I really need DU's advice

[joeprogressive]

In 2 1/2 years my wife and I will be free of the constraints of our current situation which involves finishing up my education and her residency. At that point we could literally move to any place in the country to set up her practice. In reality we could go anywhere in the world that spoke predominantly English.

The dilemma: We currently reside in a very conservative county in conservative Texas. It wears on us daily and we long to live near progressives that share our ideals. I have posted many times here asking for advice about progressive communities and have received many helpful and interesting replies that we had not considered before. The other part of the equation is that we have many friends nearby and some family albeit our friends and family are conservative.

The problem is that we find fault with just about every place we look into. Northern California would be an ideal setting but too expensive. Areas like Burlington Vermont seem attractive but too cold. Seattle/Portland areas appear great but you get about half the people say the rain is a problem. Also, like other attractive areas, they are becoming very expensive. New Zealand seems perfect but too far from friends and family. You get the gist. If we could find Cicely, Alaska where people are diverse, engaged, informed, and interesting we would be in heaven. We don't need a Starbucks on every corner, just a handful of restaurants, many outdoor options, and a hospital. Will the grass always be greener on the other side when looking for this ideal place? If we find a great spot will we eventually long to come back to this conservative hell hole because of friends/family?

If anyone has been in a similar situation I would love to hear your thought process. I would also like to hear more ideas about great progressive communities whether they are big or little towns. My biggest concern is for my two year old son. Although I don't want him completely sheltered from life's negative side, I want him to know what it is like to be around people that are enlightened and open minded. I know these are ultimately questions we will have to answer ourselves but we are more in tune with the people of DU than those around us on a daily basis.

Thanks in advance for any and all advice.

[motocicleta]

1. I can identify with your Cicely fantasy

I currently live in Boston and will likely be heading back home to Portland, so I don't think I have anything too helpful to offer, but I will be watching this thread as I have VERY similar issues.

For me, I love Portland, but I would much prefer a smaller, more Cicely-like environment. However my experience of smaller communities has not been attractive enough to lure me away from stumptown. The rain and gray skies do wear me out by this time of year, but it has never been enough to drive me out. The lack of good groceries and progressive, intellectual mindsets in small towns has always been a bigger problem for my family and I.

[joeprogressive]

10. Yeah, the only small town I have found that was really progressive

was Sebastopol, CA. However, it is very expensive there. It seems like the smaller a town gets the more closed minded. I know this is a stereotype so I apologize to all the small progressive towns out there. I just think Cicely is very unrealistic and that is what was so humorous about the show. Loggers standing up in town council meetings and quoting philosophers.

[motocicleta]

15. funny you should mention Sebastopol

My mother lives there, and my sisters both live in Santa Rosa. Not only did they get in before it got way too expensive, but the very fact that they live there probably means I can't.

Other than that, I absolutely love the area, and would highly recommend it.

Oh, and there is the fact that one of my sisters is a doctor there, and says the regulatory / insurance setup in Sonoma county is particularly onerous to the point of making it very difficult to find doctors to come and practice there.

[joeprogressive]

23. Interesting, I thought CA was cheaper than Texas as far as malpractice

Are you referring to medical insurance?

[motocicleta]

60. I don't know what I am referring to, all I know is my sister

thinks her county is worse than Cali in general. I can ask, if you'd like.

[Tommy_J]

2. Southern CA?

I moved to the mountains just north of San Bernardino 3 years ago and really like it here. Good weather, not too crowded or expensive by CA standards, tolerable commutes to "civilization". After spending over 4 decades in the midwest I lament not coming here sooner. Just my 2 cents.

[joeprogressive]

12. How hot is it?

One of the main reasons we want to leave, that I did not mention, is the extreme heat. Texas summers are the worst. They also last 6 months.

[calimary]

96. It can get hot here in So Cal in the late summer and WELL into fall

and even "winter."

Besides, Forbes magazine just did an article showing that, of the 12-worst cities/areas of the country for bad traffic, L.A. is NUMBER ONE. I coulda told anybody that. It's getting pretty damned monstrous on the roads around here. But it is RAWTHER true-blue, and we do have George Clooney here (and others who are PROUDLY "out of touch")!

[Capn Sunshine]

116. Having lived in Texas for two years

as a So Cal native, there's NOTHING remotely close to that oppresive Texas heat.

Couple of days in August , it gets too hot usually that's not an issue.

[The Straight Story]

150. Tehachapi, California. About 4000 feet up, in SO Cali

Not too hot and winters with snow :)

[JohnWxy]

114. Sounds fantastic! can you recommend some locations??

I'm interested! My biggest concern is the housing costs though. I mean it seems everything starts out at $300K out there!

[OnionPatch]

122. I lived there for awhile.

I loved it. The weather was great, never too hot, even in the summer. Winter can be very snowy but never gets much below freezing.

It seemed pretty mixed to me as far as conservatives/liberals but the whole metro area "down the mountain" is pretty conservative, isn't it? And sadly, it's starting to get pretty expensive up there these days as well.

[Poll_Blind]

3. Look into Eugene, Oregon...

It's about two hours south of Portland. It's a very liberal town- arguably the most liberal town in Oregon. It's alot smaller than Portland though- only about 200,000 people. I've lived here for 20 years. Pretty decent place to raise children. You should check into it.

From my little town:


PB

[CrispyQ]

18. I would love to move to Eugene!

Spent a few summers there as a kid.

[Jim Lane]

32. And other university towns

Many years ago, I read an article about America's "reverse Gulag Archipelago" -- the collection of small towns with large universities. The idea was that places like Austin, Texas and Ann Arbor, Michigan have more in common with each other than with the places around them. I moved from Amherst, Massachusetts to Chapel Hill, North Carolina and found a great deal of truth in the comment. Chapel Hill was almost as liberal as Amherst despite being in a much more conservative state. The presence of a large university makes a big difference in terms of the cultural opportunities and the types of people who tend to live there.

[joeprogressive]

36. Interesting,; I would like to read that article if you could find the sour

It definitely is not the case where I went to school, Texas A&M. How my wife and I escaped there without being brainwashed is beyond me. That place is plain scary.

[BlueIris]

78. Yeah, sure, move there if you want to deal with polluted water,

stupid assholes, shockingly high cost of living, stupid assholes, a city without an infrastructure, (not a good place for half-way intelligent health professionals, especially those with formal education) stupid assholes, massive corruption and IT IS NOT A GOOD PLACE TO RAISE KIDS. Well, unless you can afford to buy a house in the one district with one of the state's best high schools, which, well, there are other cities with schools like it that you could move to, not have to live in filthy conditions (environmental damage there is a big problem) or with braindead morons calling themselves liberal.

I lived there for five years (left in '02, could not get away fast enough, and from what I hear from friends still stuck in that hell, it has only gotten worse). You'd be better off almost anywhere else in Oregon. Just move to a suburb of Portland. She should be able to get a great job there (and Oregon docs have basically no accountability for anything they do, so she won't have to worry about getting sued, no matter what her colleagues whine to her about so you should be able to live comfortably there after a decade or so). Public schools are imploding, but let's just say you'll be culturally fulfilled. I go to Portland every couple of weeks and snob it up with the best of them. At least most residents there are educated.

[ewagner]

4. Are you involved in the medical profession?

If so check this out:

https://my.marshfieldclinic.org/CSS_External/CSSPage_Welcome.asp

Blue state
cold winters but grreat for Cross-country skiing or downhill.
beautiful summers
lots of lakes
nice scenery
honest people

(Recent example: I personally know of a lady who found a $100 bill in a snow bank at a public place. She turned it over to reception and they identified that an elderly man had, just the friday before, come in to report that a $100 bill had blown out of his hand when he was coming in to pay his bill. They returned the money to him. The woman who found the money wanted to remain unnamed)

If we can run the Repubs out of the majority in the State Legislature, we'll be in much better shape.

[joeprogressive]

6. Yes

I am a public health researcher and involved in community health development and the wife is a physician. Where is this? I didn't see the location on the web site.

[ewagner]

14. Marshfield, Wisconsin

Right, dead, center in Wisconsin.

Marshfield Clinic as over 600 Medical Dr.s
Marshfield Research Foundation has tons of PhDs and research fellows...

It employs over 4,000 people in a community of 20,000 (but CW area is about 100,000 people)

[joeprogressive]

16. Sounds great

You always hear how great Madison is. I had not heard of Mashfield but will definitely look into it.

[Kierkegaard]

25. Wisconsin is a great place, but...

the property taxes will kill you. There is a mass exodus of professional people from the suburban Milwaukee area that is bound to worsen the tax problem. I've lived here for 25 years or so, but I'm now moving to Huntersville, NC.

In Huntersville, you're half an hour from a major city with lots of activities, but nestled quietly in a booming town of 37,000 (275% population increase over 10 years!) You'll be close to the mountains, the ocean, enjoy 520 miles of beach front, technological competence, excellent services and prime real estate at good prices.

I know I'm probably heading into the lion's den, but at least in Mecklenburg county, the locals voted for Kerry 52%-48%. I'm intent on changing some minds and considering a run for local office sometime in the future.

[joeprogressive]

27. Not worried about one aspect of taxes such as property taxes

because where we live now has some of the highest (about 3%) However, home prices are cheapest in the country here so it balances out. I am willing to spend more to get a great community but not sure about bay area prices. I am afraid people that have bought into that market in the past 5-10 years could be in big trouble if there is ever a bust. Stats show people are buying 8-10 times their annual salary. This is problematic. I am content with 2-4 times but not mush more.

[Kierkegaard]

37. WI has an enormous tax burden. One of the highest in the nation.

The property values are likewise insane, at least for the time being.
My wife and I bought a home in 2000 that we sold just this week for a 36% profit over and above our original investment. That is totally bananas. Of course, I'm not giving the money back, but if you aren't interested in investing a ton of money in real estate, I wouldn't look here.

[joeprogressive]

47. 6% annualized is pretty normal

They are running at 15-25% on the west coast. What is the property tax rate?

[Kierkegaard]

54. California doesn't qualify as part of our planet, though.

The property tax range here is about 1.6 to 3.4%. Couple that with stupid real estate prices and it doesn't make for happy residents. It's breaking the backs of a lot of blue collar folks around here (it's been a popular topic of political discourse for quite some time.)

This might help: http://www.bankrate.com/brm/itax/edit/state/profiles/state_tax_Wisc.asp

[joeprogressive]

56. Yes, that would be a tough pill for the blue collar workers

if it was a recent trend. Does anyone get the sense that the most desirable places=most expensive=blue areas.

[Capn Sunshine]

117. where are you?

the property tax rate is 1.25% of the assessed value , which is usually your purchase price.

I'm not sure what the other .35 to 2.15% would be for...

[Critters2]

64. My dad lives in WI

and loves it. All his siblings and cousins keep trying to get him to move to Florida with them, especially since my mom died. But he loves WI and won't leave, even with the taxes. And he's a bit of a pennypincher. He must think the tax burden is worth it for the quality of life.

[Kierkegaard]

91. There is certainly that aspect of the argument to consider.

It's a beautiful place with some really great people.

My primary concern is the technology vacuum here. My wife an I are both in the IT field and the market has gradually diminished since 2000, as have the associated compensations. Coupled with the rising cost of living, it just doesn't make any sense for us to stay. We realized quickly that if we wanted to retire at a reasonable age, we would have to reduce our expenses. We also didn't want to compromise our standard of living to accomplish that goal, so we were essentially left with the prospect of moving to a less costly environment.

[Strong Atheist]

5. There is no such thing as the "perfect" place. The whole Cinderella

complex causes more people more problems with their lives, I swear... Just pick a place with the most pluses and the least minuses, and be happy...

[Thtwudbeme]

7. There is for me

Asheville, NC.

There is nothing about the place I dislike.

[joeprogressive]

13. That is our next trip

We are trying to visit 4-5 places in the next few years and were planning on going to the LEAF festival in May. I have heard so many good things about Asheville. Is it true it becomes really conservative once you leave the city limits?

[Thtwudbeme]

19. Yes and no

Here's the thing about leaving Asheville (other than why would you want to? ;) ) The drive to Charlotte, Atlanta, Knoxville, Raleigh, Atlanta, Washington DC, is pretty much interstate---nice, pretty interstates with tons of scenery.

I lived there for 10 years, and of course I ran into redneck jackasses--can't be helped. But, I should tell you some hair raising redneck jackass stories from 3 feet outside downtown Portland, OR.

Do you all have a place to stay in Asheville yet? If not, I would like to make some suggestions--as I said, I lived there, and should be the tourism promoter!

[DamnYank]

17. I second Asheville

It's a great place and the area medical establishment is top-notch. Lots to do, very happening for a small city. Great outdoor recreation. All four seasons are present but none are severe.

If you don't pick Asheville someone else will. :hippie:

[Critters2]

68. If you're in medicine

I recommend Rochester, MN. Of course, you've already whined about Vermont being cold, so that may be a problem (to which I would simply respond "Grow the hell up!"). Minnesota is about as progressive a state as you'll find, the scenery is beautiful, and Rochester has a great cultural life.

And most homes and offices in the Midwest now have central heat and hot and cold running water.

:sarcasm:

[joeprogressive]

75. Why the hostility

I dare you to spend a few summers in Texas without "whining" Plus, the aversion to cold is more about my wife than me.

Plus stating Vermont is too cold when I have never been there is simply an assumption I have. I actually was in Philly in November and recall being one of the few people walking around in short sleeves. I remember thinking, aren't these people used to the cold. I am very warm blooded, I just don't want to shovel snow 100 days a year to get my car out of the garage. I also want to do activities outside that don't involve snow.

[Critters2]

77. I've never lived anywhere that wasn't hot and humid in the summer

and cold and snowy in the winter. You're not going to find the perfect place on this side of the Styx, so again...grow the hell up! You remind me of the doctors around here, whose parking places are actually CLOSER to the doors of the hospital than the handicapped parking places. God forbid they should get their feet wet.

[Thtwudbeme]

90. I have lived in places where the weather was perfect.

I have never seen more perfect weather in my entire life than Asheville. Ever.

I have lived in nine different states on both coasts.

Sorry you have missed it.

Btw---I am 42, and I would move to your area when hell freezes over. I don't give a flying rats ass if I had Hillary Clinton on one side, and the children of Martin Luther King on the other.

[Critters2]

119. Then stay where you are

we have enough assholes here as it is.

[Thtwudbeme]

128. I imagine you do--"Birds of a feather....."

eh?

You must feel right at home.

[Critters2]

130. Tell me again what a kind, caring soul you are

I personally think you should stay in Texas. I imagine you fit in well there.

*ignore*

[joeprogressive]

101. are you angry about something

or just have a problem with doctors?

BTW there are plenty of places that don't fit the criteria you mentioned. NOCAL has virually no snow and very mild summers.

[CTyankee]

97. Too bad, because Vermont needs more people in your age range

Don't know if you could get a job but I bet your wife could. What is her specialty?

[joeprogressive]

102. Family Medicine

n/t

[Lorien]

147. Vermont is painfully cold-and dark-throughout most of the winter

not a good place for someone with seasonal affective disorder (maybe that's what's being displayed here-the hostility does seem quite irrational) or someone who doesn't generally really enjoy participating in winter sports-BUT it certainly is a gorgeous state, and the people are friendly and interesting. There are certainly areas that offer great people and scenery without eight months of winter and four months of bad sledding. (that last bit belongs to Mark Twain, not me) ;-)

[Arugula Latte]

107. Jeez.

That is a lot of hostility ... just because some people don't like extreme cold, being bundled up for month after month, shoveling out the car, getting a few months of warmth before it starts to chill down again ... Others hate the pounding heat of, say, Arizona. What's the problem?

Aversion to an extreme climate a completely rational and completely common feeling. A lot of people feel that life is rather short, so why spend it somewhere that makes you long to be elsewhere if climate is a factor in your happiness (which, for most people, it is)?.

:shrug:

[joeprogressive]

110. Thanks, that is exactly how I feel.

My mood is profoundly affected by the weather. Plus I sweat profusely even though I am in good shape. I hate the feeling of feeling sticky all the time. I don't mind sweating when I recreate but getting drenched every time you check the mail is ridiculous.

[Critters2]

118. There are ordinary, working people in the climates you're complaining abou

the kind of people Democrats say we care about, who need doctors and other services. But people coming right out of school aren't really interested in providing care for others, they're concerned about making life easy for themselves. I've served great people in places that were completely written off by those like this jerk, who won't live where it's cold.

I've been on two community committees to try to attract doctors to small towns in the Midwest. We promised them everything under the sun, but kept getting turned down, because it was too cold, or it was too far from Chicago or New York, or because there was no place to get a jaguar serviced (honest to God). Apparently they're teaching a course in med schools called "Why You're too Good to live with Normal People" and everybody we interviewed passed with flying colors.

Happily, there's an Osteopathic school in Des Moines that turns out rational people. On the second committee I was on, we just stopped looking at MD's.

So I hope you find that special place with lots of progressives and perfect weather. God forbid life should be challenging.

[joeprogressive]

124. Oh, now it makes perfect sense

You assumed my wife and I were just out of school. Unfortunately this assumption is way off. First of all I worked nine years in a job that meant little pay and was all about serving the community. After that I went back to school to work on Master's and PhD. My wife took a similar path. I currently work in a job where I get payed very little and all I do is try to find health care solutions for the indigent; so don't preach to me about being self serving. Even if I was right out of school why do you care if I want to go to a nice area?

Did I ever say anything about going somewhere to make a lot of money. The only reason we were avoiding areas that had high doctor populations is that we wanted to go to an area that we could make a difference. You have been way out of line especially calling me a jerk. If you ever want to compare resumes to show this forum who has done more to help people with their health care, bring it on. I guarantee you, you will feel very small. I can see why you couldn't attract docs. They didn't want to work with people like you.

I do appreciate every other comment on this board from people that didn't judge my whole life without knowing the complete story.

[Critters2]

125. So you're done serving the indigent now

Now you're in need of the right climate? Please, I'd be perfectly willing to compare resumes. I have never decided I was done serving those in need. I've spent my whole career doing it, and don't intend to stop. And in places with *gasp* harsh climates. But you've got a PhD, so you deserve a break from caring for others.

And I've told you why doctors didn't come to serve us. They were too good to serve in rural Iowa. It was too cold.

[joeprogressive]

126. I f you are honestly a democrat and one that serves the indigent

I find it hard to believe that you can so flippantly call me a jerk and the other guy an asshole. You must really be insecure. I never said anything negative to you prior to you calling me a jerk. What is your problem? When did I ever say we were finished taking care of the indigent? I just want to live in a nice place. You are going to hate me for that. I am sorry you are unhappy with your lot in life. You must be, because that is the only explanation I can come up why you continue to attack me.

[Arugula Latte]

127. Maybe the doctors didn't want to come because of this guy's

very belligerent personality ... :eyes: Jeez. Just because someone has a preference for how/where they want to live -- THE NERVE! If their ideas don't mesh with his set-in-stone judgmental convictions, and they are jerks and assholes. I think you're right -- I sense a lot of anger and unhappiness. Whew.

[joeprogressive]

129. I venture to guess he is stuck in Iowa and pretty pissed about it

Sorry bud, don't blame me. His statements to the effect that indigent reside in crappy places is ridiculous. The medically indigent are everywhere and the homeless tend to live in temperate climates. My selfish wife, the one that has no business considering nice places to live, worked for a homeless ministry in San Diego. How dare those homeless people pick nice places to leach off of people when they can find jobs in places like Iowa. Sarcasm off.

[Critters2]

134. Actually, I'm trying to get back to Iowa

precisely because I was needed there. I want to meet people's needs. Regardless of climate. Crazy, huh? When there are all those warm places in need of more over-paid professionals.

[Critters2]

133. I'm happy where I am

but I watch the people I serve being told all the time, and in all kinds of ways, that they are hicks, that they live in places no sane person would live, that they don't deserve the same services as people in warm, wealthy, happy places--you know, the places where you want to live. I love the people I serve, but they are treated as the dregs of society, not because of what they do or who they are, but because of where they live.

Here's a crazy thought, why don't you go where you're needed, regardless of what the weather is like? Or do you need a place where you can get your jaguar serviced?

[joeprogressive]

137. You become more foolish by the post

I drive a 10 year old vehicle with just under 200 K miles. It is worth about $800. I am sorry that my wife just traded in her vehicle but it did have almost 300 K on the odometer. The fact that I even have to justify anything to you is ridiculous but I will continue to do it to show everyone here how ignorant you sound.

As for the disbursement of the medically indigent, I will bet you they are in higher proportion in the places I have worked than in Iowa. I am sure you knew that Texas ranks last in uninsured for adults and children and 47th in mental health spending. Maybe it is you that should move from your cozy gig. When you think you know me, try another insult and I will shoot you down again. This was a simple thread to illicit some opinions on nice places to live. I am sure if I went to San Francisco and worked at the Haight/Ashbury free clinic you would criticize me for going somewhere nice. Get a life.

[Critters2]

151. You made your priorities clear when you said you simply COULDN'T

live in Vermont because it's *gasp* cold. THAT is ridiculous. You sound like a spoiled child. But that's fine...the best and most decent people I've ever known live where it's cold. So, you go ahead and stay in the sunbelt, where life is easy. Again, I wouldn't want you to have to be wet or cold or in anyway uncomfortable.

By the way, if there were a Cicely, Alaska, it would be cold. I've actually lived in a place much like that, in Iowa. Interesting, progressive people who are free to live as they want because they are off the beaten track and no one pays much attention to them.

But they do shovel snow in the winter, so that couldn't go on your list.

[motocicleta]

145. Seriously though: what the fuck are you talking about?

You obviously hate doctors for not wanting to come to Iowa. I don't care. Your whole rant has been so incredibly moronic and ignorant I want to puke.

joeprogressive, just ignore this fool. You have no reason to defend yourself against him or her. I assume critter will wake up tomorrow with a worse hangover than normal and will try and forget the worst idiocy I've ever seen outside of freerepublic.com.

[Thtwudbeme]

131. For years, I worked as a paramedic in Missouri

I worked through ice storms that were so bad that we wore golf type spikes on boots just to get to people's houses.

I went to wrecks at 3 fucking AM when the weather was so cold my lactated ringers would form ice crystals as it traveled down the IV line.

I don't know if you are capable of looking at a map, but Asheville is in the Appalachians...the poorest area of the ENTIRE United States.

Hello.

Grow the hell up, or put your vodka outside in the winter.

[joeprogressive]

136. I knew I liked you for a reason

I too was a Paramedic. That was the job I said that I did for 9 years. You know, the one that pays you tons of money. I am so rich I don't bother with Jags as Critter suggests. I only buy Lexus, BMW and Benz.

[Lorien]

148. I'm thinking of moving there

I may want to PM you for some advice. Would that be OK?

[Thtwudbeme]

8. I just sent you and your wife a PM waxing nostalgia

for the mountains of NC

:)

[joeprogressive]

24. Thanks

n/t

[Tom Rinaldo]

9. We moved to the Catskills region near Woodstock in New York

We used to live near San Francisco but it was way too expensive. We looked at Burlington, but yeah, too cold. The Township we live in has 3500 people and no stop lights. We are surrounded by gentle mountains with a good sized stream. It is no where near as cold as southern Vermont and the winters here end when they should, in Spring, and Fall is full length also. New York City is two to three hours away based on how and when you go there. The greater Hudson Valley is lovely, with a rich history of Arts. There is a combination of folks around here. Some old time rural people and some refugees from Manhattan, and the music influence carry over from Woodstock is a positive. Not everyone is progressive by any means, but progressives are well represented in the mix. PM me if you want more info on our village.

[Sammy Pepys]

11. Takoma Park, Maryland

You've got plenty of hospitals to choose from, and for the area TP is not terribly expensive. Additionally, there are lots of employment options for you as a public health researcher. Plenty of nature within an hours drive, plus history, plus Washington, D.C. right next door.

[SmokingJacket]

20. I wouldn't let weather affect your decision too much...

if there's rain, that means there's no snow, plus you can have a kickass garden. If there is snow, like in Burlington, there's winter sports -- plus, kids love snow. I happen to live in a part of the world where the weather officially sucks -- upstate New York -- but I adore the change of seasons.

There are positive sides to almost every kind of climate.

Also, you'll make new friends, for sure, especially if you have a kid, so I wouldn't worry about that either. (And I find I get along with my conservative family MUCH better living apart from them.)

In all my travels, my least favorite area was Texas... so, IMHO, you'll enjoy wherever you go! (I'm sure there are nice areas of Texas, too... ;-) )

Could it be that you're nit-picking because you're nervous about leaving your familiar surroundings?

Missoula, Montana, is a wonderful city, though not particularly diverse. I love Seattle and Portland Oregon, too. Ithaca, New York, is liberal, diverse, and has many good restaurants and a lively arts community, great public schools, and beautiful natural surroundings, which is why I chose it when I was in a similar situation to you....

[joeprogressive]

26. nitpicking; yes to an extent

But we have an opportunity most don't and that is to go anywhere. The odds are we will leave but I want to be objective and realistic about it. There are some pluses where we live now: cheap, family and friends. However the negatives are mounting and I want to make sure that wherever we choose has many more positives than negatives. I know there is no perfect place but near perfection would do.

[joeprogressive]

35. One thing I didn't explain about the friends situation:

These are lifelong friends that go back to elementary school. Although it will be fun to make new friends in another area, we have a unique situation in which we grew up together, parted for school/jobs and have now re-assembled back in our old stomping grounds. Our kids are all about the same age and it would be very cool to see them grow up together given our history. Weird maybe, but kind of cool.

[SmokingJacket]

45. Would it be possible to try a place out for a year or two?

Maybe rent out your house? As long as your son is still a preschooler, it won't be too disruptive to him.

If you don't try it, you'll probably always be wondering what it would be like to live somewhere else...

[joeprogressive]

58. Yes, if my wife worked for a clinic chain.

However if we want to get her solo/group practice up and running, that is difficult. You need to be willing to be committed to your choice once you stake your claim and begin building the practice.

[joeprogressive]

41. Weather is pretty high on our priorities

It affects my entire being. I need a fair amount of sunshine but most of all I love moderate to cool climates. Heat drives me insane and makes me angry. Also, you tend to exercise less in hot climates.

[Tom Rinaldo]

105. My girlfriend refused to consider anywhere with warmer Summers

than where we moved. The higher altitude here helped. She grew up as a Pacific Coastal gal and she thrives on moderate tempatures.

[Webster Green]

21. Northern California....it's worth it!

The cost of living is higher here, but so is the quality of life.

It's breathtakingly beautiful, and extremely progressive.

Don't forget, the cost of living being higher here, means that you will be paid more for your services than you might in a other areas.:hi:

[joeprogressive]

30. Yeah, especially the farther north you get

Home prices drop almost 40%-50% when you get to Ukiah. Anyone familiar with Mendocino county and its pros/cons?

[Greyhound]

42. An alternative view of NoCal.

I don't know you, of course, but you should be aware that Northern California is only great if you would be comfortable living in the left-wing version of TX. IOW, they are as extreme to the left as, say, Houston is to the right. Nearly every aspect of life falls under the purview of the nanny-state. I've lived in both NoCal and SoCal and really preferred SoCal.

[joeprogressive]

59. That is interesting, could you elaborate?

n/t

[Greyhound]

81. As restrictive as the right-wing wackos are in places like TX, FL, MO,

you know the list, are comparable to the left-wingers that control NoCal, especially SF. Some examples are restrictions on the type of dog you can own (they outlawed all of the mastiff breeds in SF), total ban of handgun ownership (unless you're rich and/or a politician), the blatant discrimination against smokers, etc.
I'm not saying this is all bad, millions of people just love it and SF is one of the world's greatest cities. For myself I prefer to deal with people directly, rather than legislating everybody's life because of a few assholes.
Oh yes, one other thing, I've never been anywhere, except possibly NYC, where the people are more afraid of everything than NoCal.

[JohnWxy]

115. I am very interested in NOrthern California.

Can you recommend some locations? Smaller towns are nice but you kinda have to have some income too. The scenery really interests me. Thanks in advance.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

22. The progressive oases out there

are in red states with university towns. Like the one I live in.

I hear Chapel Hill, N.C. is near perfect weather-wise and lovely.

New Zealand...wow...that would be a dream. Get your family to follow! But actually, I know really little about it. Just my impressions that it is like the US in many way..how the US would LIKE to be, it is.

[Minnesota Libra]

28. Regardless of choices there are PROS and CONS so give up the......

....idea of the ideal place to move. I live in the Twin Cities and even though this is Wellston country it has a high cost of living. I could go on and on about all the great stuff about the Twin Cities but there are down sides too. So we are back to the pros and cons.

Take a piece of paper and divide it into three columns.

Absolute Must Really like to have Won't Put up with it

When that is done you get on the internet and find states and cities that match column one and two as close as possible without having too many from column three. Here are a couple of places to start.....
http://www.employmentspot.com/features/bestcities.htm

http://www.findyourspot.com

Job done, now start packing to move.

Good luck and let us know where you decide to go.:bounce: :hug:

[elehhhhna]

Austin?

[joeprogressive]

33. Austin is attractive in many ways

It is still close to friends/family, affordable compared to East/West coast, fairly progressive and much more outdoorsy than other cities in Texas. Cons: trending conservative, still hotter than hell, prices on the rise, and overpopulated with doctors (even in the smaller communities in the Hill Country)

[elehhhhna]

34. Albuquerque?

[joeprogressive]

39. I heard Albequerque is pretty conservative and gang violence is rising

n/t

[Why Syzygy]

70. It does get hot

but not as hot as north central Texas. Less humid. Less concrete. Maybe the overpopulation of doctors is why I noticed excellent health care options.

[Jacobin]

29. Vancouver is a great place

I'm not sure what the options are for physicians, but if you haven't been there it seems like a great place to live.

Or rural British Columbia for that matter.

[joeprogressive]

38. To give you an example how bad our health care system has gotten,

Last year was the first year that there were more physicians going to Canada from US than from Canada to US. Given that the physicians in Canada will make a little less money, that should tell you that US docs are fed up with the BS.

[FloridaPat]

31. There are American communities in Mexico. That's fairly close

to Texas. Lots of people are moving to North Carolina. Beautiful state. Lots of Starbucks and craft shows. Tennessee is beautiful. No state income tax. People are the most friendly of any state I've lived in. Yes, a red state, but Al Gore came from there.

[Blue_Roses]

40. omg--are you reading my mind?

Same situation here--in fact, we have been looking to move to Maine and I just posted about this in that forum. I have the same dilemma. We live in Arkansas, my family lives in Texas and they too are very conservative. We moved from Texas to here with my husband's job, but I am not happy here. I, like you, want to be near progressive like-minded people and honestly want to get out of the south for awhile. I've lived here all my life and I'm tired of the hot, hot summers and lack of the change of seasons. Our family likes the cold weather and snow and I think we would be happy with a move to Maine, but won't know until we do it.

We are still weighing our options, but since we have given our notice here to move after schools out in May, we have to make some serious decisions.

I know exactly how you are feeling.

[joeprogressive]

44. keep me posted

I hear Portland, Maine is nice. Generally, I hear great things about Maine but don't know if it is too much snowfall for us.

[Catchawave]

43. Ft. Lauderdale Florida area is pretty blue

and open minded. My husband and I are retired and could live anywhere also, and Broward County is our fav area right now !

[joeprogressive]

48. Sorry but Florida is out of the equation

I've dodged enough hurricanes already. Also, the climate is not that different than Texas.

[RebelOne]

66. Glad you ruled out South Florida.

I lived in the Miami area most of my life and finally wised up and moved to North Georgia, just northwest of Atlanta. The Atlanta area is nice but also fairly right-wing.

[Why Syzygy]

73. I was in Lauderdale

a few weeks ago, and I wouldn't want to live there. I know quite a few people in Texas who USED to live in Florida. Nothing against Floridians. It does have a tropical feel.

[DoYouEverWonder]

111. Good,

North FL / Gainesville is a wonderful place to live (we voted 57% for Kerry) and we already have enough people here. Thank you.

[killerbush]

46. Joe

It seems like anywhere you go, will have problems. What you want is the perfect place where you can go, well, it doesn't exist. Don't nitpick. pick out a place and move. I used to live in New Hampshire, where the conservatives ruled, (Although their hold on NH is breaking). I moved to Ct, where more liberals live. Select a place, and head out!!!

[joeprogressive]

50. Good advice but there are certainly vast differences from one place

to another. If we have the flexibility to go anywhere, isn't it OK to heavily scruitize our choices?

[Why Syzygy]

49. Austin, Texas

I moved there last year due to the very things you mention.
There is no end to outdoor activities, with lakes, streams and springs if you want. Everyone I met who lives there says they would live no place else. There is an active DU contingent. The city's official motto is "Keep Austin Weird". And they mean it. Lots of choices for night life, music, festivals, including Eyeore's Birthday party and an annual Jerry Garcia festival. The festivals are endless. The people are laid back. They have an excellent hospital chain (Seton). I believe UT is a large part of what keeps the atmosphere progressive.

Unfortunately, for personal reasons, I have moved away temporarily. I expect to return eventually. It is the only place I've ever lived where I would consider buying a home.

What part of Texas are you in? I'm way down south (ugh!) (I'll make the best of it. But it SURE isn't Austin.)

[joeprogressive]

51. Montgomery County: Conroe/The Woodlands

The bastion of conservative politics

I agree with all your comments about Austin. I hope you can back there really soon. I worked there for several years and it is fun but still freakin hot. However, as some have suggested, I am looking for a place that doesn't exist outside my own mind. Austin might be the closest thing.

[Why Syzygy]

83. Thanks

We are further east. The area was devasted by hurricanes, though I imagine it was devastated before.

It is so conservative that some people feel free to assume the color of their skin makes them more important. I hate that part.

The most beautiful climate in which I lived was Las Vegas. I would have concerns about raising a child there. People are pretty suspicious of each other, for some reason. I was called a transient enough times to make me cry. I had lived in the same house for 8 years before moving there, and was in no way a transient. The dry climate was a real treat compared to the muggy of Texas. Literally, no sweat. No fleas, tics or roaches either. It gets hotter than blazes, but if you get into the shade, it's fine. When the sun goes down, things cool off.

I think it's great that you are taking time to think this through. I had wanted to move to SoCal for years until I found Austin. That is as close as you're gonna get in Texas. I still have family and friends in Dallas. It helped a lot to get away from the family's insane fundie circle.

I'm only sorry you're stuck in a negative environment for 2 1/2 more years.

[RagingInMiami]

52. New Mexico is cool

Santa Fe is expensive but Las Cruces is not. And it's much bluer than where you're at now and getting bluer each day.

[joeprogressive]

55. I spent a few days in Las Cruces

Overall, a nice town but there was something I didn't like that I can't put my finger on. As far as public health/medicine opportunities, it is very underserved and would be attractive from that perspective.

[Nordmadr]

53. I live in Upstate New York, which is generally conservative

but communites like New Paltz (near NYC) and Ithaca are supposed to be great.

Ithaca has great scenery, gorges, colleges, etc.

You'll definitely get the winters though. This year has been amazingly mild though overall. Nope, no global warming here.

Olafr

Link added:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ithaca%2C_New_York

[Tom Rinaldo]

57. Winters vary in upstate NY based on things like Lake effect snow

The Hudson Valley area, including New Paltz, gets much less snow than Ithaca, but Ithaca is great. New Paltz is a University town. We thought of moving there also, but it felt too crowded and it was a little more expensive than where we settled 12 miles from Woodstock.

Our area is at the fringe of New York City commuting range for people who don't have to go there every day, or who like to sleep and/or work on trains or buses. That makes it a little less conservative than other parts of upstate New York. Plus there is a big arts community in every media. Hippies and those who followed have been part of the landscape for decades. Progressive Democrats of America are organizing here and the Ulster County legislature just flipped Democratic big time this year for the first time in 30 or more years. Maurice Hinchey is our Congressman and it is hard to get more progressive than that (he represents Ithaca also).

If you head North of Albany it gets colder and snowier, and you couldn't drag me to Buffalo in the winter.

[footinmouth]

61. I live in a suburb of Buffalo, NY

I must say that our winter this year has been pretty wimpy. Very little snow (by Buffalo standards), lots of sunshine and the cold has been quite bearable. Last summer was glorious.

I live in Amherst, NY, which is at the top of the list for safe cities. Our school district (Williamsville) has been ranked at the top of the heap for western New York. Even though our taxes are quite high, I really wouldn't think of leaving this blue state.

[Tom Rinaldo]

63. Once you get past the mega snow in your region

there's much to love there. Many years ago friends of mine were part of the original collective that started a vegetarian restaurant in Buffalo, I think it was called "Greenfields". New York is safely a blue state, and that matters with social programs and safety nets.

[Nordmadr]

121. I live just outside of Syracuse, one of the snowiest areas of the

state, but find that I generally enjoy being here. The Adirondacks at your door step and Canada just 2 hours aways. If you like the outdoors, New York State has alot to offer.

Like stated before, snow fall does vary throughout the state, but this winter has been mild by just about any New Yorkers standards.

Olafr

[yellowcanine]

62. Greenbelt, Maryland. There is a Roosevelt Center, a New Deal Cafe,

and an Eleanor Roosevelt High School. You would feel right at home. Choice of three international airports. Great cooperative pre-school/kindergarten. Cooperative grocery store. Even a baby sitting coop! Lots of places for jogging/walking/biking and a state of the art fitness center with indoor/outdoor pool and affordable family memberships. Affordable housing, particularly if you want to really do the New Deal thing and buy a coop in Greenbelt Homes, Inc. Plenty of choices of hospitals/medical centers. Metro rail access to Washington, D.C. If you plan your housing and commutes a little a two earner couple can even get by with one car - or at least one good car and one beater. Winters are mostly moderate, summers can be a little beastly though.

On edit: I should mention that the summers are nowhere near as beastly as Texas. It can go mid nineties for 5 or 6 consecutive days in July with 90 percent RH but that is about the worst of it. And them occasionally we will get a cool summer with only 3 or 4 scattered 90 plus days all summer.

[joeprogressive]

65. You can really judge a small community by its community calendar

and this one's is really impressive. Thanks, I will investigate further. How are home prices? The appeal to the east coast is the close proximity to many great cities.

[yellowcanine]

71. Single family homes in Old Greenbelt are 300 - 500 thousand. Townhouses

in newer parts of Greenbelt are probably 250 - 300 thousand. Coops (small and drab but well built townhouses) are 100 - 250 thousand.

[joeprogressive]

67. I am surpised by the lack of responses from people plugging

the Pacific NW. I never really considered upstate New York but that seems to be a popular area for many here.

[Tom Rinaldo]

74. My girlfriend lived in the Pacific NW for years

And we thouught of moving there also. Yes, the rain there was a factor, but also housing was more expensive in areas we would have wanted to live in there than the part of the Catskills we moved to in New York. I am not saying I know the Pacific NW thorougly, but the places I knew there that had a political/cultural mix I would have liked were usually more expensive or more urban/suburban than I wanted. But I also had business reasons to look at the East Coast so that was a personal factor for me as well.

[joeprogressive]

76. What is the cost of living like in Catskills area?

Do they need doctors?

[Tom Rinaldo]

84. I think they can use Doctors

You have the choice of small cities like New Paltz (at the lower edge of the Catskills) or Kingston which is on the Hudson River, or small towns like Rosendale or Woodstock, or smaller villages, or simply out in the county with a post office and not much else. We live in a village. The area around us has a lot of natural protection because there is a Catskills State Recreation area plus we are part of New York City's watershed area.

I think a good GP would have little problem getting established, a good one we know of has a long waiting list for clients, and there are hospitals of course in the cities, but you should look to someone who really knows what they are talking about for a better feel regarding that, which isn't me. Our village is really scenic which is part of why we chose it, with a compact small commercial area that includes a few restaurants plus basic services, and NO FRANCHISES. We bought a nicely restored 2,000 ft plus home on a nice street with garage and 1/5th acre back yard about 4 years ago for $130,000. By all acounts you can't do that here anymore. Our house would probably sell in the neighborhood of $200,000 now. Many people live outside of the villages and get more land with their homes for the same price.

If we lived in Woodstock proper it might be double that give or take a lot depending on specific location. But other communities not far from where we live would be cheaper than the one we chose. If you head south down toward New Paltz the price goes up again. Many people like living in the Red Hook and Rheincliff areas on the East Side of the Hudson where the train lines run directly through. You have to pay more to live there though. FDR's old estate is nearby to there by the way and is a National historical site. Kingston is a mixed bag of a city, with some truly lovely old parts with great wooden houses and a quaint starting to recover old commercial area, and newer areas also. There's a bit more crime than in the more rural mountain areas ( we love the feeling of safety where we live if you can stay out of the way of drunk drivers) but not generally excessive.

[Tom Rinaldo]

86. Oh yeah, I forgot. If you like to Ski; 20 minutes away in two directions

I don't Ski so I forget to mention that part. My village is also called the white water rafting capital of the East, and this area is a destination point for a lot of hikers, some hunters and many fishers.

[npincus]

89. Woodstock, Phoenicia, surrounding towns...

pretty, mountainous... my sister's friend moved to Woodstock a long time ago and is very happy (he's a veterinarian). i used to go there on getaways for years... haven't been back in a long time.

I love New England myself.

[Tom Rinaldo]

93. Yes, Phoenicia is our home now. It's 30 mins. from Kingston hospitals

which I neglected to be clear about above. Woodstock is about 20 minutes from the Kingston Hospitals. Also about 30 mins from what we call Mall World, which is the strip with a ton of large retailers of every stripe. That's in Kingston also, so we can get to that stuff when we want it but done't have to stare at it all of the time.

And for Jai; we are still fairly purple in our corner of New York. Our local town board still has a Republican majority (though most surrounding towns don't) and we have a Republican State Senator and a Democratic State Assemblyman to go with our progressive Congressman. Bless you for fighting the good fight for us, Jai. Folks around here shipped out to Scranton PA to help Kerry/Edwards get elected in 2004.

[npincus]

94. you lucky fellow!

I didn't read your post... I used to go to Phoenicia, Woodstock and surrounding areas... I really love it. I wish I could remember the name of the motel I used to stay in between Phoenica and Woodstock... it was right off a main road (called somethinglike the "Mountain Inn- I don't remember?)... it looked sorta tacky on the outside but was nice and rustic on the inside... it has a restaurant/ bar and right on the Esopus (sp?)River. Would you know the name ?(I know, not much detail!). I also camped near Phoenica. And, it's not too far from Hunter Mountain.

I'm from NYC, live in NJ (urban, small city) but love escapes to beautiful upstate NY and New England.

[Tom Rinaldo]

95. I think it was the Mountain Inn

Right off of Route 28. I'm only becoming a local you understand, not really there yet so I can get things confused. But if I am right it was just sold and is now called the Black Bear something, but from the outside it looks the same.

Yes, the "river" is called the Esopus, but around here that's officaily a creek, though it's good enough to be called a River in Northern California where I used to live. Compared to the Hudson that it flows into though, I understand it being called a creek. There are tons of Rustic places around here, that's what I love about it, that mixed with all the cosmopolitan touches that come from being within the larger gravitational pull of New York City and the mini regional progressive influence of Woodstock. Hunter Mountain is just up Route 214 from me. The Village of Hunter is a left turn at the top of the mini valley, and Tannersville is to the right (there's a great Mexican Restaurant we go to in Tannersville all the time).

There's also a nice cultural scene in Hunter, with a non profit Arts group located there. Every summer they throw a great little Mountain Culture Arts festival with acts from around the world. They have an alternative Movie theater there also, and of course so does Woodstock. We have a local theater in Phoenicia. Lot of camping round here, tourism is a key local industry but aside from the Ski Centers, it is still mostly Mom and Pop run. We looked into moving to the Berkshires in MA also, but it seemed so much more gentrified there, and housing costs more there too. New England is really lovely, but dollar for dollar I wouldn't trade in for what we got here. Also my girl friend never lived in the East before, she's a West Coaster, but she found people in New York a little easier to get to know than New Englanders in general, which made her feel more comfortable about moving here.

Email me if you are coming up again, who knows, maybe we can meet up somewhere.

[npincus]

98. hey, that's so nice of you.

you've got me thinking... I've always wanted to go tubing on the Esopus, but I think I'll have to wait for my little one to get bigger for that!



You're right- it was the Mountain Inn! Memories...

I'll let you know at a future date when we come up. regards!

[Tom Rinaldo]

99. God, she's cute. OK, just let us know n/t

[npincus]

100. thank you!

[Critters2]

69. I love Iowa

but I have a feeling you won't even consider it. After all, it's cold. And not very exciting. Just good, carng people--the most literate people in the Union, by many studies. And lots of contact with nature, because of the small population. And I knew lots of progressives there.

I'm planning to retire to Iowa, and, if God is good, I'll get back there before that.

[joeprogressive]

72. I will have an open mind and consider it

I have heard many good things about Iowa and am glad you have found a place you love. I wish I could do the same.

[MadMaddie]

79. Hey Joeprogressive....We live in the Seattle, WA (Pacific NW)area.

I grew up in San Antonio, TX my dad is retired Air Force, my partner is from a small town in LA.

It's funny when we first moved here about 7 years ago it was one of the rainiest seasons ever... we swore we were going to get the hell out of here.....Fast forward to today and you couldn't get us to move......

The rain.....you get used to it....the spring and summers are amazing....we have two dogs and this is the most dog friendly state you will ever live in.....dog parks....it's amazing...

We have the mountains all around us....it's the greenest place you will ever see....we can go the Oregon Coast whenever we want....the cultural mix is amazing....the food...you can get anything here...

It's funny we didn't really realize how conservative our southern homes were until we moved here....

We will be buying a home hopefully this year......

It's a great place to live!!
Good luck to you and your wife...:hi:

[joeprogressive]

80. Good to hear that

From what I hear, the rain is perpetual but mostly light so the average rainfall in inches is not that different from other places. I am glad you have found somewhere you love. A Seattle/Portland trip will most likely be in the near future.

[MadMaddie]

82. Well you let us know when you guys travel this way....

We would love to show you around....

That is true...about the rain....

[slide to the left]

85. austin

or madison, wi

one of my best friends has lived in both and loved them.

[madmunchie]

87. Winona Minnesota

On the Mississippi River. The town is in the southern part of MN. The town has a small town feel to it with 2 colleges in it. The people generally seem educated fairminded and a pretty tight community. The schools seem to be tops. The taxes seem low. Mayo Clinic is 1 hr away with Rochester in between. The scenery is beautiful. There are bluffs, lakes, the river and a lot of green. Their HS is supposed to be such an excellent prep for college that kids find college easier than HS. The people seem connected and look out for each other's kids. I just cannot say enough about it. My sister lives there and I wish that I did.

[riona]

88. northampton, ma area

http://www.noho.com/

[Jai4WKC08]

92. I know this isn't the advice you're looking for, but...

Could I suggest you look for a purple area, or maybe even slightly red? We sure could use good progressive Democrats to help take back Congress in '06... and keep it afterwards.

I know it's depressing. I live in Kansas, in a semi-rural area just SE of Kansas City. Kansas politics and the status of our social policies are often one heartbreak after another. And I despise that I can get nothing from our two idiot Repub senators. But we do manage to elect a Democrat, granted a fairly moderate one but he's a good guy, from this district--it's always close, tho, so he needs us working for him. But I have a lot of Democratic friends I've met in the process, and at a whole variety of Democratic organizations. And then there's Kansas City urban area nearby, so the more progressive culture of the city is available.

Not all red states, or not all areas within red states are as bad as what you've probably had to endure down in TX.

[joeprogressive]

103. Well, we are stuck until '08 so wouldn't be able

to help anyone for the '06 elections. As far as after that, it will be time for us to become selfish and move to a purple or blue area. I have lived in red territory for too long and it is driving me insane.

[napi21]

104. Have you ever thought about somewhere near Austin?

I lived in San Antonio for 6 years, and although it has it's problems, it's pretty blue compared to the rest of TX, but Austin is supposed to be the Bluest of all. It's Not THAT far from wherever you are in So. TX, and should have most of the other things you'er looking for. Besides, I don't want to see all the Dems move out of TX! Hell, we need more to MOVE IN!

[joeprogressive]

106. Yes, Austin is in the top 10 list right now.

I mentioned earlier my pros and cons. It has most of what I want except the weather. I would rather live in a milder climate. The Texas summers have worn me down. It zaps the energy right out of you.

[napi21]

108. Hay, you don't have to tell me about that!

I've had experiences with TX weather that I never had in my life anywhere else! The one good thing though is, EVERYWHERE is air conditioned! You're car is air conditioned too. You really don't have to spend much time outside during the really awful months.

You may know better than I do, but I thought Austin had more trees and shady areas than even SA or So TX. If so, it may not be as bad as you think.

[joeprogressive]

109. Actually where I live now (Houston area) has the most trees

but Austin tends to be slightly less humid. The strange phenomenon is that when you are indoors you still feel hot no matter what the thermostat says. I guess because the humidity is indoors also. Plus, I hate the fact that I can't enjoy outdoor activities April-September. You can go for a walk outside on a beautiful sunny day in July and not see anyone outdoors period. Golf courses actually drop their rates in the summer dramatically when other parts of the country raise them.

[napi21]

113. I've never been to Houston, but the Tx locals that I worked with

ALL said "You don't ever want to go to Houston!" They called it the armpit of the world. ;o)

I know San Antonio is unbearable, at least to me, in July & August! The heat & humidity were unbelievable! But as soon as it hit Sept, it wasn't that bad. I think being near the water makes Houston much worse.

I suggest you take a short vacation, maybe even only a weekend, to Austin, and see what you think.

You have to remember, every place has positives and negatives. You just have to decide your top priorities and what negatives you can live with.

[Nimrod2005]

112. Come down to Ft Lauderdale, great weather, extremely liberal

diverse community for sure, maybe most diverse outside NY. Decent housing, beach, the everglades, the Florida Keys, Orlando/Disney short drive away, Jews, African Americans, Latinos by the millions in the area from all S. American countries, a large population of Caribbean people...Great food and restaurants, great bars, and unlimited supply of hospitals...They call it God's waiting room. My wife is in the Healthcare profession (private practice), there is unlimited supply of customers here.

Bad schools for kids, but you can always find a best school in your neighborhood, Jeb is on his way out, and if you like you can go to a private school.

Most importantly, this is a red state, we live on a blue island!!! And the state needs your votes, come'on down.

[MadHound]

120. Columbia Missouri

A growing college town, it has LOTS of hospitals. Good education, diverse population, plenty of cultural opportunities year around. And the cost of living here is modest.

Weather is distinctly divided into four seasons, with lovely spring and fall. However winters are generally mild, with the lows rarely going below zero, and the heaviest amount of snow was two feet. Most of the time it ranges in the teens and twenties for lows and thirties and forties for highs in the winter time. Summer is a bit oppressive, with highs in the ninties, and the humidity about the same. But hey, that's what AC is for.

And while we are currently labeled as a "red state", in reality we're pretty purple. The northern part of the state is pretty liberal, while the further south starts getting conservative. However it is almost a guarantee that we're going to be getting a Democratic governor, and that will probably coattail into getting a Democratic voted into the WH.

Come on up sometime, and take a look around.

[joeprogressive]

123. I have heard nothing but good things about Columbia

Amazing, how universities and progressivism go hand in hand. I have family in St. Louis so I will have to drive on over next time I am in the area.

[High Plains]

132. Rocky Mountain towns?

Santa Fe, New Mexico

Telluride, Colorado

Sedona, Arizona

Missoula, Montana

It's not too hot in the summer in the mountains, and given global warming, even the winters don't seem so bad anymore (of course, I grew up in South Dakota, so...).

The communities I listed are all fairly progressive, though they may be a bit on the New Agey side for some people, especially Sedona and Santa Fe.

Missoula is home of the University of Montana and a liberal oasis in the state.

But if you want to stay near home, Austin it is. I spent the '80s there and never intended to leave, but career took me elsewhere.

[grasswire]

135. have you considered Montana?

I used to have physician friends there. Helena is a little gem of a town with lots of amenities, Missoula is a nice university town, Bozeman is interesting, too. Yes, there's snow. But the opportunities for outdoor recreation and cultural activities are wide open. It's a beautiful state.

[joeprogressive]

138. I will now. Sounds promising. I am sure my friend from earlier will

point out that I said I was avoiding the cold. However, it wasn't an absolute rule out. The cold bothers my wife the most. My only concern is living in a place that is so cold that it excludes outdoor activities.

[greendog]

143. Western Montana doesn't get too cold...

Average high temp 30F through most of the winter. A couple "cold snaps" each year where it gets down to -20 for two or three days. The big winter negatives are cloud cover and short daylight. Missoula is pretty grey through the winter.

That said, there's plenty to do outdoors. Two National Parks. Huge wilderness areas. Wild rivers. Beautiful lakes. LOTS of wildlife. Daylight lasts till past 10 pm in the summer.

The people are friendly. More "independent" than conservative. Education is pretty good for a poor state.

4th largest State (land area). 4th smallest State (population).

[HamdenRice]

139. New York City -- how could anyone live anywhere else, really?

And it's not very expensive if you live in Brooklyn or Queens, which actually are more progressive, diverse and liveable than Manhattan.

New York, New York,
So nice they could have named you thrice.

[cantstandbush]

140. It depends. Do you want to live good or serve?

If you want to serve, there are many places where people need good medical, legal, and educational services.

[Kablooie]

141. The Los Angeles area has a lot of variety.

People don't know it but in the foothills above Los Angeles there are some pretty cool small towns.
I live next to the Angeles Crest National Forest but it's only a 10 minute drive to Pasadena, a 20 minute drive to downtown Los Angeles, and the same for Hollywood. There are a wide range of house prices also from the super rich mansions to small cottages in the local area. A little bit of everything.

Check it out.

[S B]

142. Moving

I was thinking at one time of moving to the rural south where cost of living is cheaper (I live in CA). I asked my dad if I would fit in there. He told me "don't worry kid, there are sinners everywhere".Ha! I decided not to move miles away from my family. I'd rather see my grand daughter's dance recitals than have more money to play with. I recommend you stay near family. No matter where you live, if you pursue your interests and become involved, you can find friends and people you can relate to. There is a saying "no matter where you go, there You are".

[S B]

144. The Pacific NW in CA near OR - if you must move or go nuts

We are crying for good doctors who care. Most doctors here do not accept medicaid (called Medi-Cal here) - too good for "those people". The hospital ER is shamefully negligent toward "those people" too. (I know this because of my line of work). The annual salary of a doctor here is about $270,000/yr. net, which is a little below the cost of a nice home -if you want a premier home, more. The area is mountainous, beautiful, hardly any stoplights, many outside activities - fishing, hiking, skiing. It does snow, but I have driven to work here 15 yrs. without 4WD. Gas is $2.67 a gal. but just over the border is Oregon, with no sales tax. We do our major shopping there - a 45 min. drive. Ashland, OR is a University town with the Shakespeare Festival, concerts, restaurants, etc. This is low crime cow country, Bush country, not crazy about "outsiders" - but I'm here and others who think like me are here so I have a good life. It's neither too cold, nor too hot and the schools are outstanding - kids here have high SAT's. Want to make a difference and live in a beautiful place too? Here's your opportunity.
I don't know what you would do - there aren't any jobs - so you'd have to be self-employed at something or work in Oregon.

[Lorien]

146. I'm considering Asheville, NC myself

I've traveled nearly everywhere looking for a new home (I'm self employed and single). Vancouver, Seattle, Carmel and Big Sur, San Diego, Glendale, Burlington, Portland, Toronto, Chicago, Madison Just about every major town on the east coast, and many in England, Scotland, and Wales (which I love, but moving would be a huge expense). Two years ago I went to Asheville and fell in love. The climate isn't severe like that of Vermont or Wisconsin, the people are far friendlier than they are in Seattle, and most of those I met were extremely progressive and seemed very well educated (I've never seen so many Kucinich bumper stickers outside of the Cleveland area). I was born and raised in Columbus, Ohio when it was VERY progressive-I even went to a private school that, when looking back at it, seems like some sort of hippie commune stereotype (sitting on the ground singing kumbiya with your long haired teacher who wears a dashiki shirt and love beads), so my ideas of a "progressive" area are somewhat more extreme than the current standards. Some of the ads for local colleges in Asheville looked like they were right out of the "Utne reader", so that's encouraging, and there's a farmer's market on the weekends.The town is not so small that it's without culture,either, and it has a HUGE array of art galleries I know they are short on nurses and other health practitioners there, too.It's less expensive than Northern CA BUT has stunning mountains and rivers. Well worth a look, imho.

[mrgorth]

149. Try this

http://www.findyourspot.com/

Good site.

[Hekate]

152. Look for a community with the following: a college, a...

Seriously, years ago my husband and I were thinking of leaving our own area because he was a consultant at the time. I kept saying sure, and he finally asked me how I would be able to fit into a new place, or what I would look for if choosing a new place. Right off the top of my head I said:

A college
Unitarian-Universalist church (we raised our kids UU)
Reform Jewish congregation (he's Jewish, tho not observant)
Buddhist sangha or meditation group (he's Buddhist)
Democratic club

Think about it. You wouldn't even have to join or attend any of these groups, but the fact that they existed in the community would mean a certain level of diversity, education, and open-mindedness.

You can add your own ideas to this list, but that's where I started. Some of your research can start with as simple a source as the Yellow Pages.

We ended up staying where we are on California's Central Coast. I'm sorry I can't really recommend moving here because the cost of housing has risen beyond all reason and young people are leaving. But we have a major university, a community college, a religious college, a couple of separate graduate institutes... This is the liberal end of the county, though. Forty or fifty miles inland and politics is distinctly conservative.

But if we ever do decide to move away -- aside from climate and cost of living, I know what else I'll be researching.

Hekate

[joeprogressive]

154. excellent practical advice, thanks

n/t

[rfkrfk]

153. find a place with lots of sick people

if your thing is trauma,
consider South Africa

[Renew Deal]

155. Check out this website

If not for entertainment purposes only.

www.findmyspot.com