If Hillary's name wasn't Clinton,how strong of a candidate would she

[madmunchie]

actually be?

My guess, she wouldn't even be mentioned.

So, the question is, why SHOULD she be such a strong candidate (from either side) to begin with.

W/O the name/association Clinton, would she have the big name financial backers?

Would she have won the Senate in NY?

Would anybody really even be paying any attention to her?

Take away the name Clinton and truely, how far would she be?

Just because she is very intelligent and accomplished doesn't automatically put her over the hump from "well respected", to "great".

[BlueEyedSon]

1. ummm.... how about "she would never ever have been a senator"?

[Never Forget]

3. I have my reservations...

Hillary couldn't get the right time of day if her last name wasn't Clinton. I like her personally, but I'm just not sure about her for President. I don't want her to cost us politically.

[madmunchie]

11. Welcome to DU!

[Warpy]

7. Not sure about that

She's brilliant and started in politics in her own right during the Nixon era. Then she shelved her ambitions in favor of her husband's.

The problem with her now is not only the baggage of being another legacy candidate (and I'm heartily sick of them), it's the baggage of her rather conservative politics. It's the politics that have kept the Democrats out of power and the American people from prospering, the politics of coorporatism over labor rights, the politics of global trade over local protection.

That's why she's unelectable. The working class base won't vote for her because she's just another business as usual DLC candidate. The right won't vote for her because she's a Democrat. Lots of men and some women won't vote for her because she's a woman. Those are a lot of people right off the top who won't even listen to anything she has to say on the campaign trail, and that is why she should confine her ambition to being the best senator NY has to offer.

[MADem]

15. Yep, she worked the NIXON IMPEACHMENT

People forget that.

Who knows what she would have done, politically, had she not ended up with Bill?

[babylonsister]

2. Conversely, because her name is Clinton, I don't see her

getting too far with a run for prez. There are still lots of hate-filled people out there who summon the Clinton name disparagingly at the drop of a hat.

[OKNancy]

4. Who knows what would have happened in her life?

( I don't support her ) She was a BWOC, an intellect, and very ambitious. If she had not moved to Arkansas and stayed in Washington DC or moved back to Illinois, who knows what she would have done on her own. I don't think this is a very good argument against her. There are tons of politicians who get a boost from their family name or an incident in their life ( where would John McCain be without his captivity in Vietnam, for example)

[madmunchie]

8. Very True about many politicians getting boosts from

their family name OR an incident in their life, but there are people (like Bill Clinton), who have made it on teir own merit.

The thing with Hillary is that she gets so much attention just because she is Hillary CLINTON. Strip that from her and no way would we all be talking about her. Brilliant or not, how fair is it to us to be handed a candidate, just because of this name thereby power and money connection, and how CLEAN could this all possibly be? Is this a Democracy, or are we fully into royal families with "the throne" going from one family member to another.

Watching Bill being so cozy with the Bush's and then hearing Hillary say that this might be one of the worst Administration's in history strikrs me as soo Very phony....Bill could be paling around with Jimmy Carter, now that would make sense AND be true to our values. It is insulting and disloyal to us for Bill Clinton to be so close w/the Bushs.

[Sparkly]

5. I actually think she'd have succeeded on her own w/o Pres Clinton

I'm just basing this on the little I know of her biography, but it seems she had enormous potential for politics as a young woman. Some of her woman friends were very dismayed that she got married and moved to Arkansas to support her husband's career, because they felt she had a future as a ground-breaking female politician if she'd remained independent, pursuing her own career.

(Even if she'd married, but done it later, or married someone different, who knows...?)

I have no idea how or whether it would have changed her politics, but I whatever we may think of those, she's surely smart, ambitious, and successful -- and I think she'd have been those things without the name "Clinton."

A perfect example of your analogy is Chimpy! Without the Bush name, he'd be NOwhere, because he has ZERO of the attributes required for success...

[alfredo]

23. She would have been a top lawyer, the chimp would be

selling used cars.

[left is right]

6. about a hundred times stronger

than W would have been if he wasn't a Bush. Which really isn't saying all that much.

[Minnesota Libra]

9. I think if her name wasn't Clinton she'd be a shoe in for 08 but..........

.....because of a stained blue dress she won't even have a chance.

What I wouldn't give for the days when our biggest concerns were how many stained blue dresses came out of the Oval Office.:headbang:

[AusGail]

12. I agree

Better to have a serial bonker for president than a serial killer

[LittleClarkie]

36. The stained blue dress doesn't even figure into how

people view her husband any more.

Through the fog of time, all many people remember is that we had relative peace and relative prosperity during his reign. I know a social worker who'd lost her job who was all hung up on Bush keeping us more safe than Kerry who would have voted for Bill again in a minute, and Hillary anytime. Not terribly bright, she didn't seem to understand why she'd lost her job with the county. She also had many health problems and no insurance. God knows why she was hungup on Bush. She should have been smarter than that.

But I personally think her name is why Hillary thinks she can skip over wooing the left, and run straight at the center. She thinks she has the primaries in the bag. I'm not sure she's wrong. The farther left is mad at her, but more moderate Dems seem to be okay with her. The question is, who will be voting in force during the primaries.

One last thing re: her name, to me anyway. A pandermonkey under a different name would still be a pandermonkey.

[paulk]

10. if I had a million dollars, I'd be a millionaire....

:shrug:

[Neil Lisst]

13. She would never be considered presidential material without it.

In fact, she'd have never been elected to office without the Clinton connection. She's a terrible public speaker and has all the personal warmth of a cold, brass doorknob. While I'll support her if she wins the nomination, it will be a McGovern/Dukakis beatdown for the party if she's the nominee.

Without the Clinton connection, she'd have been a very successful attorney, probably in and out of government and private practice, but not a politician.

[paulk]

32. have you met her personally?

Just curious where your info on her "personal warmth" comes from....

[AtomicKitten]

14. Well, her name IS Clinton.

Snaps for the more obvious than usual veiled attempt to say her value is wrapped up in her name.

Plus I heard she eats live babies.

[DanCa]

16. It's the dynasty thing that gets too me too.

I would love to see this country run by someone who isn't a Bush or a Clinton for the next four years personally. I have nothing against Senator Clinton mind you, I would vote for her over say Bill Frist, I would just like for us to run someone who isn't a legacy, or a senator.

[NNadir]

17. Are you saying that if she had never married, she could not have been

Senator?

I have understood that when she was in college, before she was married, before she met Bill, she was highly regarded by her peers and was expected to go into politics.

It seems to me that there are many paths through which she might well have become a Senator, even if she had never heard of Bill Clinton.

I am not a supporter of Ms. Clinton for President, but I think she has, like many women, her own identity independent of her husband.

[Clarkie1]

18. She certainly wouldn't be where she is now.

And yes, I do have a problem with that in relation to her political aspirations.

[kevsand]

19. She'd still be right where she is now, except that...

...someone else would have been president in the nineties!

It's an old joke, but for those who haven't heard it: While Bill was president, he and Hillary went back to Arkansas for a visit and drove past a gas station. Bill recognized the attendent as someone who had dated Hillary before him.

"Gee, honey," Bill says, "just think, if you'd married him, you'd still be here in Arkansas."

"No, dear," Hillary answers, "if I'd married him, he'd be in the White House and you'd be pumping gas..."

[laundry_queen]

20. ROTFL! n/t

[Yupster]

22. Maybe she'd be a senator from Illinois?

I doubt she would be senator from New York.

[kevsand]

24. That would have been a very real possibility. /nt

[gulliver]

21. If name recognition meant nothing, Hillary would be ...

... a successful lawyer and probably would have risen to something like the Senate on her own. She might even be one of a pool of people who constantly remind us they want to be thought of as presidential material. If she hadn't been Bill's wife, her claim to a hopeless bid for the presidency would be legitimate.

[madmunchie]

30. You totally nailed it for me.

I don't mean to minimize Hillary by not recognizing her talents and gifts. The WHOLE picture is what is troubling. I personally believe that whe would have been prominent in politics on her own. With the name CLINTON though, well it is a mixed bag and too orchestrated for 08', from both the left & the right.

[formernaderite]

34. I'd agree with that...and I can't stand her

the problem is we'll never know. At this point she's gotten to where she is by riding her husbands coattails...which I have to say, irks my wife more than me. I didn't like her New York Coronation of a senate primary. Nita lowey was slated to run and from old sources, neatly placed aside. Shit like that bothers me, beyond the fact that I hate legacy politicians. I won't be voting for her for national office....EVER. She will lose the democrats another go at the presidency for at least 8 years. It's a depressing scenario.

[election_2004]

35. Lowey would have been MUCH better

Or Nydia Velazquez.

[enough already]

25. It's a complete myth that she is "strong"

Recent polls show that she is unelectable nationally. Other than the media, I just don't see the support for her. If her name wasn't Clinton, nobody would be paying a bit of attention to her. And if we nominate her, it will be an electoral disaster of Mondale proporitions (mathematically, not personally. I have complete respect for Mondale).

[Joanne98]

26. Stronger than Pee Wee Herman, weaker than Sponge Bob.

[Orangepeel]

27. Could Bill Clinton have been president without her?

He probably wouldn't even have been governor of Arkansas. The name "Clinton" probably wouldn't mean anything politically, if he hadn't had her help and support.

They complement each other well. They are both brilliant. He has charisma, she is focused. The fact that the path in life that she chose was to help him achieve political success first doesn't mean that she couldn't have had the same success in another way.

[Katherine Brengle]

40. You said what I said, lol.

[DFW]

28. Just one man's impression

But I think she would have been in the Senate long before now, and much more
prominently than she is now. I think she has been treading on eggshells BECAUSE
her name is Clinton, and is waiting for a big re.election to give her more space
to speak out without the baggage of being called a legacy electee. One can always
argue that she won her seat in 2000 on Bill's and Al's coattails, If she gets back
in with over 60% of the electorate, then she can start to maneuver more freely,
and without the baggage she has to work under since 2000 as Mrs. Bill. In other words,
I think the name Clinton has so far been a hindrance to her, not a boon.

Give it time, and I say this as one who would love to see Al Gore as our nominee. I just
don't discount her smarts or her personality (I always found her to be very personable
and warm, btw).

[Paladin]

29. A Lot Stronger Candidate Than George W. Bush.....

...the ultimate and most regrettable example of a "my last name got me this job" politico.

If his last name weren't Bush, Dubya might have ended up as a VP at a small Midland oil and gas company---tops.

Even you habitual Hillary Bashers have to acknowledge that she has a stronger resume than GWB ever dreamed of.....

[eauclaireliberal]

31. My guess is that if she never met Bubba

She would probably be the republican representative for Illinois' 9th congressional district since the late 1970's.

[election_2004]

33. Assuming she'd never been First Lady....

She would never have won her U.S. Senate seat in New York, given that her homestate is Illinois, and her previous state of residence was Arkansas.

[AtomicKitten]

37. and if she had testicles, she'd be a he

[IdaBriggs]

38. Why not put up a poll for "Hillary Rodham"?

Its a very good point; we have a very positive view of "Clinton" but how would she go over as "Hillary Rodham?" :)

[Katherine Brengle]

39. If Bill Clinton wasn't married to Hillary, how strong a president would...

he have been?

I don't like Senator Clinton on a lot of issues, but riding her husband's coat-tails it not one of her faults, imo.

I grant that she probably gets more attention bc of her famous past--but it also occurs to me that she might have been active in politics, in the Senate perhaps, earlier if she hadn't been working on her husband's career.

Of course, that's the job of women in this country--to sacrifice and support and back-up and give up our own goals for the betterment of our husband's careers--it happens every day.

I say more power to her if she's getting ahead because of her name--she's certainly paid enough for it over the years.

[Zimmy44]

41. If her name weren't Clinton....

...I'm pretty sure it would be Lieberman.