Support or Oppose Draft Poll with Age demographics

[JohnKleeb]

Poll question: Support or Oppose Draft Poll with Age demographics

18 years old and adamantly opposed to a draft here.

[bluestateguy]

1. People on the left who support a draft are naive

Naive for thinking that a draft that was administered by this administration would EVER be fair and equitable. It would never happen, no matter what the law said.

[JohnKleeb]

2. We're on the same page then

Because that's my position, a draft would never truly be fair and if people actually feel the sons and daughters of all these politicans would be going then I have to say they are delusional.

[atreides1]

4. Wrong

The administration would have very little to do with the selection process, and local boards would be making decisions on deferments, and being in school won't get your ass out of the selection process either.

Unless you have proof to the contrary, or a theory on how this administration would have its hands in every single local board in this country, I have to disagree with you.

[Tiggeroshii]

7. Wasn't JFK drafted?

..and RFK? They were spoiled sons of a politician. They weren't doing too abd off. Unless they weren't drafed then taht empirical example wouldn't fit.

[JohnKleeb]

8. They volunteered I believe

[bluestateguy]

10. OK

Do you really think that Pierce Bush would have to serve if his number was called up while his uncle was president? A few phone calls are made and poof! He gets a deferment for some nonsense like ADD or flat feet or something.

[JohnKleeb]

12. You can get a deferment for ADD?

Thats ridicious.

[Warpy]

13. Local boards are local bidnessmen

and local bidnessmen will let rich kids off the hook to curry favor, patronage, and loans from the rich parents.

It happened that way in every war in the last century. It will happen again.

The draft will NEVER touch the spoiled scions of the rich.

[etherealtruth]

5. That's the problem ....

Those with wealth and a sense of entitlement will never serve.

Speaking to moderates on the "right" ... they must understand that eventually we are going to run out of poor/disadvantaged people (those finding few educational or job opportunities) to volunteer ... what will we do then.

We need a reasonably planned timetable for US withdrawal.

[Warpy]

11. Absolutely! Plus a draft would give Stupid

the manpower he needs to attempt to invade Iran, Syria, and North Korea, setting off the next world war with us as the designated loser.

No thanks.

The all volunteer army is working the way it's supposed to, with a lack of vounteers clipping the wings of the hawks when they want to wage wars of corporate convenience.

Now if we can only redefine its mission as DEFENSE, we'll be on the right track.

[noamnety]

3. I support it, with the usual disclaimer

Anyone should be able to get out of it with a documented statement as a CO, which becomes a matter of public record. The draft board should be able to tell you the statement has to be more concise, longer, etc, but they should NOT be able to reject it.

So ... nobody is forced to go fight a war they don't support. But everyone who vocally supports the war has to go fight it, or go on public record revoking their support.

[raysr]

6. I support it but let me qualify:

The creation of the draft will stop the war. It will end the republicans for years to come, that's why they haven't done it. I don't want anyone to go into the service but this may be what it takes to turn things around . I was drafted in 1968, before the lottery, I was LUCKY. Never had to go to 'Nam, good duty etc. but I still hated it and didn't re-enlist.

[Warpy]

16. BULLSHIT

The draft didn't stop the Vietnam War, it just gave Johnson and Nixon a nearly unlimited supply of young, poor bodies to fight it. There was no major public uprising against the draft, although there was a minor uprising against the unfairness of letting the middle class avoid it with multiple college deferments for multiple degrees.

The reinstitution of the draft will be seen as rah-rah patriotism by stupid people on both sides who either didn't experience it or haven't thought what giving Stupid access to all the young people in this country will mean to us.

[welshTerrier2]

9. this really is tragic

wake up, people ...

do not allow the state and the corporate tyranny that controls it to have jurisdiction over the lives of America's young people ... no one should be forced to become a pawn in their schemes ... most wars have not been fought for legitimate purposes ...

the goals some draft supporters seek are admirable but the supporting the draft is gambling with people's lives ... the problems of inequity and lack of public awareness about war are correctly identified; the draft as a solution is insane ...

do not yield even greater power to a corrupt system ... real solutions lie more in the area of awakening the public to the real motives the power elite have for war ... it's all about profits and exploitation ... don't let them take America's children without a fight ... and don't let them take you without a fight either ...

if you just can't live without a draft, tell them to take the children of all elected war supporters first ... and then take all the children of those who sit on the boards of directors of companies doing business in the war zone ... do that first and then we can discuss a broader draft ...

[laugle]

22. Well said, your posts are always sooo thoughtful!

I'm 53 and would like to know if you think a draft would stop this insane war?

Let's face it, a draft would never happen with the regressives unless there was another attack, and even then I think it's very unlikely?

What do you think?

[welshTerrier2]

25. thanks, laugle ...

that's very kind of you to say ...

i don't think they would dare reinstitute the draft ... fwiw, here's a little snapshot of how i see the world as it relates to this issue ...

wars have to be sold to the American public ... it's to "protect" the country or it's to "help" free people or we cannot allow "them" to have this weapon or we have to retaliate for their attack on this or that ... i'm not a pacifist; sometimes war is necessary ... but it's almost never necessary and the usual stated goals are almost always lies ... it's usually about profits and power ...

i see the country run by a fairly invisible, elite ruling class ... money is power and obscene money is obscene power ... the best strategy for the elite is to wrap themselves in the "goodness" of America ... we have democracy; we have public education; we have laws that protect minorities ... we're the good guys ... nationalism sells ... it sells until the people awaken to the reality that what's really being sold isn't any belief in American institutions but rather plain and simple greed ...

if the American people ever awaken, there will be beheadings of the power elite in the town squares ... so, the envelope is pushed and pushed and pushed and the profits, e.g. big oil profits (i.e. war profits), soar higher and higher and higher ... if they push too hard, they risk awakening a resistance ... right now we are mostly appeased with our color TV's and our dvd players and other material crap ... they push until the noise starts to rise and then we get a brief respite of liberalism ... we get things like the Family Leave Act ... it's not unimportant but it's ultimately mere tokenism ...

a draft could quickly change this "dazed Americana" ... little Billy or little Susie could get killed ... it personalizes things ... that's the argument some of the draft supporters make ... they think the power elite will somehow not risk their own lives or the lives of their children ... they won't, of course ...

the problem is, though, that we have yet to demonstrate our ability to control the abuses of massive wealth ... i see those pushing for a draft as gambling with the lives of our young ... they have yet to demonstrate that a fair system that makes ALL AMERICANS share the burden has ever occurred ... right now, the wealthy write the laws and they write their own tickets ... i have no confidence a draft or any other law will ever be fair until we reform our government ... i'm certainly not willing to put any faith in the idea that a draft law would accomplish any kind of fairness ...

the draft is a terrible idea ... a better idea is to work on reforming our government and getting the big money out of politics ... i doubt that will ever happen with the token measures proposed by "liberals" ... ideas like lobby reform and campaign finance laws are fine but i doubt they will ever achieve the goals they pursue ... as a first step "let's try this", fine ... i'm in ... but liberals, most in the Democratic Party, need to commit to the ultimate goal ... we need to agree that we have to get big money and its corrupting influences out of the political process ... if our "little laws" fail, we have to be prepared to go further ... i think this will eventually be necessary ... my idea is to cap wealth to a point where it cannot disproportionately influence government policy ... i see that as draconian and undesirable but also as ultimately necessary ...

good government demands that the genuine best interests of the nation and ALL IT CITIZENS be served by government ... anything short of that is absolutely unacceptable ... if big money can buy even a little extra government, we must commit to doing whatever is necessary to stop that process ... calls today for capping wealth have no political viability whatsoever ... and still we have not found a solution to the problems that big money creates on our political institutions ... again, until we commit to the solution as an absolute requirement, we will not be able to solve the problems we face ...

[laugle]

26. Your analysis is excellent, I wish I could recommend this thread!

[Placebo]

14. Oh Kleeb, will you ever learn?

:donut:

[JohnKleeb]

15. just an experiment

I wanted to see a correlation between draft support and age. I'll take the donut but not the coffee.

[Placebo]

17. Sensitive to caffeine?

Or just don't like the taste?

[JohnKleeb]

23. The taste

Can handle caffine.

[fujiyama]

18. I'm 25

FUCK THE DRAFT!

Convenient that those 30-45 are most likely to support a draft. They're likely too old to be drafted or too young to have kids of draft age.

If Bush had a steady stream of young bodies, he wouldn't give a shit. He has said that the US is staying in that shit storm he created regardless. And some people might fuss a little but they'd continue to put these fuckers in power. Oh "the gays. The illegal immigrants. The brown people...the abortionists"....or whatever the new flavor of the month group the people are supposed to hate would make news. People would then be convinced their kids are dying for a rightful and just cause. Look how many military families support Bush? They have to convince themselves that their kids are not dying in vain and parents of draftees would do the same.

Guess what? The children of rich and powerful won't serve. They're too busy profitting off this. Their kids will be flown to foreign schools and colleges if need be for "study abroad".

[welshTerrier2]

21. just to recap

the poll, such as it is, does not currently seem to be indicating an age demographic ... i.e. the age bracket you referred to does not currently seem to have a disproportionate number of draft supporters to draft opposers ...

i'm 55 btw ... i don't have kids and i strongly oppose the insanity of making young people servants and slaves of the empire ...

[Telly Savalas]

28. So far it's a really small sample size for the under 30 crowd

so I wouldn't draw any inferences from it.

Regardless, Kleeb makes a good point just by posting the poll in the first place.

[JohnKleeb]

29. Thanks

Its not a huge sample but if I were a pollster, this is exactly how I would do it, and because polls you can include more than 10+ oopitions, I'd also ask the people if they had military expewrience and had kids or not too. Demographics are very important if you want to raise awareness of an issue.

[guinivere]

19. Good poll, Mr. Kleeb!

I'm 48, and I oppose the draft.

No matter what they say, it will never be fair. I refuse to send my sons (or anybody's kids) to be cannon fodder for the idiot chimp-king. He would just figure, more bodies = more wars.

[Hosnon]

20. 24 - I support mandatory public service (military, charitable, etc.) nt

[LWolf]

24. Almost 46 and adamantly opposed to a draft.

Of course, I'm the mother of 2 sons in their 20s. :shrug:

:hi:

[laylah]

27. I have two daughters...

One is majorly hearing impaired (90% in left, 65% in right) so I do not worry about her; HOWEVER, my oldest is healthy as a horse, sharp as a tack, computer literate, and possesses many qualities the current draft idea would embrace.

We discussed this two years ago and she is setting up her CO position...and I am in constant communication with friends/family in Europe.

These low=life bastards will NOT get my daughter if she does not want to go, which she doesn't.

As many posters have stated, it would be an imbalanced draft, I don't care who says otherwise!

JMVHO.

Jenn