MATTHEWS : If abortion illegal, should women go to prison?

[yurbud]

This is old but relevant given the recent South Dakota law banning abortion.

Toomey was a right winger running for Arlen Specter's seat. Chris Matthews asked him what should be done with women who get abortions if it's illegal.

Funny how the guy doesn't want to give the answer the hard right is dying to hear. If you don't know what it is, read THE HANDMAID'S TALE.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4778807

'Hardball with Chris Matthews' for April 16
Read the complete transcript to Friday's show

Updated: 10:12 a.m. ET April 19, 2004

MATTHEWS: If abortion is wrong and it‘s a crime and it‘s murder, tell me what the punishment should be.

TOOMEY: And I‘m telling you that there should be legal action taken against the doctor who performs it.

MATTHEWS: And?

TOOMEY: And we‘ve got to think through what we would do with regard to the woman.

MATTHEWS: What would you like to do?

TOOMEY: But, Chris, that doesn‘t change the fact

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: You are running for the United States Senate.

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: And you‘ve said we ought to get rid of Roe v. Wade and you said that abortion should be banned in Pennsylvania, but you won‘t tell me what the penalty should be.

TOOMEY:

That‘s right, Chris.

Look, we can take things one step at a time. I think that the constitutional decision was invalid. It‘s perfectly OK to believe that these justices made up a right that doesn‘t exist in the Constitution without deciding exactly what the penalty should be under all circumstances.

(CROSSTALK)

MATTHEWS: You want to make up a law without a penalty. It‘s a crime without a penalty. I‘ve never heard of such a thing.

[Catch22Dem]

1. Good job Chris

Credit where credit is due.

[niyad]

2. chris matthews IS a crime without a penalty!!

[napi21]

3. Chris asks that same question of all the fundies, but I haven't heard

a single one of them answer it yet! I guess they know better than to say what they're thinking. If they say they want to put all the women in jail along with the Drs, they'd loose their argument instantly, and they know it!

[Inland]

9. The first time I heard that question, it was to Bush I

He actually had no idea what to say. He TOOK A DAY to release a statement that only the doctors would be punished. Yeah, they knew way back then that jailing women for abortions would strike people as, well, wrong. So they decide to jail doctors because you gotta pretend someone is doing something worthy of jail or give up on the entire insistence that abortion is a problem.

[The_Casual_Observer]

4. The assumption is that if they pass a law, nobody will break it.

[yurbud]

12. like Prohibition

[liberalhistorian]

5. Such idiotic blather

always makes me want to jump up and down and scream WHAT ABOUT THE MEN? WHAT ABOUT THE FATHERS? Jesus, these idiots surely can't be dumb enough to think that women get knocked up on their own! Or can they? Sometimes I wonder. What about the MAN who was involved in the conception of the pregnancy?

If women, God forbid, are to be penalized if they have abortions (and many will be if it's illegal, because they will die or suffer horribly at the hands of butchers, unless they're rich, of course), WHAT ABOUT THE FATHERS? WHAT ABOUT THE MEN? Goddamn, that makes me so angry I can hardly see straight.

And as a woman who dealt with a suprise, unplanned pregnancy, I know just exactly how much of a man's world this really is when it comes to this situation.

[Jamnt]

7. What about the men?

All's they have to do is say they didn't want the women to get an abortion (even if it is a lie). That gets them off the hook.

[yurbud]

13. that has a certain witch trial quality, doesn't it?

It was the girl! She wanted to kill the baby! I wanted to KEEP it!

[tularetom]

6. The only Tweety post I want to see

"MSNBC talk host drools into mike, causes short, show canceled".

[yurbud]

14. I never even watch his show--saw this on a blog and went to transcript

[Inland]

8. The penalty will always screw them up.

You can't have a crime without a criminal, a murder without a murderer. But few are so nutty to want to put a woman in jail. It doesn't compute. Either aboriton is a "crime" like adultery, just something on the books to show those sexually incontinent women, or it's a crime like murder, in which case you've got to punish the woman too.

And the politico, of course, thinks that now is NOT the time to wonder about these little inconsistencies. First we ban it, then we figure out what was really so wrong with it, and then somebody gets a surprise after five or six election cycles, in that it's either punished as a murder or not enforced at all.

[Eileen]

10. Law Professor's Blog concerning SD sentencing intentions.

- Law Prof Doug Berman - on South Dakota sentencing laws and the new abortion ban.

Then more the "illegal abortion sentencing" question is looked at the more obvious the hypocrisy of the Pro Involuntary Gestators (or PIGs for short) becomes. If they really believed what they say they would destroy their movement by demonstratinging the courage of their convictions.

"What should the sentence be" will stop them in their tracks every time.


- Eileen`s always in process page -


Eileen

[Inland]

11. Thanks!

I read some, saving the rest for later!

[Inland]

22. What do you think of my idea in this thread?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=614026&mesg_id=614026

[terrible beauty]

15. Question

All candidates who are anti choice should be asked this Question politely of course and their answers published widely .

1 Sir or Madam How long should a woman serve in the penitentiary
for seeking or having an abortion.

2 As you believe abortion is the taking of human life and performing an abortion is premeditated Should all persons found guilty of performing an abortion be sentenced to death.

It is time we held their feet to the fire and follow through with the consequences of their action .
It Is Time To Make Them Answer

[The Magistrate]

16. That Is The Proper Course, Sir

Questions to which there are no good answers are rum fun....

[Disturbed]

17. Is it logical to only punish the Doctors?

The women are involved with that decision. Following logic they would have to be arrested.What about the Nurse? Isn't he Nurse an accomlice? In fact everyone that works at the Clinic are complicit aren't they? Logicaly, all of them would have to be arrested and charged with something.

[leftyladyfrommo]

19. Women would have to be arrested. What else could you do

if abortion becomes a crime. It would be murder. (by their definition)

[The Magistrate]

29. No, Sir, It Is Not

Not, at least, if one hews to the view that the doing is a murder, or at the very least an unlawful killing of a person. Anyone who holds to that view must, if they are honest, regard the woman in such an instance in precisely the same light that a person who hires another to carry out a killing for them is regarded. Such a person is always held equally liable with the hired agent for the crime, and further, the hiring of such an agent is in itself a seperate crime, for which a person can be convicted even if the agent never carries out the crime. Nor, if those who hold that view are to be considered honest, can they demand any less a penalty for the act than the penalties imposed for unlawful killing of a person with some degree of premeditation....

[Inland]

18. Right! nt

[Proud Liberal Dem]

23. Pre-Roe V. Wade?

WHAT happened to women BEFORE Roe V. Wade was decided? I know that women have always gotten abortions regardless of what the law was but I NEVER heard about any women (pre-Roe V. Wade) actually getting arrested for obtaining an abortion. I'm fairly certain that some doctors ended up getting arrested as a result of PERFORMING an abortion in states where abortion was previously banned but what about the women? This is an excellent question that those promoting a ban on abortions(or at least overturning Roe V. Wade which would almost certainly guarantee a ban in several states) NEED to answer. If they truly believe that abortion is MURDER, then they either need to go on record as saying that women illegally obtaining abortions should be arrested and charged for MURDER along with the doctors performing them or somehow explain why women should not be held equally responsible for an act that they consider (and the law in several states might soon consider) to be MURDER. Chances are that a REAL discussion of this issue may lead anti-abortion advocates down a road that they may not want to follow to its logical conclusion. Although I'm not happy about the SD abortion ban, it seems as though the issue is out in the open in a way that it has never really been before and we are finally able to have a REAL honest debate about abortion in this country. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out.
:popcorn:

[leftyladyfrommo]

24. They went after the doctors.

And the back alley practintioners who weren't even doctors. Those were the guys with clothes hangers and knitting needles.

I can't believe we are really back to this! These people just don't remember how awful it was. All the women who were killed or simply maimed for life.

[Inland]

26. I can't find what somebody posted on pre Roe practice

It was good, and I think the upshot was that abortion was more of a tool to control sexuality, so the entire "murder" rationale wasn't an issue. The fact is that the anti abortion people don't want to follow anything down to it's logical conclusion, because they know the logical conclusion of "abortion is murder" is going to be unpopular as hell, and the logical conclusion of "abortion isn't murder" is going to be, well, choice.

[truthisfreedom]

20. that's simple! send all pregnant women to prison!

be done with it.

[Freddie Stubbs]

21. Typical Tweety

[Norquist Nemesis]

25. I don't see how they can't charge the woman (and others involved)

with a crime. Doctors don't force abortions on women. But once the abortion is put in the hands of the Government vs. the individual, the Government may change its mind and decide doctors MUST force abortions.

[tinfoilinfor2005]

27. Any man who impregnates a woman he is not married to

immediately goes to jail for ten years because he has put that woman in a situation where abortion/murder might be considered. Let's make that part of the law. Or better yet, any man who impregnates a woman he is not married to must immediately undergo castration.

How quickly do you think the SCOTUS would pass this law, given that all but one are male?

[sarahlee]

28. Building the Foundation for the Underground Railroad

In case we need to help women get to a place where abortions are still legal.

http://roedepot.com/index.php

If you have not signed the Planned Parenthood petiton, please do so now.
http://www.ppaction.org/campaign/roberts_roeCall

[Mad_Dem_X]

30. How would they know?

If a woman with an unwanted pregnancy doesn't go to a doctor, and instead attempts to make herself miscarry, how would the lawmakers know? If there were no witnesses, if no one knew she was pregnant in the first place, how would they know to come arrest her? What proof would they have?

That kind of thinking is just insane...you can't watch everyone else 24/7. :crazy:

[RedstDem]

31. Wait For Some Lady To Hold A Doctor At Gunpoint

& Force Him To Preform An Abortion....
What Now ?!

[yurbud]

32. Watch or read THE HANDMAID'S TALE--it even got how cons got in power

right--by machine gunning congress and blaming terrorists.