open season on women at abortion clinics

[donsu]

http://www.buzzflash.com/mailbag/06/03/mai06070.html


-snip-
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Jury convicts animal welfare activists of using a Web site to incite threats, harassment and vandalism against a company that tests drugs and household products on animals. 3/4
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… meanwhile other terrorists are off the hook because it’s now open season on women at abortion clinics.

Rosamond

-snip-
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are you men happy now?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. the men who are here

are as unhappy about this as the women are, I think. I know my husband is.

[donsu]

2. many, many more people read DU then post

when I say 'you men' I mean all the men in america. if they were out fighting for us I seemed to have missed it. (yes, of course I know some men fight for us. I've posted some of their articles here at DU)

[MuseRider]

4. I had that discussion

just this morning with my husband. He will sit here and smack his forehead when I tell him about this stuff but when I ask him what he is going to do about it he responds that it is my fight, he personally thinks it is wrong but what do I want him to do about it?

It puzzled him when I asked him what in the hell he expected those of us with the least amount of power to do about it. I followed with the fact that I think it is imperative for men who are on our side to try to rein in those wacko men who are doing this and he responded that it was just too much work to worry about it.

I am not a happy camper this afternoon. No group of people out of power who are being culled out for discrimination have ever been able to make headway without the help of people who are not of that group. Let's go men, what are you going to do about your brothers? We already know what they think of us and it is not going to open them up to hear our side.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

9. Ever read "Lysistrata"?

Just a thought.

When we were working to get Roe v. Wade up to the Supreme Court, there were a lot of men (not much more than boys, but, then, we were not much more than girls ourselves) who worked with us. Perhaps they're just grown complacent or perhaps looking in other places might find them.

In any event, I've always loved the message of Lysistrata.

[MuseRider]

11. As a matter of fact

he has learned of it as well! ;)

[OldLeftieLawyer]

13. Ahhhhhhhhh

:toast:

[RazzleDazzle]

14. Amen, Muse -- please see my own post

echoing some of what you said. Absolutely spot on. I am beside myself with grief and horror at the realization of exactly what you describe: it's simply not personal to (most of) them, even (to most of) the most well-meaning of them.

We're going to have to find ways to MAKE it personal to them and one way we don't have a LOT of control over and is grisly (but IMO at this polint inevitable), and the other is maybe less fun but real damn effective.

[RazzleDazzle]

12. I am QUITE sure you are wrong

SOME men here at DU are with us; some are against us.

Some APPEAR to be with us but have no real interest in the abortion issue OTHER THAN how it may affect them. After all, if they impregnate someone, and abortion isn't readily available, they're going to be on the hook in a way they haven't had to face for a while (decades now).

I had the horrible, horrible realization last night as I was contemplating the non-response to this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2497191

that men at DU don't get it about sexism (actually, no news on that score), don't CARE to get it about sexism and don't get it that there's any connection whatseover between sexism and the loss of their abortion rights.

SEXISM -- any and ALL sexism -- IS PRECISELY WHAT HAS CAUSED THE ANTI-ABORTION DRIVE TO GET THIS FAR. When any male is engaging in sexist behavior -- and it happens all the fucking time here -- you are aiding the anti-abortion crowd. You are actively helping!

And that goes for women too, maybe even double. I continually see women here at DU use words like "bitch" and "whore" to apply to women, usually rightwing women. IT ALL MATTERS and it all hurts. If you are upset about the 11 state -- ELEVEN! states ( http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x591015#595427 ) -- which are busy trying to pass laws outlawing abortion (one of which already has, South Dakota), then watch your own damn mouth and get a clue that what you say which is ANY anti-woman sentiments and words and actions harms ALL women.

What is "anti-woman" talk? Any criticism of ANY woman (yes, even women we otherwise despise for their politics) which goes to their femalesness or things which are typically about being female (appearance, reproduction and sexuality or sexual practices), INSTEAD OF the things about them we despise, like their politics.

Get it? I've said this so many times before: no one here would ALLOW the criticism of Clarence Thomas based on his Negro-ness. IOW, we don't get upset with him but start complaining about his race or blackness or calling him the N-word. We don't resort to criticizing Alberto Gonzalez on the basis of his Latino-ness, calling him a wetback or spic when we're justifiably upset with something he does or says. Those are racist, and everyone understands that.

SO CRITICIZING or DEMENANING WOMEN WE DON'T LIKE ON THE BASIS OF THEIR FEMALESNESS, their gender, their sexuality and reproductive life, their appearance, etc. IS SEXIST. And it's wrong. AND it hurts every single one of us. (Those women who DON'T think they're being hurt by it, and especially those women who participate in it are supporting the patriarchy, the dominant paradigm of oppression of women AND blacks and Latinos and GLBT anmd the elderly and sick and disabled and political dissenters, etc., etc., etc.)

Calling any rightwing woman a bitch or whore or other sexist slur is every bit as sexist as calling Clarence Thomas or Armstrong Jones the N-word is racist. The N-word is worse PRIMARILY (and maybe only) BECAUSE we've been so sensitized to it as a word of racial oppression. Bitch is no less a word of sexual oppression. If there's ANY difference, it's degree not kind.

The men here absolutely don't get it -- and don't want to -- that sexism --> end of abortion. Oh, they think they do. They in fact can TALK like they do. But at the bottom of their hearts what is missing is the visceral connection with the subject that most of us women have. Mabye most people think that's normal, okay, and to be expected that men don't have that visceral connection. But I know in my heart that UNTIL ENOUGH MEN GET IT AT THAT LEVEL, we will forever be at the mercy of those who would oppress us, and those who would oppress us are aided and abetted by our well-spoken mates and brothers who are happy to give us lip service but don't have the time or stomach for anything more.

In the meantime, the rollbacks are accelerating, aren't they?

The men of DU have just about made me into someone who supports the end of Roe v. Wade. Yes, that will mean women -- my sisters -- will die. I know that. Women are already dying of sexism, dying for the sole reason that they are women. But where abortion is concerned, all women except those who are raped have one very, very valuable tool for avoiding abortion: The word NO!

And before anyone chides me on the fact that women are entitled to a good sex life too, I would say: oh, yes, indeed, we are: Sex for one works very, very well, with the added benefit of less mess (literally and figuratively).

Maybe between generating some martyrs to the cause and a little enforced abstinence in a few choice (or no-choice) places, we can get their attention. Ya think? It's a gamble -- they're pretty fucking hard headed.

[MuseRider]

15. Holy shit that is well said!

Thank you.

[rman]

19. I'm sure most men on DU support "the right to choose"

Many may not be very concerned about it, but they do prefer women to have the law on their side in this matter.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

3. That's quite off the mark

More men support a woman's right to choose than don't, and I think your last line really would do well to be edited out. This isn't something that "you men" did.

There's nothing to be accomplished with a blanket - and erroneous - condemnation like that.

[donsu]

6. if the men didn't do it, who did?

nt

[OldLeftieLawyer]

8. What men are you talking about?

This is a matter that's been going on for many years.

So, what men are you talking about?

Guys like Phyllis Schlafly?

Your point is so badly-drawn, it's best left right here.

I wish you luck and understanding and peace.

[Jacobin]

16. Women are really at fault for having children that turn out to be

men who treat women this way.

:hi:

Lighten the fuck up.

[RazzleDazzle]

17. Oh, yeah,

like there's no such thing as acculturation; like the media doesn't exist and indoctrinate all of us daily; like women are capable of enforcing anything like a total vacuum in which they can raise their children to be perfect little creatures unaffected by the rest of a sick society; like FATHERS don't have any influence; like women THEMSELVES are untainted and undamanged enough to pull it off even if all the rest of it could be in place.

I, for one, don't WANT to lighten the fuck up, and that is precisely the kind of minimizing, dismissive shit talk that men always put out there to deflrct blame and responsibility from themselves.

So what I want, is for YOU to get serious about supporting women and ridding the world of all oppression. YOU and your brothers are the only ones who can make the real difference.

[rman]

18. why "the" men?

do you really think all men are the same?

[Tom Rinaldo]

5. Anyone know a good button maker?

"Here Come the Hangers", with a picture of a black wire coat hanger in the field. I'm a man who would wear that button. For those who know what it means already, it is a powerful statement. For those who don't, let them ask what it means and the discussion is engaged.

[MuseRider]

7. Thank you.

To all men who will actively work to support our rights I say a great big thank you. We must have your support and that means a lot more than simply feeling bad about it. Thank you.

[GoneOffShore]

20. Here's a link or two

http://www.affordablebuttons.com/index2.php

http://www.buttonsonline.com/political/

http://kalsey.com/tools/buttonmaker/

If you need code for making buttons

I used a guy in Missouri for my No Bush buttons. Can't find the link.

The coat hanger button is a great idea. If you put them together, PM me with the link, and I might get some made here in Philly. Sell them and donate the proceeds to Planned Parenthood and Naral.

[rinsd]

10. Rosalind needs to catch up....

The recent Supremes ruling had nothing to do with the bumper zones around but the use of RICO statues to sue in civil court when there was not a finnacial component.

DUers went apeshit when the ruling was misunderstood by threads claiming that the bumper zones had been lifted. There was much gnashing of the teeth and "I told ya so's" by those calling for the fillibuster of Alito. Of course the decision was unaminous.

"Jury convicts animal welfare activists of using a Web site to incite threats, harassment and vandalism against a company that tests drugs and household products on animals. 3/4"

Does she feel sad for these people? Maybe she would realize that the precendent for this was going after the nuttier anti-abortion websites. She should also realize that if the Supremes had upheld the RICO lawsuit iniaited by now, those companies doing animal testing could sue these people and groups.

The issue of South Dakota legislation seems to be a different issue than the one she is addressing.

On edit: I just wanted to add I hope those people get the max. That shit has no place in a civil society.

[AlienGirl]

21. Locking

From Da Rules:

4. Content: Do not post messages that are inflammatory, extreme, divisive, incoherent, or otherwise inappropriate. Do not engage in anti-social, disruptive, or trolling behavior. Do not post broad-brush, bigoted statements.

Besides, some of my best friends are men...