I'm not convinced *'s poll numbers mean the fundamentals have changed.

[unschooler]

The fact that 65% (or whatever) disapprove of *'s handling of the Iraq war doesn't mean all 65% are now going to vote liberal.

I'm not seeing changes in the underlying conservative beliefs of too many Americans. An awful lot of out fellow citizens are still essentially pro-war, anti-woman, anti-gay, anti-environment Bible-thumpers. They may be mad about *'s "incompetence" in Iraq or how much money the war is costing us, but that doesn't mean they won't support an even worse republican in 2008.

Right-wing populism is still on the march, and it's the real enemy.

[rman]

1. For all i know it's not just about the Iraq war,

but about W performance approval in general. Ie economy, tax cuts, domestic spying, port deal. And i think in the minds of many people it does extend to most of the Rupub party - ie Abramoff.

What hasn't changed is corporate control of the MSM, and their henchmen in the government.
That's why W still hasn't been impeached.

[unschooler]

4. The port debacle is a good example of what I'm saying.

Just because the average American is ticked about letting an Arab company run ports doesn't mean they've gone liberal. It probably means that on this issue they're more conservative than the administration.

[rman]

7. Wrt the ports repubs are as "conservative" as dems

The republican electorate and democratic electorate have more in common with one another then either have in common with either party.
Just look at what polls say about tax funded ("nationalized") healthcare and look at what both parties do wrt that issue. Same for enviroment, education, social security, corporate influence in governemnt, etc.

[AndyTiedye]

2. Drop In Bush**'s Poll Numbers More Than Made Up For By Increase In...

Republican Electing Machinez

[depakid]

3. Poll after poll suggests otherwise

Progressive issues such as healthcare, education, the environment, campaign finance reform, consumer protections- go down the list- are tremedously popular, consistently scoring in the high 60% to 70% range.

Right wing policies ARE the enemy- and the more Dems embrace them- the worse for everyone- especially the Party itself.

Maybe 1/3 of the voting electorate (maybe) share the attitudes, beliefs and values that you describe- and they could be easily relegated to the fringe where they belong if there were ever a nationalized campaign that played to our strengths and called those folks out for the whack jobs that they are.

[unschooler]

6. I hope you're right. I'm just not sure strong polling for, say, health

care issues will translate to elected democrats in November, particular when the repugs trot out the usual saws about "protecting" marriage, life and apple pie.

[Jacobin]

12. Gawd, Guns and Gays

Will trump jobs, healthcare, war, economy, every fucking time, because we have an idiotic electorate and media owned by the extreme right wing.

[unschooler]

13. They're the Triple Crown that keeps incompetent fascists in power.

:eyes:

[izzie]

5. People often vote as they have always voted even if they-------

do not like what is going on. I go on how I my self voted for that. I was hating things I saw GOP doing for years before I stopped voting that party. I also am not always happy with what the Dem. do but generally I think like them so I will keep voting in that party. I hated them giving all this power to the President for wars. Then I was not happy with the Korean war(Truman) or Vietnam)Ike, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon) either. I also think the the Dem. have sort of forgotten the working man and is to interested in big business. Like what happened to Taft-Harley Law? I think that is the sp.

[Lexingtonian]

8. what changes

is not what people believe, so much, as their desire to impose it on everyone else.

Turnaround elections generally don't involve people switching sides (that's generally protest voting, not a change in allegiances). The political bloc that is switching sides stays home for an election, which makes their former side lose. The next election they show up for the other party.

Each side presently has a 32% hard core that would never vote for the other team. The other 36% are aligned in a social consensus defined by one side or the other...since '66 or '68 the center has leaned to being with Republicans, but before that it was with Democrats for 36 or 38 years.

Most internalized beliefs end only with the arrival of the Grim Reaper. But a lot of the present bigotries are pretty generational, and the dying out of the pre-WW2 generation(s) is just about enough to tip a lot of the issues you refer to.

[unschooler]

14. Very insightful! And encouraging! Who are you? Zogby?

Most internalized beliefs end only with the arrival of the Grim Reaper. But a lot of the present bigotries are pretty generational, and the dying out of the pre-WW2 generation(s) is just about enough to tip a lot of the issues you refer to.

:toast:

[Virginia Dare]

9. People are feeling increasingly helpless..

perhaps that will fuel a "throw the bums out" mentality.

[leftyladyfrommo]

10. I Do Think People are Disappointed in Bush

They thought he was a moral man and have been bitterly disappointed in him.

I'm not sure how this is going to translate into politics.

[Jacobin]

11. This is true

Cue six weeks prior to election media bliz:
1)Liberals love gays
2)Liberals kill babies
3)Liberals will let Osama come run the U.S.
4)Did I mention liberals will let gays get married?
5)Liberals will take your guns away
6)Liberals hate Jesus


Result:

Repuke congresscritters 52%
Liberals congresscritters 48%

[unschooler]

15. And librul presidential candidates marry uppity women!

Another important reason to stay with the party of Gawd and apple pie.... :eyes: