The clamor about the illegal alien students that walked out in LA

[Gman]

It is so transparently easy to spot when the right wing has seen a green light to go racist without fear of being called racist. Last Saturday's marches and this week's student walkouts in Los Angeles United School District and other cities around the country have been like the gate that opens at a horse race for right wing racism. The racism is always there, always chomping at the bit to get out. And get out it has.

Fueled by Mexican flags carried by students and protesters, an outrage is being expressed by the right wing by declaring the protesters as all illegal aliens. Right wingers are absolutely appalled that these "criminals" would dare fly the Mexican flag during their protests. (One pic probably all have seen by now of the Mexican flag flying over an upside down American flag has sent them over the edge.) They are are apoplectic at the signs and banners that declare that whites are the actual illegal aliens and Mexican(-Americans) are the indigenous people. Man-made geopolitical boundaries and the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo aside, they do have an historical point. Of course the right wing will say America stole the land from Mexico fair and square. WorldNet Daily seems to be leading the charge by cherry-picking a couple of signs and banners to paint the entire protest as an attempt to split off the American Southwest into a new country. That's funny since I thought, these people just want to be treated as anyone else here in America.

As for the student protests, the right wing would have us believe that our schools are being overrun by illegal alien children. A Google Search on "illegal aliens in public schools" yields links to all kinds of right wing sites that declare how horrible the situation is in our schools with illegal aliens. But there is one little hit among all the right wing alarmist websites that says the right wing really doesn't know what they're talking about.

A GAO report in 2004 stated that, in fact, the government really doesn't know how many illegal aliens are in public schools. And, the best they can do is estimate based on assumptions. Of course we all know what happens when one ASS-U-MEs.

But the right wing, being true to itself and it's beliefs, really doesn't care how much they look like complete asses. They equate not being racist with "political correctness" and that is a sign of weakness to them. So they always watch for that chance to express their racism in ways that they claim are not racist. Under the cover of crying "national security" they have found their selves free to attack away at anyone with brown skin or even white skin that favors going easy on illegal aliens. With their knowledge that they are defending Ah-mur-ka safely tucked away in the wasteland of their subconscious mind, they flail away from the safe anonymity of their keyboards.

[sinkingfeeling]

1. Any child born in the USA of illegal immigrant parents is a citizen.

That child has the right to attend public school just the same as the white rich kid.

Note: Please don't use the term 'illegal alien' although I know 'alien' can mean foreigner. I just think the phrase is creepy.

[MH1]

2. Well, I have a big problem with the one pic.

With the Mexican flag flying over the American flag. I believe there is a thread here on the Greatest page about that.

It isn't only racists who were upset by that. I'll welcome folks who want to come to America and work as part of a community. But flying another flag above the flag of the host country is not only illegal (read the Flag Code) but highly offensive. If they think Mexico is better, they should go back to Mexico where they can fly the Mexican flag at the top of the staff legally.

[sui generis]

5. the Flag Code is taught in civics class?

he asked sweetly.

Crime is mostly criminal in its intent, and our perceptions of it in our assumptions.

I don't know if it's customary to fly them the other way around or if The Flag Code is even common knowledge, especially among immigrants.

[Inland]

10. I've never heard of the Flag Code, but I know what was intended.

And so do you, and I don't think there's any sense in pretending otherwise. That too gives ammunition to the right wing.

[sui generis]

11. I'm not pretending

certainly not pretending to know what people are thinking, or their level of education or their intent.

I wasn't in line when they were passing out telepathy and I could give a shit what the right wing ("the enemy") and other boogeyment think, especially if what I think they think means that I have to modify my behavior or stance.

sorry Inland - not grouching at you as much as at the idea. I live on a peninsula of urban reclamation deep in the poorest part of the mexican ghetto in Dallas, and it's a losing battle.

However, I know my neighbors and I know that they're good people with really lousy education or even awareness of political and social conventions. Sometimes they can be pigheaded, intentionally, but most of the time, they just don't know, and it's more than surprising, it's dismaying.

Are there a few button pushers who are angry enough and stupid enough to flip the flags and try to send some "message"? Probably. Who gives a crap, and why waste breath on it. It's a symbol. Either you believe it should mean something or you believe it shouldn't be confused with the idea of a flag. I fall into the latter category.

By giving a damn about flag order, you make flags important, and they. Are. Not.

[Inland]

12. You can say the message isn't important, but you know what it is.

I mean, it's not a manifesto, but it was meant to say something negative about the US vis a vis Mexico. Simple as that.

Now, whether it is important, of course it isn't....except in a march in the context of a debate about who should live in the US and why, because then what one thinks about the US vis a vis Mexico is the reason to want to immigrate, for one, and one's attitudes about the US is relevant to deciding whether to let the immigration, for two.

It might be just a few people, but hey, their own confusion and mixed messages have resonated on DU long enough so that it's clearly not just about them, but a greater confusion and mixed message about immigration and, now, even the simple act of patriotism.

[sui generis]

16. I'm not entirely sure I understand which side you're taking

but I do know this:

Every time a republican says "look, over there, that's important" and we go fight about whether it is or isn't, they win.

Unless every person in that protest is carrying a flag combo like that, the flag carriers do not speak for every person in the protest. If they are trying to send a message, then they're being opportunistic, and the flagbearers should still be ignored. They too are a symbol easily confused with the referent.

There are many flags, but a limited number of protests. Flags are not the issue, no matter how many republicans say they are, and the perceived "patriotism" of the flag bearers should not be generalized to anybody but the bearer of the flag.

That's all I'm saying -

[Inland]

17. Because you went off on a tangent

of pretending that the meaning was indiscernible. I don't think anyone is going to buy THAT one.

It is, of course, so my position is no. 8 below.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Inland]

22. How can you know I was saying that?

What are you, telepathic? You are taking it all pretty hard, so feel free to leave it at that.

[sui generis]

25. in the interest of clarification

and putting a patch on this

"pretending that the meaning was indiscernible. I don't think anyone is going to buy THAT one"

Please understand that when someone says "you were pretending" and "THAT one", it comes across as an accusation of dishonesty or at the least passive aggressive. I don't like coquettishness myself, but generally I don't accuse someone of dishonesty unless I'm utterly certain they're being evil.

Would you speak like that to me in person without being directly provoked? Or would you carefully clarify first? That's the standard.

[Inland]

26. I don't care for the coquette myself.

And there was a dollop of the disingenous in the assertion of an inability to know what was intended. And yes, in person, I would have laughed out loud and said, "come on! There's a mexican flag, over an upside down american flag....and you say you JUST CAN'T FIND ANY MEANING?!?! Do you think they were merely running up flags randomly at that particular time, as part of some after school activity?" That's not asking for clarification. That's asking out of astonishment that you would dare assert it to me as if I would believe it.

As I said repeatedly, you can say there's nothing important about it, but you can't seriously expect me to believe that you really think there wasn't meaning intended.

[sui generis]

27. well again I didn't know there was an upside down u.s. flag

I just thought the order of the flags had been reversed. So to restate, yet again, I was not being intentionally stupid, just underinformed.

Assumptions - you know the drill.

[Inland]

23. How can you know I was saying that?

What are you, telepathic? You are taking it all pretty hard, so feel free to leave it at that.

[MH1]

20. "Just a few people"

In a large, organized march, the organizers - who usually do have a pretty sound education - should have said something and asked them to not do that - BECAUSE it makes the movement look bad - and distracts from the message that they want to impart.

Maybe the organizers didn't notice in this case (or were unable to do anything about it). I understand that is possible, so while I find the display offensive, I haven't been all over the blogs ranting about it, either. My main point was just that it is not necessarily "racist" to object to such a display of the flag.

Thanks for backing me up. :thumbsup:

edited for clarification.

[Inland]

24. Somehow, the more obvious something is, the

more umbrage people feel. That's immigration, apparently.

One can't take a huge march and call it the march's symbol. it happened, it has to be acknowledged as happened, and I think what I said is exactly right. It's at best a mixed message. To call it "just a symbol" doesn't change that, because symbols ARE messages, or pretend one doesn't necessarily see a meaning, is asking people to be dumb, not the best tactic. Symbols are INTENDED to send a message, not a manifesto, but a message of some kind. Any of the possible ones gave the right wing an opening and now it has to be explained.

[Bridget Burke]

29. The issue has "resonated" at DU...

Because a few diehards keep posting the same thing, over & over.

Most of us GOT the message--mixed or not. We can also walk & chew gum simultaneously.

[sui generis]

3. dead on with your analysis

republicans hate minorities, whether they're "illegal" or not.

Any excuse to do it openly is a great excuse.

[DBoon]

4. If the southwest becomes the nation of Aztlan

then that means we are rid of Bush forever?

Sign me up! Getting rid of Bush is worth learning Spanish!

[NoPasaran]

18. You mean Bush, the Connecticut Yankee?

Sorry, you're stuck with him!

[DBoon]

21. Even in southern california?

?

[squarepants]

6. My opinion....

and this is only my opinion, is that I understand how some people feel about the illegal immigrant situation. Honestly, I do not understand what is so horrible about someone becoming a LEGAL citizen if they decide to stay in ANY country. There is no way in the world that I could go to Mexico or any other country and just stay there without going through the legal process, and then when that country's government finds out I'm there illegally, I get mad about it. Not only would they deport my butt, but I wouldn't be able to just dip my hands into all of their social programs, not being a citizen. I might not even have a problem with someone (doesn't matter what color you are) being here illegally if they supported themselves. But many people come here illegally and get many social programs just handed to them, meant to go to the ones who do live here legally, and I don't think that is fair. There are so many people here (born here or are here legally) who can't even pay for their perscriptions, heating/air, food, etc, and there is only so much money put into those social programs to begin with. I think the people born here or are legal should get help first, and THEN if there is anything leftover, we should help everyone else. I'm sorry to say, but I can say with a fact (from experience in my own family) that illegals get those programs much easier than legals do. If I went to Mexico or anywhere else, do you really think they'd shove their own people aside to help someone who isn't even supposed to be there (not legal) to begin with? I'm not saying they wouldn't help me, but NOT at the expense of their own citizens. And if I have offended anyone by saying this, let me state for the record that no, I am not white. I am black. I've just stated my viewpoint on this situation.

[Minnesota Libra]

7. Why is it when someone disagrees with ..........

.....an accepted idealogical line that they are labeled ".....right wing has seen a green light to go racist....."?

The issue of illegal aliens is the only issue I know of that I have consistently disagreed with Democrats/Liberals/Progressives on. For me it gets down to the basics, ILLEGAL versus LEGAL, that's it. So many people want to add this issue, that issue, some other issue but it's legal versus illegal. When I and others agree with the accepted beliefs on everything else we are give kudos up and down. Yet disagree with this one issue and all of a sudden we are "right wing this and that" and worse yet we are even labeled "racist".

To put the whole issue on a level we can all understand, let's bring it to our own home/apartment door. Would anyone allow someone to move in to their home, bags and baggage, UNINVITED? Would anyone here then accept those same INVITED people to dictate to us what their living arrangements were going to be??

[Inland]

8. Sure would have helped if the marchers hadn't mixed messages.

Just saying. Flying a Mexican flag alone, much less above an upside down US flag, is not consistent with a message of a march that is meant to allow more people wanting to be American be American. It just isn't.

Can't help it if right wing racists are able to hide behind a legitimate mixing of messages.

[Bridget Burke]

13. Michelle Malkin agrees with you.

ONE photo sets both of you off. At least she's getting paid for it.

[Inland]

15. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

I can't help it if she sees something entirely obvious, and as much as I'd like to disagree with her, denying the obvious only makes her look smarter than me. So I won't.

[Karenina]

14. Upside down flag...

made in China. :rofl:

[Inland]

9. Dupe.

[NVMojo]

28. the right wing has always held its racist values in high position

[Bridget Burke]

30. And that's not a "mixed message"

It's quite obvious.