So what are the internment camps really going to be used for?

[rhett o rick]

Would they make all illegal aliens felons and round them up in the internment camps for processing? Will the processing include tattooing numbers on their arms?

I think that some day soon the peaceful protesters will turn violent. Most likely start with a Karl Rove plant or six. Then the police will put protesters in the camps for processing.

[Jim Sagle]

1. Democrats.

[Capn Sunshine]

32. lol

my first thought as well.

I have a suspicion it's part of a boneheaded notion to "quarantine" Bird Flu victims in an effort to prevent its spread should it appear here.

[Maat]

2. I was at a meeting this Saturday ..

and someone suggested that we just protest outside the one being built near us, with signs saying, "What is this really for?" It sure made me think - just the suggestion. I think that such a protest would be fun and effective.

[rhett o rick]

3. Sounds good, but wouldn't you think our Demo Congress people

would be able to tell us??

[Maat]

7. Grrrr ... it makes me mad that this is not being widely discussed (n/t).

[Sperk]

4. where ARE they being built?

n/t

[Maat]

6. Looks like one is being built in the Temecula/Murrieta Valley (n/t).

[noonwitch]

17. If that's what they are building, shining a light on it is a good idea

Even if it is being built for illegal immigrants, the public needs to know what it is, who is going to be there, and what the risk is to the community around it, whenever a new prison gets built.

[Maat]

25. I agree (n/t).

[Marie26]

5. Illegal aliens. nt

[catnhatnh]

9. Right-illegal aliens threaten our downfall???

The only 2 reasonable explanations are for martial law violations (possible but not as likely as number 2) or political dissenters...You don't build a third of a billion dollars worth of prisons to hold a sudden influx of immigrants,illegal or otherwise-the only possible impetus for such a swell in illegals would be the total collapse of the Mexican government or economy and neither seems likely....HOW MANY THOUSAND will they hold????A large "surge" in immigrants would send millions across...You are talking hard point units,not something for a few extra Juan y Juanitas flowing through...I expect to see the inside sooner than some politically uninvolved hispanic...

[Marie26]

18. I've been saying illegal aliens

for months, since this first broke, & got flamed for it. Now, there's a new plan to round up 11 million illegal aliens, which completely explains these camps, yet people still want to think they're for liberals? Why do you want to get locked up so bad? $230 million is chump change, especially for a big Bush crony like KBR. Yet they're going to imprison every political dissenter in the US in this center? Why not look at the facts - this contract is through the Immigrations & Customs Enforcement Agency, the agency that is in charge of deporting illegal aliens. The center would be built by the Fort Worth Army Corp of Engineers - in Texas, a major border crossing point. The "surge" may not be one of immigrants coming in, but of immigrants being kicked out if the Sensenbrenner bill passes. You understand that this bill makes 11 million immigrants into felons? Where are they going to put all these people until deportation? They'd need a new ICE detention center near the border to hold & process immigrants until deportation. The ICE has dentention facilities already, but nowhere near what would be needed if this immigration "reform" bill passes. I think they knew this bill was coming down the pike, so made sure to already have the contract awarded. It's a "contingency contract" until the bill becomes law.

[mmonk]

40. Why would you need to put them in camps?

Why not deport if the country doesn't want them? This, as in many things they do, is something not good.

[Marie26]

44. That's not how the deportation process works

I know someone who's a Border Patrol Agent. If an illegal immigrant is picked up crossing the border, they are brought to a detention camp for processing. This can take a few days. If they are Mexican, they are just put in a bus & shipped back to the border. But if they are from another country, they have to wait for the next flight out to their home country. So, let's say someone from Chile sneaks across the border. Mexico won't take them back; they have to go back to Chile. Therefore, they have to be held until the next flight out is scheduled &/or there are enough Chilean immigrants to make the flight. A Chilean immigrant will be held in an ICE detention facility until the next flight back - this can take days or weeks.

And that's just a typical day, w/maybe a thousand deportations. Now, imagine that we are suddenly rounding up 11 million immigrants from all over the world. Some of these immigrants are Mexican, but some are Irish, Nigerian, Indian, Australian. Where are we going to put these people? How are we going to process these people? The normal ICE facilities, already full, would be completely overwhelmed. They'd need more detention centers to process the millions of immigrants we're suddenly deporting.

[Maat]

10. I'm doubting that its just for illegal aliens.

Why? I've lived in the area for 47 years (all of my life); the situation just hasn't really changed that much (proportionally). And they have never needed a facility of this size before. And it doesn't jive with how the system works. Most undocs come to the attention of the system when they are arrested on either a domestic-related charge or a drug-related charge. Then they are sent to a jail/prison facility to do their time, and then they are deported. We have plenty of space locally for that. And in view of the bill that will ultimately get passed, we are not going to have a need to house that many purely scheduled for deportation. We have NO need for a facility of that size. So, I ask again, "What are these facilities for, and why are taxpayers paying such a price for them?"

[Marie26]

20. How do you know what the size is?

We don't, we just know how much the contract is for; and since it's for a Bush crony, up to 80% could just be graft. You're right, the immigration situation itself hasn't changed that much. But the Sensenbrenner bill would change the immigration situation significantly. Right now, you're right that illegal immigrants are only noticed if they're arrested on some other charge. They will usually be deported after a jail sentence. So, that's a small percentage of immigrants who will be deported on a daily basis. The Sensenbrenner bill criminalizes all undocumented immigrants & makes them into instant felons. It also denies political asylum for many immigrants who are awaiting visas on those grounds. That's a whole lot of people who will suddenly become felons & eligible for deportation. The bill also deputizes local police officers to order deportations, as well. All this creates a situation in which lots more immigrants will suddenly enter the deportation system. Not all immigrants are from Mexico. Where will we hold these 8 million immigrants who will be deported to Africa, Europe, Korea until we can fly them out?

I think the Sensenbrenner bill is completely crazy, but you have to admit, if it passes, it's going to create a need for a whole lot more immigrant detention facilities. 11 million immigrants is a lot of people, & deporting them would require a dentention center of great size. Honestly, $230 million seems a little low to me for what would be required under this bill. It's a logistical nightmare.

[Maat]

23. That WOULD be a logistical nightmare.

I, as a retired social worker, with my sister working as one currently, am really worried about breaking up families.

I'm just wondering ... things don't seem to be adding up really well.

We know one thing for sure - Cheney & his cronies will wind up making millions, huh? Disgusting.

And the thought of anyone being incarcerated like that - well, this country lowers itself more and more every day. And it's being done in my name!

[Marie26]

35. It's just awful

It makes me a little sick to imagine families torn apart, children being taken from their parents, elderly people being sent to detention camps. All, apparantly, w/the full approval of the American people. I'm not very rational on this issue because it upsets me so much & because I think it reflects the increasing xenophobia & facism in this country. I've worked with immigrants & know how important family is to most of them. And because many immigrant families have mixed-status, yes, many would be broken up by this law. But Cheney & the other cronies stand to make millions off this. I just hope that this bill does not pass.

[Maat]

37. I know.

One time the police I worked with (I was a social worker) busted a methamphetamine lab. The 'management' of the lab had gone down into the countryside in Mexico and recruited their staff, knowing that they left easily accessible family behind. Well, you guessed it, Mom and Dad up here were arrested, and sent to prison, to do their time and then be deported. Mom and Dad had two kids who were U.S. citizens. Mom's siblings went to jail at the same time. The only relative I could find was Maternal Grandma. She was an undoc. FORTUNATELY, at that time, there was a program which basically allowed Grandma to get a greencard due to the emergency circumstances. I just rememeber the difficulties in that case, and the stress to the kids, and then I think about what this new bill would mean. I think of the families being split up. We must defeat that bill!

Still irks me that those facilities are even being built on my nickel.

[Kailassa]

11. More likely illegal thinkers. n/t

[lumberjack_jeff]

19. I agree

I don't have any doubt that this administration is capable of just about anything, but given the price tag, building camps to house illegals is plausible, while the alternatives are not.

Secrecy is their default setting, sometimes it works for them (heard the words "internment camps") on the MSM lately? Sometimes it doesn't, because it encourages people to speculate.

[C_U_L8R]

8. A Final Solution

for everyone not like THEM

[Minnesota Libra]

12. The camps will be for all of us liberals who don't spew neocon messages nt

[Neil Lisst]

13. They're going to use at least one for domestic "terrorists"

ALF, ELF, anyone in any kind of group that actively attempts to intervene in a government activity. Like things that might be done by groups like ACT UP, QUEER NATION, PETA, PINK LADIES and some Vegan activists group.

There won't be bail. They'll be sent to the detention area where there will be specially created courts to handle them expediously.

Some of the captured will be turned around and sent back out the infiltrate and even help criminalize other groups.

-----------------------------------

write it down and remember I told you on April 3, 2006

[Doctor_J]

29. Oh, you mean the people who Anthraxed Daschle & Leahy?

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

I crack myself up.

[Capn Sunshine]

33. no, maybe the ones who blew up OKC

don't hear much about pursuing THOSE guys, and they are a demonstrable threat.

[Neil Lisst]

36. I'm sure someone in the Bush admin knows who did that

[Virginia Dare]

14. Actually, they aren't internment camps..

they're "reeducation camps"..the people in them will be sent out to pick lettuce and other jobs that "real Americans" won't do.

[Marie26]

22. That's who will be there.

The illegal immigrants that pick lettuce & do other menial jobs to feed their families. I just wanted to add one other thing to this thread. If you are truly paranoid & truly believe that Bush is out to create "re-education camps" for dissidents, you should be 100% against the Sensenbrenner bill. In order to deport 11 million immigrants, as this bill requires, they're going to have to build a heck of a lot of detention facilities. The centers would be built w/full public support from the anti-immigrant crowd. And once the majority of immigrants here are deported, there will be a lot of big, empty detention camps around, just waiting for a new use. If you truly believe Bush wants to do this, we should be against a Republican bill that creates lots of new detention facilities, right? Yet sometimes people worry about the imprisonment of liberals & support the imprisonment of immigrants, w/o seeing the possible connection between the two.

[Maat]

24. I think that we are on the same side ..

in the sense I do not approve of these facilities being built - period. And my position on undocumented immigrants is well-documented; I grew up with them. They were my friends and caretakers. They were my co-workers. We in the United States need to be about preserving those constitutional rights, providing equal protection of the law to all, and treating all of our residents - citizens or not - with dignity and respect.

And, like I said before, these facilities could be used for many purposes, AND I truly resent Cheney and his cohorts making more obscene profits!

I was a social worker during the Clinton years; things were handled MUCH better, and we effectively achieved many goals. The Evil Ones in power now are heartless AND incompetent.

[Doctor_J]

31. Be glad we're in a temperate climate

if we had the Canadian latitude, the camps would be constructed in the Yukon - to make them even more authentic wrt the GUlags.

[Joe Fields]

15. In a story on Alternet, a KBR official claimed that the camps....

will also be used for "the rapid development of other programs."

Sound ominous?

link: http://www.alternet.org/story/32647

[mmonk]

41. yeah, I've read that quote also.

Wonder what retaliatory measures are in store for American ex-pats around the world? I'm sure the rest of the world will know what is going on with them before we will.

[Marie26]

48. Such as the Sensenbrenner deportation program? nt

[Jeffersons Ghost]

16. the camps might be for people who post at DU

If that is the case, I'm going to start posting especially negative threads about the Rethuglicans, so I can go to camp early and get one of the really nice cells.

[KansDem]

21. You mean the ones closest to the game room and cafeteria???

:grr:

[Maat]

27. I'm trying to reserve one of these cells near Murrieta ..

I don't want to be too far from home! And I want the one near the game room and cafeteria!

[Capn Sunshine]

34. If they name it "Camp Lounge"

They'll be flooded

[Quakerfriend]

26. Just started reading "Gulag" By A. Applebaum

It always astounds me that so many people went along with the plan. It CAN happen here.
Very :scared: !

[Doctor_J]

30. And yet many, or even most, would say today that

we're not yet living in fascism.

I am with you - it already has happened here.

[Doctor_J]

28. You mean "what" or "who"?

It will probably end up being storage for "enemies of the state" - think of them as large, permanent First Amendment Zones.

[The Flaming Red Head]

38. For profit prisons

so we can sell crap back to China and India’s newly burgeoning economies

[kestrel91316]

39. The camps are where the Dominionists will put the religious heretics

while they wait to be stoned to death.

[mmonk]

42. I'm carrying a helmet just in case.

[APPLE314]

43. BINGO -- N/T

[NoPasaran]

45. They're being prebuilt

For the War on Christians, sillies!

You guys act like you've never heard of Plan X!

[banana republican]

46. Are the camps big enough to hold all of the convicted republicans???

maybe we will need to build some more....

[Rocknrule]

47. Gays