Forget "abortion." Immigration is the new wedge issue that the

[cantstandbush]

Rethugs are going to use through 2008 and the deck is stacked for them to win because they will appear to be on the side the American worker by being against amnesty. If the Dems can't re-frame the issue to their advantage forget Dems in government until 2012...and then it won't matter because it will all be over according to the Mayan calendar.

[wakeme2008]

1. IMHO for once I think the Dems should side with BUSH on this

and go with the guest worker program....

that one program will spilt the Repug party.... IMHO we should NOT have a third option.....

[formernaderite]

5. There is NO such thing as an illegal Human Being

I am disgusted by the posturing of both the republicans and democrats on this issue. The fact is most americans WILL NOT engage in the type of employment these women and men from south america do. I know plenty of companies that advertise labor intensive construction jobs that start you out at the menial level that I used to do while in college.
However nobody BORN here wants to dig holes or trenches. So you can advertise in the paper, hold job fairs in the city and no one shows up for work but Jose and his newly arrived buddy. Companies I have done subcontract work for, pay between 10 and 15 dollars for this type of work. Perfect for a high school student, or a strong young person. Not even the children of these immigrants want to do this work. So what do you propose we do? These people are just looking to improve their lot in life. Give me a break....let them in, any more talk of border fences and this will be a police state.

[LuckyLib]

2. You're right. And isn't it interesting that all of this smoke about

immigration is on the horizon now???? How convenient! Keeping our eye off the incompetence and corruption in Washington.

[Warpy]

3. Sure they can. They can reframe it in terms of WAGES

and how the Repugs always want to bring in lots of immigrants to HOLD WAGES DOWN.

87% if people in a recent Zogby survey said wages need to rise. Framing this as another attempt by the fat cats to bring in "guest workers" to hold the wages of American citizens down is where the wedge is.

Any Democrat who doesn't campaign on wages is a fool.

[populistdriven]

4. Bush knows this so he frames these jobs as "Onion Pluckers" (blatant lie)

[guidod]

6. I disagree,

There is a very large Latino population in this Country who are in favor of Amnesty, especially in Texas, Arizona and California. Those three states carry a lot of strength when it comes to immigration, and also have a lot of elector college votes. Here in Los Angeles there is supposed to be a march of about 250,000 people in favor of looser immigration laws. I don't think it will be that easy for the repugs to form any type of platform.

I also will never give up on helping women in having the freedom of choice. Remember, it's not about abortion it's about choice.

[JeffR]

7. Framing the issue is going to be a struggle for Dems

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x747452

[ljm2002]

8. And as per usual...

...the Democratic party is not smart enough, or committed enough to its base, to figure out how to wedge it right back in the Republicans' faces.

It's unethical business owners and agribusiness who hire illegals to work for them so they can increase their margins. So let's crack down on that side of it. Let's crack down on those who hire immigrants, put the burden on them to prove that the people they hire are here working legally; let's make sure the jobs are available to citizens as well as non-citizens; and let's make sure that everyone is paid legal minimum wage.

And before you get all bent out of shape re: immigrant bashing, that is not my goal here. My goal is merely to point out that if you see a wedge issue coming, you've got to sharpen and drive your own wedge.

This cannot be framed as an issue where the lowest paid workers are getting shafted by even lower paid, more desperate workers -- that frame wins for Republicans, who pit worker against worker. Rather, frame it as honest, above board, responsible business people being shafted by cutthroat, underhanded operators who exploit vulnerable workers and undercut businesses that operate by the rules; in the process the honest business people are being driven out of business and wages for everyone are driven down.

Okay I'm not a political strategist -- maybe there is a better take on this. But somehow I just know that there could be a frame that works to our advantage here. Unfortunately the DLC is so beholden to the corporations that they will generally toe the line and refuse to step on the toes of corporate interests. Fortunately, there is a huge largely untapped alternative funding source, as shown by Moveon.org and Howard Dean and the DNC: the Internet and its ability to reach individuals who will put their money where their mouth is.

We need to harness it and we need to frame these issues NOW.

[Lexingtonian]

9. oh, please, cut the defeatism

Republicans are split 40/60, very much on moderate vs conservative lines, on this hardcore approach to immigration and 'illegals'. Democrats are split 20/80, conservatives vs moderates and liberals. Since conservative Democrats don't vote Democratic in federal elections, national Democrats in effect lose no votes by being against this bill. They lose their voters by not siding against it.

So the split that actually affects votes is moderate Republicans against hardline Republicans. Immigration is in fact a Republican wedge issue- the rich and relatively tolerant money-centered suburban moderates vs. the desperate, angry, poor/impoverishing blue collar ones.

On banning abortion a la South Dakota, the Pew poll says selfidentifying Democrats are against it 65/30, Indies are against it 65/30, moderate Republicans are against it 65/30. Hardline conservative Republicans are the other way, 65% in favor of banning. and 30% against.

So in abortion, there is a 65/30 national consensus of sorts around the status quo (i.e. serious personal difficulty obtaining abortions and great social pressure to use contraceptives) for about 2/3 or 3/4 of the electorate, and- if you've been following the pollings- hardening and widening of this consensus during this past year. Among this large portion of the electorate I have, after years of following the matter, come to the conclusion that the championing of a ban by those 30% of it is a front more than a design or commitment. The real outlier bloc in the issue is the hardline conservative Republicans, who really mean to implement a ban and have little interest in the real consequences- it's all about trying to recreate an idealized way of life of the Past for them.

I believe abortion is also now evolving into an issue where the wedge of political consequence is now, or shortly will fully be, between moderate and conservative Republicans. I'm going to be watching what they do as the federal lawsuit against the SD law goes through the courts very closely. I think the outcome will surprise people.