IL 6th CD a CLEAR IDEOLOGICAL CHOICE between Duckworth & Roskam

[wndycty]

There has been a lot of talk, some of it sour grapes, some of misinformation, about Tammy Duckworth and how she is no different than her Republican opponent. In reading the article below you will see there is a huge difference. I understand it was an emotional primary and I understand that Cegelis has her passionate supporters who need time to deal with her loss, but that is no excuse for spreading lies about Duckworth and where she stands. She might not be as "progressive" Cegelis supporters want her to be, but as you can see on many key issues she will uphold Democratic values.

Also many of the DUers who feel that Duckworth is not progressive enough come from places like Alaska, Arizona, Florida, Massachusetts and Texas, not Illinois or more specifically the 6th CD of the state. This is in important issue to point out because I would dare say many of them do not know or appreciate the political demographics of the district. All politics are local and while I might be to the left of Duckworth I believe she is more in tune with the majority of voters in the 6th CD than either Cegelis or Roskam. Cegelis has significant support in Democrat circles in the district, but I question whether or not she can convince the undecideds and moderate Republicans to vote for her. The district is becoming more and more progressive but its doubtful that it would go from Henry Hyde to Christine Cegelis overnight.

This is an important race that has and will continue to attract national attention, I encourage all DUers to consider helping turning Henry Hyde's seat blue. It was a hard fought primary, let the healing begin and the truth about Duckworth's positions float to the top. Like it or not she is Democrat running against a Republican in November.

Duckworth versus Roskam a clear-cut clash

BY MARNI PYKE
Daily Herald Staff Writer
Updated 12:50 p.m.

Posted Wednesday, March 22, 2006

The November election to succeed retiring Republican Congressman Henry Hyde will feature a clear ideological choice for voters choosing between Democrat Tammy Duckworth and Republican Peter Roskam.

The two candidates disagree on all of the top issues in what’s widely expected to be one of the most closely-watched and expensive con-gressional races nationally this fall.
-snip-

On a trio of hot-button social issues, there’s also no agree-ment. Roskam opposes abortion rights, gun control and civil unions for gays and lesbian couples. Duckworth supports all three.

With talk of jobs and the economy destined to dominate, Roskam argues Bush’s tax cuts “absolutely” all need to be made perma-nent.

Duckworth said funding health care and education is more important than giving “$100,000 back to people making over $1 million a year.”
-snip-

http://www.dailyherald.com/special/election/ele_story.asp?id=169469#

[terrya]

1. Henry Hyde represented the 6th for what, 20 years?

I know the demographics of the 6th reasonably well. It's a fairly Republican district. DuPage county isn't exactly a hotbed of liberalism.

I'm solidly behind Tammy Duckworth. Thank you for posting her positions on some critical issues. She's a candidate worthy of our support. It would be a huge victory if we could pick this seat up in November.

[acmejack]

3. I think you need to calm your rhetoric about people spreading "lies"

That is not appropriate at all, IMHO. Perhaps you might consider phrasing your missives more judiciously in the future. No one is going to rush out and vote for a republican for god's sake.

If you are attempting to make peace and sooth frayed feelings, I suggest calling people liars is not conducive to accomplishing this. However, if your intention was to aggravate every progressive on this board, I withdraw this comment and offer my apology to you for interfering in your thread.

[wndycty]

4. Say what? Saying that Duckworth is anti-choice, pro-war and supports. . .

. . .Bush's tax cuts are lies. What is the motivation of any so-called Democrat to continue to spread lies about Duckworth? When people lie and make shit up you call it out.

I have nothing but respect for people who prefer Cegelis, but when people make shit up its going to get called out!

[acmejack]

5. I say you are painting with a mighty broad brush!

When "people" make shit up you should call "them" out, but labeling "everyone" is just flat fucked up, and you damn well know it! I've seen more than enough of your posts to know that you are certainly intelligent enough to be aware of this fact!

[wndycty]

7. Defend the lies. . .

. . .there is no excuse. So I prefer candidate A over candidate B, but don't make shit up. This article proves that a ton of shit said about Duckworth were lies. Lies are evil. How the hell am I labeling everyone? Anyone who says that Duckworth is pro-war, for Bush's tax cut's and pro-life is either lying or misinformed, right? There is no broad brush here and you know it. This criticism is only directed at those who are lying or misinformed.

[acmejack]

9. sure you're absolutely right

everyone else has no point at all and there is no reason to try to make a case to contrary here. You win. We're all liars and misinformed, Ms. Duckworth is for whatever you want her to be for.

[wndycty]

10. Oh please no one is saying that!

You can disagree with Duckworth all you want, just don't make shit up and A LOT OF SHIT SAID ABOUT HER was made up.

There are compelling reasons to support Cegelis over Duckworth but no reasons to lie. There is a huge difference.

[acmejack]

17. I need to go soak my head.

I will talk when I am chilled. In the interim I will state that I will support Ms. Duckworth to the Nth degree, she is indeed a fine candidate and a terrific person to boot. In fact, I am very sorry she ever got caught cross-ways in this whole sorry affair, it is another thing I deeply resent-that they did that to her, Christine, and us.

My quarrel is not with her supporters or Tammy, it lies with others located in the Beltway & I will be well served to keep that in mind. I understand completely what you are trying to say.

[Inland]

6. "Sooth frayed feelings". I don't think that can be done w/out the OP.

I'm not sure what frayed the feelings of Cegelis supporters other than the contest itself. It was their rhetoric that went beyond the appropriate bounds and could have been more judicious.

The problem with the "frayed feelings" of the Cegelis camp is that they are in part based on half-believing it's own ideological hype. If those feelings and hype aren't discarded, they will remain: they can't be "soothed". For example, you say that nobody is going to vote for a republican. Yet, the hype was that Duckworth might as well be a republican, and the rhetorical question was, why vote for someone who is going to vote republcian on major issues? The danger is apparent. All one can do is as the OP did, show that the premise isn't true. It never should have been said, much less be "soothed".

Frayed feelings are going to be soothed by realizing they are based on the heat of battle and discarding them.

[wndycty]

8. Thank you

:kick:

[Inland]

2. I'd like the Cegalis supporters to take a few days off and get some sleep.

Clearly, exhaustion got a township democratic party chairman to say stupid ass shit like this publically to a republican newspaper like the Trib:

"York Township Democratic Party Chairman Doug Cole said the 40 or more precinct committeemen in his township who supported Cegelis or Scott may vote for Duckworth in the fall because 'we can't stand Roskam,' but they're unlikely to work for her campaign."

Hey, Chairman Cole, thanks for drumming up support for the general by floating that prediction.

[madfloridian]

19. You what?? You really said that?

I am going to share this statement with some friends there who worked hard for Cegelis.

You want Cegelis supporters to take time off just after you insulted them?

[Inland]

21. I'm thinking you misread my post.

I didn't insult "Cegelis supporters." I insulted a party chairman who opened his trap with a prediction.

My suggestion is that people take a minute and calm down rather than peppering me with question marks and making trouble.

[madfloridian]

22. No, I don't think I misread you at all.

What that chairman said is going on all over the country. You may not be aware of the fact. I am not advocating for it in general, but that is what we are doing for Nelson in Florida. We will vote for him, but we will not work for him nor will we donate to him.

He probably is not noticing, as he has so much money anyway.

The primaries are the only way for us to have a voice in this party. When the party leaders interfere in races where they don't need to do so....then sometimes there might be consequences.

I have no idea what people there will do. I am hearing that the arrogance of the leaders angered a lot of people. I feel that everyone needs to live with the consequences of their actions when they ignore ordinary people.

I don't live there. Good luck to you guys.

[wndycty]

23. Speaking of the chairman. . .

I agree with Lynn Sweet on this one, Howard Dean can play a role in healing the divisions this race created:

Here's what needs to happen, and it's more than having all of the Democrats show up at Saturday's DuPage Dems post-primary breakfast in Oakbrook Terrace.

*Cegelis, even if she turns it down, needs to be asked to be part of the Duckworth operation.

*Emanuel, whose presence in the race touched a raw nerve among Cegelis supporters, needs to reach out to them. Durbin and Obama also ought to be mending fences.

*And there is one person who really could help. That's Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean. It was his people-powered, grass-roots, Internet-based, anti-war 2004 presidential campaign that gave birth to the movement that yielded Cegelis 40.4 percent of the vote.
-snip-

http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2006/03/duckworth_faces_challenge_to_u.html#more

[madfloridian]

25. I think the 3 who masterminded this should mend fences.

I don't think Howard Dean or DFA have any fences to mend.

That was a nice article by Lynn Sweet, and I agree with her that the party leaders need to make peace.

Considering they have done and are doing this to about 5 other DFA related candidates....the chairman is best out of this.

[wndycty]

28. Isn't the chairman supposed to be a leader. . .

. . .part of being a leader is LEADING. Bringing the two side togethers and winning in November. If Chairman Dean can bring peace and win the district for the Democrats why should he sit on the sidelines?

[madfloridian]

30. Obama, Durbin, and Rahm started this. Don't blame Dean for this.

This is really weird. He gets blamed here for a lot of things, but that is strange.

He probably will, though. Make peace, that is. I notice the post at DFA was pretty powerful yesterday, though. Not apologetic at all.

I called all 3 offices yesterday to express my view on this. Will I hear back? Stay tuned.

[wndycty]

31. Oh GROW UP, no one is blaming Dean for this. . .

. . .yeah I said GROW UP, go ahead be offended, alert on me, etc.

Dean did not create this problem IT IS NOT HIS FAULT!!! But as CHAIRMAN it is his responsibility to provide leadership, settle disputes. . .you know WIN ELECTIONS.

Jeeze!

[madfloridian]

41. I don't take your comment seriously enough to be offended.

I seldom ever alert on people, unless maybe an obvious visitor from a right wing site.

I just never ceased to be amazed at how things get twisted here sometimes.

BTW, in case you are interested...Dean made it clear it is his job to get Democrats elected. He further said it is our job to choose the ones we want in the primary.

You might tell that spokesman for Duckworth that his plea:
"I asked Duckworth spokesman Billy Weinberg what their strategy is for engaging estranged Democrats like Major. "By reminding them how high the stakes are," he said. "And how it is a once-in-a-generation opportunity to compete and win in November. And to point out the stark differences."

.....might not quite be enough. Reminding people how high the stakes are pretty well worked in 04. Not sure it will anymore. People are waking up now to just such manipulations.

He might need to sound like the ones on the Cegelis campaign counted, were important, had worthiness...instead of just warning of dire consequences. We have those dire consequences already in our country.

There will continue to be fights for the primaries. This is not a matter of whether Dean steps in or not. This is a matter of treating the people of the party with respect.

I was not going to respond to you on this, but I see you kicked the thread yourself. So I decided to respond. Mr. Weinberg needs to sound more inclusive.

[Inland]

26. Yeah, you're really wishing us luck.

What the chairman said is a prediction based on the feeling of election night where they lost. Nobody expects much rationality or perspective on the night of a loss, or in the heat of a campaign. It's times like that when the losers in the election start talking about "ordinary people being ignored" out of frustration and exhaustion.

They might think differently in a few days unless somebody tries to pretend like there's a matter of great principle involved and makes trouble accompanied by a wish for luck and a wave from a continent away. Either make trouble, or wish Duckworth luck, but don't do both.

[madfloridian]

29. I did not start this thread.

.

[itzamirakul]

11. I live in NYC...

so I don't have voting rights here. Yet we must admit that whomever our state reps are, their policies and ideologies affect all of us. So of course I was interested in which candidate would win the Primary and I am quite disappointed in the result and here is why.

Since Cegelis had done the ground work and won local support I think she deserved the full support of the National Party. Who the Hell gave the National Party that kind of power over what local residents wanted? The fact that she did not get their full support proves to me that the National Party is still run by the nearly-powerless DLC, who have to guts to decide on the direction of the DNC. AND WE LET IT HAPPEN INSTEAD OF BREAKING DLC INTO SMITHEREENS!

If left to the DLC, the entire Democratic Party Leaders would be clones of Joe Lieberman.

The fact that National carried in Ms. Duckworth from the ether and plopped her down as being "more winnable" and then spent money to get her more publicity than Cegelis totally disgusts me and in this case I wouldn't care if Duckworth is defeated by her Republican opposing candidate.

And please don't write to tell me that even the "worst Democrat is better than the best Republican." I don't want to hear it.

The Republicans finally grabbed power by turning to their extremeist right-wingers. What makes Democrats think they will win by courting the mythical Middle-roaders? The media nor the Conservatives and most important, the Democratic Leadership refuses to acknowledge just HOW MANY PROGRESSIVE LEFT-WINGERS are out there and OUTRAGED over being ignored.

[wndycty]

14. Please explain to me how Duckworth would be the "worst Democrat"

:kick:

[Inland]

15. The OP just TOLD you she's NOT like a republican.

She's not a Lieberman clone, she's not the "worst democrat". Pulling that shit up in this context in order to get people pissed off is idiotic, at best.

She wasn't parachuted in by the DLC. She was backed by Barack Obama, Dick Durbin, and Rahm Emmanuel, who last I knew weren't New Yorkers giving gas about DuPage County politics. Amazingly enough, you don't know who she is going to appeal to--but then again, you don't know anyone in the district, and Duckworth didn't WIN because she's hunting unicorns.

Either help or mind your own business. By the way, in the sense that the results effect everyone, think about how any democrat beats returning a republican from teh sixth helps you. I could talk about it, but apparently somebody doesn't want to hear little things like "subpeona power."

[wndycty]

16. It should be pointed out that Durbin and Obama both

. . .represent the 6th CD as US Senators.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ignacio Upton]

12. Cegelis conceeded?

That sucks. Was the margin close enough for a recount?

[wndycty]

13. 4% was the margin

There is no automatic recount in Illinois, but you can request one for $75,000.00

[mdmc]

18. are there any third party candidates? Does IL allow multiple

party's to endorse the same candidate? What other ballot lines are there in IL?

[Radical Activist]

20. Illinois is one of the worst states for third parties.

The laws are very restrictive. Signature gathering for third parties hasn't started yet and the requirements are steep. A candidate can only appear on a ballot line for one party per election. Its highly unlikely that the Greens will be able to field a candidate, but I guess there's a chance they could if they want to ensure the district stays Republican.

[Inland]

27. It's never to late to ensure a democratic loss! nt

[mdmc]

33. In NY a candidate can hold three party lines

:kick:

[wndycty]

34. Not in Illinois

:kick:

[Radical Activist]

40. I think NY

has the most 3rd-party friendly laws I've seen for any state. I wish more states were like that.

[KharmaTrain]

24. Thank You For Posting This

Lots of "experts" in the 6th district seemed to appear in the final hours of this campaign and lots of blanket assumptions and petty sniping occured. It's sad since this article...in what was once a bastion GOOP newspaper explains the real decisions the voters in this area have to choose from.

The Duckworth/Cegelis campaign wasn't fought in some safe blue area, but in an area in transition...what I call purple...and specifically a Congressional district that hasn't seen Democratic representation. Hopefully in a couple years, this district will be a solid blue one and the ideological battles as to whose the "real progressive" or whatever qualifier one wants to place on a candidate can be done in a different light.

In 2004 the GOOP lost the 8th District...the only loss they suffered in the House that year and they're not only targeting lots of money to win the 6th but also take back the 8th...Melissa Bean. The GOOPs now have two wealthy, self-funding candidates and are going to do everything they can to make sure there's not a Democratic embarassment on the doorstep of Gym Teach Denny. Crashcart snuck into town last week to raise money...I expect the first commercials and attacks on both Bean and Duckworth to start real soon.

Finally...to those who cry how it's money that wins elections and not principles and/or issues. Sadly it's true...and one that Progressives have to learn to master rather than curse the darkness. Let's call it putting your money where your mouth is...there's a growing netroots movement that is changing the face of both politics and the Democratic party. It's not going to happen overnight and sitting in an ivory tower will only keep you outside of all the action and changes.

Peace...

[DinahMoeHum]

32. Duckworth damn well better win this seat in November. . .

although I'm another outsider here (I'm from New York), I didn't like it that Rahm Emmanuel and the DCCC sent in their cuckoo bird to push Cegelis out of the nest.

Well, the ball is now in the DCCC court. They damn well better come through and win this seat in 2006. Or come 2008, if Cegelis wants to run again for a 3rd time, the Beltway Dems better get the fuck out of the way and STAY the fuck out of the way.

:kick:

[dogman]

35. A sobering reminder for all.

While we have seen a lot of discussion about Cegelis/Duckworth, keep in mind the facts. The GOP candidate received around 48,000 votes while the three Dems combined were at about 32,000. That gives the Dems about 40% of the vote in a hotly contested Dem Primary. While Cegelis received around 44% against Hyde, she had Kerry's coat tails. He received around 47%. There was a large GOP turnout because of the Governor's race with a Candidate to be chosen to run against the Dem incumbent. To say that Duckworth must win, or that she must adopt the Progressive agenda is ignoring the facts on the ground. Cheney was here raising funds for Roskam even though he had no Primary opponent. Roskam is a protege of DeLay. This will likely be one of the top ten battles as covered by the media.

[wndycty]

36. Exactly, I fear that many who comment on this race don't understand . . .

. . .the district, it can be won, but its going to take work. My understanding is that given the choice between someone on the far right and someone on the far left the district will choose far right, however given the choice of far right and moderate Democrat, a moderate Democrat has a very strong chance.

[Clarkie1]

37. Very well said. Thank you for this post. n/t

[wndycty]

39. Kick

:kick: