So how do we frame the fact we have to raise taxes to pay for things.

[dorktv]

We all know that Americans have been supporting things like a single payer system, cutting the deficit but at the same time we have an opposition that has yet to get that taxes pay for this stuff.

How do we deflect that?

[Jim Sagle]

1. TANSTAAFL. "There ain't no such thing as a free lunch."

[dorktv]

7. hmmm...close.

[LynnTheDem]

2. I say fuck it; get rid of ALL taxes & let Americans find out exactly what

that means.

No garbage pick-up. No cleaning of streets. No welfare, no food stamps, no medical unless you have the cash upfront.

No schools, no roads, no traffic lights (when they burn out? Drive very very carefully) No snow removal.

No transit. Can't get to work without? Oh well.

No nothing whatsoever. Unless you have the cash upfront.

Should last about a week.

[dorktv]

4. you sound like one of my friends...only he says we should

slash taxes and still spend like drunken sailors on holiday.

This way we outchicken the Republicans.

[LynnTheDem]

8. That works for me, too. Unfortunately a whole lot of innocent

Americans would die.

But then, they're dying now.

Maybe hitting absolute rock bottom fast is a kinder way in the long run. I dunno. I just dunno any more.

[dorktv]

17. I know...no good choices.

[LynnTheDem]

19. Exactly.

We can go on as is, until things do finally hit bottom...or we can suffer the fatal blow fast.

Suffer slowly, or suffer fast; no good choices.

[dorktv]

20. I keep telling my friends on Nov. Vic. that we need to point out that

the Republicans are just fearmongering tax cutting incompetent fools.

[LynnTheDem]

23. I call them; BIG SPENDING REPUBS! BLEEDING HEART REPUBS!!!

NATION-BUILDING BLEEDING-HEART BIG-SPENDING REPUBLICANS!

[dorktv]

24. Yes but even the nation building they do incomepentatly.

Damn I cannot spell!

[blondeatlast]

31. "Spend and spend Republicans." Note my sig line. nt

[redphish]

3. King George I had to raise taxes to dig us out of Reagan's mess.

Remember the whole "read my lips" deal?

[dorktv]

6. Barely...I was like 9.

[redphish]

10. Well ya didn't have to do THAT!

Seriously, when he was campaigning he said in a speech "read my lips, no new taxes". Then, about the first thing he had to do when he took office was raise taxes to get the budget under control from Reagan's budget deficits. As bad as thet were,t hey weren't even close to what junior has managed to do.

[dorktv]

15. Frat boy spending daddy's fortune.

[Rainscents]

5. Go back to 1994 bill Clinton signed when Clinton was in the office!

Clinton took 8 Trillion dollar deficit when he took office from 12 years of republican! We need to go back to that!

[Skink]

9. Easy raise taxes on only the richest one percent.

If they don't like it confiscate all there ill gotten gains.

[TacticalPeek]

12. Exactly - picture the 90s.

Peace and prosperity and the longest economic expansion ever.

Just let the cuts expire, and fix the estate and capital gains horseshit.

[babylonsister]

11. The amount of money this country is in the hole for is pathetic;

wouldn't a real prezident at least talk to Americans about that, given the fact he was so chatty
last week?
This is OUR country, not only his.
I am so disgusted.

[unblock]

13. call it the "GEORGE W BUSH THANKS FOR NOTHING TAX"

[Warpy]

14. First, single payer means we pay premiums

not taxes. Second, tie everything to an increase in WAGES. With higher wages at the bottom, tax revenue increases.

Third, start floating the idea of FAIR taxes according to the benefit one derives from living in the US.

[dorktv]

16. hmmm...Increase in wages...That is kind of like how your property

taxes when the price of the home goes up.

[kentuck]

18. Just because you charge it does not mean you don't have to pay for it..

Indeed, there is no free lunch.

[Crazy Guggenheim]

21. How about "Pay the bills." "The mess has to get paid down."

:popcorn:

[dorktv]

26. you love that little popcorn smiley.

[starroute]

22. Hit them on their arguments for cutting taxes

For example, conservatives are always saying, "you can spend your money better than the government can." So ask them if they'd enjoy a system where you paid no taxes but were responsible for:

* Maintaining several miles of the local interstate and federal and state highways at your own expense.

* Supporting a certain number of hurricane victims, disabled veterans, and starving children, also out of your own pocket.

* Contracting with a private firefighting company to come out if your house catches fire -- or being too cheap to sign a contract and having to negotiate terms while the house is actually burning.

* Making a national tour of meat processors, dairy farms, and the like every few weeks to make sure the food you buy is safe for you and your children.

* Hiring a private security guard to check on your house periodically and detain any suspicious loiterers.


Ask them also if they'd be prepared to accept the fact that your neighbors might not be as conscientious as you were about keeping up their stretch of the roads, might be willing to let the poor starve to the point where they came rampaging out of the cities to loot the suburbs, might contract with low-bid firefighters who didn't show up until the entire neighborhood was burning, or might hire poorly trained thugs for protection who molested your wife or assaulted your children instead of doing serious patrolling.

Liberals have generally been too nice to use the reductio ad absurdum the way conservatives do. But we could sure get a lot of mileage out of it.

[dorktv]

25. I always like the "do you want to pay for the development for something

like epogin?"

[AtomicKitten]

27. Explain it as precisely what Clinton did.

Raise taxes marginally on the wealthiest, and give tax cuts to the middle class and poor and to small businesses. Not one single Republican voted for the Clinton/Gore deficit-busting budget yet each one of them bitched vociferously before microphones that it would tank the economy. They were wrong then and they are wrong now.

Oh, and close the loopholes of the traitor corporations that base offshore and don't pay taxes at all.

I heard a motto for the Dems this fall from Newt Gingrich of all people: HAD ENOUGH?

[lojasmo]

28. Fiscal responsibility.

Although the republicans have successfully been using this same fram, the Bush admin as fooked it up so bad, I think we can steal it right out from under them.

[Minnesota Libra]

29. How about stating with the truth!! The neocons screwed us all.......

.....over for 8 long years and now folks we have to claw our way out of this or our country will financially go completely under. Put the blame right where it belongs.:hi:

[MiniMe]

30. You want a war? You have to pay for the war!

Personally, I think they should start off by raising taxes only on the Neocons. But since I believe in fairness and the constitution, I realize that that would not be constitutionally correct.

[FormerDittoHead]

32. How about "taking responsibility"...?

We also have to make sure people understand the concept of what is "FAIR" in tax fairness....

The vast majority of discretionary dollars go to the military.

The military protects wealth and freedoms. (freedom = power)

As it is, "income" is taxed, but it doesn't paint the whole picture. They talk about taxing INCOME fairly, but current income isn't the issue, ACCUMULATED income is the issue.

Those with the wealth and freedoms should pay their share for protecting it.

It's no different for people with larger houses paying more for homeowners insurance.

[Doremus]

33. Before anything else: Bring back the Fairness Doctrine

Because until that's done, ANY message we put out there is going to be twisted, out-shouted and slimed by the neocon media.

Then, and only then, we can begin the messy job of putting things right.

What'll work? HONESTY. People crave it after 6 years of NBL (nuttin' but lies).