_eternal]

111. What about poor Brandon Teena?

He was brutally raped, beaten and killed at the hands of two sadistic pieces of shit that needed to destroy that which they chose not to understand.

They could have just walked away, not associated with him. No, they had to punish him. Show him how much they hated him--what a freak they believed him to be.

:puke:

[Maddy McCall]

112. Hi, bliss.

See my post two posts below this one. It was a tragic story.

[bliss_eternal]

121. Hi Maddy!

I just posted to you below... :hi:

I recall reading of his story. I also saw when they covered the case on American Justice, prior to the film being released. I saw the American Justice again AFTER the film. It never got easier to watch his story.

[Maddy McCall]

124. I've not seen the American Justice on him.

I did see the movie. Probably watched it 10 times. It remains one of my favorite movies--although it is painful to watch.

I have a gender dysphoric sibling. Teena's story really hit home with me.

:hi:

[Starbucks Anarchist]

130. See post #129.

I certainly don't want to speak for anybody, but I think my post better clarifies what FreedomAngel82 meant.

[Maddy McCall]

93. Add Brandon Teena to the list

He was beaten to death for his transgender lifestyle.

[bliss_eternal]

115. I added him above...(sorry)

I hadn't read this far first. That's a great picture of Brandon!

[Maddy McCall]

95. Jeffrey Todd Owens

[readmoreoften]

97. Oh hell, that list ends in 1994.

Add a couple thousand to that list.

[Maddy McCall]

101. You're preaching to the choir.

:)

Yes, I know. I'm adding names that were in the news as I remember them.

[FreedomAngel82]

44. And you think because a group of people running around

with megaphones means the whole population is like them? I know lots of Christian's who are for gay rights and not just myself. You still haven't shown any sort of proof. Oh yeah the Academy not making a movie win is really going to change society! Damn Rosa Parks just did civil rights for attention! That Media whore! :sarcasm:

[WildEyedLiberal]

52. You'd better stop while you're fucking ahead.

"You still haven't shown any proof"

You're either deliberately obtuse, stupid as hell, or a raging homophobe. Those are the ONLY reasons you could sit here with a straight face and deny that there is homophobia in this country.

[FreedomAngel82]

74. Don't put words in my mouth

I didn't say it isn't IN the country. Nobody denies that, but you're going to base a WHOLE population (do you know what that means??) because of a group of people who have megaphones and believe they have power? You're pathetic.

[QC]

136. You know, it's not really an either/or/or kind of thing.

It's perfectly possible for someone to be deliberately obtuse, stupid as hell, and a raging homophobe, you know.

[Behind the Aegis]

48. Well,

as Parker Posey said to "Will" in "Will and Grace" as she thought he was asking her out on a date..."I think I threw up a little." :)

[Maddy McCall]

54. Surely you aren't surprised, considering the gourdhead from which...

that comment emanated.

:freak:

[Bluebear]

56. Riiight.

I have never seen such a hysterical, maddening defense of any topic in my years here. What on earth could bother someone so much about a frigging movie!

[Maddy McCall]

62. You don't know anything about me! Than why do you insult me?

You don't want me here because I stand up against rascisms and besides that I have gay friends and I always correct my Christian friends when they talk about queers and why do you care so much about this movie that you attack me and you owe me an apology!

:silly: :freak: :banghead:

[GRLMGC]

64. That's actually pretty accurate

hahahaha

[Bluebear]

65. Um, I think it was a metaphorical question.

[Maddy McCall]

66. Shut up, homo!

Prove it. Prove there's homophobia in America. What would Jesus do. Well he sure as hell wouldn't watch the Passion of Christ because rascism against Muslims is disgusting! You are no better than a freeper and you owe me an apology and why do you care so much about the movie anyway. Than you should look at yourself and quit attacking me bitch!

:silly:

(Not Maddy's sentiments. Just an imitation of the logic I've seen tonight.)

[Bluebear]

67. Look your the one who got Bush elected not me.

Thanks a lot. Now I have to live with it for year's to come. What have YOU done about it? Or doesn't that fit your little smear champagne?

..gnite :)

[Maddy McCall]

68. G'night, friend.

:)

[WildEyedLiberal]

69. ........

:rofl:

:spray:

[FreedomAngel82]

76. Wow day two and you guys are still going at it!

How pathetic. Do you guys not have jobs at all? :shrug:

[GRLMGC]

79. Please

I've been on DU longer than you have and you have 9 times as many posts as I do. I wouldn't pull out the "life" card if I were you.

[WildEyedLiberal]

80. LOL SAYS THE PERSON WITH 37,000 POSTS

All you do is sit on your ass all day at your parents' house posting at DU - how the fuck else could you get 37,000 posts in a year?

You have no fucking life.

[FearofFutility]

143. I'm fairly certain there is a diagnosis that applies

My head is spinning trying to make sense out of it. Completely illogical...

[QC]

137. LOL! Perfect! n/t

[FreedomAngel82]

75. Right a movie I could care less about?

You guys are the only one's making a shit about it. Why don't you go dump it out of your ass?

[GRLMGC]

77. Your rapier like wit is so sharp

It hurts us all

[0007]

139. I think I will! You...you...smooth talking feline.

[Bluebear]

159. .

[fujiyama]

98. IF it's true

that members didn't screen it or "weren't interested", that's shameful.

I mean, I haven't seen it because I'm not into love stories or romances. But if I were judging a film to present an award, then I definetely would have seen it and judged it on its merits.

[bliss_eternal]

116. What's really obvious--

is the fact that celebs are so damned spoiled and STILL didn't see it.

Academy members that are eligible to vote are given the opportunity to see the films at special screenings--free of course--with extra amenities of their choice.

All you have to do is fuckin' show up, sit on your ass and watch a movie and you STILL can't be bothered to see it?!

:wtf:

[foo_bar]

125. Tony Curtis, paragon of heterosexual cinema?

Curtis is recalling his stint in 1959’s Some Like It Hot, in which he played a musician named Joe who, along with his pal Jerry (the irrepressible Jack Lemmon), witness the St. Valentine’s Day Massacre and hide out from the mob dolled up as Josephine and Daphne, joining an all-girl big band.

http://www.metroweekly.com/feature/?ak=71

"Nobody's perfect!"

[QC]

138. Curtis has been widely rumored to be a closet case for decades.

That's what makes his comments on this thing even more absurd.

[NYCGirl]

151. I'd never heard that Curtis was gay, but Ed Wood had said that Curtis

was indeed a transvestite.

[Rockholm]

141. Proof is in the pudding.

And there twernt no queers in that there pudding.

I for one saw NO out gay actors at the Academy Awards. I nobody who portayed a gay person win an award. Who even mentioned "gay" at an acceptance speech? (I saw a clip of Ang Lee, that was it).

AND WHY THE FUCK DID BBM HAVE AN R RATING? There is more explicit "sex" on daytime soap operas and "Desparate Housewives" than what was depicted in the pup-tent scene.

Homophobia is alive and well in America.

[indigo32]

145. Point of order

Phillip Seymour Hoffman portrayed a gay man.

[Rockholm]

148. You are right.

My bad.

[stray cat]

142. Should it have won because the characterters were gay?

Did it get such positive attention because it was a great movie or because of its subject matter?

[Bluebear]

163. It was an awesome movie. nt

[Throd]

144. Tony Curtis is still alive?!?!

To me, that is the biggest news.

[Bluebear]

150. OK...

THAT is funny :)

[NYCGirl]

152. IMO, the biggest breakthrough gay movie was released in 1970 —

http://tinyurl.com/l6boa

"The Boys in the Band" never even received one Oscar nomination.

[bliss_eternal]

160. I've heard of this movie, I think...

I wonder if it was even given a wide relase? In 1970, I would be shocked if they showed it outside of drive-in movies... :(

[Capn Sunshine]

156. Is it possible

That in the context of things, Crash got more votes for best picture because it WAS?

[Bluebear]

158. Yes. But this thread is about Academy voters who wouldn't see BBM

How could you proclaim what a best anything is without having seen ALL the entries?

[bliss_eternal]

161. One can't...

that's the point. They didn't even give it a chance. If other Academy members had Curtis' attitude, the film never stood a chance with them.