During visit to Salem, Kerry answers question about Iraq

[LittleClarkie]

among other things...

You can read the article here:

http://www.ecnnews.com/cgi-bin/05/snstory.pl?-sec-News+1k589g0+fn-skerry-20060328-

But the interesting bit for me was a question on Iraq:

"Iraq: "I think we have to get out of Iraq as fast as we can. ... Our guys are in the middle of a civil war. Who's kidding who?"

It appears his opinion of the war contiinues to evolve. I see the Winter Soldier emerging, bit by bit. Anyone else?

[FloridaPat]

1. Talk is cheap. Especially from politicians. Has he voted for censure?

Pushed impeachment? Stopped supporting the funding of the illegal invasion?

[LittleClarkie]

2. Voted for censure? Has it come up for a vote yet?

He pushed for fillibuster. He has stated that he supports Feingold in censure. He's pushed for investigation re: the Downing Street Minutes. He's also made himself a thorn in Bush's side in the media. I will still sometimes here a quote from him on the radio news. That is a good thing. We need more Dems making noise in the media so that the voters know we're here and what we stand for.

[FloridaPat]

3. Hadn't heard he was supporting Feingold. Yes, we need a LOT

more Dems making noise in the media. I like Kerry. I've just had it with these Democrats that run really stupid campaigns.

[blm]

9. Do they run stupid campaigns or does the media edit out most of their

campaign and leave all talk of the issues out of the final cut?

Do you remember Kerry's big speeches on port security? Health care? His attack on the swiftliars in front of the Firefighters Convention?

[FloridaPat]

15. Quit honestly, if it's not mentioned on the internet, I miss it usually.

I don't watch MSM news. I depend on my fellow citizens to bring everything important to DU and other such sites for me to find. I try to bring things here that no one else has found either.

So thank you for keeping track of Senator Kerry.

[LittleClarkie]

16. On duty

:patriot:

I know what you mean about info gathering on DU and such, except I'm worse. I'd rather seek this stuff out myself and get my own take, but I'm 1. lazy and 2. too easily bored. And so I take the short cut and let y'all inform me.

It was a good way for a former sheeple to get up to speed quickly. But sometimes I swallow the red meat whole without chewing, and that's a bad thing.

[MH1]

4. Downing Street Memo is far more important

and more relevant to the Iraq War, than censure for warrantless eavesdropping on Americans. Not that warrantless eavesdropping isn't important - and Kerry has come out strongly agains what * is doing - but it isn't directly relevant to Iraq (which is the subject of the quote in the OP).

Last June Kerry was pushing for investigation of the DSM. He wrote a formal letter to the Inteligence Committee requesting investigation. He circulated it for at least a couple weeks for other senators to sign. Only 9 other senators signed it.

Feingold wasn't one of the 9. Yet then he accuses other Dems of "cowering" because they don't jump right behind his censure resolution in less than two days. (And what is censure but an admonishment, anyway? And what is an admonshment to someone who can't run for re-election and is already so far down in the polls that members of his party won't be seen with him on the campaign trail?)

Yep, talk is cheap.

[blm]

12. I doubt that Feingold would've appreciated it if Kerry called him and

the other Dems "cowering" when they refused to sign DSM letter of inquiry or lead the Alito filibuster.

[MH1]

13. Exactly. n/t

[blm]

8. WTF would you want him to vote on censure? It's the GOPs who want a quick

vote on censure. Dem senators are using censure to force investigation of NSA spying and that is exactly what Feingold said he wanted.

[wisteria]

11. Maybe Censure isn't such a good idea at this time. Isn't it still in

committee anyway?

[welshTerrier2]

5. "I think we have to get out of Iraq as fast as we can"

as fast as we can once benchmarks are met or as fast as we can based only on troop safety?

is Kerry dipping his toe in the water or is he going to really lead on this issue?

his statement "sounds good" but it isn't very clear what he means ...

[TayTay]

6. Unknown, the Salem Evening News cut the clip

and had an ellipsis in the quote. It read as Little Clarkie quoted it.

However, the acknowledgement of full on civil war is significant. The Repubs deny this outright and the news media is skittish about calling the situation in Iraq a civil war. Someone else once testified before the Senate on the idea of getting involved on the futility of getting involved in civil wars in another country.

What Was Found and Learned in Vietnam

We found that not only was it a civil war, an effort by a people who had for years been seeking their liberation from any colonial influence whatsoever, but also we found that the Vietnamese whom we had enthusiastically molded after our own image were hard put to take up the fight against the threat we were supposedly saving them from.

We found most people didn't even know the difference between communism and democracy. They only wanted to work in rice paddies without helicopters strafing them and bombs with napalm burning their villages and tearing their country apart. They wanted everything to do with the war, particularly with this foreign presence of the United States of America, to leave them alone in peace, and they practiced the art of survival by siding with whichever military force was present at a particular time, be it Vietcong, North Vietnamese, or American.

http://www.c-span.org/2004vote/jkerrytestimony.asp

It may be that all the chances that have been given have also been squandered. It may be that it is time to call it what it is, recognize that the US cannot win a civil war, by definition. Perhaps.

[LittleClarkie]

14. I don't see your words in his statement

I think his opinion is evolving. You're quoting an earlier stance. That was before civil war broke out.

I think his words are very clear, and he means exactly what he says. No more. No less. We'll see where his actions lead him though.

[blm]

7. The window of opportunity he and Clark spoke of last year has closed.

And thanks to Bush's refusal to implement the withdrawal plans offered then, there is NO choice left anymore.

This had to be a tough thing for Kerry to say, especially after submitting such a doable withdrawal plan last fall.

[TayTay]

10. The present Admin believed in it's own plan and nothing else

Lots of people gave roughly the same advice to them: The US troop presence is fueling the insurgency, so pull the troops back and decrease their presence. Try and draw other allies who have a stake in Iraq and in not seeing a greater civil war break out use diplomatic efforts to try and help in the area. Tell the Iraq government, in no uncertain terms, that the US presence is temporary and they have to control their own country so they better come to some agreement on how they want to proceed.

The Bush Admin did none of these things. They thought they had God on their side and a huge tactical advantage as well as the ability to bomb people into submission. This is not so. Now there is civil war and the US cannot stop this.

I agree BLM, the windows have closed. Whatever good plans or ideas where on the table blew up with the Golden Mosque in Samarra. We have to start to get the US out as quickly as possible. (Which is a more difficult thing than it sounds. There are safety issues that do make this not 'quick' at all. Sigh! It would still take six months to get the people out. But they have to start.)

It is doubtful that the Bush Admin will see this. The President said last week that he thinks it will be up to some future President to deal with a full withdrawal as he will not.