Katherine Harris: Didn't she say people were "retouching" her photos...

[Dunvegan]

...to make her look bad?

Well...someone should have worked on this one:



The folks sitting at the table look gob-stoppered.

I suppose they were hoping they weren't going to be expected to eat.

[AtomicKitten]

1. I'm Katherine Harris and these are my breasts.

[shenmue]

7. Hysterical

:crazy:

:rofl:

[blondeatlast]

12. LOL! nt

[Sparkly]

23. "Spunk and Moxie"

As Jon Stewart said, "What has she got except spunk and moxie? That's what she's named them."

[question everything]

42. If Katie Couric said this on national TV, why not Katherine, too? (nt)

[Rosemary2205]

2. what did she do to her boobs?

she needs to sue the surgeon that did that to her.

[Cooley Hurd]

3. Look at the guys on the right...

Clearly, not listening to what she has to say... :rofl:

[NewJeffCT]

4. They seemed focused a bit lower than her face

it's pretty obvious...

[Javaman]

39. even the woman in the back is checking out her

rack. LOL

[Dogmudgeon]

5. I wouldn't want to touch them in the first place

And I wouldn't retouch her with Hitler's copy of Photoshop!

--p!

[noamnety]

6. Let's talk about her politics, shall we?

I'm sick and tired of people's reaction to a female politician they (rightfully) can't stand being one of derision based on sexism, female body image, etc.

[Rosemary2205]

8. IMHO

any woman who's going to present herself like that likely can't cut it on "her politics". I'm not saying she should frump herself, but my god. The lip licking, hair tossing, deliberately arching the back - it's old and pathetic and I refuse to take any woman seriously that has to resort to such crap to get attention in the workplace.

[blondeatlast]

14. Exactly; the woman WANTS noticed, or she wouldn't have

done what she's done to herself.

Welcome to DU! :toast:

[noamnety]

18. I've heard that argument before

The person I heard it from, unfortunately, was the person the state of Rhode Island assigned to prosecute the guy that abducted and raped my sister.

You all are acting in a way that would get you nailed for sexual harassment if it happened in the workplace. I'm not a fan of breast implants, for a number of reasons, but at the end of the day, it's her choice, her body, and not your business. Your business is deciding how you react to women whom you disagree with.

What I'm asking you to do is think about how you react to a woman in politics - do you react to her ideas, or do you react to her by objectifying her. And take responsibility for that reaction, instead of blaming it on her.

The reason I'm asking you to do this is because the circle of people affected by your comments is wider than you realize. It affects women with a variety of body shapes and sizes that want to go into politics. It affects the perception of how acceptable it is to judge a woman in the workplace on her breast size. And it affects how attorneys and juries perceive rape victims.

[blondeatlast]

20. I'm probably Barbara Mikulski's biggest fan.

Does that tell you something about me?

[noamnety]

21. What should it tell me about you?

I don't know enough about you to know where you're going with that statement.

[One_of_8]

29. I react to women in politics as I react to men

in politics. First of course, is the visual. What do they look like? Although my vote is not based on appearance alone, I cannot discount my instictive reaction to a person's appearance and demeanor. I listen to my gut reaction when I hear a person speak, see how they move, what they do with their eyes when responding to a question, and pay attention to how I react to their body language.

The most important thing to me is "what are their beliefs? What are their political beliefs?"

I react negatively to Katherine Harris on both a gut-level and an intellectual level. I reject the way she panders to voters, trying to win them over by using her femininity. I reject her actual politics as well, the politics of entitlement and cronyism, the politics of "I scratch your back and you scratch mine." (Although unfortunately for her, Republicans are not reciprocating her back-scratching and it must be absolutely infuriating to her.)

[noamnety]

37. I think we all do that

but it's good to recognize that private first impressions - gut reactions - are often based on subtle biases and stereotypes. I'm reminded of those studies where test subjects view photographs of various people, and assess their intelligence and trustworthiness. What invariably comes out is evidence of sexism, racism, and age discrimination that the test subjects didn't even realize they had.

Those are the things that lead to the police in my town pulling over students for DWB (driving while black). Those are the things that lead to women and minorities being marginalized in the workplace, or people voting against a candidate because he "looks French," or women with large breasts being taken less seriously, or women like my sister watching in horror as the prosecuting attorney implies she was "asking" to be raped, or Vietnamese communities in the Gulf Coast not receiving FEMA support. It perpetuates a stereotype, and while you may not be aware of the direct effects of comments like that, they do have an effect.

It's a constant struggle for everyone, including me sometimes, to have enough self-awareness to know when we are being played by our upbringing, and to have enough discipline to fight against that.

[One_of_8]

40. Yes, but I'm not in this case

it's good to recognize that private first impressions - gut reactions - are often based on subtle biases and stereotypes.

Perhaps. But I have learned to trust my instictive reaction to people. It turns out that I am right nearly every time. I understand that your point, that women as a whole have a much tougher road in any field they undertake, including politics, often because they are prejudged based on their sex. I live this reality every day, being a woman in the legal field. However, my impression of Katherine Harris, and the way she dresses and presents herself, are based on my own observation of her. I don't view her as a serious politician, but rather someone who has used her looks, money and position in much of her life. I'm not being played by my upbringing in this instance.

[SharonAnn]

31. Thank you for your comments on this. You're absolutely right.

[lukasahero]

34. Thank you for trying, Iwfern. eom

[Rosemary2205]

45. apples and oranges

I appreciate the sentiment about objectifying women and how people see rape victims but IMO it has NO relation what so ever to what Katherine Harris is doing. I just don't agree making a judgement call based on someone's over the top sexual behavior in an inappropriate place is objectifying them. She could look like Pam Anderson or Helen Thomas for all I care. I just do not appreciate the way she conducts herself.


And someone made the comment about Bill Clinton or George Clooney - sorry but barring that one Clinton Vanity fair pic I've seen either of them act like such a fool in public even once. Let alone at every opportunity. You think Bill went all over town with a banana in his pants, rubbing himself all over everyone and obscenely running his tongue all over her mouth every damn time the camera is on him. Geezle peats if either one of them did such a fool thing they'd be committed.

But since Harris is female I have to bite my tongue so some rape victim don't get treated like slop? I'm not buying. I think most people understand the difference between friendly and demented.

[noamnety]

46. over the top sexual behavior?

She stood with her back arched. She licked her lips.

That's what all the fuss is about, isn't it? Or was there something else I missed? Cause her behavior seems way less over the top than the reaction here, and also seems inextricably tied to people rating her physical attributes - body and face - not just her posture.

[Dunvegan]

9. Well, Katherine brought up the "retouch" issue her own self.

I'm just thinking that the only visual "retouching" going on is what she's doing to herself.

Now...on the issues...have you heard the one about Harris' corruption/staff problems/campaign finance snafu/et. al.?

[ClintonTyree]

10. But she's the one insisting on turning her breasts into a political....

statement. She uses them very prominently in most of her campaign activities. I wouldn't blame the people reacting so much as the person provoking the reaction. SHE'S the one who had breast augmentation surgery to help her political career, don't blame other people when they react to it. My two cents.

[blondeatlast]

17. She wants a job. If she interviewed looking like that,

whether we women like it or not, she wouldn't get hired unless it was for the Mary Kay lease space at Sears.

If I want to be thought of as a professional, I'm not going to display myself like that, especially with the hair tossing, lip licking, flirtatious glances at the married gd PRESIDENT, for pity's sake.

It's my opinion that what artifice one does to oneself in the interest of "beauty" is fair game and it applies equally to males--have you seen the hair of some of our Congress critters? It's the stuff of nightmares.

Think of it this way--remember Bug Bomb Tom Delay's mug shot? Pretty much the same difference, IMHO.

[lukasahero]

35. On the bright side

it's mostly women disparaging your idea to comment on her politics, not her looks/sexuality (3 to 1 so far). Wait, is that a bright side? We have a long, long, long way to go, baby. :(

[Vickers]

11. Hey, that man has terrific tits!

I think it's so hilarious that freepers think she's hot. Hey, any hack surgeon can stick some boobs on an old chick, that's not rocket science. :eyes:

[0007]

13. Can ya believe this woman?

[blondeatlast]

15. That is just so, so, so... Words fail me.

Is that really her?

Egads. :scared:

[BlueEyedSon]

16. I can't even stand to touch them once.... but she sure has "hoementum"!

[formercia]

19. The rooms keep getting smaller

so she can always claim talking to a packed house.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

22. I wouldn't reTOUCH her with a 10 foot pole but I'll hit her with graphics!

of well, I tried but no matter how well you dress it up, a DOG IS STILL A DOG!

[Catchawave]

24. This is a MUCH better look for her:

[yellowcanine]

25. The third guy from the right looks as if he is sitting on a hemorrrhoid

the size of a Concord grape (credit to Garrison Keillor for that one)

[MadMaddie]

26. The attendees are a bit miffed because they are not being

fed the free meals they were promised!!

[Armstead]

27. A serious question here...

Where is the line between sexism and honest criticism of a woman who istrying to capitalize on sex appeal?

And where is the difference between being friendly and being flirtatious? Does a woman hve to behave like Attila the Hun to overome a personality that might include sexual vibe?

Setting aside for the moment her terrible politics, and her horrible actions in the 2000 election, can Harris e faulted for being a flirtatious Southern type, if that's what she really is? Suppose she was the same person, but she looked like a non-descript frump? Would she be taken any more seriously?

How does all this pply to men?

Bill Clinton is a major flirt. Unfortuntely, he also chose to take it further than that. However, suppose he had kept his raging libido under control, would his flirtatiousness and sexual aura hve been seen as a liability, or an asset?

Or suppose George Clooney decided to run for office. Great guy, great politics. But suppose he was just his charming roguish self in terms of how he presented himself? Would he be criticized? Would he have to put on 100 pounds, wear fake glasses, muss up his hair and do whatever else it took to avoid being who is is?

I don't have any answers on this. But I am curious about whether there really is a double standard.

[StatBabe]

32. I disagree about Clinton...

Have you ever been around Bill Clinton??? Have you ever seen him talk with women other than his wife??? I HAVE seen Clinton around women and even spent time with him years ago (only in a political sense--NOT in a sexual sense!) when he was running for governor of Arkansas (in '82--after he had lost the previous election to Frank White). He's certainly charming--no doubt about that, but a "major flirt"? Hardly! Like a lot of "alpha males", I assume that Clinton will respond in kind to a flirtatious woman (particularly one that has that "come hither" look). However, based on my own encounters and observations, limited as they were, Clinton was not much of "a flirt", which is one of the reasons that I never much believed Paula Jones' claim that he instigated the whole situation without any encouragement. Even with Monica Lewinsky, as I recall, it was Ms. Lewinsky who flashed her thong first.

It seems to me that if Clinton were a "major flirt", there would have been a lot more young women in the Clinton White House to come forward and talk about how he had "hit on" them--particularly when one considers how many women worked in his administration (e.g., Dee Dee Myers).

[tnlefty]

38. Excuse me, but what is a "flirtatious Southern type"?

As a southern woman I'd really like to try to understand what you're getting at here.

[Armstead]

47. It difficult to define but it's a very distinct charcteristic

I'm not using it in a critical sense, as in deliberatly using one's sexual wiles.

It's more a sense of open and cheerful intimacy that some southerners have, male and female. In a non-sexual way, it can be called charm. When they focus it on you, it can be flirtatious without necessarily being sexual manipulation. But it can eitehr cross that line -- or seem to -- easily. OIr be interpreted that way, without the person intending it to.

My family are southerners and I lived in the south for a number of years. Many of my relatives have it, and I love them for it. It doesn't mean they're shallow or manipulative -- just friendly.

That's part of my original question. In a situation where people are trying to be taken seriously, is it accepted simply as "roguish charm" or "appealing openess in a male, without undermining their credibility -- but in a woman it is used to demean her credentials or put into a strictly sexual context?

[tnlefty]

48. I'm not trying to be dense, but I don't think I'm getting it or perhaps I

am.

When I was in the work force I wanted to be taken seriously and I dressed and behaved in a manner that made that pretty clear. I got along with male co workers but I wasn't a flirt. The women who were making it pretty obvious that were willing to "sleep their way up" were, and as a dear friend of mine used to say, "They're fucking it up for the rest of us." I can be very open and friendly in social situations, but not a flirt. Perhaps this is where I'm not comprehending. In my mind the non-sexual friendliness is more graciousness not charm. In my mind "charm" is using a characteristic or attribute or whatever in an effort to "trick" or "deceive" someone to garner favor.

Ms. Harris is blatantly using sexuality in an attempt to be charming, and she uses the "little girl" gestures (the giggling for one example) to take the edge off of the sexual tones. I find it insulting.

I'm not certain of the characteristics of a male being charming. Some find W** charming, but I've never seen it - he's just an arrogant, world-class champion liar. I didn't find Bill Clinton charming. In another post you referenced George Clooney who I don't find charming either. So how would you define traits that you would think of as charming in male behaviors?

And am I understanding what you're getting at or am I waaaay off track?

[Jeffersons Ghost]

49. now i'll take exception tnlefty

bushie is NOT a "world champion liar." If he was good at public speaking (ie) lying, he would have more power and even more in common with "world chaqmpion" liars like Hitler or Stalin.

[tnlefty]

50. I sit corrected! George W. Bush, a lying liar to be sure just not as

smooth as Hitler or Stalin. LOL. Strange tho, approx. 3 yrs. ago my kids and I were watching a program on the History Channel about Hitler and Stalin and my kids were freaking out 'cause they saw a lot of similarities between Dimson** and the aforementioned men. After a couple of days of lots of discussion and reading they decided he seemed more like Stalin.

[DFW]

28. So the lady isn't exactly photogenic

OK, obviously her physical attributes shouldn't be an issue. And the Barbara Mikulski
comment is also valid, because she is one hell of a legislator and a fabulous speaker
with her rough Baltimore working-class humor. I adore her, and no, she is not going
to be on the front page of "Cover Girl" in this lifetime. So what?

But on the other hand, Harris is obviously trying to score a point or two in emphasizing
a physical attribute (as she has no intellectual attribute to offer, I understand her
rationale). That is as sexist as anything else. We have any number of great people in our party
whose political positions I admire, and whose physical qualities are less than film star
level. Not only Mikulski, but people like Jerrold Nadler, who will never grace a weight-
watchers poster except in the "before" column, there are few. As there are guys like Evan
Bach of Indiana, who are poster boys, but just barely in our column. Again, to be a Democrat
in Indiana, you probably can't get elected at all if you don't placate some of the right wing in
the first place.

Harris is disgusting for her dirty politics and phony speaking style. If she thinks she can
score points by emphasizing her bust, let her, but is the man who notices it more sexist than
she is by trying to score points with male voters with it? I don't think so.

[xxqqqzme]

30. look they put models of her breast implants on the table...

wonder why they're red, white and blue?

The faces of the people sitting there are much more interesting than the centerepiece. Look at the guy behind her - his body is turning away from her...the older gent, on the right, at the end of the table, the two women whose expressions are in focus - is that a credit card machine @ the end of the table?

[Quakerfriend]

36. OMG!

:rofl:

Thx for the laugh. I had looked at this earlier but, had not noticed those!!

[warrens]

33. The face of mental illness

That's one sick puppy. And those fucking Repuke SHEEP at the table are worse for encouraging the fascist nutcase.

[WestSeattle2]

41. This just in from John McCain......

"Washington is a Hollywood for ugly people. Hollywood is a Washington for the simpleminded." -Sen. John McCain

[snowbear]

43. Harris looks like Keith Richards' TWIN sister !!!!

[Dunvegan]

44. The caption for this photo says that Harris "dropped" in on a restaurant..

...in Kissimmee, FL to campaign.

So, yes that's probably an ATM...and these people may have or may not have been aware that they were going to be graced by a Harris campaign visit.

So I don't know if these are just random diners surprized to find themselves being campaigned at, or people that came to the restaurant knowing that Ms. Harris was scheduled to be there.