Only 25% of the kids at the average high school could join the Army?

[Vickers]

There is a guy on C-SPAN named Lt. Gen. Thomas Metz, used to be the Iraqi Multinational (snicker) Corps Commander.

He said something like, "Do you realize that only 25% of the kids at the average high school would even be ELIGIBLE to join the Army? We have high standards and are the elite" etc. etc.

This seems like bullshit to me. Even when I went in, the only things that would keep you out would be a REALLY bad arrest record. Even drug use was waived as long as it had been some time since you last used.

I think he is monkeying with the numbers, like TECHNICALLY 15 and 16 year olds can't join, and 17 year olds have to get parent permission.

I mean, I know they have dropped the standards on just about everything, ASVAB scores, weight limits, etc.

What a lying sack of shit.

[nickgutierrez]

1. Yeah, I'm sure that's what he means.

You have to be at least 17 to sign up. That's higher than 16, right? Well?

[slide to the left]

2. yeah,

only 1/4 are in grade 12, and grade 12 is when you turn 18.

[LostInAnomie]

3. Yeah, it is carefully crafted semantics...

... and it is disingenuous bullshit. It is amazing what liars can do with statistics.

He should have just went all out and said "Less than 1/12 of all people in public education can join the military."

[MADem]

4. You got it in ONE!!!!!

25% of any high school can join the Army--the entire fucking Senior CLASS!!!!! The percentage of non-high school grads they take is getting larger by the day, but still a small percentage of the total. These kids have to do well on the ASVAB...so, if you cull out the morbidly obese kids in the senior class, the ones in wheelchairs or with other disabilities, you can grab up a few juniors who meet the age requirements and do well on the ASVAB.

There's yer 25%!!!!!

[TlalocW]

5. Oh, yeah... Real elite

The one guy in my small farming community high school who was gung-ho for the military weighed 125 pounds sopping wet, was dumber than a box of hammers, and had mental problems. He hated my guts because I was a liberal and shrugged off one of his punches (he hauled off and hit me for no reason) like it was nothing. He tried to join the marines and couldn't make it so went to the army, who snatched him right up, because he wanted to play with guns.

Years later, a friend and I ran into him. He had been dishonorably discharged and was working as a security guard at a grocery store. According to him:

1. There are hidden garbage chutes every 25 feet or so along the inner wall of the Pentagon that lead to the furnace so if someone needed killing, you could shiv them and then throw their body into the chute before someone came out into the hall. If that were true, everyone would be walking sideways with their backs up against the outer wall.
2. He could kill a man with a business card.
3. He was discharged for trying to run his CO over with a truck (that one I could believe)
4. Most unbelievable story though was that he had somehow wrangled a job as Castro's bodyguard (uh, why would Fidel hire a non-Spanish speaking US army private to be a bodyguard), and he was supposed to assassinate him.

It wasn't the lies that hurt us so bad, but his believing that we were as stupid as he. :)

TlalocW

[Kailassa]

6. Killing a man with a business card is simple.

... Just shoot any guy in a suit.

As for the hidden garbage chutes, can't you just imagine a bunch of fed-up guys putting that one over him?

And threatening to throw him down one if he didn't buy them a can of striped paint.

[TlalocW]

8. Or a left handed monkey wrench

Etc.

Yeah, it very well could have been other guys putting one over on him although I wouldn't put it past him just lying.

TlalocW

[Carni]

21. You should have asked him what his freeper screen name is!

Damn! You missed a prime opportunity! LOL

[Coastie for Truth]

7. More likely physical

Excess "body mass index"
Diabetes
High blood pressure
Etc.

Back during conscription, if you went to a good internist at a good group, they could go through the DOD Medical Regs and get you a "4F" (absolutely physically unqualified) or a "1Y" (only qualified for limited duty or only qualified in the event a real emergency).

My doc explained "1Y" as being prospective - that is, did you have clinically detectable "insulin resistance" that could blossom into Type II diabetes 20 years from now if it went untreated, or a trick knee that could develop into disabling arthritis in 20 years if left untreated, or early childhood asthma - now asymptomatic - but with some lesions - that could develop into emphysema in 20 years. The other side of "1Y" - if you had 20/400 astigmatism corrected to 20/40 -- but you had a PhD.

Lots of guys got 1Y's - if they had a good diagnostician.

Added on edit - My guess is that in a typical high school graduating class, a large fraction of the kids have clinically detectable "insulin resistance" that could blossom into Type II diabetes 20 years from now if it went untreated - and if they don't exercise, slim down, and watch their diet.

[zbdent]

9. Sounds about right

25 percent are seniors
25 percent are juniors
25 percent are sophomores
and
25 percent are freshmen . . .

[woo me with science]

19. lol. good point. nt

[Neil Lisst]

10. shell and pea game with the stats

Only the 18 year olds can join without parental consent. There are 4 grades in high school, so only 25% are eligible.

Of course, if they drop out, they're still eligible.

In fact, they can be foreign citizens who don't speak English. Really. Do you have a pulse? Are you not gay? You're in!!

[stevekatz]

11. I'm so tired

Of seeing such broad based hating of the US Military,
Get over yourselves, all of you. The military is a tool, it's a question of who wields it.

And yes, they are standards for joining the military, even the army.
There are height, weight, medical, sexual and criminal backrounds that keep --alot-- of people out.

And yes, dumbass people get in often enouph, but most of those are weaded out in training.

This is coming from an active duty Staff Sergeant in the Air Force, who now has two degrees and has been all over the world. The democratic party can not be the party that hates the military as an entity, and anyone who reads this message board on a regular basis would have to conclude that.

Get over yourselves!

[Vickers]

12. I don't hate the military, pal...I am a veteran.

I hate the fact that there is a military officer lying his ass off on TV.

If you think that there are "height, weight, medical, sexual and criminal backrounds that keep --alot-- of people out" and that figure is anywhere near 75%, then you are delusional.

This guy was monkeying with the numbers, and I am merely pointing it out.

Thanks for serving, btw.

[stevekatz]

13. I wonder

I dont know if 25% is accurate or not,

But I do wonder,,

What % of high school seniors can read and write
What % of high school seniors would pop positive on a drug test
What % of high school seniors have diabetes
What % of high school seniors have other debilitating medical conditions
What % of high sehool seniors would meet the wieght requirements
What % of high school seniors have criminal backrounds
What % of high school seniors are homesexual (I dont make the rules, don't hate on me)
What % of high school seniors are pregnant or are sole guardian of a child (You can't join the Air Force if this is the case)

Anyone know the answer to these?

[manic expression]

15. OK

first, the statement was about high schools in general, counting the entire population.

About your questions, I think I can provide some answers.

Most HS seniors are literate, and it would be improbable in the extreme for a person to get to 12th grade without being able to read and write efficiently.

Many HS seniors may do drugs, but if one were to join the military, I don't think they would continue doing drugs up to their signing up.

Not many HS seniors have diabetes, it isn't a real widespread condition.

Not many HS seniors have other debilitating medical conditions.

Most would meet weight requirements, but (IIRC) those who would not would not be turned away automatically.

HS seniors do not generally have criminal backgrounds, and their criminal records are sealed upon turning 18.

Homosexuals can join the military, the only problem is if it gets out.

Well, I can tell you with high certainty that about half of all HS seniors are not pregnant, nor will they ever be. Moreover, the percentage is small for those with sole guardianship of a child (I do believe that a parent of the serviceperson could assume guardianship).

[Coastie for Truth]

16. You need to do some serious research:

Not many HS seniors have diabetes, it isn't a real widespread condition.

Asymptomatic, but elevated glucose and measurable "Glucose Resistance" is at epidemic levels. And it can become symptomatic"early in life"

Not many HS seniors have other debilitating medical conditions.

Doesn't have to be much to be "disqualifying" -- which is much lower standard then "debilitating." My son had a "completely healed" anterior cruciate ligament - and the Air Force turned him down.

Most would meet weight requirements, but (IIRC) those who would not would not be turned away automatically.

You would be surprised. But they take them and put them in a pre-boot camp to lose weight.

[manic expression]

18. I didn't do any research,

But I'll take what I got.

You're probably right. Just a question, would asymptomatic diabetes turn someone away?

The Air Force might turn one person down, but would all branches? I'm not so sure.

Yes, that was what I was referring to. They take those who don't meet requirements and get them up to those standards. The point is that most people would be in uniform after that process, and they would not be turned away.

Seems like a lack of knowledge on diabetes is the only thing I got wrong. Not too bad.

[manic expression]

14. What, exactly,

did that have to do with what we're talking about? This thread has been about how a high-ranking military officer said something completely ridiculous to try to paint the US Military's restrictions on joining as "elite". That statement was, in fact, preposterous and ludicrous and deserving of criticism.

There are physical standards, but I am quite sure that the military rejects few of those who do not meet them outright (IIRC, they are usually put into programs to help get them up to those standards, and are kept to the commitments they signed off on). And even if you include those, that does nothing to make the statement that "Only 25% of High School students can join the military" any less foolish.

HOW, in any way, does that remotely express "broad based hatred of the US Military"????? I'll give you a hint: It doesn't.

If you want to talk about criticism of the military's action in war, especially in Iraq, that is a whole different story. However, let me tell you that most people on this forum (as in the vast majority) support the troops. More importantly, even more people on this forum do not want them put into danger, or kept there, for no reason whatsoever. The Republican party is the party that cares not when soldiers get their faces blown off by IED's, or when so many young men and women are crippled for life (physically and mentally); the people on this forum, however, do. When it comes to the US Military's participation in terrible actions, many people on this forum object to that in the highest degree, but that has no connection with any sort of negative feeling toward the US Military. Does that clear things up for you, or should I continue?

[woo me with science]

17. Don't forget that psychiatric treatment

can rule you out, too, and more and more kids these days have psych. diagnoses and medication treatment histories.

[noonwitch]

20. Then why did they take so many of my delinquent wards with GEDs?

Not that I have any problem with them taking the kids. This was a while back, before they allegedly loosened their standards, and most of my kids were wards for petty crimes (minor in possession of alcohol, possession of small amounts of marijuana, etc.). And, every once in a while, they would find a genius in that underachiever, someone whose skills weren't otherwise recognized. For kids who have been in a reformatory setting, sometimes going right into the military is the best option because of the regimental daily life. When they finish their tour, they are older, more mature and better organized, so they are less likely to fall back on their previous misbehavior.

A recruiter called me once about one of them, a kid with excellent burglarly skills. He wanted to know if I thought the kid would do well in special forces. This was a very smart kid with a screwed up family, who would have just dragged him down if he'd stuck around. And, just for the record, our program would have paid for him to go to college, so the Army wasn't his only option. It was the one he wanted.