Kerry to Make Iraq News

[Unmarked Poster]

http://atrios.blogspot.com/2006_04_02_atrios_archive.html#114418156718521896

[mdmc]

1. welcome to DU!

[Ivote]

2. Welcome Aboard

:hi:

[Sensitivity]

3. Not a good time to make news, with all the crap going on in MSM

[blm]

15. Don't worry - corporate media ignores every important statement or plan

made by Kerry, Clark, Dean, fillintheblank Dem.

[Vektor]

4. Thanks, and welcome!

:hi:

[rox63]

5. Thanks for the welcome news

And welcome to DU. :hi:

Kerry's got a learning curve, unlike a lot of his colleagues. ('specially the rethugs) Perhaps he has reached the end of his rope on the Iraq war.

[blm]

11. I think it's the window that was still open last December has closed

permanently and now withdrawal MUST happen over the next year.

[wicket]

6. Welcome to DU!!!!

:hi: :toast:

[1956]

7. Not much info there

Anyone know what the "news" would be? I hope it's something good!

[blm]

14. He was quoted in a local Mass paper as saying Iraq IS in a civil war

and that Bush is in denial about it, which hurts any plan for withdrawal.

He said last year that the window of opportunity in Iraq for military success closed long ago and that there was only political success that could come IF Bush started visible withdrawals immediately after the election. That window looks to have closed now, too, thanks to Bush's decisions.

[enough already]

28. How is that "news"?

Murtha has been saying that for weeks.

[blm]

30. Which part? Kerry's withdrawal plan last October was preMurtha.

They both said last fall that military success was no longer possible and that only political success was possible at that point, as I recall - pretty sure it was part of Kerry's speech last October.

I think Murtha came out against the war in midNovember and later submitted a withdrawal plan with a hope to have it implemented within 6months, while Kerry's plan was for end of 2006.

I can't imagine that they are very far apart on this now, considering what has gone down the past few months since the December elections in Iraq.

So, what part are you referring to, specifically?

[LittleClarkie]

32. And his plan last October was pre-civil war as well

Situations change, windows close, and minds change.

[blm]

54. How sad that Bush allowed that last window of opportunity to close.

.

[Jacobin]

8. He should lay off that issue

He's clouded it enough already.

Let someone else win the WH and then figure out how to get out of this goddamned quagmire, one careful step at a time. Each step will be dependent on events as they unfold, getting help from allies. Its going to be a horrid, bloody, ghastly mess...as it is now, but its going to take someone in the WH in control to do what needs to be done and then try to clean up the consequences for years to come.

Making some idiotic statements right now is fucking useless. Let Bush spin in his own juices on this quagmire, because statements are not going to do a damned thing

[WildEyedLiberal]

9. I have a feeling if this was anyone else...

... it wouldn't be an "idiotic statement."

Psst, check the mirror, your vendetta is showing.

[Jacobin]

12. I'm glad you're not upset about 2004

It's very good to get over losing.

I'm not as evolved as you are and alas, am wanting a new face to deal with the quagmire.

Making statements is for shit. Its going to take the person who is in a position to make decisions to get us out of this quagmire, because it is a world class, once in a 1000 year clusterfuck of epic proportions. We don't need someone yammering who voted to authorize the damned thing to begin with

[Noisy Democrat]

18. It's ironic

Actually, I am still upset about 2004, so in a way I can relate to what you're saying, except that for me it goes the other way -- I'm upset because I was genuinely inspired by John Kerry; he gave me my patriotism back. I still believe in what he stood for in the campaign, and the idea of kicking him aside for a "fresh face" doesn't appeal to me -- it would be like kicking aside the ideals themselves.

In any case, given how bad things are, I think *any* prominent Dem speaking out against the nightmare has to be a good thing.

[blm]

22. I get the sense it's more than that - he said last week Iraq's a civil war

zone now and that the US has to deal with that and hasten withdrawal.

My guess is that he will formalize his remarks on that.

[LittleClarkie]

23. Do you suspect alittle Winter Soldier action is on the way?

I do.

[blm]

26. I don't know - I do know that he wouldn't hang on in Iraq a minute longer

than necessary - he's just not wired like that.

[WildEyedLiberal]

19. Well, you clearly don't even understand...

... what the hell the IWR actually said, so it's useless talking to someone who ignores facts to support an agenda.

PS, your vendetta is still showing. Might want to take care of that.

[Jacobin]

37. Oh, I've read ALL of that

You probably remember me on DU prior to the IWR when we all faxed, emailed, phoned and begged senators and particularly Kerry (the viet nam vet, doncha know) to make SURE they knew what we ALL knew, and that was that Bush was DETERMINED to go to war and wanted the resolution for a fig leaf.

We ALL knew that.

We got canned claptrap emails back from him in response, about how DANGEROUS Saddam was, etc etc, blah do blah de blah.

We faxed and emailed him op eds from the NYT from Bush I folks warning that this would be a disaster and begging congress not give insane BushII a loaded gun. DON"T DO IT, the wise men said. DONT DO IT, the base said. DON"T DO IT 10 million americans marching said.

He fucking did it anyway.

And you and all the other kerry worshippers can spin this excrement that he spins until it is silk, and ya know what, it will still stink to fucking high heaven, because we KNOW what he did, and that was to sacrifice his principles for votes for a presidential run, miscalculating that IraqNam would go well.

Another sign he should not be given another 100 million to run for president

[WildEyedLiberal]

46. You don't know anything, including, apparently, the text of IWR

If you had actually read it, you'd know you were talking out of your ass. Bush could be impeached for breaking the IWR's provisions. But you don't want Bush impeached for breaking the IWR; no, you'd rather give Bush a pass and blame Democrats. The only thing that stinks to high heaven are disgruntled far leftist agitators in Democrat clothes.

[Noisy Democrat]

10. Unfortunately

It's our troops that are drowning in this quagmire, not Bush. I hope Kerry has something good to say. We desperately need leadership.

[Jacobin]

13. "Leadership"?

Who's he going to lead? Bush*?

Does anyone Seriously believe that the Bush cabal is going to do anything other than the OPPOSITE of what Kerry says, regardless of whether its a good idea or not?

[Noisy Democrat]

17. The American public

is looking for some kind of vision on Iraq. So yes, the Democrats do need to provide leadership for the upset public to rally around, even if Bush fights it tooth and nail. I have no idea what John Kerry is up to, but if he plans to speak out, I'm hopeful.

[TayTay]

25. Nice logic. Imagine if other figures in history had heeded it.

Hey, Martin Luthor King, Jr. Stop marching. It's not going to do you any good, the President and the people are against you. Hang up your shoes, it's hopeless.

This is a dying Presidency with approval ratings in the low 30's. I am for any Democrat who helps to reinforce the notion that this President and the Republican Congress that he leads is incompetent and flat out wrong in their policies in Iraq. The greater and louder the voices, the greater the chance that this will be talked about in America and that pressure for change will build.

We need this. We need the Jack Murtha's of the world to talk and say that based on my years of military experience and experience working with the Pentagon, this damn war is not going to work. We need to make huge changes and an exit plan. If Kerry wants to do the same or something close, then Welcome to the Party Senator! All hands on deck.

I am sorry that all is hopeless and helpless around you. Not everyone feels that way. There are still people who believe that change is possible and protest necessary. It is, after all, the American way.

[blm]

27. Did you see that local article where Kerry said Iraq is in a civil war?

Don't remember the name of the paper, but remember thinking that Kerry must see that every window of opportunity in Iraq is now closed.

Damn Bush for not heeding the advice of those who submitted doable withdrawal plans last year. All that effort for NOTHING.

[TayTay]

29. Salem Evening News (My hometown paper when I was a kid!)

It was a little line in a separate box from the main story. I hunt through statements for stuff about Iraq, cuz it's the most significant issue in America today.

Yup, We have to get 'our kids' out of Iraq, it's in a civil war and we have to come up with an exit plan. All there in black and white.

[blm]

31. So. it looks like a little newspaper scooped the corporate MSM.

.

[Jacobin]

39. Amazing comparison

MLK equals John Kerry????????????????????????????

Oh my fucking god.

I shall leave this kerry worshipping thread and leave you to your sacrifices and rituals

[WildEyedLiberal]

47. Good. All you contribute is needless negativity

People like you never help anyone win anything - in every battle, every crisis, people like you are the ones whining in the corner doing nothing bitching at the people who ARE.

[LittleClarkie]

33. Let them do the opposite. All I want now is for the peoples

to hear the truth, so that they can compare it to the lie, and know the difference, and continue to drive Bush's numbers even lower, so that more Republicans will fly away from him, and so that more people will vote against these bastards come November.

Is that to much to ask?

[LittleClarkie]

16. You go to battle with the warrior you have

not the one you may need or want.

But I dunno, I thought he was pretty clear on the issue, right down to offering a timetable to get out. I suspect he's about to go Winter Soldier on us, or at least I'm hoping.

He's been grumbling about "civil war" and "who are we kidding" lately.

[WildEyedLiberal]

20. Kerry IS the warrior we need

Don't let people with an agenda fool you.

[LittleClarkie]

21. Oh, I know

You know I know.

But I just love it when folks say "Someone has to speak up" but then get picky about who that someone is if they don't like that person.

[WildEyedLiberal]

24. I know - just clarifying in case someone didn't pick up your snark,

It is "interesting" when people claim to want a strong voice as long as it's not Kerry.

You know, when people do that, I start to think they don't actually care about the issue, or else they'd be happy someone was talking about it. Instead, they'd rather play stupid political games with people's lives. Sad, isn't it?

[Jacobin]

38. Kerry played a stupid game

by trying to have the IWR both ways and it bit him in the ass, and killed and maimed americans.

[TayTay]

40. He did not. He tried to stop this Admin from rushing to war

You post is unsupported RW talking points. It's sad when Dems eat their own.

[LittleClarkie]

41. I guarantee you it was no game to him

He did the best he could, fucked up, admitted it, and offered a plan to get out. Now he's talking more and more like whatever window we had to get it right in Iraq has closed. It's been an evolution of opinion. Smart people do that. They assess, they form opiniions, they reassess, they change their opinions.

It appears he's reassessed, and is now saying that we should get out as fast as we can, as we now have a civil war over there. At least that's what he said last week.

If there was any game playing, it was by Bush, not Kerry.

Bush is responsible. The Bush administration is responsible. They lied. They went into Iraq with no plan. They cooked intelligence. It was them. Why dillute the consequences of what they did by saying that it was Kerry who killed and maimed Americans. This was never his war.

[WildEyedLiberal]

43. I only see one person here playing a stupid game

No one with half a brain cell would accuse anyone other than Bush of "killing and maiming Americans." Not that brains are a prereq for posting at DU, by any means...

[sandnsea]

44. Do you want more dead people?

Yes or no? That's the issue, that's the only issue. Stopping the killing. Anybody who isn't on board with that is muddying up the issue now.

[blm]

55. You don't know Kerry then - he never PLAYS when it comes to military

decisions. He never has and never will.

[blue cat]

I saw him on CSPAN today

His voice seems to pull me in more than any other dem. He is so f'in presidential sounding!

[ProSense]

35. Welcome! I completely agree.

I look forward to Kerry's statement.

[DanCa]

42. Why oh why didn't "more " people vote for Senator Kerry?

It would be nice to have a President that could actually speak in complete sentances.

[blue cat]

34. I saw him on CSPAN today

His voice seems to pull me in more than any other dem. He is so f'in presidential sounding!

[Jeffersons Ghost]

36. oh, you should have heard Dean just now on CNN

Kerry won't run again but I like him and we need his voice in the Senate.

BOOM: We are going to give America REAL security!

BOOM: We are going to end the Republican Culture of Corruption!

BOOM: We are going to bring EVERY American good health care!

CHING: We are going to withdraw from Iraq, gradually to keep our troops out of harm's way!

CHING: We are going to balance the budget, just like Clinton did, without raising taxes!

[ChiciB1]

45. Welcome To DU... Nice To Have Another On Board... BUT

don't get too excited! Bet you can't count the amount of corruption that has gone on since these creeps have taken over. It's too monumental and yet... Democratic leaders seem to be a day late and a dollar short!

It's going to take DECADES to repair the damage, even IF we started NOW! We can't even get hearings on NSA wire taps, so Kerry says something about Iraq? Gee, well Gee!

[WildEyedLiberal]

48. God, can we not multitask?

Iraq is no longer an issue because suddenly, all single-minded lefty bloggers are capable of focusing on are wiretaps? Good God, this is why Repukes beat us hands down. They can walk and chew gum at the same time.

[ChiciB1]

50. Actually, It Wasn't "THE WAR" I Was Taking Issue With

War was just one of many subjects I could have used. I was just trying to make the point that we have ZILCH accomplished by OUR leaders so far. My point being that it's "WE THE PEOPLE" who are going to have to do the heavy lifting!

We The People are going to have to Take Back America! We The People are getting precious LITTLE help from Democratic leaders, save a few brave souls who go out to get bashed by "the corrupt ones!"

Basically, I'm talking REVOLUTION, like the revolt we have witnessed by immigrants here in America carrying the MEXICAN Flag and getting lots of attention. Attention from Repukes who seem to have their panties in a wad because these "immigrants" have the cojones to make their voices heard. They just got out there and DID it and by God I can respect them for doing what they BELIEVE in!

And just so I'm clear on this, I don't have any problem with the immigrants doing what they believe in. I only wish they would use the American Flag simply because I think it would lend more legitimacy to their cause. Too many will get their hackles up because they fly MEXICAN in America.

And not to worry, I sign EVERY petition coming down the pike, I write to Congress all the time and I've marched in all the marches I can get to. I'm trying to keep as many issues in front of all I know and meet, I'm just saying... we ain't getting much help and I think we are going to have to look at the very real possibility that WE are our OWN LEADERS!

I hope that clears the air!

[kerrygoddess]

49. Get ready!

John Kerry: A Record of Leadership on Iraq
April 4th, 2006 @ 6:27 pm

Rumor has it John Kerry will making some news on Iraq shortly. In the meantime while we’re waiting, let’s take a look back on Kerry’s record of leadership on Iraq…

Kerry said early on if we had to go to war, Administration must work hard to get support of American people

http://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/?p=2526

[ChiciB1]

51. I Worked My Heart Out For Kerry After Having Waited For Many

many years to see him run! I was elated to see him in person and John Edwards too! And I also think the War In Iraq is a MAJOR MAJOR MAJOR issue today. I want it to stop and will follow or lead anyone who feels the same!

I can only wait as I have for so long to see if it does ANY good at all! This war is more than criminal!

[LittleClarkie]

52. Is May 15th soon enough for you?`

It sounds like Kerry is on the Murtha bandwagon now.

[karynnj]

53. Kerry's plan has a political piece as well - so it's more complex

and gives a last ditch effort for a united government and peace. But if the Iraqis can't work in that direction, then it's as fast as Murtha (if not faster.)