Dean sounds lukewarm on censure....

[Sammy Pepys]

...on Hardball just now.

Kind of surprises me.

[Jacobin]

1. RWers are trying to scare the electorate

that if dems are in power they will impeach or censure their BoyPresidentLordGawdBush.

Tiptoing is appropriate

Investigations will be appropriate.

What they find may require further action

[Sammy Pepys]

2. But isn't censure what we want around here?

I was lukewartm to it at first as well...but it's kind of growing on me.

[flpoljunkie]

5. What we want is accountability. That's what the censure resolution and

a Senate Judiciary Committee investigation of Bush's unauthorized wiretapping would give us.

Dean needs to do his homework if he's going to go on shows like Tweety's.

As for impeachment, the answer to why not to impeach Bush is two simple words--Dick Cheney!

[flpoljunkie]

3. Dean said Dems weren't interested in "revenge." How about the rule of law?

And what's wrong with Dean saying that the Senate Judiciary Committee should continue to investigate whether Bush did indeed hold himself above the law by wiretapping ordinary Americans just because he wanted to.

What's so hard about that , Dr. Dean?

[madfloridian]

7. We should be interested in truth and honor, not revenge. He is right.

I think this thread is a little misrepresenting the way he handled it.

[snowbear]

8. You are 100% correct-a-mundo!

People here tend to jump to conclusions too quickly sometimes..

[flpoljunkie]

10. Dean's implication was he thinks Feingold's censure resolution is revenge.

If he had bothered to prepare himself, he could have at least said, let's continue the investigation and hearings in the Senate Judiciary Committee and let the chips fall where they may. And added that "no one is above the law, not even the president.

Remember how every Rethug hammered on this theme at every opportunity during the Clinton impeachment mess that it's about the "rule of law."

They never missed and opportunity to be aggressive. Why can't we do the same? Stand up for the rule of law?

Dean missed this opportunity.

[madfloridian]

11. I will post the transcript later.

That is not how he sounded.

[longship]

15. I agree. Dean handled it with aplomb.

nt

[flpoljunkie]

16. I saw it myself. Perhaps it is you who only see what you want to see.

Dean missed the boat.

[madfloridian]

18. No, it was excellent.

I am sorry, but that was a good interview.

[flpoljunkie]

20. It was good interview, but Dean missed chance to stand up for rule of law.

Democrats should not miss any opportunity to repeat that "no president is above the law" and that Congress must perform their oversight duties.

[madfloridian]

25. I think it was on purpose. I think demanding it right now is not good.

I think everyone just about knows the Democrats will do it if we win in November, but you do not go on TV and announce it so loudly. It is like we will do what's right kind of thing. He handled it well.

He was right not to turn it into a vindictive thing on TV.

[madfloridian]

4. He said they would look into all of it..

He did not sound lukewarm, he sounded as though they would consider all options, but not in threatening way. I taped it, will see just which word he used.

[snowbear]

6. He's not cold, hot, or lukewarm in my opinion...

He just isn't going to tell Tweety Nerd Matthews jack shit on what they can expect when Democrats take over in November!


Good for Dean!!!

[jaysunb]

12. Exactly correct !

Never give the other team your entire play book. Good cop, bad cop, now you see me , now you don't.

Time for Dems to get smart, and that includes the net/grassroots folks too.

[Crazy Guggenheim]

9. Well not many Democrats are for it. Besides even if they were it's

good he's keeping quiet.
On Edit. Same as Larrisa.


:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

[iconocrastic]

13. Why is it good he's keeping quiet?

I don't want this to get lost in the shuffle.

[FrenchieCat]

17. Because Censure doesn't really "do" anything......

and won't do anything prior to the election (cause we are not in the majority....and it is just NOT going to happen) short of revving up the Republican base to got out and vote to save the reputation of their Prezident....and the swing voters who may think that Dems are becoming too radical (since these days Censure is being conveyed by the media as though it's equivalent to impeachment) may tip their vote the wrong way (voting GOP) and we can't afford that.

Note that the races that we need to win, to gain control of the house, and therefore the power to investigate the President are in the red Districts, i.e., Republican districts or Districts that currently have a GOP member representing them.

If we were just to shut up about Censure for now....many GOPers will only have the "Dubai Port""Delay is a crook and so are others""WTF is going on in Iraq""Growing Deficit""I ain't got no Healthcare Plan" stew. Considering that many may just not vote Democratic (although some may)....others may opt to stay home for congressional elections as a way of voicing their displeasure with the way things have been handled. We, the Democrats, of course....profit from their fewer numbers.

Just like Hilary Clinton is seen as someone who could fire up "Their" base....
so does Censure and Impeachment talks (just listen to Chris Matthews handing the GOP that election advertisment day in day out....guess he's helping them out).

If Censure brought more than a spank on the hand of one who has losta Blood on it, it would be reasonable and something to discuss....AND, if we don't make any real gains in either house or senate following the '06 election...at that point we'd have nothing to lose to push it.

BUT Right now, pushing "censure" OR "Impeachment" is playing into the hands of the GOP who are looking for a distraction to run on ANYWAYS.

In fact, IF we win back the House....I say "Fuck" Censure.....because at that point, we would be free to pursue investigations and do "Impeachment" instead...which is the real punishment that fits the crime.

But for Democrats to show our cards as to what our intent may be once we are in the Driver's seat....right prior to an election....in this particular case would be foolish and a lost opportunity.

PS. This ain't about Feingold yes or Feingold NO....this is about strategizing in a way that maximizes our chances (again, Censure really won't pass at this point, and it ain't all that if it did...which it won't) as a nation to get back some control....cause Lord knows we need it.

Bottomline: Just calling for Censure right now doesn't do enough if anything but does give the GOP an excuse to scare it's own voters right into the voting booth!

[flpoljunkie]

22. No proof censure has revved up their base, altho sure revved up Limbaugh,

Hannity, and their ilk. Do you really think the Democrats would bring up censure after the election. Unwise, at best--something we agree on.

You are right. It is not about Feingold. It is about having the guts to stand up for what is right, and hold the Bush bastards accountable to the "rule of law." The Democrats are very good at "holding their powder." It has not worked so far.

[BootinUp]

24. How do you hold them accountable with a censure

resolution that will go down to a quick defeat and will cause some measure of backlash from the party in power. Thats a given btw, standard politics.

Answer: you can't

Alternative: Use any and all means of communication to raise awareness of the issue.

[longship]

14. That's fine.

Matthews was asking about Dems having an agenda for impeachment and/or censure. Dean correctly portrayed is it should be, as an accountability issue. There needs to be hearings and things.

The Repugs are trying to say that Dems stand only for impeachment. That is outrageously false. Dean is entirely correct to portray it the way he did.

[Andromeda]

19. Dean is playing it smart.

He handled himself very well and didn't allow himself to get trapped by Matthews. The latest Republican meme is that the Democrats are chomping at the bit to impeach Bush and that's why they want to take back the Senate and the House.

The Repukes want to torpedo the momentum the Democrats are gaining in the opinion polls by making them out to be the party of revenge.

Howard Dean actually didn't say whether the Dems will or will not take any action to impeach Bush by emphasizing the other important issues that need attention. I think he was very clever in his answers.

Departing a little from the impeachment/censure issue: Dean mentioned the "Fighting Dems"---Democratic veterans who are running for election in their districts. I forget how many there are but there is only one Republican, so far, in that group. This ought to dispell the myth that Democrats are weak on national defense.

[Adelante]

21. New DNC Fighting Dems site

http://www.democrats.org/page/content/fightingdems/index/

Dean, Clark and Fowler announced it yesterday, along with the DNC's new Democratic National Veterans and Military Families Council. Excellent!

[Cosmocat]

23. He did OK with it ...

Not quite fine tuned, yet ...

First, it would not hurt to note that the same republicans in Congress who put out hundreds of subpeonas, had over 20 congressional investigations including on fan mail for the friggen pet cat, and spent 80 million dollars trying to find a way to impeach Bill Clinton have issued ZERO subpeonas, held ZERO hearings in five plus years of Bushco rule, and now are screaming bloody murder about impeachment ...

WHAT DO THE HAVE TO HIDE ... Congress has an obligation to provide checks and balances, and oversight of the white house ... Republicans did this with GREAT enthusiasm in the 90s, before totally ignoring the duty the last six years ... All we ask is that Congress does what the constitution requies ...

Pose the question ... Do you know, definitively if the president or his admin have done anything wrong relative to the NSA witetaping, the outing of a CIA operative, misusing information relative to the start of a military overthrow of a soveign country ... NO ... These are SERIOUS issues that involve the rights of american people and the security of our country, and we NEED to know the answers ...

Whatever consequences MIGHT come from a revelation of the actions of the admin will be in direct relation to their actions ...