Cigarette Tax...

[nickshepDEM]

Poll question: Cigarette Tax...

In your opinion, how much should one pack of cigarettes be taxed?

[sheelz]

1. Simple-

Tax cigarettes like most products (except food).

edit to add: except food

[kster]

2. The same amount everything else is taxed

why put the heavy tax burden on the smokers, never did make any sense to me there are so many other things that are bad for you that they don't tax the hell out of but if your a smoker "hold on to your hat" if they go up any farther they will start another bootleg operation in America. Because the price won't stop people from buying them. My two cents , "Yes I am a smoker"

[nickshepDEM]

3. I guess the theory goes like this...

Tax cig's higher and people will buy less or at least think before they buy.

[TechBear_Seattle]

4. Why? Simple

Call it a useage tax (or fee, if you'd prefer) to cover the cost of smoking related illnesses such as lung cancer, emphysema, and cardio-vascular disease which the taxpayers must pick up, seeing as very few Americans nowadays have full medical coverage.

[sheelz]

5. Simple because It should be

taxed at state and local rates just like most other products. I'm not asking anybody to pick up any tab.

[loyalsister]

13. And yet they do

When catastrophic diseases hit the uninsured, if their health care is not paid for by disability and medicaid, it will be funded through hospital subsidy. There is a large cross section of smokers who do become a tax burden.

[sheelz]

16. A catastrophic auto accident

could do the same.

[loyalsister]

18. Thus speeding tickets

similar idea.

[sheelz]

19. My brother was hit by a car 25 years ago and has

a brain injury. No speeding ticket was issued.

[napi21]

6. Why do you say the taxpayers pick up the tab?

I suspect, in most cases, the insurance conpamies pick up the tab. But, in the end, they probably come out even or even spending less because the smokers die younger, and quicker than with most other illnesses.

The suggestion of cigarette taxes going to offset the cost of caused illnesses is just not the way it works either. When that tax is collected, it goes right into the general fund.

[cherokeeprogressive]

15. Wow. I had no idea that every smoker was covered by health insurance.

cool!

[napi21]

21. I didn't say EVERY one, but most are.

If you're concerned about the cost of the uninsured to taxpayers, you need to worry about a whole lot more than smokers!

[TechBear_Seattle]

22. Most are not covered by insurance

The last study I remember seeing stated that only about 42% of working Americans are covered by private insurance, mostly through employer provided policies. When you factor in the unemployed, retired and children, only 22% -- one in five -- Americans are covered by private insurance.

Nationally, the average price of a pack of cigarettes in 2004 (the latest data I could find) was $3.72, including taxes; that one pack cost $8.61 in medical expenses and lost productivity. In Washington State, smoking burdens the state with more than $1.5 billion each year.

References:
http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/datahighlights/page6.htm
http://ctcinfo.org/policy/fs/wa-ctcfacts.PDF
http://www.doh.wa.gov/Publicat/2005_news/05-131.htm

[CAG]

24. Either way, we all pick up the tab, whether its higher insurance premiums

or higher taxes.

Many states have the taxes go to certain earmarks for healthcare funding. And even if it goes into a general fund, so be it. It will still partially offset my huge taxes to take care of the medical costs associated with people directly inhaling chemicals into their lungs.

[Jayhawk Lib]

7. We are all terminal

Some will go sooner than others. Dieing is generally not cheap. Look at all of the people in care homes who never smoked. Look at all of the heart problems of people that have never smoked.

It looks like a wash whether you smoke and go early or hang on longer and draw social security and need extended care for years.

All things considered smoking may not be so costly after all.

[kster]

9. -

[kster]

8. Fine,does my family get

a full refund from the extra tax that I paid for cigs if I die from something unrelated to my cig smoking?

[kster]

12. I'm just curious should myself and my family

start saving cig purchase receipts, according to you We are paying an insurance tax to protect all other taxpayers from our bad habit, should we die of a tobacco related problem

BUT WHAT IF I DON'T die of a cig related problem is my family not entitled to get my insurance tax back?

[MrSlayer]

10. There already is a huge bootleg operation in New York City.

The prices up there are so ludicrous it had to happen. I say more power to the bootleggers.

[sheelz]

11. Seneca Nation

here in western NY is pissed at Eliot Spitzer. They have to raised prices by $5.00 per carton. for an anti-Spitzer campaign fund. What a mess!

http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20060319/1049488.asp

[FatDave]

14. A good way to beat the taxes (and do other good stuff)

For about 4 years now I've made my own cigarettes. Not roll my own mind you, make my own. They sell empty tubes (in full-flavor and light varieties) that are perfectly cylindrical, with filter attached. Basically exactly like a cigarette with no tobacco in it. Then you use an injecting machine (top of the line model costs less that $50) to fill the tube. Basically you stick the tube on the injector, stuff some tobacco into a slot, pull a lever, and you've got an awesome home-made cigarette.

Sounds like a lot of trouble? Maybe, but not too much. Once you get used to it you can make 20 cigarettes in under five minutes, which is probably what it would take to drive down to the corner and buy a pack. But even with the minor hassle of making them, you get the following benefits:

- Cheaper. I mean way cheaper. I buy 14 ounces of tobacco (that's way better than what's in any packaged brand) for about $18. That's roughly 2 cartons. Tubes cost about $2 for a box of 200 (equivalent to one carton). So for about $22 you get the equivalent of 2 cartons of cigarettes. This is partially because bulk tobaccos are usually taxed at a lower rate, but also just because you're not paying for the manufacturing.

- Better tobacco. I mean way better. I smoke this stuff called Ramback Gold from D & R Tobacco (www.cigarettetobacco.com). It's a 50/50 blend of pure virginia and turkish tobaccos. The turkish might not be for everybody, but you haven't lived until you've smoked pure Virginia. You know how every once in awhile you take a drag and it has that really sweet taste? That's when you hit a piece of Virginia. The commercial cigarettes are full of burley (which is pretty bitter) and filler (sometimes including wood chips). Plus fermaldahyde I've heard. And artificially increased nicotine levels. I'm not trying to imply that making your own is healthier, smoking will kill you regardless. But they taste a lot better. I'm not talking about Top and Bugler here mind you, those are pretty bad, but a little research will lead you to the good stuff.

- Variety. This probably goes along with the point above, but there's an astounding variety of tobaccos out there. Yes, there's an astounding variety of commercial cigarettes, but they all taste pretty much the same. I'm talking different flavors here. I mentioned pure Virginia above, but there's also the halfzwares (kind of thick a nutty taste), some people actually like the burley (not me though), Turkish (awesome in small doses) not to mention all the flavored tobaccos (chocolate, strawberry, peach...)

- Not supporting big tobacco. Most of the good bulk tobaccos come from small companies. The stuff I smoke I buy straight from a farmer in South Carolina. There are a handful of Native American tribes who grow and sell tobacco too. Some brands are still owned by Phillip Morris and RJR (the common stuff like Top & Bugler I think).

- It's more fun. I mean come on, you get to talk about Virginias, halfzwares and Turkish blends!

All that being said, it's not for everybody. Making a really good smoke takes a little practice, and until your results will be hit & miss for a few days. My wife can't stand them. I'll get her Marlboro Lights when I pry them from her black, dead lungs. Other times I've given a cigarette to people and had them say "I can't remember the last time I actually enjoyed a cigarette" or "this is the best cigarette I've ever smoked".

I buy my stuff online, but they sell it all in tobacco shops if you look for it. I've heard this is pretty big in Canada where taxes are even higher.

Anywho, if you're a smoker, you ought to check it out. Lots of info here: http://ryomagazine.com. Hit the "Multimedia" section for an overview of how it works.

[sheelz]

17. Thanks FatDave

I'll will definitely look into this. What flavor does turkish have? Is it stronger? I prefer a stronger cigarette. Any suggestions?

[FatDave]

20. Turkish is hard to describe

It's very mild. You hardly notice it when you inhale, but when you exhale you get this great kind of cinnamony flavor. Not Cinnamon sweet really, kind of like a mild blend of exotic spices maybe. I don't smoke it straight very often, but I think it really adds a lot when blended with other tobaccos.

A lot of smokers don't realize the only difference between a full-flavor cigarette and a light is all in the paper. Lights have perforations in the paper around the filter (you can see them if you look close) that just let you suck in more air with each drag. Some tobaccos do have a milder taste though, and a lot of brands are labeled as light and full-flavor, but the tube makes the biggest difference. Zig Zag full flavor (in a red pouch or can with the familiar Zig Zag man) is pretty close in flavor to a marlboro or camel, so it's usually a good starting point.

The thing that surprises most people at first is that no matter how strong the cigarette, the home-made ones are usually a lot smoother. They don't give you that sting in the back of your throat. I'm not sure if it's just because it's fresher than what RJR sells you or if it's the lack of additives or what. You can still suck in a mighty cloud of smoke, and you'll get more (and IMO better) flavor than an off-the-shelf smoke, but it will probably go down smoother than what you're used to.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

23. A late kick