The world outside of DU -- what's going on out there?

[lwcon]

Do y'all engage in political discussions at other sites that aren't officially party-specific?

I was looking around some like myspace, and it seemed the majority of people profiled themselves as some kind of quasi-righty centrist Libertarian with a couple of cherry-picked liberal social issues.

I went into another site's forum seeking lefties and was mostly beseiged by guys out of Deliverance.

Is that what you're seeing OUT THERE?
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[ChairmanAgnostic]

1. one place is kinda cool, another is so righteous winged, that I prey for

cheney and his shotgun.
I snoop there only to see how bad it can get.

[ChazII]

2. Shiachat

is an interting place to visit. However, reading is all that I do since I just want to read their views and not engage in a discussion. For me, it is easier to learn by their dialogue between themselves.

[flobee1]

3. Its really a touchy subject

And a lot of other forums wont allow it to be discussed because it often turns nasty and the moderators dont really want the trouble

There is one place I am a member of that does let its members talk politics.
Just a small site, just over a hundred members, and we all know each other from attending various sportscar races. For only having a hundred or so members, it still gets pretty heated at times-and being an unmoderated forum, you know exactly what everyones view is, good or bad.

It seems lately that all democrats and a lot of republicans are turning away from Bush

[lwcon]

8. Are you talking NASCAR or another type?

Pardon my northeastern elistist bias here, but I'd be very pleasantly surprised to find out that NASCAR in't as rock-ribbed Republican as we're led to believe.

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[Deja Q]

4. I have observed humans in their regular daily lives.

The majority are clearly discontent with the actions of Congress.

The majority are clearly discontent with the actions of this President.

Though of the two, people are more vocal about Congress in general.

Many within the majority are simply grateful that they have another day and know things are about to change. I agree with them on this standpoint; there is no logic in becoming angry over something that cannot be changed. It takes time and energy from what's left to us that we should be enjoying.

Many within the majority do not like this new "culture" the USA is developing, regarding offshoring and the halt of product quality.

Some within the majority (the Libertarian faction) see no problem with offshoring, despite otherwise being angry at our politicians and even talking "revolution". :wow: They scare me... though one of Libertarians I have been conversing with has compelled me to kick my rear in gear, in terms of career pursuits. Life depends on change and nothing can be static. That promotes stagnation, and in that he is correct. While I do not know which career is safest, if there is such as thing as safety or if there are politicians who will back up their claims of ensuring our country remains safe... but I am less certain IT is my future. My next career will be artistic or scientific in nature. I enjoyed science in high school, but upon graduating, IT looked the most viable field as a trade. (oops)

But I digress.

And the ironic part is: Most of the just happen to be Republicans. And the amount of Republican voters calling Bush "stupid" is interesting. Of course, I surmise Bush's actions may be deliberate despite their incongruity - making his detractors the stupid ones. I dunno, really.

[lwcon]

10. I live in the suburbs and...

The so-called independents/Libertarians I talk to are either ultra-thinly veiled Republicans or disaffected youths who are too cool for the Democrats' school.


Most of the people around here are fairly apathetic and/or are more or less Republicans. They have little outrage about anything going on at the national or international level. And this is in Massachusetts.

Naturally, my friends are mostly lefties, but the average guy I sit next to at a diner or who struts around naked for hours at a time in the gym locker-room is a Bushie all the way.

Did I just admit I sit in a gym locker-room for hours at a time surrounded by naked Republican men?
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[Joanne98]

21. I don't think Bush is stupid either. He's more deranged to me.

[underpants]

26. I'll add - it seems to me that no one wants to talk about politics

I noticed this a few days ago. I hear almost no chatter amongst Republicans that I know about anything political-they surely don't want to talk about the war. I expect to hear little bits about the topic of distraction for this week but I hear none. No e-mails or political talk at all.

Talk radio-when I have tuned in- the local variety at least only are talking about local issues (which is good in a way) and stear well clear of anything having to do with Bush or DC.

[wyldwolf]

5. the word outside of DU or the ONLINE world outside of DU?

Offline world:

Hillary Clinton is the early frontrunner for the Democratic Presidential nomination.
Evan Bayh is getting standing ovations at Southern JJ Dinners.
Local Democratic groups are meeting monthly and weekly to plan canvassing for the '06 elections.
60% of Democrats would support censure of Bush. 30% wouldn't.
50% of voters want the Democrats to control the House.

[lwcon]

6. I meant the online world, but...

it's always great to hear what you all are seeing day-to-day in the real OUT THERE.

I was just struck to see so many of the young 'uns (something I'm not) at myspace try to finess some sort of "I'm a closet Republican but want to maintain indie cred" self-styled Libertarianism. Even ones who slant Left seem to be either wishy-washy about it, or they've jumped past the Democratic party into "all politicians are corporate-industrial Nazis, so what's the difference?"
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[darkmaestro019]

7. That's why I stay here.

I read HuffPo and a few other choice sites daily, but I don't post there. If I want to be screamed at by bigoted dolts I can just go to the mall.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

9. All I have to do is write my username

and I find out immediately how the people who frequent so-called "open politically" boards are closed when it comes to Muslims and Islam. Frankly, I think some of the postings at those sites could be used by fundamentalist mullahs to "prove" that the USA is out to destroy Islam. Luckily, I know that those boards don't represent a majority of people here in the US. But on the other hand, the knuckle draggers at such sites don't seem to realize that their opinions are read around the world, and can be used by those forces they oppose as recruiting devises for fundamentalist causes. On the other hand, I really think that some of those knuckle draggers really do want an all out war -- as long as they only have to fight with their keyboards.

[lwcon]

12. Worst of times, best of times?

There's simply too much Arab/Muslim-bashing in talk radio and right-wing (and supposedly neutral) blogs to ignore it. It's a national shame.

I agree that a lot of those knuckle-draggers will only cheer on "kicking some Muslim ass" from the comfort of their trailers. However, I'm sure there are plenty of others who go to recruiting stations so they can do it for real.

If you haven't seen it, check out the documentary "Why We Fight" (the new one, not the old Frank Capra WWII movies). It poignantly tells the story of a retired NY cop whose son died in 9/11, and how his blood-lust made him avidly support the war in Iraq (until the president grudgingly admitted that it had nothing to do with 9/11).

And somehow, while the racist, jingoistic intolerance rages, in many other ways we see real signs of enlightenment here. Unprecedented acceptance of all ethnicities in all walks of life and of the equality of women, tolerance for gays and racially mixed marriages, etc. -- regardless of how much some people and a right-wing biased news media love to play wedge-issue games. These issues have hardly been resolved into a progressive panacea, and maybe America isn't as far along on all of these as a few other countries, but we have to admit they've all gotten much better here than in, say, 1955.


Just curious... as I type, I'm not sure how you, as a Muslim, would feel about those changes in American society I just mentioned. Would you agree that they represent progress, or does that sound like decadence to your ears? I'm not trying to give you a hard time, I am curious to know. Naturaly, I don't expect that you speak for all Muslims. Just one Muslim American (?) to one secular American, if you wouldn't mind.

Thanks!
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[ayeshahaqqiqa]

19. I'm a Sufi initiate living in a red state

In the reddest part of that red state. And yet, side by side with those who want to "kill them A-rabs" is a growing number of mystics of all faiths; my Sufi order is universal in scope, in that it recognizes all paths lead to God. In my work with the Dances of Universal Peace, I see more and more people who see all people, regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, or religion as simply brothers and sisters with their own paths to walk. Actually, I am feeling rather hopeful now; I sense a great change in consciousness coming, where brother/sisterhood is the norm, and fear and divisivness is kept at a minimum.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

20. Hi.......

On occasion I have the chance to speak to congregations of Catholics here where I live (western Wa state). In my presentation I use an old Sufi prayer which sums things up beautifully. Perhaps you know it? It goes like this..

"Past the poor, the sick and the suffering walked he who asked, "God, why don't you do something for these people?"
To which God replied, "I did do something. I made you"

Peace :)

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

24. Thank you for this gift

That was a prayer I had not heard before. Thank you for sharing.

Love O8)

[Joanne98]

22. Everybody keeps saying there is a "change of consciousness"

coming. Some people saying we are going from the 4th world to the 5th world. Looks like this is going to be a hot topic in a couple of years. Do Sufi's have any prophecies on times of change?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

23. Funny you should ask that

Just got my copy of "Heart and Wings", the magazine of my Order. There was an article by Shehabbadin Less on a change in consciousness from individual to group consciousness. I read it through once and will have to read it again to start to absorb all the information therein.

[CJCRANE]

14. The irony

is that B*sh is very strongly tied to muslim elites in SA, UAE etc.

He would never attack those countries because they're his main business partners.

The RW propagation of Islamophobia is just a ruse, if you notice the countries that B*shco criticizes
(formerly Iraq, now Iran and Syria) primarily have in common that they do business with Russia, China, Europe more than the US.

[lwcon]

17. Of course the key word is "elite"

I imagine those leaders have as much to do with the typical Muslim experience as Skull-and-Bones Bush has to do with his biggest fan, Joe Six-Pack.
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[Minnesota Libra]

11. These days it's much easier to engage people on political .......

....issues because of gas prices, Bush himself, and what is going on in Iraq. It seems people are more willing to talk about their particular views and have a little rant now and then. So I engage them and find that most people out there in middle America are pretty centrist. Some people seem to view the far right wing - with all the neocons/fundies - as dangerous for us all. On the other hand, people simply laugh at the far left wing and don't take them seriously. The one thing I find is people have not forgotten or forgiven Nader.

I also find most people view the ACLU as an evil joke that needs to be put out of existence ASAP. On the other hand I find many people want religion recognized in daily life but they definitely don't want the fundies brand of religion. They still see the need for at least some separation of church and state.

So basically it's a mixed bag that put most people squarely in the middle of the political spectrum.

[lwcon]

13. Do you think the right-leaning centrists are ready to tip the other way?

I've been working this theory that the tough part of Bush-buyer's remorse is going to be getting those folks to feel okay about themselves if they turn their back on the disastrous policies they directly or tacitly supported:

http://vastleft.blogspot.com/2006/03/how-to-win-elections-and-influence.html

In other words, to paraphrase John Kerry, "how do you tell yourself that you made someone die for a mistake?"

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[Minnesota Libra]

18. Well, I've discovered that........

....DU members as well as the general public all have a million and one excuses about why they choose to go along with a certain policy at the time. It sounded good the way it was presented, I was lied to, other details have since come to light, on and on. So getting people to simply out and out admit they were wrong is next to impossible.

On the other hand, finally admitting we didn't listen to those red flags that went up on any given issue is tough because then we put ourselves in the position to be attacked not for our ideas but personally attacked. I've definitely experienced this in the last week-and-a-half because my views on one particular issue differ from those of the accepted stance of the far left. I don't know of anyone who wants to be personally attacked for ideas that differ from someone else's idea of "the party message".

So getting people to completely give up whatever ideas they once had on any given issue is a tough one because of the price they may pay later.

[muse]

15. I'm so 100% dem

So, I like it here.

Always have been all about being a democrat. I should probably "get out" a little more and try and understand what is motivating other liberals, progressives, etc. so that I know how to talk to them.

I do have my list of other forums, blogs that I read and ocassionally post to, but I usually scurry back here pretty quickly when it gets weird.

[lwcon]

16. The schism between right and left has become so huge...

It's generally just self-abuse to listen to those other guys.

But naturally we think a lot about how to get those in the middle into our camp -- which has been amazingly hard, despite a freaking mountain of reasons why we're better than the crooks and incompetents in power. This is, I think, the subtext of a huge portion of what we talk about here.

[LWolf]

25. Yes. No.

My cyber time is limited, so I spend a little time at DU, and a little time in places that I can read and discuss progressive issues without partisanship. There are places that do that quite well.

[BlackVelvet04]

27. I'm an administrator on another message board

that is primarily liberals but is open to anyone. We have a couple of righties and an anarchist.

[lwcon]

28. How do the righties play there?

As I mentioned in another thread, this is how I found the "debates" with righties to go:

It's a bore debating with them, though. They've just got nothin'. They own the whole government, and they're screwing up so obviously, the only refuge they have is to change subjects, intentionally misinterpret some tiny detail and rail about that (while ignoring all the substance of what you're saying), or puffing their chests and saying something about us loving the terrorists.

Every time, I feel like the principal in Billy Madison:

"What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

In the past, I've had some legitimate policy debates with conservatives. I'm not sure if it's the nature of these boards and their clientele, or the fact that there are no "the Democrats are the ones who screwed things up" excuses available to them anymore, but I found encountering these folks to be a complete waste of time.
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