On Al Franken earlier today

[question everything]

I just heard a small part while driving. A guest was talking about how Kerry's advisers relied exclusively on media to spread the message, where his medic consultant pocketed a 15% commission. Never going to the troops on the ground, while Bush's people did. Well, we know that Rove mobilized the churches.

That Kerry spent $11 million on media while Bush only 5.

I don't know who the guest was be he sounded like he has a lot to offer for us to finally make eye contacts with the voters.

Any idea who he was?

[wryter2000]

1. He's Daily Kos

I've forgotten his name, but he's the guy behind Daily Kos.

[question everything]

3. Thanks. No wonder

I would expect the Daily Kos guy to be intelligent and knowledgeable.

[paulk]

12. I wouldn't

Kos worked for the Dean campaign and he's got a major league chip on his shoulder still.

He's known for his anti-Kerry bias and I wouldn't believe a word he says unless he can source it.

and even then I would question his motives ...

[question everything]

13. I did not know that. Interesting, though

as I view the Dean campaign as the prime example of clicking and nodding that can raise a lot of money, but without winning the votes.

The Internet can take one only that far. It cannot substitute talking to the voters face to face.

[Capn Sunshine]

14. Earth to Paul

Kerry lost, Dean didn't get the nomination, and the only reason anyone is pissed is because a golden opportunity to end the madness was effectively squandered, and it sure as hell wasn't the Dean people's fault; we all worked like hell for Kerry.

Including Markos.

[MH1]

17. Well, kos has posted blatant hit pieces on Kerry before.

Lots of Dean people were wonderful in support of Kerry once Kerry got the nomination. That doesn't mean they all were...and some of them just held their animosity in check until after the election. (which was better than not holding it in check at all, I'll admit.)

[Dr Ron]

26. Kos has had multiple inaccurate anti-Kerry posts

He might have supported Kerry in the general election but as soon as the election was over he went back to posting anti-Kerry material full of inaccurate information. Besides making up numbers like these he would also misquote Kerry and then attack Kerry based upon his misquotations.

It's most likely due ot a combination of being on Dean's payroll during the primary campaign, and still being mad about having the link to his site removed from the Kerry site during the campaign after his infamous statement supporting the killing of paid American workers (who he called mercinaries, which might be true) in Iraq.

[MH1]

16. Why?

He has posted wildly inaccurate material, particularly about Kerry. He was a paid blogger for Dean and never got over it, apparently. At least not up til a few months ago. He did seem to settle down a bit after Kerry posted a few diaries there, so maybe he's not doing blatant hit pieces anymore. Still...

[wisteria]

20. Actually he is full of sh*t where Kerry is concerned.

His one purpose is to discredit Kerry whenever possible. Remember, Kerry wasn't Dean and he wasn't paying Kos to promote him. Kerry also removed him from his official site after this Kos guy made ugly comments about the burned bodies of the contractors that turned up charred in Iraq. My word of advise, view anything Kos says about Senator Kerry sceptically. He is anal about the senator.

[MadisonProgressive]

4. Markos Moulitsas Zúniga

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markos_Moulitsas_Z%C3%BAniga

[LittleClarkie]

27. Markos. And he's never forgiven Kerry for beating Dean

I'd listen to him on any other subject. But he has the weirdest blindspot in regards to Kerry. I've caught him talking out his butt about Kerry before, saying Kerry's staffers didn't give a shit about their boss, while Dean's staffers did. It was supposedly just a job to the one group, while the other group was committed. Yeah, dude, that's why one of Kerry's staffers tattooed 11/4/2004 under his watchband.

Sometimes Kos can have interesting things to say. However, sometimes he can be an imamature asshat. He called war protesters hippy dippies. He has issues with feminists. And he hasn't forgotten the primaries of 2004.

I'd prefer a different perspective before I decide who's right.

[question everything]

28. Thank you, I was not aware of this

Still, putting the specifics aside, as others have pointed here, we cannot abandon the face to face meetings and concentrate on the Internet. Especially where rural voters go, where their sole source of information - as was reported in 2004 - was their ministers during church sermons.

[Betsy Ross]

2. I think it was Kos who was speaking about the media.

BTW, * spent 5 million more than Kerry or $6 million. TeeHee, I was at the broadcast this morning in San Francisco.

[TheDebbieDee]

7. I thought Kos said that.....

the Kerry Campaign spent 11 million dollars on commercials and the Bush Campaign only spent 5 million dollars on commercials.

After, * had the MSM touting his virtues at no charge thoroughout the election season!

Not to mention the swiftboat boosters that spewed anti-Kerry crap at every interview and were never challenged except by Lawrence O'Donnell who called them liars outright (O'Donnell was banned from every show until after the election!).

[Sensitivity]

24. The information in this post is wrong. Either misheard or misspoken.

[BrklynLiberal]

5. Face to face will always win votes before media ads and mailings.

That is how Christine Cegilis almost beat Henry Hyde in Illinois, and came within 700 votes of Tammy Duckworth in the 6th district Dem primary even tho Duckworth got all the Party endorsements and outspent Cegilis by a 5 to 1 margin.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/22/AR2006032200381.html

[question everything]

6. Yes. But will our party ever realize this? (nt)

[radio4progressives]

8. Cegalis lost by 700 votes? Sounds like a Recount was in order to me

no wonder she and supporters are upset...

(apart from the obvious, Washington big guns running interference ramming and jamming )

[mopinko]

11. final count was 1000-and change.

and yeah, a recount would be nice. only takes $75,000.

[napi21]

18. WHY does it cost 75,000 for a recount?

I've heard this before, so I'm beating up on you. I still don't understand! What's it take to do a recount? A member of each Party (who could easily be volunteers), 2 independant counters? I don't know who you choose...attorney's, someone from another State, a Judge?

If we're talking about a local race, it sounds absurd to me that it would cost $75,000!!!!

[mopinko]

22. there are 500-something precincts in the 6th

trying to remember how many votes, total, not comin' up on google for me. in the neighborhood of 4-50,000? so, 2 people? it would be a lot of work.
i'm sure it was sold as discouraging frivolous recounts. there are no other criteria. no margin required, no allegations of fraud or error. just cough it up and go.
i believe there are other avenues, but i do not really know how they work. i know there is a route for citizen action of some sort, but i do not know what that is, exactly.

[Crazy Guggenheim]

9. I so believe that. There is nothing you can tell some Democrats

about it!! :mad: :nuke: They think email and the internet is best way! I said something about door to door at DFA meeting once and one guy seemed very very angry that anyone could critcize the internet!! Some of them didn't understand that not everyone has a computer!! INCREDIBLE!! Some of them believe that they form relationships over receiving an email!! I have to say where the Repubs are correct on this is they PHYSICALLY CONTACT THEIR BASE!! The Democrats - with all the touchy feely crap - do not know how to talk, motivate or communicate with people!!

Flame away!!

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

[question everything]

10. Clicking and nodding does not win elections

You can use the Internet to raise money and, if you are well organized and have a dedicated webpage and followers, you can mobilize the troops to attend rallies.

But not much more. Look at Howard Dean in 2004.

In my previous life I was very active in a local issue, that got me to see local politics up close and personal. I would attend many meetings of local government bodies and would often address them. I then learned how to look for campaign fiance statements to "follow the money" and gained important information.

Since then, not only are most meetings televised, but one can download a specific meeting.

I have recently visited my former neighborhood and met with someone who, like me, was watching the money. "Is anyone still going to a meeting, to talk about this, to address the office holders?" I asked. No, he replied. No one.

Thus, a former honorable liberal politician has been playing quick and dirty with public money, but this slate continues to get elected because, my former colleague told me: the people who vote do not read the detailed publications, do not believe them. Just as it used to be back in the 70s, when "60 Minutes" would exposed a crooked politician (often in the South) and yet the supporters would come back and defend him and elect him.

So, yes, going down to the trenches, talking to people, finding out what they need and then address them within the framework of the Democratic principles is the way to win elections. Karl Rove realized it when he gathered the ministers of churches to talk about "baby killers" and "perverts." I have been talking about it at every opportunity on these pages, including yesterday about the immigration rally. If we will not learn this lesson we will lose this year, and we can forget about 2008.

[Capn Sunshine]

15. The strategy you refer to was invented by the Unions.

and I agree totally about face-to- face.

[TayTay]

19. Huh! Kerry won Iowa based on voter-to-voter contact

His media buys were very late and were targeted. I think he knows this lesson pretty well.

[wisteria]

21. Kerry was very grass roots and traveled around the country connecting

with voters in smaller towns. I live in one of the smaller towns he visited. One that Gore didn't even acknowledge existed when he ran in 2000. People where shocked that Senator Kerry would take the time to visit and connect with the local workers. Even at the very end of the campaign, Edwards made an additional appearance here representing both Kerry and himself. Teresa's sons were here too.

Kerry was able to get out more voters than Gore in 2000 and Clinton in 1996 and 1992. Unfortunately, the Bush team used disenfranchisement and lies and deceit to get more votes.

[TayTay]

23. I think the Dem Party as a whole learned from this.

I went to a Democratic Campaign Institute event in Worcester Mass a few weeks ago and there were people there explaining what the new national (and state) emphasis on The Fifty State Strategy was. One of the presentations was done by Parag Mehta, followed by a panel discussion led by current Kerry staffers who were active in the last campaign and by staffers from the '04 primary and general election. They collaborated on the presentation. (As these things go, it was better than a 'What I did on my summer vacation' book report and twice as informative.)

They were all on the same page in terms of strategy to go forward. (This is saw and heard with my own two eyes. Parag had been a Deaniac in the '04 cycle and was a tremendous presenter. I learned a lot from him.) It is my understanding that the money that Sen. Kerry's campaign donated to the DNC was to go just for efforts like this, the care, feeding and training of grassroots.

I can post much more extensive things if you want, but the point is, I think that lesson was learned by all concerned. The Kerry people should have done more of what won them Iowa. This seems to be what they are teaching other Dems, at home and in other states, to do. They are funding it. They learned from the Dean campaign and from their own campaign and from their mistakes. I talked to them about it.

Now, can we all take the lessons and apply them to '06 and beyond with the common goal of electing Dems? I certainly hope so.

[question everything]

25. A lot of wisdom of what you just said

Yes, I do hope that we can take the lessons for 2006 and beyond. And one place is from the immigration rallies, how people do go to the streets when they are moved by issues that are very close to them.

We need to demonstrate to the voters how good schools, decent jobs, retirement, and access to health care are something to be moved by to go and vote.