What my nursing supervisor said today.

[blue cat]

She said it was wrong for people to talk against Bush, and it looks horrible to other countries, and what must they think. I can't remember more of her rant, because my hands started shaking in anger. What would you say or do in the future when she brings this up? She has before, so I want to be ready. I said in a democracy, we should speak up, and that our media kept much negative stuff about Bush from us anyway.

[lwcon]

1. Sounds to me...

... like you said exactly the right thing. Well done!
___

Hey, the liberal light is always on at the Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy. Please stop by and say "hi!"

[Book Lover]

2. I would try to point out

that we really shouldn't care what other nations think of us. I mean, isn't that the conservative point of view?

[China_cat]

3. I think I'd say that our politics have no place

in caring for our patients and go take care of one who needs you.

[peacebird]

Abu Ghraib & Gitmo look horrible to people in other countries.

Fallujah looks horrible to people in other countries. Hearing Americans criticize the policies of this administration must be a relief to people in other countries - lest they think the entire country is populated by madmen like Bush.

[Horse with no Name]

4. Tell her unequivocally

That the other countries already know how horrible he is.
Tell her to take a look at the foreign press.

[bliss_eternal]

8. ...and they know this because of the way he expresses himself.

They know he's an idiot, a misogynist, a religious nutcase, an inarticulate boob. In other countries, how a man or woman express themselves has as much to do with how they govern their nation. He hasn't won any friends by the way he speaks--we don't have to say a thing.

:hi:

[rodeodance]

5. get some articles related what other countries/leaders think of Bush

[villager]

6. I would give her *this quote* from *Republican* President Teddy Roosevelt:

"The President is merely the most important among a large number of public servants. He should be supported or opposed exactly to the degree which is warranted by his good conduct or bad conduct, his efficiency or inefficiency in rendering loyal, able, and disinterested service to the Nation as a whole. Therefore it is absolutely necessary that there should be full liberty to tell the truth about his acts, and this means that it is exactly necessary to blame him when he does wrong as to praise him when he does right. Any other attitude in an American citizen is both base and servile. To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. Nothing but the truth should be spoken about him or any one else. But it is even more important to tell the truth, pleasant or unpleasant, about him than about any one else."

"Roosevelt in the Kansas City Star", 149

[Jacobin]

34. perfect response

[JuniperLea]

7. It looks worse to other countries...

That Bush attacked a sovereign nation without cause or provocation and lied to Congress, the UN, all American citizens and the entire world in order to do it.

That Bush ignored the UN on numerous occasions, effectively snubbing his nose at the rest of the world.

That Bush won't take care of his own people... New Orleans and most of the gulf coast is still a wreck.

That Bush is eliminating people from the list of eligible voters left and right.

That Bush's cronies are making money hand over fist because of this illegal war.

That Bush lies daily... he forgets we have print and video records of him saying one thing and then saying the opposite.

It is patriotic to question your leaders; that is why we have a USA to begin with. The Constitution calls for checks and balances; Bush does everything he can to get around that process.

Tell her to read foreign press and see what the rest of the world thinks of us and why they think that way! BUSH IS A LYING CRIMINAL! It is morally reprehensible to support this murderer.

Ok, now I'm shaking in anger. I can't believe otherwise intelligent people are falling for this blatant manipulation.

[blue cat]

9. Thanks to all who responded

Just walked in from work and I'm feeling quite perturbed. We were just chatting, and she is my supervior. I feel like I'm on a mission now to say things in front of her against Bush. The doctors at the clinic hate Bush, so I don't think she could do anything about it but not like me. I think I will ask her if she heard that Bush said that he never linked Saddam to 911.

[guidod]

10. You're not going to change her mind,

tell her that you'ere not comfortable talking about politics at work. You'll have less headaches.

[blondeatlast]

47. Precisely. The OP did offer an excellent response, but I agree with you

unequivocally.

I'm in a unique position to discuss politics in my worrkplace in that all my office colleagues and in fact nearly the entire workplace agrees with mine, so disagreements tend to be very minor.

But in general I was taught not to discuss politics or religion in social settings unless I could be very certain that most would agree with me.

Just one more reason I love DU!

[Dead_Parrot]

11. Other countries think...

...that Bush is a small-minded, thieving murderer.
Other countries are quite happy with the idea of our leaders being held responsible.
Other countries wish the US would be more like us, and less like North Korea.
Other countries have not forgotten Carter or Clinton, and view the current clusterfuck as a passing phase.
Other countries have not forgotten that there are still sane people in the US, and look forward to them taking charge again.
Other countries think your supervisor is a fucking moron, and should shut the hell up.

[pinto]

12. Free speech is a cornerstone of any Democracy and most of the world

recognizes, and admires that.

It doesn't look horrible to other countries, it looks horrible to her - that's the issue - but as she's your supervisor it may be best to let that go.

[plusfiftyfive]

13. Tell her to do her job.

Tell her you will file an harrassment suit against her, for interfering in your workplace. Tell her that if she has such a poor understanding of workplace regulations about mixing politics into the workplace, that she probably doesn't deserve the job she has, and that she probably will feel better when you denude her of her rank and authority over you for engaging in what is no less thanharrassment and intimidation in the worlplace. Tell her that if she doesn't stop this harrassment you will have no other alternative than to seek her removal from her obviously undeserved position.

Tell her that she must have failed all her civics and history courses, and that she has, by her actions, proved that she doesn't know what the limits of responsibility of her job is, and that makes her incompetent!

Tell her that if you are forced to sue her, you will take away every shred of her material posessions and leave her without a career, a career for which she is obviously untrained and untaleted, since she is engaging in alienating behaviors instead of team building.

Tell her she is nothing less than a terrorist for imposing her views upon you at a workplace.

[blue cat]

16. Actually

I'm on the internet because I'm a triage phone nurse, so I'm always checking the DU and dailykos at every free moment, and talk with those nurses around me who feel the same way. I won't stop talking about it, but will just make comments to the doctors in front of her, since they love dogging Bush too. Her husband doesn't like Bush. I've also heard her say negative stuff about Clinton, but she seems to have a hero worship thing with Bush.

[blue cat]

18. I'm going to ask her tomorrow

who shouldn't speak negative about Bush? I'm not getting what she is saying.

[snowbear]

29. Send her over here.. we'll tell her for you!

~~~~

Your boss shouldn't be discussing politics in the workplace anyway!

[July]

33. So it was okay to criticize a president when it wasn't the one she voted

for?

Nice double standard.

[GardeningGal]

44. So, did she feel the same way when Clinton was president?

She never spoke badly about Clinton because of how it would look to other countries? Yeah, right.

[ikojo]

14. I would say and have said the same thing.

Just today a couple of co-workers and I got into a discussion about the war on Iraq. Both of them voted for Bush in 2000 and 2004 (neither is rich and both are working class). One of them said that the troops do not need to be in Iraq NOW. I said they shouldn't have been sent there in the first place and that Saddam Hussein had no connection to the events of 9/11/01. They remained silent. I continued and said people were dying for a lie and that it's a disgrace that a president was impeached for a blow job and Bush remains in office.

Again silence.

[blue cat]

20. Good for you.

I do plan on saying something, because it bothers me. I know that I won't change her mind, but I have to say something.

[BurgherHoldtheLies]

15. Tell her, as a nurse, she should read The Republican War on Science

Unless of course she opted out of biology in college for the alternative intelligent design class.

[xchrom]

17. it isn't a democracy if the government isn't open

and free to being looked -- other wise how would any one know if there was anything wrong?

i don't get these simple fucks -- ask her if she criticized clinton?

[blue cat]

19. Hell yes she critized Clinton

seemed gleeful when he had his heart attack. Not kidding.

[xchrom]

22. there you go then.

tell she wants her bread buttereed on both sides -- and she's got sticky fingers.

she can't live in the country she wants without openness -- so she's a hypocrite and a liar.

tell her.

[ikojo]

24. I'll bet she calls herself a christian

as well and feels being a nurse is christlike.

These people make me sick!

[snowbear]

30. Even though Bush is NOT a Christian !!!

Karl Rove does a good job of creating whatever image he wants to though, doesn't he?

[OKDem08]

27. Blue Cat, in response to the comment that Americans

shouldn't criticize, you might point out the Hitler would have LOVED to have an entire citizenry of people just like her - docile & mindlessly compliant idiots.

[nashville_brook]

21. b/c being employed is important... he's what i've done in the past...

everytime your idiot boss says something harrassing like that, turn around and give $20 to the nearest and dearest democrat. or public radio. or do what you did and share it here.

point is -- don't risk your job.

[blue cat]

26. I'm confident in my skills, and my beliefs

I do plan on somehow asking her who shouldn't speak against Bush. If it came down to losing my job, I could always get another. I understand that many would worry about losing their jobs, but nurses are too much in demand anyway. I doubt that I would lose my job, since I've heard stuff like Cheney is evil, etc. from the doctors who loathe Bush. Doctors trump a nursing supervisor.

[nashville_brook]

40. then, play the game above-board, first

report her for harrassment -- creating an atmosphere of ill-will. i know that as a patient who has depended on the goodwill of nurses (so much more than my docs!) that the last thing i need to hear is that my nurse adheres to a political dogma that might get in the way of my care.

how is she around gay patients? how is she around the charity patients?

find a way to DO HER IN, thru the system. get the DEM DOCS on your side. play the game.

and... major kudos for your courage!

[thethinker]

23. What looks horrible to other countries

is Bush's actions - not our words.

[sandnsea]

25. It's wrong to talk against the Constitution

It looks horrible to other countries and what must they think when we talk against our own Constitution. These poor people are desperate to have a Constitution that could check their dictators and that's why we need to stand up for Congress and the separation of powers and the First Amendment and freedom of the press and freedom of speech.

[TrogL]

28. It depends if you're running a democracy, theocracy or dictatorship

In the first, you brag about your open media. Even when the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation was government-owned, it was notorious for biting the hand that fed it.

Even in a theocracy, there is still a bit of wiggle room, but you still need to avoid getting burned at the stake for heresy.

In a full-blown dictatorship, speaking against the leader will get your head handed to you.

[July]

31. Tell her to watch the UK Houses of Parliament on TV,

or read up on other countries where politics is a sport. Ask her why THEY are free to criticize their leaders, while in "the home of the brave" no one dares.

[Mz Pip]

32. One should not confuse dissent

with disloyalty. As good Americans it is our duty to hold our government accountable. Blind allegiance to an incompetent president is not patriotism. It's stupidity.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[Disturbed]

35. It must be awful to have to work with someone...

that is so opposite in views from yours. Having read all the advice here I really like the Teddy Roosevelt comments. I suggest copying that off and the next time she says something just hand that to her and watch her face.

[Jade Fox]

36. Actions speak louder than words....

Nothing we could say about Bush would make the world dislike him as much as his actions have. Other countries are actually pleased to know all Americans to not support him.

[Lisa]

37. it looks horrible to other countries, if Americans blindly support

... the things which Bush's administration is doing. While we understand that he has put you all in an awkward position, and that there is a degree of personal investment (so people may be reluctant to admit that they regret their vote?) -- since you're in a democracy, there shouldn't be any disgrace attached to changing your mind after seeing how things turned out. Unless you happen to be a close relative of his (or feel you owe him one, due to any kindness he may have shown to you personally) you shouldn't feel guilty about criticizing him in public.

After all, America was founded on principles which include the assumption that it is perfectly okay, even laudable, to frankly and openly express your opinion of your own government.

I suppose it's possible that some Americans approve 100% of Bush's approach to international treaties, the war in Iraq, the war in Afghanistan, finances, disaster response, political corruption, or civil liberties. However, even many of his supporters and former employees have expressed discontent with at least one of these areas. It's very difficult for those of us on the outside to reconcile all of these things with the image of the US as an idealistic, friendly place. Extremists like bin Laden might try to convince potential supporters that Americans approve of everything their government has been doing, but I firmly believe the vast majority of non-Americans have a different take on it.

First, Americans might not know about the bad news. (If they start asking questions, this signals the rest of us that it's not a case of them not caring.) Second, as painful as it is to confront, their society may not be as democratic and open as they, and the rest of the world, have believed. (If they are openly disagreeing with their government, this sends the message that something has gone wrong, and they are trying to fix it ... it's also a warning that if someone has been going against the wishes of the population, everybody else is vulnerable to that kind of thing too. If it can happen in the US, it could also happen in Canada, or Britain, or any other society that wants to see itself as a democracy.)

So my point is that, far from looking bad, dissent actually looks GOOD to non-Americans. It breaks the stereotype of Americans being uninformed, or uncaring -- and also offers the hope that people are trying to do something about the situation. I totally agree that the US has a reputation to maintain in the world ... and by speaking out, even individuals can contribute to this! The concept that anybody could speak out, and that the ideas, if they held up to scrutiny, would be adopted by the society -- this is no small thing, and even if Americans didn't come up with it first, you did play a key role in popularizing it for the rest of the world.


p.s. Logically, I don't think her argument holds up to scrutiny. But -- besides the fact that she's your supervisor ... until your promotion comes through, that is! -- it might shatter the poor woman's view of reality if she were confronted with that. She might faint, or something.

[salin]

38. Did she feel the same way when folks spoke out against Clinton?

If so, at least she is consistent. Did she speak out against such talk as to shut it down? If so, then she is at least consistent, and per her as an individual I would respect her and not get into such discussions around her. (Some folks are prudish/per dissent, and if consistent - it is easiest to just not engage - however most folks are NOT that consistent.) If not consistent, I would get into the writers' of the constitutions belief per the importance of free speech, including dissent - and why historically it has been important, including places where it has been disallowed - a whole food for thought sort of discussion.

[OzarkDem]

39. Does she care about where her paycheck comes from?

If she cared, she would realize that Bush is destroying her means to earn a living and causing her patients to go without health care and die.

In the end, for many, its a paycheck issue.

[rman]

41. What will other countries think if Americans have a criminal for president

and not speak out about it?

[wicket]

42. Print out this quote from Teddy Roosevelt for her:

To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. Nothing but the truth should be spoken about him or any one else. But it is even more important to tell the truth, pleasant or unpleasant, about him than about any one else."

"Roosevelt in the Kansas City Star", 149
May 7, 1918

http://www.theodoreroosevelt.org/life/quotes.htm

[saltpoint]

43. Maybe tell this person that Mr. Bush has made his own bed and must

lie in it.

Of course he lies all the time, so the concept should be clear enough.

I don't blame you one bit for feeling the way you do when a supervisor rises to Bush's defense.

You might just say that traditionally U.S. assaults on sovereign soil have ended badly, that the military itself thinks this is headed the same direction, and that historians will not look favorably on a commander in chief who lied to commit the nation to violence.

Your feelings against the president and his policies are mild compared to other countries' views of Bush/Blair and the Iraq war. No U.S. citizen needs to speak against Bush for Europeans or Bolivians or Thais to realize that Dubya and Dick and Rummy are walking red flags.

[SteppingRazor]

45. Tell her speaking out isn't the problem, Bush's actions are...

It's not that other countries think badly of us because we speak out against our president. They think badly of us becuase of torture, lies, and an illegal war.

[mr blur]

46. Tell her that, as a person from another country,

I rely on people like you to let me know that some of America is in good shape and that we feel that it's Bush who is destroying the reputation of the US worldwide, not the people who are against him. People like that don't seem to realise that it's the absence of criticism of Bush which astonishes others, not the presence of it. The rest of the world isn't fooled by Bush, and we don't expect Americans to be, either.

We all know that the US didn't invent freedom or democracy and we all know that criticising the government is a vital part of the democratic process.

[Zimmy44]

48. Not at work

Frankly, I don't think politics belongs at work very much, esp. when you know the people you work with have opposing views.