would young men/women care more if there were a draft

[greenbriar]

and they all faced certain servitude?

[fooj]

1. How could they not? I'd say YES!

Peace.

[formernaderite]

53. with no draft, the public will never feel very connected to a war protest

of any kind. Sad and selfish, but true. That's why there really are no anti-war anthems etc. It's not just the current climate of disdain for criticism...even those people who don't support the war, can't be bothered to support the other side either.

[babylonsister]

2. The national angst would go up. How couldn't it? nt

[pnwmom]

17. Bush doesn't respond to "national angst." He's on a mission. n/t

[Whoa_Nelly]

3. Absolutely they would

It was what stirred up and put into motion the active participation of so many to be against the Vietnam War. It scared the shit out of families and their children, and even more, it angered them enough to want to take a visible stance.

[Erika]

4. It would be the end of the Iraq war and any other ME war

The voluntary draft is looked at by the GOP elitists, as a chance for low-income kids to see the world and get an education.

The moment the draft was announced, the GOP elitists would kill the draft. Not their kids. Not their kids.

[DianaForRussFeingold]

7. The moment the draft was announced, the GOP elitists would kill the draft.

This video might hit home if their kids were drafted.They would be so worried . There would be no more war..http://movies.crooksandliars.com/greenday_wakemeupwhenseptemberends-video_ref.mo :patriot:

[pnwmom]

18. Dream on. They'd just find a way to exempt their kids. n/t

[babylonsister]

5. Edit to end. nt

[Marie26]

6. Yes. nt

[pnwmom]

8. WITH A DRAFT, more than 50,000 US soldiers died in Vietnam.

A draft is no solution. It just gives the govt. more bodies to churn through the killing machine. It took years of protests and more than 50,000 deaths before we were able to end the Vietnam war and the draft.

A volunteer army, on the other hand, limits the govt. to wars that enough people would volunteer to fight in. With a draft, the govt. can easily fight an unpopular war.

[unhappycamper]

15. There are 58,284 names carved on The Wall in DC.

I look up my friends every time I visit DC.

That war fucked up a whole generation of people - men, women, families. A large segment of the homeless population is directly attributable to the Viet Nam war.

[pnwmom]

19. Our volunteer military is the only thing that is holding them back.

The Vietnam war would have ended much sooner with a volunteer military because they never would have found 58,284 Americans to give their lives to that cause.

Thank you for the statistic, unhappycamper.

[onenote]

66. only around 18,000 of those that died in Nam were draftees

Around 70 percent of those who died in Nam were enlistees/officers. Of course, a number of the enlistees may have signed up "voluntarily" because they felt that would get them a better shake than being drafted...

onenote

[pnwmom]

78. That 70% number is meaningless because of the large number that

only "volunteered" to try to get a better position than they would have if they had been drafted. That is why all the men I knew (who went) "volunteered."

[rexcat]

113. I can vouch for that...

My draft number was 18, two weeks after I got my draft number I received a draft physical notice in the mail. Two weeks after receiving my notice for the draft physical I was taking my draft physical. About two weeks after that I was signing papers to enlist in the Air Force!

A draft won't happen anytime soon because it would be political suicide.

[guidod]

114. Only 18,000?

That's 36,000 Moms and Dads. Probably around 72,000 brothers and sisters. That adds up to about 108,000. And don't forget all of the aunts and uncles, and, oh yeah, Grand Parents. We can't forget all of their friends, can we. That was probably between 5 and 10 million grieving people because there was ONLY 18,000 draftees killed in Viet Nam.

[Lasher]

9. I was drafted in 1969

And I cared a boatload! Ironic thing was, I couldn't vote because I wasn't old enough. You had to be 21 back then. That's one thing that's better now. If you're old enough to kill and die for your country in war, you're old enough to vote.

[pnwmom]

11. I cared enough to protest, though I knew I wouldn't be drafted

but the protests took YEARS and tens of thousands of soldiers died in the meantime.

[Lasher]

20. Peace, sister!

It's still a groovy idea.

My gender put me, shall we say, a little more at risk. I was drafted before they started the lottery, so the only thing I knew was that they would probably just snatch me up as soon as I was eligible. They did.

[pnwmom]

23. I've been out with the Quakers waving signs on street corners since

well before the war in Iraq began. Cindy Sheehan is my hero. I have two teenage sons (who take turns going with me), so it makes me CRAZY when I hear Democrats blithely talk about reinstating a draft. If the Democrats end up being the ones to hand Bush a national draft, that's it for me and the party.

[Lasher]

25. We've lost our way a little, pnwmom

It used to be clear that Democrats were the party of peace. I don't remember a lot of Democrats being in favor of conscription back then. We can find our way back. It just sickens me that we have to go through another Vietnam.

Ike was right.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/09/30/60minutes/main892398.shtml

[pnwmom]

26. yeah, he looks awfully good now, doesn't he? n/t

[MadMaddie]

31. I don't think the Democrats would call for a Draft.....now the Repugs

war mongers....they would have to employ the draft to keep the projected long term war going....it would backfire of course...

[file83]

10. If we do a land invasion of Iran, won't a draft be necessary?

[stevekatz]

99. we'll never

Commit to a land invasion of Iran

[guidod]

115. Never say never,

we some how ended up in Iraq. Welcome to DU. :toast:

[dethl]

12. Sadly, it would probably take a draft now to wake up my generation...

n/t

[AtomicKitten]

13. Yes, and then they'd really take to the streets.

But since I have a 19-year-old son, I'm glad that's a hypothetical question.

[pnwmom]

16. But the news media wouldn't cover the story and the neo-cons

don't care what Americans want.

[izzie]

14. Yes

--

[mmonk]

21. Nothing improves one's capacity to think than

the possibilty of someone else deciding their fate.

[blondeatlast]

22. We need to get teens involved in the political process; a start

Vote@18:
Moms Sign up the Senior Class
is a nonpartisan national grassroots project whereby mothers (and others) visit classrooms of high school seniors and register them to vote.

It’s simple, really. Just like we’ve always done, we moms help our kids fill out forms.

But this time it isn’t a permission slip for a school field trip, or even a college application.

It’s something that we hope they’ll use for the rest of their lives.

It’s a voter registration form.
(more)

http://www.themmob.org/voteat18/voteat18.html

For those unfamiliar with the MMOB, they began as Mainstreet Moms Oppose Bush. They have morphed into Mainstreet Moms Operation Blue. They are heavily involved in ending the war in Iraq, pushing for voting machine accountability ( http://www.themmob.org/hava/hava.html ), and opposing unfair military recruitment practices.

And they are really nice people!

[pnwmom]

24. Thanks for the info! n/t

[cindyw]

27. I don't think so. I think people 16-24 have romantic idea of war.

nt

[coalition_unwilling]

30. Yes, I agree with you. But their parents (the vast, unwashed middle class)

do not. If military conscription (about which I have conflicting feelings) were brought back, the country would soon become ungovernable, much as it was post-69 through '74, as the vigils with 15-20 people now turned into daily protests with thousands of middle class parents and many of their children.

[pnwmom]

33. I just heard Murtha say that post 1967, more than 38,000 Americans

died. So there must have been tens of thousands in the period you cite, but the killing went on.

I think we may be giving ourselves too much credit about the protests. The little incident at the Watergate Hotel may have really triggered the end of the war.

[coalition_unwilling]

72. Hmm, yes the killing did go on. But how long would it have

continued without a large anti-war movement? As for what may have triggered the end of the war, I personally think it was LBJ's decision not to run for re-election. From that point on, everyone knew there would be no "victory" and it was just a matter of time and casualties before the war ended.

Watergate never would have happened the way it did, were it not for Daniel Ellsberg leaking the Pentagon Papers (which caused the formation of the Plumbers).

I simply cannot see the American middle class standing still (as they have for the most part on the Iraq War so far), if their own precious kiddies are being conscripted to fight it. But, to quote Rumsferatu, "who knows?"

[pnwmom]

76. I'm sorry, but I have two of those "precious kiddies." You're making me

sick.

Back during the Vietnam war era, we actually had a news media that did its job -- which we don't have now. We had extensive coverage of protests -- which we don't have now. And yet still, we had a huge support among the public for "My country, right or wrong" -- as opposed to the protesters.

The same thing would happen now, except even worse, because of the way the Bush administration can manipulate terror threats.

I remember in 1972 when George McGovern lost 49 states. This is a country that has always been divided, and there has always been a HUGE group that thinks patriotism equals blind faith.

[coalition_unwilling]

91. I'm making you sick? If so, I apologize. No offense was intended.

My two weekly anti-war vigils average between 15-20 people at each. If there were a draft for the War for Empire, I'm sure that number would have ballooned into the hundreds or even thousands by now.

[pnwmom]

94. Thank you. Having an 18 year old son, it is very hard for me to read

this stuff calmly. But I never thought I'd be arguing with Democrats about starting up a draft again. I thought that was something the Republicans might do.

I remember being so relieved, years ago, when my younger brother finally turned 26, and then 30, and I could feel that he was in the clear. And this was after Vietnam, but I still didn't trust them. Then all these years, and all these little "wars" (or whatever they were) involving our military. And the whole time I was wondering, afraid that something was going to turn into another Vietnam.

Then 9/11, and Bush immediately starts talking about Iraq, and I knew we were there. I was out protesting that winter (and since then), and I brought my sons with me.

And so now I have an 18 year old son, another son just behind him, we're three years into another Vietnam, and people are talking about a draft again. My worst nightmare!

[coalition_unwilling]

100. I've been protesting since Oct. 2001 and after four+ years

I've concluded that the middle class right now has no "skin in the game" which is the only thing that explains why they aren't protesting more actively.

I actually believe that universal military conscription (with no exemptions) would actually help keep the government honest about how it uses the military (at least post-Vietnam). But I understand those who are opposed to the return of military conscription.

[pnwmom]

102. You might be overlooking other factors. College students, for example,

face much greater financial pressures than the students of a generation ago. I was reading an article yesterday about the high cost of college and the heavy burden of student and family loans. Students today are very job and career oriented because they don't feel they have any choice.

I think back in the 60's and early 70's young people felt much more hope, more optimism, more freedom to explore -- and to protest, when necessary.

If I, as an adult, was deeply shaken by 9/11, imagine how it must have hit our teenagers. This is the only world they have known. They didn't live through Vietnam. They don't know who to believe about Iraq. They're just kids. They don't want to think our country is as deeply screwed up as it us.

[coalition_unwilling]

105. I'm with you 100% about financial pressures on today's college students.

I went to college in the late '70s and early '80s and financed most of my studies through PELL grants, scholarships and work studies. When I was working on graduate degrees, I learned that a great transformation in financial aid had taken place, such that many undergrads were leaving with loan balances cloes to $100,000. (Which explained why most of them were not majoring in English or History, my two majors as an undergrad.)

But I still maintain that, were they faced with the prospect of military conscription for a boondoggle like Iraq, they would be paying a lot more attention and taking a lot more action than they are right now.

[pnwmom]

106. So what about the ones that have been taking action, like my sons?

They'd get caught up in your draft, too.

[coalition_unwilling]

112. Yes, I know. But the price of a republic is (I think an argument

can be made) universal military conscription.

Consider the situation currently: the enlisted ranks are filled with people who fell victim to the "poverty draft." Is it fair or just that the poor of our society are fighting the battles that enrich BFEE and its cronies? The current officer corps right now is increasingly peopled by right-wing evangelical Christian kooks. A system of universal military conscription would render the military a far more democratic, i.e., republican, institution (emphasis on the lower-case 'r').

But I do have to admit there are arguments on both sides.

[treestar]

116. Exactly! Self centered baby boomers don't want THEIR kids

fighting a REAL war, much less a fake one.

The right wing war supporters who would shut up if they had to lose their own kids to it would dwindle to nothing.

[Blue_Tires]

73. i know i did at that age

and if there were a draft, the rich kids would still find ways to stay out of danger and be the future senators of america

[guidod]

28. No. I faced the draft

when I graduated in 1966 so I immeditely joined the Navy to try and stay off the front lines in Viet Nam. Young people that are graduating from High School shouldn't be forced to have this on their minds. They should be thinking about their future, as an adult, not worrying about going off to war. My adult life was somewhat screwed up because of the lack of properly structuring my post High School years. No, no draft.

[Javaman]

29. you know all the roits we are not seeing right now?

if there was a draft, you would see riots just about every day. The moron* knows that. if he calls for a draft, he'll screw the pooch. All the neocons know that. Even the slightest mention of the word would be enough for everyone in this country to go apeshit.

[pnwmom]

32. They would just use riots as an excuse to further restrict civil liberties

They would probably love the opportunity, and they would clamp down with the blessings of much of America.

[Javaman]

36. Good point, but I think that would have been true 2 years ago...

now it would be certain political death.

[pnwmom]

39. Why would it be certain political death -- when they control the

ballot counting?

[Javaman]

45. Ahh but ballot counting and riots aren't mutually exclusive.

If you have riots in all the major cities and public demand to stop them, it's really hard to throw an election without someone becoming really suspicious then.

People are complacent to a point. Once repuke families kids are right up there with dem kids for the draft, you will suddenly see the repuke support for a war drop off.

Then if the repuke leaders throw and elections, it won't just be riots from that point on. it would be alot worse.

People are stupid to a point. And it appears that that point it harder and harder to reach these days, but a draft would get the nation to that point really quick.

Read about the peace movement during Vietnam. It was big but didn't get really big until the draft began.

[pnwmom]

46. I don't have to READ about the peace movement, I was THERE!

And I'm telling you, it still took YEARS and tens of thousands of deaths before the war finally ended. More than 38,000 DEATHS after '67, according to Murtha.

And that Watergate break-in may have had more to do with the end of Vietnam than the protests did.

Your history teachers are naive, if that's where you're getting these ideas about the draft. When WE pushed for a volunteer army, it was because we had seen that a national draft gave the government an almost limitless ability to wage war. We wanted them to have to restrict themselves to actions that people would actually volunteer for.

It kills me that so many of you are either so naive or so willing to disregard history.

[Javaman]

56. I see your point but..

I think what we maybe disagreeing about is semantics. When I mean draft, I should have said lottery. Which began on dec 1st 1969.

but getting back to my original post, ballot counting and riots aren't mutually exclusive.

If that was the case, there should have been a great number of riots after the florida miscount in 2000 and the ohio miscount of 2004.

Until peoples lives are directly effected on a day to day level that causes grief, hardship or lack of money, it will be business as usual for the majority of the people in this nation.

If nixon and watergate had one lasting effect upon this nation, it wasn't that our constitution worked and we get rid of a crook, but the fallout effect of: all politicians are crooks. Which leads to a more dangerous situation: Apathy towards our political system. Which leads to the logical thought: if they are all crooks, who can I trust?

So when moron* lies, breaks the law or throws elections, a small minority is outraged but the majority shrugs and thinks it as politics as usual.

[pnwmom]

61. The peace movement got bigger and bigger not because of the

change to the lottery system, but because that many more soldiers were DYING. And because the media was actually covering the deaths, the body bags, the blood, everything.

We've already had massive protests against the war in Iraq (for example, in Washington) with practically no media coverage. So what do we do about that?

[mtnsnake]

34. Take the amount of protesting you're seeing today & multiply it by 100

if there was a draft.

College campuses would be organizing like crazy, & there would be marching in the streets on a regular basis by young people and old alike, and I'm not just talking about the occasional marches in a few random large cities. The entire atmosphere would be different.

Unfortunately, Bush has stretched our military capability so thin with this crazy war that he's making our soldiers go to Iraq for extended stays of duty that are abnormally long.

AND...if you ask National Guardsmen, they'd probably tell you that in essence there IS a draft.

[pnwmom]

37. We need to learn from our history. We had protests across the U.S. in

Vietnam, but it still took years, and tens of thousands of more deaths, before we pulled out. And that probably had as much to do with Nixon's troubles in Watergate as anything else.

If you remember post Vietnam, you will remember that the whole reason for turning to the volunteer army was so that we would only be able to fight wars that had enough popular support. A draft makes a war like Vietnam or Iraq easier to continue, not harder. More than 58,000 Americans wouldn't have died in Vietnam if we had had to rely on volunteers.

[mtnsnake]

44. Yes we do. I can't believe how little protesting goes on, compared to

the days of Vietnam, when millions of people young and old let their feelings be known. I don't live near any major urban areas of NY, but you'd think there would be the occasional protest march that I could join in on somewhere within a couple hours drive. Nope, that's not the case. About all I can ever do is join in once and a while at one of the local post offices with a handful of people standing on the sidewalk with a few signs for people to honk their horns for peace.

The general public is very apathetic, even though most are against this shitty war. I guess as long as it doesn't touch them directly, they're content just to complain from their living room couch when they're not talking to their stock broker.

[pnwmom]

48. Go ahead and join the smaller groups of people honking, then.

If enough of us get out there, we'll attract others.

And we all need to break our backs working in this next election.

[mtnsnake]

49. Yup, & I've been right there on the sidewalk with the other ones holding

the signs asking people to honk on a few scattered Saturday mornings, too. One thing I've noticed in the few times I've joined in is that more and more tractor trailer drivers are honking their horns as of late. Not all of them but more than used to. When those guys honk, everyone takes notice, lol.

[pnwmom]

51. Something else that kills me is today's lack of media coverage.

Remember when we had gavel to gavel, wall to wall convention coverage? Nowadays, if we had a repeat of the Chicago convention, it would be covered in a ten second sound bite, followed by four minutes on Donald Trump's newest baby.

[mtnsnake]

55. Trump's baby or Pitt's wedding to be that wasn't to be but might still be

Aye

[raccoon]

64. Not only that, are you old enough to remember when we

didn't know who would nominated to run by either party until the convention?

[pnwmom]

79. Yeah, unfortunately, I am that old. lol n/t

[pnwmom]

38. True -- National Guard is essentially being drafted. Why aren't their

families out on the streets?

[erpowers]

60. Afraid

Some of them might just be afraid of what would happen to their family member if they protested. Maybe some of their family members hope to have 20 year careers in the military and they do not want to mess up things for their family members. They may not want their family member to be demoted or stuck at the same rank for longer than they are supposed to. Also, they might be scared that their family member might get kicked out of the military if they speak against the war.

[John Barrett]

35. I Know Young Men Definitely Would

I can tell you that men would, but not sure about women as they aren't required to register. Men are required to register at age 18 and there are checks on whether they do or not. No college loans, no government jobs, etc.

[Nutmegger]

40. This should be a poll - I say yes

At my school, my peers could care less. This "war" is not in everybody's living-room so it's an "out of sight, out of mind" situation. Betcha the "war" wouldn't last more than a year after people start feeling the damage over lies.

:mad:

On edit: it shouldn't take a draft to get my peers involved. I don't support an implementation of a draft especially over this "terra" crap.

[IA_Seth]

108. Poll Created

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2531573

[Stinky The Clown]

41. Emphatically .... *yes*

That was a huge power force behind the anti war movement in the 60s. It got a lot of young awake, aware, and involved.

[pnwmom]

43. Does anyone else remember Ohio State? The Chicago convention?

Tear gas at Berkeley? And on and on and on . . . these would be NOTHING compared to the police actions that Bush would use to clamp down on any protesters that threatened his power.

Maybe we'll have to face this someday. But it shouldn't be because Democrats are so stupid that WE support a draft hoping that it will end the war in Iraq more quickly.

[Catchawave]

54. Kent State ?

[pnwmom]

57. Right, sorry!

[msgadget]

42. YES, and so would their terrified parents. n/t

[trof]

47. Betcher ass!

[Freddie Stubbs]

50. Does anyone remember all of the prediction on DU

that there would be a draft in the spring on 2005 if bush were reelected?

[pnwmom]

52. Yes. Bush would LOVE for the Democrats to promote a draft,

so that he would have the armies for all his grand schemes. He doesn't want to take the heat for it himself.

[erpowers]

58. They Care

I think many young people care about the Iraq war. Many of the young people are very aware of what is going on in the world today. The idea that young people do not care is, in my opinion, the same as the idea that Democrat do not have any ideas and cannot come up with an alternative to Bush and the Republican Party. It is an issue made up by the media. I may not like everything about Adam Morrison, but he is a 19 year old who is reading Cofessions of an Economic Hitman and is very aware of issues and things that are going on in the world. I think there are many youngsters out there who care about the Iraq War.

When I was in college a few years ago many of the kids were watching the political issues, especially the Iraq war and they were debating these issues. I think the media and other maybe those in control of the media have just decided to push to idea that young people do not care. Many people have pick up on this wrong idea. Even on sports boards some people think the young people/generation know nothing about working hard, caring about issues, and struggling to make it. This idea is just wrong. Young people are very aware and caring about the issues.

It is sad that the media decided not to cover the young people who decided to give up their Spring Break in order to go to New Orleans and the Gulf Coast in order to help the people affected by Katrina rebuild their homes. For years many people bashed generation X and then Y; however, each time in new century that they have been given a chance to do something good they have stepped up and tried to help make things better. Finally, many young people voted for Kerry which is why he was able to carry that age group.

[SteppingRazor]

59. Of course. The only reason the 60s happened the way it did...

was because of a draft. I can't believe the Vietnam War would have endured such widespread protest by young Americans if they didn't have a vested interest in it. The same holds true for the Iraq War -- and, ofr that matter, any matter of public policy. You tend to get involved when you have something to personally lose or gain

[pnwmom]

62. The only reason 58,000 died was because of the DRAFT. We would

never have found that many volunteers to die.

[onenote]

65. actually, only around 30 percent of those killed in Nam were draftees

The rest were enlistees/officers. Of course, its impossible to say how many of those that enlisted did so because they thought it was a preferable route to being drafted...

onenote

[SteppingRazor]

67. Completely agree. But that wasn't the question.

The question was, would young people care more about the Iraq War if there was a draft?

And the answer is, undountedly, yes.

[onenote]

68. agreed.

No question that the debate about invading iraq would've been much different if there was a draft. The purpose of my post was simply to set the record straight in response to the post that suggested that all of the casualties in Vietnam were draftees.

onenote

[SteppingRazor]

70. My post is responding to the same post you are...

not responding to your post :hi:

[onenote]

71. oops!

I see that now. My bad. Thanks.

[pnwmom]

81. Never said all dead were draftees -- just that without a draft, we

wouldn't have had so many.

[pnwmom]

75. So what? If they cared, but the govt. didn't, so what?

Having lived through the Vietnam years, and the struggle to end the war AND the draft, it KILLS me that Democrats (of all people) speak so lightly about starting it up again.

If the Democrats help to start up a draft, that will be the end of the party. Perhaps that is what some of the proponents really want.

[SteppingRazor]

90. For the record, I'm most certainly NOT for having a draft n/t

[mike923]

63. So, could the Democrats initiate a draft....

with the notion that people would rebel against it, thus ending the war?

Where can i sign a petition supporting the draft, then?

[SteppingRazor]

69. If we're willing to have a lot more people killed initially...

for a quicker end eventually, then yes, we should institute a draft.

But personally, I'd rather not see the loss of life it would cause. Ending the Iraq War is important. But the ends don't always justify the means, and that's certainly true in this case.

[pnwmom]

85. Yes, the end doesn't justify the means. Thank you for that. n/t

[pnwmom]

84. Now think. If the Democrats started a draft, and the people

rebelled against it, guess who they would be rebelling against. THE DEMOCRATS.

But maybe what you're really after is the end of the Democratic party, because that is what would happen.

[laugle]

74. A draft is the only thing that would finally unite this country against

the BUSH REGIME!!

This would probably be a good thing, as this immoral, criminal, illegitimate, phony war is obviously not worth having a draft over!!

However, if we were attacked again, I could see them doing it! They would try to spin it as a matter of national security. Lies, lies and more lies.

The question is "could Americans be fooled again"?? I wish I knew the answer........

[pnwmom]

82. Are you kidding? Could Americans be fooled again? Of course! n/t

[laugle]

92. In case you haven't noticed people are WAKING UP BIG TIME!

Bush is polling around 34% and people are hep to his Rovian tactics.

I haven't totally lost faith in Americans yet, I'm waiting until after the 2006 election........

If it isn't fixed, I think we can take back the House and impeach GW Idiot!!

Keep the faith.....it's about all we have right now.

Welcome to DU!

[pnwmom]

93. I sure hope you're right. What I really fear is what will happen if

there is another terrorist incident. Will the U.S. just give Bush another blank check?

[laugle]

109. It's interesting that you ask that question, because I posted a

thread on "what do you think Bush would do if there was another attack" unfortunately, I couldn't get any serious responses from people at DU.

I think it is an important question, as I like to think ahead, it sounds like you may be of similar mind.

I wouldn't worry to much about another attack, just be sure you do what you need to do for you and your family.

Focus on what you can do to insure democratic candidates win in 2006. That is the most important thing we all can do, then we can start to clean-up the mess Bushco has made.

Hopefully, we will have a bonus an impeach the idiot in the House.

Think positive.....peace to you.

[Breeze54]

77. My 17 yr old would care and so would ! n/t

[madmunchie]

80. In a word, YES

and furthermore, I would like to see a draft started. We would see Bush run out of office so fast our heads would spin AND people would think twice about supporting the WH and or Congress when they want to take us to war.

[pnwmom]

83. If Democrats start a draft, THEY will the ones that will be run out

of office -- not Bush -- and mothers like me will be leading the charge. We will view it as a complete betrayal by our party. And it will play into the hands of Bush, who would love to have so many conscripts for his grand plan.

[madmunchie]

86. The best way to ensure peace is to make sure that everybodies children

will have to serve in the military, not just people that are of lower income levels. Or people that used to respect the military. My father, ex and son have all served in the Military. They served their country. My ex and my son believe that Iraq is a sham and hate Bush, though not more than I do. This isn't a Democrat or Republican thing. This is a human rights thing. People that have to send their own children into the military won't be so cavalier about doing so. The flip answers of "they sign up" won't be heard. Instead, they will REALLY CARE about what wars this country chooses to fight. AND that is what I want. I don't want us in any war unless it is truly the last resort and the only way to do this is to give everybody something to lose...sacrifice and not just a few of us.

[uppityperson]

110. Problem is those that can get out of serving.

Pay their way, bribe their way, have friends/family in power. The draft will always be unfair. It would be good to make it less easy to get out, but those in power will figure out a way.

[madmunchie]

87. Besides, I didn't say that the Dems would start a draft

I would presume that it would be * and his cronies if started within the next couple of years.

I don't want anybody to be drafted to go to Iraq.

I would think that after this Iraq thing is under control, if that is even possible, that then it would be a good time to enlist kids to serve the country for 1 year or so in many different capacities. Not just military. If we all gave and if we all sacrificed we would be more inclined to make wiser decisions and to know more about what our country is actually doing and not be so wrapped up in "Desperate Houswives".

[bush_is_wacko]

88. I think they care more than you realize right now.

My daughter's HS is really a hotbed of political activity these days and it seems to become so more and more each day. They have actually managed to get recruiters out of their school by simply taking all their bumper stickers, flyers and propaganda and walking away without speaking to them. The recruiters finally realized that school, at least, was a lost cause.

I think they would care more if there were a draft going on but I think they are aware enough now that that will never happen.

Our military numbers are down and dropping. Young people are not buying this war or the presnits crap, at least, not where I come from anyway.

By the way, my daughter and her friends will be able to vote for the first time in the next election and I have not spoken with any of them that don't plan to vote for change! They are simply not buying Rethuglican rhetoric!

[ProudDad]

89. You bet your ass

As they would be betting theirs.

[Joey Liberal]

95. The republicans would care a lot more too because

If the children of red state republicans were getting drafted and sent to Iraq and returning in coffins, they would be upset too.

[pnwmom]

96. Plenty of red state young people are volunteering and being sent

home in coffins, but that doesn't seem to be turning those red states blue.

[tulip]

97. Reinstating the draft to end the war is crazy talk.

Kids do care. They care alot! I work with young people and I guarnatee you they give a damn about this war. People choose to go into the military. No one forced them. No kid has to go into the military to be able to afford college. NONE. Money is available for college especially if their parents have a lower income. If they have decent grades they can get into college without having to resort to joining the military. A good education and a little personal sacrafice is the way out of poverty.

Taking about re-instating the draft so it will end the war is crazy talk. It's exactly what they want Democrats to do! It gets them their boots and they can blame it on Democrats.

[pnwmom]

103. I wonder if some of the people promoting a draft are Greens who

want to tear the Democratic party apart; to blur the differences between the Democrats and Republicans -- so they can say, join the Greens, we're the party for peace.

[tirechewer]

98. I think....

That a lot of them would. I think a lot of older people would care more too. One of the most frustrating arguments I get when I speak out against the war is that it's somehow all right because it is a all "volunteer" army.

It's kind of like a lot of people feel that volunteers deserve whatever happens to them and that the fact that they volunteered somehow makes everything more acceptable. There are a lot of arguments against volunteers as hamburger, but I think people tend to react more quickly if something hits close to home for them.

If you are facing the sure and certain prospect that you might go to war next, or that someone related to you might be the one to go next whether they want to or not, it helps to add a layer of urgency that I think is missing now. To many people events do not seem real until they are actually touched by them.

[wisteria]

101. Absolutely, especially those young Republican punks who think

it's OK for every one else to go fight this war except for them, because they are to busy making money off this war, the high pharmaceutical costs and their investments in oil.

[pnwmom]

104. So what message are you sending to people like me? "Sorry, but we're

going to sacrifice your son in order to shake up the complacent Republican parents."

[windy252]

107. I'm young, but already care.

I sometimes wonder if a draft would move that stubborn 35%.

[pnwmom]

111. I doubt it. There's a good percent of the population that never

accepted what a disaster Vietnam was. (Many of them are running the govt. now.) You'll probably never get to that 35% or so core of true believers.