Susan Sarandon; "Hillary has greatly disappointed me"

[killerbush]

Actress and liberal activist Susan Sarandon is taking shots at Hillary Clinton saying that she is being too cautious and centrist in her beliefs. She doesn't think Hillary is that moderate, and she is taking these positions just so she can be more easily elected.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com

Hillary is getting it from both sides. She gets hit by the left for being too moderate, and she gets hit by the center who says her liberal message won't win in 08.:shrug:

[bertha katzenengel]

1. You go, Susan.

Senator Clinton should stay in the Senate. She is not going to do her party or this country any good by trying to run for president.

[msatty99]

3. When Hillary introduced her 'ban flag burning bill'

is the moment I curdled on her.

That actually made me sick. My Repub Mother in law hates Hillary..so I
have always thought she must be ok. (Although why she has so many fans
I never got...I mean..she was a compentent if not accomplished attorney
who was married to Bill Clinton and failed at her Health reform bill
in the early 90's but...how does that qualify her for President?)

when she came out with that flag thing...I began to think "maybe my
Mother in law is right"

[tanyev]

6. Your Repub MIL hates Hillary because she has been programmed

to hate Hillary. Republican hatred for Hillary has absolutely nothing to do with any facts about Hillary. And no, I'm not on the Hillary 08 bandwagon.

[mtnsnake]

17. That's a crock! Hillary supported flag desecration legislation to AVOID

having a flag burning AMENDMENT occur. Back in June of 2005, she was one of the loudest Democrats voicing her opposition to any flag-burning amendment to the Constitution, and she STILL is adamantly against any such amendment.

Show me any "ban flag burning bill" she "introduced".

Criticize her, but get it right about what you're criticizing her for.

[msatty99]

18. I guess I just dreamed that Hillary

got on the 'anti flag burning' band wagon.

Yep.

Oh...it was just to avoid a flag burning amendment. Right.

(with Mitch McConnell being anti-flagburning amendment there is
no chance of that happening)

[mtnsnake]

20. You don't believe me? Here's the proof

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/6/23/95624.shtml

You wanna hate Hillary? Hate her for the right things at least and not some made-up bullshit that you can simply type in a post to make her look a lot worse than she is.

[msatty99]

19. By the way...

what is Hillary's position on the Iraq war?

[mtnsnake]

21. BTW, WTF does that have to do with your bogus post about her?

Nice try at changing the subject. LOL!

[msatty99]

28. By the way...did you actually READ the article you linked to?

It says almost exactly what I said:

Hillary supports anti flag burning legislation
but is against anti flag burning amendment

In other words, she is acting, on this at least, as a political HACK.

Sorry. I just am so not impressed.

and 'by the way' can you give me her position on
the Iraq occupation/war...I thought the topic was
Hillary...

and just so you know, if you are a Hillary supporter, you
are giving me so many more reasons to 'get behind her'.:sarcasm:

[mtnsnake]

29. "Almost" only applies to horseshoes. You need to read your OWN posts

again to see that your alleged nonsense about Hillary is exactly that, NONSENSE.

"It says almost exactly what I said"

That would be too funny, except for the fact you said right in your very first post, "When Hillary introduced her 'ban flag burning bill'".

Hillary did no such thing, yet you continue to try and spin your way out of it. The more you talk the deeper you dig!

I asked you before to back up your claim that she introduced any "ban flag burning bill", and not surprisingly, you couldn't.

[msatty99]

30. u r right and

i am wrong

and Hillary is still a hack

[Neil Lisst]

37. this will probably get me in trouble with the Hillary fans, but

here was the cartoon I did on that

[zanne]

2. There are too many negatives with Hillary.

The GOP would launch an all-out assault on her personality, her gender, her family, her looks, etc. Her message, if she finally gets one, would be lost in all the Hillary jokes. She's much too easy a target. If they could ruin a war hero's reputation for bravery in the span of a few months, just imagine what they would do to her. Nah. We'd just be making it too easy for them.

[SaveElmer]

8. So you have just given the Republicans...

A blueprint for knocking out candidates they do not want to face. Just attack mercilessly, and unfairly, and our fear of what the Republicans will do now dictates our choice!

[zanne]

10. That's right. I'm the first one to think of this.

I contacted the National Republican headquarters and told them they should make fun of Hillary. They said "Wow! We never thought of that"!

[SaveElmer]

11. You are demonstrating however...

That their tactics work...

[zanne]

13. So I shouldn't state the obvious?

I believe that the 2008 elections are make-it-or-break-it for us. If we don't win this time around, we might as well hang it up. Hillary is too risky for us this time around. Never misunderestimate the power of misogyny in this country. I'm just being realistic, and I want us to win. We have to win, or it's all over for democracy. I'm serious as a heart attack.

[SaveElmer]

15. I Disagree...

I think the "Hillary can't win" meme is just that...a meme. It has become conventional wisdom before a single ballot has been cast. I don't give a rats ass what the Republicans think or do, or what we think they are gonna do. And I certainly am not going to let fear of them drive the choice for a nominee.

[zanne]

16. You certainly have the right to another viewpoint...

I just want us to win and I hope and pray that we get a candidate who can take us to the White House.

[ChipsAhoy]

32. *****I agree with zanne on this******

Hillary will never take us to the White House. For one thing, America is not ready for a female President. Even Mother Teresa wouldn't win.

No -- we need a VIABLE candidate this time around. Do we ever!!

[high density]

36. So tell us all...

What red states is Hillary turning blue in 2008?

My only "fear" about Hillary is that she can't turn any red states blue. The right has already cast her as being a far left crazy person when in reality she's more of a moderate on most issues. Why the hell would we be itching to run somebody like that??? It just doesn't make any sense to me. At the same time they've got McCain cast as a moderate but he's just as crazy as Bush on many things.

[SaveElmer]

39. I think the following are most definitely doable...

Iowa, New Mexico, Colorado, Nevada, Arizona, Florida...possibly Montana and Ohio.

And again...I could give a rats ass about what the "right" do. The "right" has gotten the country into this mess we are in...they are morons...the absolute last people who I would care about what they think.

[high density]

42. Closing your eyes to what they're doing isn't going to make it go away

Just ask John Kerry and his 2004 staff.

[SaveElmer]

46. John Kerry and his staff rolled over...

Can you imagine Hillary doing the same thing? Not even cenceivable.

[Clark2008]

44. No, no, no, no, no, no and definitely no and no.

Hell, she'll even LOSE us Pennsylvania and Michigan in all probability.

I love that you think that misogyny doesn't exist - particularly in the breadbasket states you listed - but, Elmer, it does. And it will exist even MORE so because we'll be in some war, some where, and even some of the most enlightened people will NOT vote for a woman to be Commander in Chief.

I respect that you support Hillary and I think she makes a good senator for New York, but she won't break the glass ceiling in any of the states you listed.

[SaveElmer]

45. With all due respect...

You are dead wrong! I'm sorry you have internalized this view...but Hillary will break that ceiling...

[Clark2008]

54. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

The problem is that I have not internalized this view. I actually know a great number of people who vote Democratic, participate in Democratic primaries and think Bush is the worst president ever who have told me they will not, under any condition, vote for Hillary. Some because, and this is an actual quote, she is a "man-hating bitch" and others because of her triangulation on many issues. The left doesn't like her, the middle thinks she's too cold and calculating and the right has vilified her. She had very LITTLE middle ground on which to run.

I do think at some time, this country will be ripe for a female president. But, after 12 years of going backward on womens' issues, that time is not now and that female is not Hillary.

[xkenx]

56. People who say HRC can flip red states

ought to state their rationale for the statement. beyond just stating it. That's like me saying I can be president. 2008 is ALL ABOUT flipping a few red states into our column. Hillary certainly can't do it. Wes Clark is a progressive wolf in military uniform sheep's clothing. Many Republicans who didn't care for Bush, still couldn't vote for Kerry. Clark was the only Dem. they could consider. Clark has had more EXECUTIVE leadership roles than any Senator by virtue of his military commands where he had responsibility for the lives of hundreds of thousands of servicepeople and their dependents--the whole range of housing, education, training, healthcare, social services, sometimes in a dangerous spot. When Clark was Supreme Allied Commander Europe (Eisenhower's last military position), he had "Head-of-State" status, meaning that he dealt directly with prime ministers/presidents, not underlings. And Clark was virtually the only voice urging help for Rwanda. And Clark and Madeleine Albright were the ones who convinced Clinton to take action against the ethnic cleansing in the Balkans, where Clark carried out the military action w/o the loss of a single American life. In this he stood up to the Pentagon brass who wanted nothing to do with "saving Albanians." And it was Clark who served for more than 30 years AFTER getting shot up and winning hero medals in Vietnam, when he could have gone for the big bucks in private industry. Try Swift Boating this guy--the smackdown will be heard around the world. Clark is all about duty, honor, country. When Clark's American Dream/American Hero story gets out to middle America, watch how many red states flip. And the beauty of Wes Clark is that HE IS A REAL LIVE D-E-M-O-C-R-A-T, with a progressive agenda equal to anyone.

[mtnsnake]

27. Isn't that the truth

It's amazing how so many people here let themselves get pushed around so often by Republicans, eh.

[mtnsnake]

26. What's wrong with her personality and her looks? And as far as

your point about how "if they could ruin a war hero's reputation for bravery in the span of a few months, just imagine what they would do to her", what makes you think she'd start putting up with lies about her at some future point, when she's never ever put up with their bullshit before? Anytime she's hit with a stone by the rightwing neocons, she's returned the favor, only with a brick. Maybe you missed it when she hurled her own counter attack at them with her "vast right wing conspiracy" charges when the punks were going after Bill. Maybe you missed it when she practically had Rush Limbaugh in tears over his idiotic comments about Chelsea. Maybe you missed it when she recently answered Rove's insinuations that she was "too brittle" to be president when she told reporters that Rove was obsessed with her.

Don't worry, nobody is going to push this lady around, should she win the nod. That's one of the many things that has the OTHER side worried about her, not our side.

[wain]

4. Plus the competitiveness of Hollywood

To be noticed
B-)

[wyldwolf]

5. "Blessed Are The PeaceMakers, For They Shall Catch Hell From Both Sides"

Sign on the wall of the Justice Department office of Burke Marshall.

[Berry Cool]

12. Well, that's a bit of word play on the Bible. The Bible really DOES say...

(Rev. 3:15-16) "I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth."

Right now, that's how I feel about Hillary. She's not trying to hew a middle ground to be reasonable. She's being wishy-washy and lukewarm so she can get elected. Bleagh! I'd rather vote for someone who stands up, unafraid, for what she believes in. Of course, she doesn't care, because she believes that standing up for what she believes in will make her unelectable. Fine, but you just lost MY vote. ;-(

[wyldwolf]

14. Fortunately, Bible verses don't play a role in my politics

Though Hillary isn't my first choice, I'd rather have a candidate who recognizes that being a national leader means your consituency is bigger than one idealogy. Candidates like Truman, Kennedy, Carter, Bill Clinton, and yes, Hillary.

That is what "politics" is - the process and method of making decisions for groups. However, in a theocracy, I guess one would make someone choose one side or the other.

[Berry Cool]

50. It doesn't really have to do with Bible verses or theocracy.

One of them just happened to be handy as a means of explaining my problems with her.

I too value a candidate whose constituency is bigger than one ideology...but not at the expense of backing down on her principles. Hillary backs down on the important things, to my mind, all over the place. And why? Because she wants to get elected. That's all.

[wyldwolf]

53. such as?

[kestrel91316]

7. IMHO Hilary is unelectable. Too much blind hatred out there.

And yes, I think she's a DINO, and i don't care if it's just to get votes. It's not ok with me. I don't want somebody who lies their way into the WH quite so blatantly.

[ChipsAhoy]

33. Another good answer

She is wishy washy, at the best.

[PresidentObama]

9. Hillarys not my candidate

If she wins the nomination, which at this point despite the 2008 candidate polls, it isn't looking that way...I'll vote for her. But frankly, she's too polarizing. Too risky. And like killerbush said, the liberals don't like her because she's striving to look moderate, and the moderates don't like her because she's still too liberal. She's getting hit by both sides. Not too mention, she'll just rally the Republican base. And I saw a few polls. I don't remember which poll. Though, I'd gladly research it again to find it. It showed match-ups between McCain and Hillary. And it had state results that they did in the poll. Hillary was getting beaten in New Hampshire, I believe Maine, and even Mass. (If anyone knows which poll this is...please help me out here.)

Stuff like that troubles me. Plus that new poll out that says 51% don't want her to run, really troubles me as well. She's welcome to compete for the White House in 2008, but I don't think she'll win.

[mtnsnake]

22. If politicians cater 100% to each & every

ideal of people like Susan, we'd never win another election again.

Sure Hillary's going to piss off more than a few people. She's trying to put herself into the WH and she's being as political as she deems necessary to do it. Like her or not, at least when she says something people know what she's talking about.

[Ronnie]

23. Susan Sarandon greatly disappointed me

when she campaigned for Nader in 2000. To me that was a far greater sin than anything Hillary Clinton's done.

[wyldwolf]

25. yes

[tinfoilinfor2005]

31. Did she really?

Then she certainly has no room to throw any rocks. Thanks to the Nader gang, bush is now in the white house.

[mtnsnake]

35. Oh geez, I forgot about that! I'll bet Al Gore didn't forget it, though!

Thanks for the reminder, Ronnie. Now that I think of it I kind of remember her and Michael Moore stumping together on behalf of Nader.

[AtomicKitten]

40. excellent point.

[Sensitivity]

24. We have a tested leader in John Kerry. Why the obsession with Hillary

John Kerry is the most tested liberal leader of the party and he won the nomination in
a brutal competition. Why can't we focus on substantial issues rather than
debat personalities.

If the Party wants to change leaders in the 2008 primaries, then so be it. In the meantime
there is a host of issues facing our country -- Iraq, the environment, personal rights, the looming deficits-driven economic crisis -- that have to be addressed.

[mtnsnake]

38. After a campaign like Kerry's, it's no wonder that people start obsessing

about anyone, even Hillary, lol.

[demswin06]

34. Right now...

Hillary is a disappointment. She still needs to explain her war vote,and she sounds like the female,Democratic version of McCain,trying to appease the "middle". Right now,if the primary was being held,I'd vote for Feingold. I wanna hear how Hill would vote on censure :dilemma:

[mtnsnake]

41. Everyone please check out Ronnie's post (#23)

I think Susan Sarandon is the last person who should be giving us any advice when it comes to presidential elections.

[msatty99]

43. I see, its all Nader's fault

Al Gore messed up on his own. He tried to 'moderate' his message and
let Nader take all the green and anti-corporate positions.

I recall all the efforts on these boards to actually 'trade' votes
in states where it didn't matter in order to get a respectable vote
for Nader to 'send a message'. Maybe all those DUers were 'the last
people we should listen too.'

[killerbush]

47. Your wrong msatty99

If Gore had moderated his message, he'd be president right now instead of soldier killer Bush.

[msatty99]

48. All I can say is I disagree....

and beyond that this descends into a "I'm right and you're wrong"
debate.

I feel that the environment was a great message that Gore OWNED.

Yet, he let Nader have that as he moved to the middle on it. But,
as you say, maybe I am wrong. All those who went for Nader
would have moved to Gore if he moderated his message even more.

[NativeTexan]

49. Susan disappointed me when, she didn't back up her words...

...that she would move out of the country if Bush got elected in 2000. Not wanting to get rid of her, but she shouldn't make comments from a position like hers, if she isn't going to back them up....at least of a while. It made her look silly and weak, which I know she isn't!

[Muddy Waters Guitar]

51. Centrist isn't the right word-- foolishly hawkish is the description

Supporting permanent bases in Iraq and an expansion of the war after already having pushed for it in the first place without proper analysis, calling for sanctions and attacks on Iran, stupidly joining in with the regime change chorus on Syria, all this on top of her pro-outsourcing stands when our workers are already struggling to maintain wages and employment as it is, plus this lame flag-burning amendment-- sorry, that's not centrist. Hillary's hawkishness lately in particular exceeds even that of Bush, not even he's been pushing so much for regime change in Syria. Her war stands cannot be ignored nor condoned, they are not acceptable and a large contingent of progressives will be looking elsewhere if she were nominated in 2008.

Many have made this point before-- Hillary doesn't gain from this hawkishness, it's a political as well as an ethical miscalculation. Republicans and Independents will not support her, they are dead-set against her anyway, she is only losing her base with these stands.

[msgadget]

52. Repackaged conservative

who happens to be pro-choice...sort of. I worry that her voting record and stances are way too calculated to be representative of what we'll get if she's president. The Clintons and their former staffers have a lot of influence and are jerking the party through all kinds of triangulations. I don't like it.

[AX10]

55. Hillary is a loser.

God forbid she gets the nod in 08'.