Going into Iran. Would the Army Generals resign to save

[caligirl]

the Army from destruction? After watching a local special tv program on Islam tonight my husband and I were talking about the worsening situation in Iraq. The panelists all agreed that Iraq will deteriorate far more.
Then we talked about Iran. Would the Army generals let Bush do this knowing it risked United States National security? Would any generals resign to go public as they should if Bush risks the Army, and therefore our security, in Iran? A war in Iran would destroy the Army, leaving this country in peril. The Army would still exist, but it would be so weak that it could not defend this country.

[Spinzonner]

1. Defend it from what ?

Invasion by Mexico or Canada ?

The American army is an offensive force, not a defensive one.

[caligirl]

4. The Army is a dual purpose force, the marine corps is an offensive

force. But I know a lot of people see the Army as an offensive force. A major component of an island nations's military system is at risk of being rendored incapable of doing its mission in the future what ever that threat is, by being nearly destroyed in Iran. Will the Generals resign over it?

[paul_fromatlanta]

2. Those generals are already gone -war is on the way

The problem is the case that Iran supports terrorism is much much stronger than the case against Iraq ever was. They fund Hezbollah , for example, who has killed more Americans than any other terror group besides Al Quaida. The argument that we would crush the growing drive for real democracy in Iran will likely get lost in fear of Iranian nukes.

I am convinced that the Bush administration has already decided to go to war with Iran.

Kind of ironic, really. I've got to double check but I think Iran has never started a war.

[caligirl]

5. That may be the case, I don't think we have lots of troops there

at this point, maybe small numbers doing some scouting,recon stuff. But the Iraq war hasn't yet put the Army at a point where it can't function. Going to war with Iran would do that. The Generals do take an oath to this country, not Bush. I wonder if the Generals will stand up for the Army, and therefore our security, and stop Bush.

[paul_fromatlanta]

6. I didn't mean the war had started

I only meant the administration is signaling their intent to go to war in the same ways they signaled their plan to go to war with Iraq.

And no I don't think you will see many generals resigning unless they feel the battle plan is foolish. If they objected on principle they had more reason to quit over Iraq.

Those Generals who did resign or were forced out over Iraq were the ones who criticized Rumsfeld battle plan, particularly the number of troops and the lack of exit strategy.

[cactusrose]

13. Bush Inc. has been pushing them out

What a lot of people don't realize is that the Pentagon is firmly under control of chickenhawks. They dictate not only policy but strategy and tactics. Rumsfeld is one of the few members of the administration who served in the military, but he has no combat experience. The problem is, he's not listening to anyone who does. Military leaders who refuse to go along with what Bush Inc. wants or even disagree are forced out and replaced with "yes" men and women. Telling the truth gets people sacked in this administration.

Many of America's best, brightest, and most experienced military leaders - active duty and retired - tried to warn Bush and cronies that Iraq would be a quagmire and not to invade. One retired general even showed the Bush administration what could and has gone wrong:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,786992,00.html

Wake-up call

"If the US and Iraq do go to war, there can only be one winner, can't there? Maybe not. This summer, in a huge rehearsal of just such a conflict - and with retired Lieutenant General Paul Van Riper playing Saddam - the US lost. Julian Borger asks the former marine how he did it"

Friday September 6, 2002

I highly recommend reading and bookmarking this article for future use. Van Riper quickly inflicted heavy casualties on the American side and sunk most of the US fleet by doing things the way a Middle Eastern ruler or terrorist would do them. The Pentagon ordered the war game stopped, ordered the "dead" US soldiers back to life and the sunk US ships refloated, and ordered Van Riper to do things the way a European enemy would do them. The Pentagon also ordered Van Riper to turn off his detection equipment so the US side could invade safely. When Van Riper kept balking, the Pentagon ordered his officers not to obey his commands. This is the way the US side finally was able to win this simulation, and Rumsfeld then announed to the media that the US was more than ready to handle anything encountered in the Middle East.

[Chipper Chat]

3. Has a coup ever been attempted?

Would a new government have to start as a dictatorship? Would it be somewhat gentler that the fate that was unleashed upon Czar Nicholas and his family? Crazy talk I know, but this country is getting more unhinged all the time.

[DLnyc]

7. Not half as crazy as actually invading Iran.

I was thinking the same my self. Shows what point this thing has gotten to.

[unhappycamper]

9. There was a coup attempt in 1932.

Fortunately, there was a Patriot that stopped it. I don't know if we have any Patriots in today's military.

[Tom Rinaldo]

12. There are plenty of real patriots in the Military now

That's why none would think of organizing a coup. This battle has to be won by civilians, that means us. More important than the Fourth Amendment or the entire Bill of Rights is our basic foundation of civilian control over the military. If that ever erodes it would mean that the people who have the most guns would be the ones setting policy. That is not Democracy. There was no talk of a coup under Carter or Clinton, and there won't be one under Bush. Our military is firmly committed to the principle that the President of the United States is the Commander in Chief. The attempt to organize a coup in 1932 was serious, but it originated with civilians and it is no coincidence that it was an honorable military man who stopped it.

This thread is all over the map. With some people almost wanting a coup and others warning against one. It will take more than three more years of Bush in power to erode the concept of civilian control over our military. It could happen some day I suppose if the Right wing organizes long and hard enough to identify themselves with the military and Democrats against it, but every military officer I have ever met is crystal clear that their job is to uphold the American Constitution.

And if the United States attacks Iran it will be primarily by Air along with some special forces.

[paul_fromatlanta]

15. thanks for that link - very educational

[MessiahRp]

8. George W. Bush

and his crew could draw stick figure cartoons on a piece of paper and annoint them Generals for all he cares. If he wants war, he's going to go do it. We should all know right now that war planning and leadership on the ground are completely useless to him anyway.

Rp

[mrgorth]

10. As much as I respect the military

Bush will just oust any Zinni's he has to. There will be no shortage of brass who choose more war.

[Nomen Tuum]

11. No and I present this as evidence

Since they belong to this organization, they won't

http://www.forceministries.com

This is what happens when religious extremism infects every aspect of society.

[stevekatz]

14. we'll never

invade Iran in the same sense as Iraq, so it's a mute point