ABORTION - the Great Divide - hits Neil Lisst cartoon

[Neil Lisst]

This is self-explanatory today:

[Neil Lisst]

1. I'm Mad Dog, by the way ...

so you know where I'm coming from

I write for the left.

[silverojo]

2. Mad Dad's so full of shit, I can smell him from here

I'd like to see HIM carry a rape-generated fetus to term, then see how anti-abortion he is.

Wanker.

[Neil Lisst]

3. he's a decent guy, but he's very much against abortion

I imagine he will read this thread, however, tomorrow, so feel free to address yourself to him.

[ProudDad]

4. If mad dad doesn't want an abortion

he doesn't f*ckin' have to have one.

Hey Mad Dad, get your f*ckin' religion out of our god damn lives!!!!

'Cause what any woman does with HER body is none of your f*ckin' business, mad dad...

[Neil Lisst]

5. I want to acknowledge your post and thank you for it

but we'll have to wait until tomorrow to see if Mad Dad will respond.

I think your point is a good one. Just because a person has a belief it doesn't mean they must believe the law should track their beliefs.

[Nutmegger]

6. OMG - thanks Neil!

:hug::pals::grouphug::bounce::loveya:

[Neil Lisst]

7. we really split on this one, as you can imagine

I consider it one of life's many moral decisions, and one which those who find themselves in it must face. I don't find it to be a place society has an interest in intervening.

In fact, to the contrary, I think society should butt out until the time when a fetus is clearly viable outside the womb.

[girl gone mad]

8. "Liife is God-given and sacred"

God certainly didn't have a problem killing people, even so far as committing genocide via a flood. Also, God performed an abortion in the Bible.

[Greyhound]

9. Hate to pile on but that is the difference between the sides.

pro-choice leaves it up to you, anti-choice imposes a religious belief on everybody. Plus, aren't you both guys? As a guy I really think our opinions are just that.

[Neil Lisst]

11. yes, we're both guys, and we're both fathers

and I take fatherhood just as seriously, I simply don't think every conceived fetus is best delivered into this world.

[cali]

10. Thanks, Neil

I appreciate what you've done here.

Dear Mad Dad, I respect your right to form your own opinion on this, but I'd like to pose a couple of questions: Do you honestly view a zygote as a human life, equal in all ways to a living person? Or equal to a 7 month fetus, for that matter? Isn't fetal life a continuum? I don't have a problem with states regulating abortion after the point of viability, but you do realize, I'm sure that 90% of abortion in this country are first term abortions. If your wife was pregnant, and the two of you found out that she was carrying a fetus with anencephaly, no forebrain, no cerebellum, no cranium, no chance of survival after birth? Should the two of you have the legal right to abort the fetus, whatever stage of pregnancy she's in? How about the morning after pill, which in some cases prevents a fertilized egg from attaching? Is that abortion?

[Neil Lisst]

14. hey, cali. We felt this was the best way to address this.

There are a half dozen people in my life who are important to me, and yet they agree with "Mad Dad" on this very issue.

I don't think all life is god given.

[lukasahero]

12. "No matter what... horrific acts..."

occur to a woman, the potential child she may be carrying matters more than she does. Got it. Glad to know where we rate on that.

BTW - Mad Dad, you've "witnessed" your wife's pregnancies and thought them a wonderful thing. I wonder how you would feel "witnessing" your wife's rape. I can't imagine you would still think it a wonderful thing.

[Coexist]

13. Question for Mad Dad

when is it okay to have an abortion?

If the pregnancy is tubal, is it okay?
If the woman has uterine cancer, is it okay?
If the fetus is sever ly malformed and will die a painful death within a few days of birth, is it okay?
If it is so horrific as so be unimaginable, how can you do it to save the mother's life or spare the fetus/baby pain?

[mrgorth]

15. I'd get along well with you and mad dad Neil

I agree with you but I would slide it back to the first 10 weeks (give or take) of the pregancy. Sorry all but if you tell me that what is in the womb past the first trimester isn't a life you're either stupid or lying and you're ignoring science.

[Neil Lisst]

16. I'd be ok with 5 months instead of 6 as the dividing point

To me, the decision is based primarily on the ability of the fetus to live outside the womb.

I would prefer the decision be made in the first 3 months, but I think 5 months is a good compromise given today's technologies.

It's a societal problem, and because of the great diversity of opinions, compromise will have to exist.

[cookiebird]

17. Decision-Making

perhaps should be an issue in this debate. How should an abortion decision be made? Convenience? Woman's control of her body? State's Rights to regulate medical procedures? Opinions of 3rd parties, such as pharmacists? Opinions of politicians playing to their base ? Danger to the woman's health--and how that is defined? I've not seen that discussion. Abortion will not be regulated into oblivion--it will continue to exist. In the cases of rape or incest, is the perp going to have parental rights & visitation?? That hasn't been addressed, either. There are legal statutes that speak to such matters.

[Neil Lisst]

18. I prefer the approach that puts the person most affected in charge

That is the pregnant woman or girl.

In my opinion, no one should have the right to make her carry that child if she doesn't want to.

[mrgorth]

19. I disagree

but I'm using a different standard. My ex does ultrasounds. We had videotape everyday that my boys were in utero. I asked her her opinion once and she told me 8 weeks. By 8 weeks enough things have formed that you can't not call it life. So with 10-12 weeks I'm being generous. So I'm noones friend. I get called pro-life by the pro-choicers and pro-choice by the lifers. Oh well.

[Scout]

24. so it's alive, so what?

it's still not equal to a full-fledged PERSON, the woman/girl in whose uterus it feeds.

[Neil Lisst]

26. that's the reason I use the standard of live outside the womb

I know it's life from the instant it's fertilized. It's the rights we grant that life which matters.

[wicket]

20. Hey Mad Dad!

I have a condition that makes it very likely that will experience a tubal pregnancy should I ever get pregnant- am I supposed to accept this death sentence???

Hands OFF my uterus!!!! :grr:

[Neil Lisst]

21. I don't know if "Mad Dad" will respond, so I'll say this

He's not a person who is going to openly push his viewpoint on this. He sees this as simply his personal choice not to participate in a cartoon that appears to support abortion when he considers abortion the taking of a life, however it is conceived, whatever the other issues involved.

Obviously, I disagree.

I think life is a miracle, but we make choices every day about who will live and who will die. I don't think God plays a role in the creation of either a human being or the ebola virus.

[Neil Lisst]

22. afternoon kick

[Scout]

23. Mad Dad sounds like a jerk...

"MY" wife's pregnancies

"MY" children....

well, wifey is just a little vessel for your seed, huh?

:puke:

[Neil Lisst]

25. he's really more like a Jimmy Carter type

And like Jimmy Carter, he opposes abortion for the reasons he stated.

[MissMarple]

27. Viability is a sticking point, but a decision should be based on a process

not a draconian law. There are many factors to consider, and an informed decision should be left up the the most interested parties. And THE most interested party is the woman. If folks are really against abortion they will support legislation and social and economic policies that decrease it. This South Dakota nonsense is offensive and ignorant. Those legislators are not really against abortion, they consistently promote and make political hay from legislation that leads directly to an increased need for abortions.

If you want to make a cartoon about South Dakota, focus on them. They are the evil perpetrators of human misery.

[Neil Lisst]

28. I'll pass this along.

He's not the type to engage in message board discussions like this.

He has read your comments and mine, and liked this comment I made about him regarding this issue:

He's not a person who is going to openly push his viewpoint on this. He sees this as simply his personal choice not to participate in a cartoon that appears to support abortion when he considers abortion the taking of a life, however it is conceived, whatever the other issues involved.

[MissMarple]

29. He sounds like a good guy, quite honorable.

We can't ask for more than that. Thanks for the discussion you generated :)

[Neil Lisst]

30. we almost came to blows over it, metaphorically speaking!

grrrrrrrrr

I don't like being stymied!