What's with Democrats trashing Kos and other blogs?

[quaoar]

Seems like the circular firing squad has formed once again.

I was at TPM and clicked on the link to one of his "approved sites," Bull Moose. A post there had this to say:

http://bullmooseblogger.blogspot.com/2006/03/bytes-and-bite.html

The Moose reiterates that Democrats should just simply ignore the bloggers.

Congressman Cuellar's primary victory in the Great State of Texas is just another example of the fact that there are more bytes than bite in the blogosphere. One could say that the bloggers crashed at the gates and now they must move on. Yes, you can raise money on the internet, but not necessarily votes. At the end of the day, Democrats should be spending far more time at mega-churches and at exurban malls than in the blogosphere.

In fact, if Democratic leaders want to be in touch with the voters they need they would be better served viewing re-runs of King of the Hill than reading most blogs.

< snip >

The blogosphere is fun, entertaining and informative, but not all that politically significant.

One more example: Last week I was listening to Lynn Samuels' supposed liberal talk show on Sirius Left and she started trashing the "humiliating" sales figures for "Crashing the Gate," using figures she found at Drudge.

I guess some people would rather be snipers.

[MrBenchley]

1. So you started a thread to bash a blog for bashing a blog

[quaoar]

2. I'm bashing the circular firing squad

[HardWorkingDem]

3. Personal grudges.....and more....

It looks like to me that from the examples you put forth, that the people complaining are those that have grudges against the internet blogs for a variety of reasons.

What I can't forgive of the majority of the Dems is their refusal to acknowledge the now importance of the credible blogs and what they can bring to the Dem Party. Here we have a HUGE fact checker area that is quicker than almost real time and they want to play ignorant.

The one thing that continues to stun me about places like DailyKos, CrooksandLiars and other places like them, is their continued accuracy and timeliness. I keep telling my father that the strangest thing about getting news off the internet and sites like these is that many times they are a week in advance of the electronic media and paper media and the breaking big stories will follow after being reported on the internet.

[madfloridian]

4. First of all....

Bull Moose is one of the DLC bloggers. He is linked from their site. He of course was for Cuellar.

Secondly, the Drudge stuff about Markos' book is a big lie. Kos took care of that in a post the other day.

So Marshall Wittmann, Bull Moose, is a former Christian Coalition lobbyist turned Independent who blogs for the DLC. And I never listen to Lynn Samuels, but I know she was dead wrong on those Kos figures and should apologize.

[quaoar]

7. It seems to be more idiots than just BullMoose and Samuels

Or so I gathered after reading this diary at Kos:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/3/12/74321/9972

[Pirate Smile]

13. She should have known better then to buy the crap Drudge was shilling.

Kos had a post on it. You would think she would have checked to see if there was a response on his website regarding it.

All Dems should know to double check any of the crap the media or RW'ers put out as fact. How many times do they have to be shown to be lying, misinformed, confused and just wrong before people will figure that out?

All Dems need to stop being so willing to quickly jump to the worst conclusions about each other.

That is the frustrating part.

Kos' response for those that missed it.

Drudge, moron

by kos
Thu Mar 09, 2006 at 09:08:40 AM PDT
Drudge, in his infinite idiocy, posted the following:



BOOK SALES SOS: CARVILLE/BEGALA BOOK BUST, 'TAKE IT BACK' SELLS 17,734 COPIES SINCE JAN. RELEASE, ACCORDING TO NIELSEN'S BOOKSCAN; WONKETTE ANA MARIE COX 'DOG DAYS' 5,383 COPIES SOLD... DAILY KOS 'CRASHING THE GATE' ONLY 253 COPIES PURCHASED, NIELSEN CLAIMS...



Now, I can't speak to Carville/Begala or Wonkette. But CTG pre-sold 5,100 copies, and the book hasn't been officially released. Heck, you still can't get it in book stores. The official publication date is March 27. Drudge's numbers are probably based on the few books Amazon shipped last week when it first got its hands on the book.

So let's see Drudge update this list in a month, after the book is actually released and is widely available.

For the record, Chelsea Green did a first printing of 40,000. The demand from booksellers has been so strong, and our promotional schedule so hot (I'm telling you, you'll get sick of hearing and seeing me), that they've had to a rush second printing of 20,000.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/3/9/11840/77043

[Aaaargh]

22. Isn't it interesting that a DLC spokesman ID's himself as a GOP spinoff?

The Bull Moose Party, or course, was Theodore Roosevelt's reorganization of his Republican supporters in his run for president in 1912 against incumbent William Howard Taft.

Here's some fun items from a buttlicking puff-piece in the Washington Post last January about 'Bull Moose' Republican DLC spokesman Marshall Wittmann:

"...Wittmann is an activist. He came up the hard way. He's been a Trotskyite, a union organizer, a lobbyist, a government bureaucrat, a think tank cogitator, an aide to Sen. John McCain and -- despite the fact that he's Jewish -- the official spokesman for the Christian Coalition."

-snip-

"He's sitting in his office at the Democratic Leadership Council, a centrist Democratic group that is the latest of his myriad employers. There are no pictures on the walls, but the bookshelf holds a plush toy of Wittmann's favorite dead politician, Teddy Roosevelt, wearing a campaign button for Wittmann's favorite live politician, John McCain."

-snip-

"In 1988, Marshall Wittmann founded "Jews for George" and sure enough George H.W. Bush was elected president.

In 1989, Wittmann was rewarded with a job as deputy assistant secretary of Health and Human Services. The ex-Trotskyite neocon was now a government official, learning valuable lessons on how to survive in the bureaucracy..."

-snip-

"In the fall of 2004, Wittmann quit the Republican Party, changed his registration to Independent, endorsed Kerry for president and took a job at the Democratic Leadership Council."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/03/AR2006010301870_pf.html

Before landing with the (you'll pardon the expression) 'Democratic' Leadership Council, Wittmann worked not only for the Christian Coalition, but for two rightwing thinktanks, Heritage Foundation and the Hudson Foundation, and in a major position with neocon stooge John McCain's 2000 presidential campaign. Unlike former Republicans who've become liberal Democrats, like Arianna Huffington and David Brock, Wittmann has NOT, I repeat, NOT altered his views from his Republican days, when he worked for a self-proclaimed "Reagan Republican" presidential candidate.

One hell of a spokesman for a so-called 'DEMOCRATIC PARTY' advocacy group, wouldn't you guys say?

But then, perhaps it's entirely appropriate that we consider the DLC to be, like the old Bull Moose Party which Wittmann has borrowed the name of, a Republican Party spinoff.

[Cassandra]

5. Another DLCer hoping that the netroots will go away.

I really like Josh Marshall; he's doing great work on his site, but some of his DLC friends make me :puke:
Notice that there is no place on that site for comments.

[bananas]

6. Bullshit Moose says we should ignore him because he is a blogger

yeah that guy makes a lot of sense.
That blog is paid for by the DLC
Click on his "About the Bull Moose" link and it goes nowhere,
but archive.org has a copy:

http://web.archive.org/web/20050317035235/http://www.bullmooseblog.com/2004/10/about-bull-moose.html

Thursday, October 21, 2004

About the Bull Moose

The Bull Moose is an unofficial blog sponsored by the Democratic Leadership Council. Although the Bull Moose has a deep affinity for the New Donkey, he is an independent in the tradition of Theodore Roosevelt's Progressive Party of 1912.

<snip>

[flpoljunkie]

8. This perhaps says more about the DLC than it does about Bullmoose--

Marshall Wittman, a former Republican who worked as an aide to John McCain.

[radio4progressives]

21. Isn't Bullmoose aka Marshall Wittman, DLC and former Reep/Aide to McCain?

:shrug:

[crispini]

9. It's a perfectly valid point.

Cuellar won his primary election despite the fact that the blogosphere HATES him. Bob Gammage, darling of many Texas liberal blogs, lost his primary last week. Richard Morrison, who raised thousands on the internet because he opposed DeLay in 04, lost his election.

I think he's correct, in fact. DU and other members of the liberal echo chamber need to come to terms with the fact that we are NOT representative of the majority of Democratic party voters. We are representative of a small, more well-off, technically savvy, fairly intelligent, politically astute demographic. We do NOT track the same way that the vast majority of voters, or even Democratic voters do. How is pointing this out "trashing" the Blogosphere?

[wyldwolf]

11. very good explanation

[Aaaargh]

20. So "the vast majority of voters" are rightwing Texans?

In your dreams, boys, only in your dreams.

[quaoar]

15. What constitutes trashing

Is writing off the blogosphere as a waste of time and politically irrelevant.

[crispini]

16. Waste of time? I'm not sure I'd concur,

and I don't think Bull Moose says that. Politically irrelevant? Well, a good presence in the blogosphere does not ensure you win your election. I cited three campaigns which were darlings of the blogosphere; all lost. I am actually running a small local campaign, and I discussed this with my candidate. I told him that we can count on the internet to raise money, maybe raise some volunteers, certainly attract the interest of the political junkies. But votes? No, votes are still won on the ground with direct mail, blockwalking, and phonebanking. Not via blogs. And actually, he agrees with me.

We as activists would have a lot more collective impact if we all got out and got involved with local politics in addition to posting on the internet. I know some of us do, but it's not enough of us by a long stretch.

[quaoar]

17. Go back and read it again

BullMoose says this:

In fact, if Democratic leaders want to be in touch with the voters they need they would be better served viewing re-runs of King of the Hill than reading most blogs.

Sounds to me like he thinks reading "most" blogs is a waste of time.

And I certainly don't think a blog alone is going to get anyone elected. Still takes boots on the ground. But how can folks write off something that can raise several thousand dollars for a campaign? Seems pretty fucking stupid to me.

[crispini]

18. Yeah, it's hyperbole.

But I think he makes a good point. Too many bloggers seem to think that the blogosphere is all that and a bag of chips. It's not.

[wyldwolf]

10. If you really want to bash the circular firing squad

Why not post in every anti-Democratic party thread at DU with a peace proposal?

DKOS "bashes" Democrats daily. Part of the site's reputation.

[ulysses]

12. bullmoose != democrat

[dorkulon]

14. Great article slamming Bull Moose

http://www.buffalobeast.com/66/wittman.htm

*snip*

Wittmann calls himself the "Bull Moose," and his blog, bullmooseblog.com, is one of two blogs funded and maintained by the Democratic Leadership Council. The other, as previously noted in this space, is the no-less-loathsome newdonkey.com, maintained by the noted corporate whore and windbag, Will Marshall.

A moose, and a donkey. The Democratic Leadership Council, it seems, is a place where soulless 50-year-old men can dress up in Garanimals and e-gloat about shooting our votes into space. It is really too bad the guillotine has gone out of style.

The above passage from Wittmann came from his Jan. 6 entry, and invited his "Mooseketeer" readers to respond to his little bit of self-promoting whimsy at this address: [e-mail]. I encourage readers of this column to send their own letters. I wrote one. Here it is:


Dear Fuckhead,
No, I don't think you should run for the chair of the Democratic Party. I think you should get into your car, check into the nearest dingy motel, eat one last cheeseburger and blow your brains out.

*snip*

[wyldwolf]

23. see? Two lines into your snip is a mistake

The other, as previously noted in this space, is the no-less-loathsome newdonkey.com, maintained by the noted corporate whore and windbag, Will Marshall.

Nope. It's Ed Kilgore.

[democracyindanger]

19. Marshall Wittman's an asshat.