Sensenbrenner Awakens A Sleeping Giant

[ProSense]

Sensenbrenner Awakens A Sleeping Giant

I have just returned from the largest, most energized demonstration I have ever witnessed in my life. Over 500,000 people filled the streets of downtown Los Angeles to march against HR 4437, a bill authored by Republican Rep. James Sensenbrenner (heir to the Kotex fortune) which would turn 11 million undocumented immigrants into felons, punish anyone guilty of providing them assistance, and construct an iron wall between the US and Mexico.

The rally reached a crescendo as thousands of demonstrators lined the walls and bridges above the 101 freeway waving flags and cheering while an endless parade of cars and trucks blasted their horns in support. It was the sound of a sleeping giant awakening.

In passing HR 4437 and whatever draconian and utterly counter-productive bill emerges from the Senate, the congressional Republicans have become their party's worst enemy. They have cast their white, Southern base in conflict with the Latino constituency the RNC and the Bush White House realize they must win over if they are ever to achieve a so-called "Republican majority."

more...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/max-blumenthal/sensenbrenner-awakens-a-s_b_17894.html

[rodeodance]

1. good sign: Repulicans hate Latinoes.

[Placebo]

2. Utter bullshit.

These people are breaking the law and, I say, DEPORT THEM ALL.

And penalize those who hire them.

What's the point of having borders if people can breach it whenever they feel like?

What's the point of having immigration laws if millions of people break those laws every day and then have the audacity to call themselves "victims"?

[MADem]

3. Well, the issue is a little more complex than all that

The GOP have turned a blind eye to the problem of undocumented workers, because they wanted the cheap labor to increase their profit margin. It actually benefitted them to let the workers slip over the border. But now, the trickle has become a flood, and they want to turn off the spigot, because they see that the job situation ain't gonna get any better for the voting public, and they figure they can keep 'em down on the farm, and off unemployment, sweeping floors or plucking onions after their jobs get outsourced or automated. But so long as the undocumented will work for less, there aren't any swell opportunities as janitors or chambermaids for the US born labor force.

[Placebo]

4. It's true.

The corporatists are the best friends of illegal immigration.

[gratuitous]

5. Not just penalizing those who hire them, but anyone who helps them

Imagine you're at a social service agency or a church, and someone comes in, hungry and cold. You give him a bowl of soup, maybe a blanket. Under Sensenbrenner's bill, if the unfortunate fellow is here "illegally," you've just committed a federal felony unless you can prove you didn't know he was here illegally.

Now, what was that about "utter bullshit"?

[Placebo]

6. As long as there is somebody there to give them aid...

they'll think it's perfectly fine to break the law.

Like I said, utter bullshit.

[Salviati]

7. You think they're coming up here for the free soup?

Just because they're breaking the law, doesn't mean that we have to lose our humanity. They're coming here for the jobs, plain and simple. There are jobs here for undocumented workers because the corporatists can pay them shit. THe only solution to the problem is to fine the living hell out of any corporation cought hiring undocumented workers. Not just make it unprofitable to get caught, but make it unprofitable to even risk it. Getting caught should more or less mean a death sentance for the corporation. Hell, while we're at it, offer big cash rewards to undocumented workers willing to rat out their employers. That would solve the problem right quick, and you'll never hear a republican propose it.

[flyarm]

20. thoselaws are in place but our dear pres has not held one corp

accountable..and don't forget dearest pissypants was letting illegals be hired abolishing a very old law..so haliburton could hire the illegals in the toxic clean up in new orleans and missisppi..then haliburton stiffed them ..the only bullshit is the hypocracy of our own people who refuse to demand accoubtability of our own government! and their complicity in the corportate sweat shops..and sweat farms!
this administration is attempting to make us a third world country ..and destroy our middle class just read Greg Palast's "GLOBAL;IZATION''and see what the * family did to argentina..and see where our future lies..that was just their test program through the world bank and imf..and who now runs the world bank..why neo con pnac'er Wolfowitz..

so when do we americans stand up..when do we get off our proverbial asses and protest this government..don't blame those who have sttod up for their rights..when do we stand up for ours?????????????

fly

[gratuitous]

12. You know, you're right

How odd that I never noticed it before (Matthew 25:37-40):

Then the deluded dopes will answer the king, "Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry and gave you food, or thirsty and gave you something to drink? And when was it that we saw you a stranger and welcomed you, or naked and gave you clothing? And when was it that we saw you sick or in prison and visited you?" And the king will answer them, "Truly I tell you, it was a Homeland Security snitch that ratted you out, and now you're going to jail for a long time, motherfucker!"

Yep, Republican Standard Version of the Bible, Take Two: This time, it's personal.

[WildEyedLiberal]

50. How perfectly and utterly callous

I don't give two shits what you believe about any political policy issue - you are not a "liberal" because you possess the same cruel, coldhearted lack of compassion as any Republican.

[O.M.B.inOhio]

11. Well, you know Jesus never helped the marginalized!

[Toots]

38. That's exactly why Hillary brought up Jesus and said this bill would make

him a criminal and any "good samaritan" also. This is a Very anti-Christian Bill and that is what needs to be hammered on.

[ProSense]

8. You know what's utter bullshit?

When some Americans laud people like Bernard Kerik and enablers like Rudy Giuliani. Bush an utter bullshitter.

Kerik's 'Nannygate' Was the Least of It

How revealing that the nomination of Bernard Kerik as Homeland Security chief should be derailed not by the former New York City police commissioner's alleged violations of conflict-of-interest laws, mob connections and post-9/11 security industry profiteering but rather by his rueful admission that he paid no taxes for his "illegal immigrant" baby-sitter.

Snip...

Of course, labor law violations are to Big Business what the nickel-a-swear-word jar is to adult visitors to Grandma's house--no big deal. But woe to the political aspirant who doesn't remember the ghosts of Nannygates Past: The law is the law--as Kerik's chief backer, ex-New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani, observed in reluctantly agreeing that Kerik had to withdraw--or at least it is once the media find out it has been broken.

So Kerik tried to save a few bucks by hiring an undocumented worker and has paid a certain cost. However, by bowing out now, he may have saved himself a passel of future trouble. NYC's media have been raising issues about potentially far more consequential legal transgressions by Kerik, which Giuliani should have known about before recommending his protege for the national security post.

Snip...

So Kerik tried to save a few bucks by hiring an undocumented worker and has paid a certain cost. However, by bowing out now, he may have saved himself a passel of future trouble. NYC's media have been raising issues about potentially far more consequential legal transgressions by Kerik, which Giuliani should have known about before recommending his protege for the national security post.

more...

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20041227/scheer1224

[flyarm]

10. WHATS THE POINT IN HAVING A PRES WHO IS BREAKING THE LAWS OF OUR LAND

EACH AND EVERY DAY AND shredding our constitution and bill of rights and each and every member of his administration breaks the laws of our land for him..seems we are in a free fall of everyone breaking the laws..but the laws are for everyone aren't they ..why are we not impeaching today, right ..the very leader of our nation who has broken the most sacred laws of our land??????????

a president who has not only broken our laws, but he has broken the laws of the geneva conventions and all international laws..so why have we not convicted him on felony's???????????\

why are we not holding sensenbrenner to the fire for not calling for impeachment of this pres..he seems so willing to write laws..well how about he hold those who are breaking our laws ,,every day.. accountable?

lets start at the top please...the very people who set our standards as a people..a nation..the very people who now want to put laws into effect for the poorest and yet fuck the laws they are supposed to protect..like the very constitution this land was built upon..

we either have laws for all or laws for none!..what a fine example sensenbrenner has been hasn't he?????? he won't even allow hearing about our pres breaking the laws..he cuts off micro phones...and sends those trying to hold hearings on our president lying us into a war ..to the basement of the capitol..what a fine law abiding man wouldn't you say???????????

seems we are a nation of fucking hypocrites ,when we are ready to put into law felonys ..when our highest office is shitting on all the laws he is put in place to ensure!

READ THIS AND THEN TELL ME ABOUT OUR LAWS!

http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2006/03/administration-tells-congress-again-we.html

WE ARE ALL HYPOCITES WHEN WE ALLOW THIS AND YET GO AFTER THE POOREST IN OUR NATION!
we are hypocrites when the very man who put his hand on the bible and swore to protect our constituton is shitting all over it and sensenbrenner and his thugs would rather hold the poorest among us accountable..and let the rich pricks get away with murder..literally!
i for one am sick of the damn hypocrites!
FLY

[Placebo]

13. Are you implying Americans can only do one thing at a time?

I hope not.

And these "poorest in our nation", as you call them, aren't legal.

GET 'EM OUTTA HERE!

[flyarm]

21. and do you honestly believe those 500,000 were all illegal??

is that what you are implying..because i believe you would be incorrect

[flyarm]

24. oh and i do believe the only ones who have a right to complain

are native american indians of which my husband is and my son is..
what country was your family from...my family was from ireland and holland...

my husband is a native american indian calif karuk tribe..and he is not complaining!

but he is sure complaining how the republicans stole american indian money!and those guys are running congress the same congress that support * breaking our most valued laws of our land..lets take care of them first shall we????????

fly

[Maraya1969]

33. You are right. The only ones here who are not immigrants are Native

Americans and I don't think that when the masses came over from Europe they had to do fucking back flips like the people who want to come into this country today.

I spoke with an immigration lawyer with an illegal immigrant trying to find out how he could get a green card and one of the things he said was some Europeans pay $13,000 to get one.

This government just put the plug in the jug when it came time to let minorities in. It is not fair. And for those bitching that they are illegal do some research on what it takes to become a legal resident in this country these days. It certainly is not the same as when our ancestors came over.

[SaveElmer]

15. These people are the victims...

They are simply doing what they can to survive...

The criminals here are the governments and companies that exploit these people consigning them to poverty where they live...

The problem will not be solved by hunting down these people like they are murderers or something...

[Placebo]

19. We have to do both.

Get the illegals outta here, and penalize those companies and individuals who would hire them or give them incentive to break the law by invading our nation.

[SaveElmer]

32. I agree with half of that...

Although it is more than just penalizing companies for incenting them to come here...we also need to incent them not to exploit them in their home countries.

As to those already here...I agree with Sen. Boxer that we should move them along the path toward making them legal.

[Rainscents]

22. HR 4437 doesn't deal with Corporate!

If you want this problem solve, we have to fine the shit out of Corporate! You are blaming all this crap on illegal and when we should be going after Corporation. Read the bill, corporate goes scott free, while the illegals and one's who help them with foods and shelters are the one being punished. What the heck is wrong with you?

[PVK]

25. I am totally in agreement with you!

For God's sake, people! WE can't just cross over into Canada illegally, work a while and then INSIST that we be made citizens!

There HAVE to be immigration laws and they HAVE to be enforced!

[Rainscents]

26. There is law in place, but NOT being inforce!

Past 5 years illegal crossing gotten way out of hand and I wonder why? Oh yeah, I forgot, we have all three brench of republicans government and they love slave labor!

[PVK]

28. Yup. There it is. n/t

[Placebo]

31. Thank you!

I can't believe so many people on the left (and right) who want to hold George Bush accountable (and rightly so) for all the laws he's broken, so quickly turn a blind eye to the tens of millions in this nation who've broken the law and are living here illegally.

We're under invasion and no one seems to care, and if you do, you're a racist out-of-touch bastid.

Not in my America!

[ldf]

42. placebo...

i agree with you, but i can't put it quite so stridently.

i do believe we are being invaded. their payoff won't come for a few years, but if you notice that the ones we assume to be illiegals (mainly because they will work for nothing, and can't speak english) are usually very young families.

here in my neighborhood it is very common to see a young woman who can't hardly be out of her teens, carrying a small child, two older kids in tow, and pregnant.

none can speak english. they don't have to. we provide translators for when they file for public assistance.

when i go to the grocery store, and need to ask a question, i have to hunt for someone to speak english. and then it is usually minimal english.

if all of this is allowed, and rather than do something about it we just "grandfather" all the illegals here into a path to citizenship, when will spanish become the primary languange?

if nothing is done, i see the u.s. becoming pockets of people who will have no reason whatsoever to become part of this nation. instead they will try to recreate exactly what they tried to escape from.

i think a lot of it may be based on religion, since i would assume that most of the spanish speaking peoples are catholic and do not practice birth control. because that is the way it was, wherever they came from.

i'm sorry, but i don't want to live in a third world. if i did, i would move there. (i may have to, when i retire, just so i can live on a fixed income, but that is another rant...)

i live where i do in manhattan because that is the only place i can afford to live. i pay 1500 a month, but the "section eight" (for people under a certain income) equivilant rent is 498. i and my partner live together, yet in our building there are apartments with 8 or ten people living in them. and none will speak english.

i DON'T want this country to become third world status, one neighborhood at a time. but that is what's happening.

and the weird part, in manhattan there are huge neighborhoods of different cultures. but most are willing to assimilate to a certain extent into the american culture, while still celebrating their own ancestry.

but the spanish speaking neighborhoods seem to be more of complete isolationists. where NO ONE speaks english.

i remember a news article on a local tv channel a couple of years ago. it was one of those typically sensational human interest stories about a pregnant woman.

she was being interviewed, in the hospital, through an interpretor. she had been living here since 1986, and she still had to use an interpretor.

people like that have no desire to "become american". they want to benefit from everything we have to offer, but do it while recreating "the old world" here. AND having baby after baby after baby.

if this continues we are going to end up like the baltic nations, where ethnicities fight each other, for centuries. there already seems to be an animosity between the black communties and the spanish communities.

we have already started the long slide downhill. we may even be past the point where we CAN do anything about it.

when talking to potential students who are not from new york, where i work as an administrator, i often try to make the "melting pot" correlation, except instead of manhattan becomeing a bland gruel of sorts, we manage to be beef stew, where there are still flavory chunks of individual tastes, all coming together to create an incredibly delicious mixture.

i don't want to be gruel, and i don't want all taco, all the time.

i understand that they come here for a better life, and i also understand that the business community makes big bucks off of them. regardless of what is done, they (the illegal aliens) will be hurt. and that is ALSO not the american way.

what are we to do?

[Maraya1969]

34. Read this and see how "easy" it is to come to this county now.

http://www.soyouwanna.com/site/syws/greencard/greencardFULL.html


And I just remembered that 2 women I know got paid about $5,000 each to marry men from some other country so the men could be legal. If you are from a horribly poor county how are you going to get $5,000 American dollars.

And getting an employer to sponsor you is not so easy either when you have no skills and they really want to pay you below minimum wage and not provide you health care or have to give the government taxes for your wages.

People die trying to get into this county and they know they can get deported right at the shore line. That is quite a bit of desperation in my opinion.

[PVK]

47. So? It's always been hard to come here.

It's even HARDER to expatriate. Check out the immigration laws for other countries some time. I'd love to leave but there are not many places that will take me.

[bvar22]

43. All you need to do is penalize those who hire them!

The rest is unnecessary.

The meme was reinforced by the crew on MTP this morning:
"The illegal immigrants are necessary to do the work that Americans won't do!"
This line was batted around the table and accepted as Gospel by all.
The statement neeeds to be ammended to include ...".work that Americans won't do at the current slave wages".

The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

[PVK]

51. Damn right. HERE are the rules.

And it's up to BOTH the employers AND the workers to follow them:

There are 3 general steps in the application process for lawful permanent residence for skilled workers. The first two steps must be initiated by your potential employer, and the last step by you and your accompanying relatives. The application procedures may be carried out either within the US at a USCIS office, or abroad at the U.S. consulate of your country of residence.

The first step involves your employer who files for a Labor Certification on your behalf. The reason that you are required to do this is so that the US Government can confirm that there are no qualified United States citizens available and willing to take the specific job that has been offered and that the working conditions and wages offered for the position will not have an adverse effect on the United States labor market. Therefore, you will be working with both the USCIS and the Department of Labor on this application.

If the Labor Certification is approved, you will then have to prove that you are qualified for this particular visa. Your employer will then file an Immigrant Petition for the Alien Worker (Form I-140).

If the Petition is approved, you will then file a formal request for lawful permanent residency or a green card application. This process can take place from the Country of Residence at the US consulate or from within the United States.

There are several factors that could impact the time it takes for the application to be approved. These factors may include, but may not be limited to: (a)Using the correct procedures when filing each type of application; and (b) quota availability. For example quotas are set by both visa type and by country, so, the country you were born in can also impact your timing.

[WinkyDink]

44. Hey! If it means more anti-Bush sentiment, I'm all for it!

[ruggerson]

9. None of these people vote n/t

[IndianaGreen]

14. Most of them are American citizens!

And they will vote in great numbers against the Lou Dobbs of this world!

[Placebo]

16. Lou Dobbs is a great American.

I fail to see why someone advocating that the laws of the land be enforced is a bad thing.

[awoke_in_2003]

23. That title "great american"

is thrown around MUCH too easily today, especially by the Glenn Becks, Tony Snowes, and Gregg Knapps of the world. Dobbs is a journalist with some good points, but let's ease up on the great american stuff.

On edit: Just to expound, when I think Great Americans I think of people who put their careers and sometimes their lives on the line to fight those in power. People like: the Founding Fathers, Frederick Douglas, Martin Luther King, Edward Murrow, Bunnatine "Bunny" Greenhouse, Eugene Debs, etc

[PVK]

27. Amen, Placebo.

I am tired of people beating up on me for this. People have become completely irrational over this issue.

People who are here ILLEGALLY should not be allowed to stay illegally. They shouldn't be here in the first place and they certainly shouldn't have been hired to work. They need to earn their citizenship, same as anyone else who wasn't born here.

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

36. Have you read the McCain/Kennedy bill?

That is exactly what it proposes.

It's all about "earning" the right to legal residency and the path to citizenship...

It's not about making ordinary people, like you and me, who might knowingly or unknowingly, God forbid, help a fellow human out in a particular situation...

Bottom line to me is this: these "illegals" are human beings, not chattel.

Are we going to go back to the original Constitution of the US, when slaves were considered 3/5ths of a white man?

This whole discussion is racist to it's core..

:mad: :mad:

[IndianaGreen]

40. All the white people are in this country illegally

Our ancestors came to this country without a visa or a work permit, and proceeded to steal the lands that properly belonged to the Native American nations.

The US also stole and is illegally occupying land that belongs to Mexico, such as California, Arizona, Texas, New Mexico.

The above statements illustrates the mine field that the immigration issue can become when one introduces historical grievances.

[PVK]

49. Not so. Do you know the history of US immigration?

http://www.rapidimmigration.com/usa/1_eng_immigration_history.html

Your argument that "our ancestors" were here illegally is specious.

[ProSense]

30. Yeah! Great American who spent 2003 and most of 2004

playing war booster.

"He looked like an alternatively commander in chief, rock star, movie star, and one of the guys."
http://robots.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0305/01/mlld.00.html

"The Tommy Franks-Don Rumsfeld battle plan, war plan, worked brilliantly, a three-week war with mercifully few American deaths or Iraqi civilian deaths," said Fox News commentator Morton Kondracke. "All the naysayers have been humiliated so far. … The final word on this is hooray."

CNN's Lou Dobbs said, "Some journalists, in my judgment, just can't stand success, especially a few liberal columnists and newspapers and a few Arab reporters."

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/032106M.shtml

[Placebo]

35. He was only commenting on the invasion itself.

Hard to argue that it went "badly" from a military perspective.

Should we have invaded? In my opinion, not only no, but hell no.

But that was then and this is now.

[IndianaGreen]

39. If Lou Dobbs cares about law breaking, he would be calling for impeachment

of Bush and Cheney, and for the firing and prosecution of the biggest group of law breakers since the Cosa Nostra.

The sign "Republicans Hate Latinos" that one of the protesters had in the OP should be our campaign slogan!

We won't ever get the votes from the white evangelicals, but we can certainly get the votes of otherwise more conservative Latinos that will vote to defend la raza, even if that vote goes to a pro-choice, pro-LGBT Democratic candidate. Even Hillary Clinton understands the strategic opportunity that the House GOP has given us.

BTW, Lou Dobbs is as obsessed about Mexican immigrants as Rita Cosby is obsessed about a missing blonde in Aruba.

[awoke_in_2003]

17. "heir to the Kotex fortune"

oh, the irony

[oasis]

18. "Send me your tired, your hungry, your poor". I'm for getting rid of the

hard-hearted, native born bastards that pollute this great and good land of ours.

[PVK]

29. Well, after all, they did make this mess didn't they?

They need to fix it then.

[malaise]

37. What a turn out

I see the protests are coming home at last. Bushco is in deep trouble.

Edit -spacing

[gizmo1979]

41. Sensenbrenner had a town hall

meeting yesterday.When he arrived he was jeered by about 200 protesters.The funny part was the guy that was there to quickly open the door,couldn't find the right key,so Kotex boy had to awkwardly stand their and take the abuse.It was laugh out loud funny.

[WinkyDink]

45. Gee, can we expect Mrs. Jeb to go stumping now?

[ginnyinWI]

46. Jim S. has a challenger this fall

http://www.dfalink.com/campaign.php?id=891

Go to DFA and help rate him up, especially if you are in his 5th District!

[Clarkie1]

48. How do you think the people at the rally would feel about the Democratic

plan being put forth by Kennedy and Reid?