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Deja vu 1968: Hillary is Humphrey and Kerry is RFK

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quaoar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 12:56 AM
Original message
Deja vu 1968: Hillary is Humphrey and Kerry is RFK
That analogy comes from none other than Pat Buchanan, whose column today makes a great deal of sense. Hillary is quickly approaching her political Rubicon on Iraq. How long before she, too, calls for a quick withdrawal?

In the last half of his column, Buchanan rips Bush a new one by chronicling his numerous foreign policy failures.


http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=49641

The ice is cracking. With half the nation backing "Bring-the-Boys-Home-by-Christmas," Democratic support for getting out must be in the 60 percent range. Kerry is moving to the base of his party, not away from it. He is kissing the Joe Lieberman wing goodbye.

< snip >

In this huge sector of the Democratic Party there has been a vacuum, filled only by Rep. John Murtha and Sen. Russ Feingold. Now, every Democrat who sees himself as the alternative to Hillary is going to have to ask himself: What is the benefit of hanging back and standing with the Bush-Rumsfeld-Rice-Cheney stay-the-course policy?

Mrs. Clinton has been here before – in 1968. The Democratic Party is now there again, and she is in the role of Hubert Humphrey, tied to an unpopular war, while Kerry, like Robert F. Kennedy, has just decided the anti-war camp is where the action and passions are.

< snip >

Kerry's move could set off a stampede of centrist Democrats to back a timetable for withdrawal that will force Hillary to reconsider and force the GOP to stand by Bush, making "Iraq – Stay or Go?" the issue of 2006.


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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 01:06 AM
Response to Original message
1. Hillary is NO Humphry, and Kerry is certainly no RFK!
I occasionally agree with Pat, but he's off the mark on this one.

Perhapse many people are too young to remember Humphry or Bobby Kennedy.
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WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. I disagree, Kerry is an honorable successor to Bobby
I know quite a bit about Bobby and I think he would approve of the comparison. I certainly hope the comparison ends with policies, though. Too horrible to think about.

Hillary is not Humphrey, this is true - Humphrey was a solid New Deal liberal.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Kerry is more like Hubert Humphrey than Hillary is
Edited on Fri Apr-07-06 01:21 AM by JI7
Humphrey would have made a great President. that's one reason i don't like this article along with his entire spin of it being about polls. but it's BUchanan so it's to be expected.

also, the anti war candidate in 1968 was Eugene McCarthy

Kerry, Humphrey, Robert Kennedy, McCarthy all would have made/make great Presidents.

on edit, i want to add that all of these people had something to offer which was their own unique thing. it wasn't just about one simple image they all projected although there are some common things. and going back to 1968, young Kerry played his own part in those days that is still impressive.
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WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. Humphrey is very underrated
RFK would have won the candidacy that year, and I have no doubt he would have won, but it's a shame more people didn't unite behind Humphrey. Look what their snobbery got them - Nixon and national disgrace.
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. and likely liberalism wouldnt be a tainted word
Edited on Fri Apr-07-06 01:25 AM by JohnKleeb
Humphrey was a great guy from the start, his 1948 DNC Keynote address at the age of 37 urging hte party to leave the darkness of states rights and in to the sunshine of human rights is one of the reasons why I admrie him a lot. It's a shame really that there were some selfish people who refused to vote for him because he wasn't good enough for them, it's been said that if HHH had one more day to campaign, he likely would have beat Nixon. He would have been a worthly successor to LBJ in the domestic front from what I know too.
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GRLMGC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 01:27 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. He was also against the war personally
He had just made a promise to LBJ to not criticize his policies in public and he kept his word. If he hadn't, maybe he would have had a better chance. Not to mention, Nixon won. That surely wasn't better for the war!
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. *cough* Cambodia and Nixon
Edited on Fri Apr-07-06 01:30 AM by JohnKleeb
He was a good man, I mean its his speech that started the Dixiecrat exodus. Its really too bad he was never president, he's up there on my list of the best nominees we had that weren't president.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 01:32 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. me too
when i think of those who never became President but should have and would have been great i think of Humphrey.

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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 01:34 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. I have RFK on my list too but of actual nominees
Humphrey stands out to me, history would have turned out much differently if the democrats had won the 1968 election.
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 02:30 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. And they almost did. Humphrey came within a hair's breadth of that
victory. I listened to him on the tv when he gave his concession speech. He was dignified, if exhausted and torn to pieces. LBJ left him with hardly anything to go on or run with, and STILL he almost beat Nixon.

And we know what a slimeball Nixon was.

You are completely right, John -- among the people who were nominated but never won, Humphrey might very well have been a great president.

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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 02:45 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Its a shame really
I know that Nixon didn't destroy the Great Society but I think Humphrey could have really made it something magnificent.
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 02:48 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. Agreed. It was a lost opportunity. Too many people fleeing to Nixon
that year. Yuck.

And too many fled to Dubya against Gore, and later against Kerry. I put Gore and Kerry in there with some of our very best American public servants.

They were probably the rightful president, too. Bush cheats.

You hang in there, John. Good to bump into you on these boards.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 02:52 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. Nixon didn't, but Reagan started the process which hasn't stopped
there was a bit of pause during the Clinton years, but with Republicans controlling congress it was tough then also.

if Humphrey had been able to become President i think we could have avoided Reagan becoming President. Humphrey would have been able to have the power to get the American people to see the importance of the Great Society.

we did't get that with Nixon. while Nixon wasn't as bad as Reagan, it had more to do with the Dem Congress pressuring him. but we dind't have the power to really get it to the American people the way a President who was supportive would have done.

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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 03:24 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. Nixon wasn't nearly as bad as Reagan
I did a project last year on Applachia and a lot of hte projects that LBJ started in the Graat Society and even before with FDR in the New Deal were kept by Nixon, I guess the parrellel I see here is how Ike Eiseenhower didnt destroy the New Deal, Reagan however destoryed most of the accomplishments of hte past 50 years preceeding him, though many argue that Reagan was more likable, I think Nixon was the better president despite the evil shit he did.
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loyalsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #21
50. From what I understand
Nixon's more humble roots influenced him.
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Jersey Devil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #9
35. HHH - 'The Happy Warrior'
I agree. He would have made a very good President.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 07:27 AM
Response to Reply #1
30. You have to tell that to Teddy Kennedy then
who in speaking at the Kennedy Center in Boston last year when they gave Kerry a reward, said:

"John has said that my brothers, Jack and Bob, inspired him to pursuit of public service. John has brilliantly picked up the torch to inspire a new generation."


I think Kerry shares many values with RFK. Kerry is probably the closest modern counterpart to RFK. He shares also the same sense of outrage at things that are not what they should be and the same willingness to work for change. No person will, or should, be a clone of an earlier icon, but this is not a bad analogy.

The Humphrey reference for Hillary is more problematic - he is likely meaning that she is tacitly holding to the current President's position. But Humphrey was LBJ's VP and he was too loyal to ever blame LBJ for Vietnam - and LBJ was working to end the war. It's too early to know what the situation in Iraq will be - I would love it if Bush did something like Kerry's plan (saying either he was already doing it or that it was very very different.) Also, Hillary has been very quiet on Iraq - she can then take any position she chooses in 2007 or 2008.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 07:44 AM
Response to Reply #1
33. Ted Kennedy would disagree with you. He sees alot of his brothers in Kerry
and it seems many people are too young to remember who investigated and exposed IranContra, BCCI and CIA drugrunning, and illegal wars in Central America.

Kerry actually has the strongest anti-government corruption record of any modern day lawmaker.
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #1
38. I am old enough and I actually remember meeting Humphrey.
I hate to agree at all even in the slightest with Buchanan, but I think there is a lot of truth in what he says-to a point.
There is a lot to admire about Senator Kerry just as there was a lot to admire about Robert Kennedy.
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 01:08 AM
Response to Original message
3. No one should ever, ever treat a Humphrey comparison as insult
Even if it was Buchanan's intent to insult Mrs Clinton (of whom I'm no fan) with the "Humphrey of 2008" tag, this is no insult. Triple H would have been a better president than anyone he ever ran against--and in that I include his 1960 West Virginia primary opponent.

That said, it'll be a long time before I ever read anything from WND without profound skepticism again. Wait, I never believe any shit I read off that right wing loonifest site.
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GRLMGC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. Agreed nt
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WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. Very good point
Humphrey is incredibly underrated. It was his misfortune to be overshadowed by Bobby that year, though I do believe RFK would have won and been one of our greatest presidents. But the tumult of the year sort of swept Humphrey up in the storm, and it was the nation's loss.
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msgadget Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 01:15 AM
Response to Original message
5. Veer left, waaay left!
Edited on Fri Apr-07-06 01:17 AM by msgadget
Well, that'd be interesting to see, wouldn't it? Obviously some of the hesitation on the part of democrats has been so as not to aid potential '08 running mates. How interesting will it be for a whole gaggle of 'em (again) to stand on one stage trying to strike individual positions while also wooing the ever elusive swing voter? Not only is this a ghost of Humphrey/Kennedy, it could be a replay of '04 with different players. There's a lot of history for some to get past and the most consistent will have an advantage. Of course, it all depends on how calm Iraq is at the time...

What a great article, thank you, quoar!

Edit to add: the Humphrey comparison didn't really strike me as the most important part of the article. I actually...ignored it! :)

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rwenos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 01:31 AM
Response to Original message
12. Senator, I Knew Bobby Kennedy
To compare John Kerry, an earnest but pedestrian liberal Senator from Massachusetts, with Robert Francis Kennedy is an insult.

Bobby Kennedy sold a hostile Senate on the Civil Rights Act of 1964, deciding on a strategy of relying on the Commerce Clause instead of the 14th Amendment -- thus successfully finessing enough segregationist Democratic Senators to ensure the greatest extension of civil rights since the 13th Amendment.

Ask any Constitution expert. Bobby was THE MAN.

I like Kerry. But I loved Bobby.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #12
34. They're BOTH historic pols. Uncovering IranContra, BCCI, CIA drugrunning
and illegal wars in Central America, and writing presciently in 1996 about the growing terrorism threat and its global financing networks sets Kerry apart from the "pedestrian" label.

Exposing government corruption to the extent Kerry did, is nothing to yawn about. Had Clinton allowed the BCCI books to be opened, there wouldn't have BEEN a 9-11.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #12
36. I don't consider Kerry pedestrian
Teddy Kennedy said Kerry was carrying the torch to another generation (in 2005 at the Kennedy Center) RFK at this point is an icon - to most of us, the great things have been magnified (and they were fantastic to begin with) and the negatives have been muted. After the loss in 2004, the good things Kerry has done are given less weight and any flaws he has have been magnified. Also, Kerry's contributions are different - but at least include his protesting, his persistance in fighting the Contras and the CIA allowed drug running and BCCI. Kerry is a leader in demanding accountability that the government reflect our values.
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 08:24 AM
Response to Reply #12
41. You seem to be implying in your post that Senator Kerry has compared
himself to Robert Kennedy and this is not true. There was only one Bobby Kennedy, yet you have to admit that Senator Kerry does indeed believe in and act on some of the same ideals and principles that Kennedy did.
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 02:27 AM
Response to Original message
15. Huh? Rice is Humphrey. Hillary can dropkick that war whenever she wants.
Edited on Fri Apr-07-06 02:32 AM by McCamy Taylor
Cause she didnt start it and she is not the VP of the president who did. If she wants to says "Four years is lomng enough to end a war" just like Tricky Dick and vow to get the troops home, she can do it with a smile.


Humphrey comparison in terms of war means that she is supposed to be saddled with it the way Humphrey was saddled with it in 1968 and could not run against it cause of LBJ while Nixon a big hawk could lie and claim he was going to end it. It is not intended as a compliment towards Hillary. Paints her as a loser on the war issue.

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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 02:30 AM
Response to Original message
16. Pat Buchannan spreads disinformation all the time. Be careful.
He is tricky like that. Sometimes he will say the truth, but a lot of times he will say utter bullshit that is intended to have a desired political effect. Weigh his words carefully and watch his eyes. He gets this little smile when he thinks he is being cute.

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BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 05:39 AM
Response to Reply #16
23. Someone's with me.
Edited on Fri Apr-07-06 05:41 AM by BlueIris
I almost feel like I should delete my other post, because...in an MSM article, an RFK comparison to my beloved JFK is as terrifying for me to see as it is gratifying. I can't tell what Buchanan's motives are here, but for some, his mention of the RFK angle will only stir up more hatred for and fear of Kerry. Of the worst kind.
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BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 05:36 AM
Response to Original message
22. Okay, first of all: Make out with me.
Ahem. Wait, you reposted this from one of Pat Buchanan's intelligible works. Did I just ask Pat to make out with me? Well, believe it or not, I'm actually alright with that.

NOTHING COULD BE MORE ACCURATE OR CLOSER TO THE TRUTH. But, but...who's terrified of the fact that Buchanan just made an analogy between RFK and Kerry? That's my hand you see floating in the air. Be careful, Senator. I depend on you.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 05:49 AM
Response to Original message
24. In 1968, we had not only lost John F. Kennedy to assassination five years
before ( and learned only much later that he had not only refused to support the CIA plan to invade Cuba, he had signed an Executive Order withdrawing U.S. military 'advisers' from Vietnam just before he was killed); we had lost Martin Luther King in March 1968, to assassination, then Robert Kennedy, on the night he won the California primary. RFK was a changed man by the time he ran for president. Originally, he was a typical 'Cold Warrior,' and even worked for Joe McCarthy (the infamous 'anti-communist') in the '50s. He initially supported the war in Vietnam, but I believe that the Catholic antiwar movement--people like Fr. Dan Berrigan--may have influenced him; also, Martin Luther King (who had come out against the war publicly the previous year). He may also have been influenced by the trauma of his brother's death. I don't think it was a cynical political move on RFK's part, coming out against the war. He was a genuinely transformed person--rather like Al Gore is now. Both speak from some deep place inside of them, where head and heart have come together.

I didn't vote for Bobbie that day. I voted for Eugene McCarthy--the first presidential candidate to disavow the war. But I knew Bobby was going to win, and cheered him when he won that night in California. We couldn't have had a stronger presidential candidate and advocate for peace.

JFK--beloved by so many, and we didn't know all of what he had done, to maintain the peace. RFK, a man who not only engineered the Civil Rights Act, but who turned against LBJ's dreadful war. Martin Luther King.

Bang, bang, shoot, shoot. The latter two, in the midst of the presidential campaign of 1968.

And in 1968, we were right in the midst of the slaughter of upwards of TWO MILLION PEOPLE in Vietnam and Southeast Asia. The horror of those times is difficult to adequately describe.

And when the people tried to speak and be heard at the Democratic Party Convention in Chicago in 1968, a police riot was unleashed upon us, and many people were brutally beaten, and jailed, and inflicted with lengthy trials.

Not one word would Hubert Humphrey say against the horrific, on-going slaughter in Vietnam. Not one word. Not one gesture toward the many thousands of people who were crying out against that terrible war within earshot of the Democratic Convention--nor the slightest hint of sympathy for the brutality unleashed upon us, and the far worse brutality unleashed upon the people of Southeast Asia.

It was too much to bear. JFK. RFK. MLK. Within the space of five years. OUR representatives were being picked off, one by one. We were being brutally deprived of our leaders--three of the greatest men this country has ever produced. Men with vision. Men with true courage. JFK THWARTED the CIA on the Cuba invasion, and turned down all their nefarious schemes to create a Vietnam right off the coast of Florida. And RFK had the courage to CHANGE, to go deeper, to re-evaluate the Cold War and kneejerk anti-communism. He, a rich man's son, became an advocate for the poor and the black and the brown. His love of people was palpable. And Martin Luther King, what can I say? We were blest with Gandhi reborn, right amongst us, in the United States of America. He drew me out of my lily-white privileged life in California, down to Alabama in the summer of 1965, to register black citizens to vote. I purposely went there to broaden the target (three civil rights workers had been murdered in Mississippi the previous summer). Not in THIS country would they dare kill civil rights workers again!

And then they did. They killed HIM.

Oh, God! I can't tell you how awful it was. And it wasn't for civil rights. It was for Vietnam. I'm convinced about that now. It was his speech on the Vietnam War, which enraged the war profiteers. Same with JFK. Same with RFK. It was all about the war.

We forced LBJ to withdraw from the race, and denied him a second term. Then the bad guys found a way to have LBJ by another name: Hubert Humphrey. They killed Martin Luther King. They killed Bobby. And then gave us THEIR Democratic candidate to "choose" --LBJ's VICE PRESIDENT, who would not speak one word against the napalming of Vietnamese children and the fire-bombing of villages, and the bombing of Hanoi, which had no air force, and the slaughter...the slaughter.

I could not vote for him. My heart was broken. I simply couldn't do it. I could not vote for any man who could not speak against that slaughter, and who bargained for the nomination with lives of Vietnamese children and freedom fighters. That's who the Viet Cong were--people fighting for their freedom. And we were smashing and killing and burning them alive, as if they were insects, as if they were vermin.

1964 had been my first vote for president. I had been too young to vote for JFK in 1960. And in my first vote for president, I voted for the peace candidate. That's how they advertised LBJ. The peace candidate. Four years later, in 1968, something like half a million people were dead, bombed, burned, shot, by LBJ's orders. I was not about to be fooled again.

I couldn't vote for Nixon. That's where the phrase "dirty tricks" came from, in politics. He was a dirty trickster and a "red baiter." I did hold the outside hope that he might be forced to the peace table by the rebellion of the American people against the war. As it turned out, he was only faking it. (He escalated the war--and, in the end, the Vietnamese--those little brown peasants in straw hats and sandals--beat the U.S. military and drove them out of Vietnam, as they had been driving the imperialist Chinese and everybody else out of Vietnam for five thousand years.)

But I realize now that I might as well have voted for Nixon. Mine was a wasted vote. (I voted for Pope John XXIII--the ecumenical pope.)

Would I do it again? Probably not. Humphrey was a pretty good guy, I now realize--and the argument that he was secretly against the war is quite possibly true. But how could I know that? And, further, I was not exactly in my right mind. How could anyone be, who was so passionately involved in politics, and suffered what I and other committed youngsters had suffered in those five years--the uttering shattering of all our hopes and dreams and ideals about this country.

I'm a lot older now. I see one gigantic mistake that the antiwar movement made, and it is this: not dismantling the U.S. war machine when it might have been possible, after Vietnam and after Watergate. We were all too young, I guess--and, when they ended the Draft, a lot of the immediacy of the problem went away. But that's what we should have done. We should have been relentless in doing it. We probably prevented Vietnam from being nuked, but we did not end the war, and we didn't follow through on what really needed to be done.

Some amazing things happened, as a result of the leftist movement of the '60s, including Congress forbidding a war on Nicaragua, improvements in the CIA/FBI culture, a greatly improved policy on Latin America, and, of course, the end of segregation, the enfranchisement of black citizens, and great advances for women and for gays and other minorities (all of which the Bush junta is trying to destroy).

The music was great, too. What a liberation THAT was! That's what guys are really made for, you know--not for killing, but for making music. Well, girls, too. But, at that time, it was the guys. It was that the guys REALIZED they were created to make music and not to kill, and it was such a revelation. The Beatles were the best at making that point. They were Druids and Wizards of the most powerful popular music ever created, and they grew more and more political, and more and more pointed about what men should be doing, with one fabulous album after another, each one better than the last. We still had the ugliness of Reaganism and the slaughters in Nicaragua and El Salvador to come, and one more assassination. But something deep had changed in American life, and in western civilization: The idea that our brothers and sons and lovers were born to be cannon fodder.

That was the profoundest change of all--and the most threatening to rightwingers, fascists and war profiteers.

But we never seriously addressed the problem of the military-industrial complex that Eisenhower had warned us against. How right he was!

We might have done--if they hadn't killed all our leaders.

Which brings me back to the present. John Kerry. Is he like Robert Kennedy? No. He is too much of a mandarin, who couldn't get his hands dirty bothering about Bushite corporations having gained control of the election system with 'TRADE SECRET,' PROPRIETARY programming code and virtually no audit/recount controls. RFK would have been on that in a minute, way back when Tom Delay and Bob Ney did it, during the Anthrax Congress. RFK wouldn't have been intimidated by anthrax, or anything else. He would have busted their noses over 'trade secret' programming.

On the war, there is something of a parallel. Bobby CHANGED his position on the war. Kerry voted for the war--which is a huge black mark against him, especially AFTER Vietnam. Good God, couldn't he SEE what giving away war powers to George Bush would lead to? And if he changes his position NOW, and I don't mean merely calling for a more efficient war, as he did during the campaign, but has a genuine change of heart (which maybe...MAYBE his recent withdrawal plan might indicate), I suppose I could give him the benefit of the doubt. But I really don't trust him--the way one trusted Bobby. Kerry COULD be just another Middle East warrior who will permit some "Gulf of Tonkin" thing to happen, to widen the war, after he got into office. Dunno. I sense that he's a fairly decent guy. But he's not Bobby Kennedy. I don't believe that Bobby would have been capable of the kind of deception I've just described, and I think Kerry could be.

And that uncertainty about Kerry, by the way, makes him a bad candidate for president, because other people sense it, too. UNLESS he were to be combined with Al Gore, with Gore heading the ticket. THAT might work. The two men who were unfairly denied the office--the two men that most American voters voted for--running together, as the "poetic justice" ticket would be a winner. But Kerry alone would not be.

Is Hillary like Hubert Humphrey? To some extent, yes. They both sold their souls for the nomination. Humphrey, because the pro-war unions (some of them) and the war profiteers and the LBJ war faction would not let him have the nomination unless he shut his mouth about the slaughter in Vietnam. And Hillary--I think she's already made her deal with the devil. She WILL be the nominee. Diebold and ES&S can guarantee it.

But my perspective on this kind of corruption has changed. We have to face reality here. Our country and our democracy are in extremely great peril. In many ways, we don't have a democracy any more. In essence, we lost our sovereignty as a people, when the Bushite corporations took over the election system. Voting is how we exercise our sovereignty. It is our major power as citizens. Without it, the government ignores us--which is exactly what this illegitimate president and congress are doing.

And, although the election reform movement is growing by leaps and bounds--and is very much succeeding in raising consciousness--I just don't see any significant restoration of election transparency before 2008. Maybe I will be surprised. But I don't think so. The election system corruption is very deep and it is bipartisan. We are often having to fight our own party on it (amazingly--you'd think the Democratic leadership would object to Bushites 'counting' all the votes behind a veil of secrecy, wouldn't you? Funny, that.)

Anyway, it appears to me that Diebold--which until recently was headed by a Bush-Cheney campaign chair and "Pioneer" fundraiser--and ES&S--a spinoff of Diebold (similar computer architecture), initially funded by rightwing billionaire Howard Ahmanson, also known for his million dollar donations to extremist 'christian' groups--will be choosing the Democratic candidate for president in 2008, as well as controlling all other elections this year, and then. They may back off a bit this year, and give us a few gains in Congress--but nothing near a majority--in order to deflect attention from their fraudulent election system. But, on the whole, their 5% to 10% thumb on the scales for Bushites and warmongers will rule the day, and it will most certainly be used to prevent any real antiwar candidate and/or genuine populist from gaining the presidential nomination of either party.

And, given this dire circumstance, we have to be very strategic in our thinking. Our first priority MUST BE restoring our right to vote. If we can get that done quickly on a national basis, by pressuring Hillary on this "good government" issue, perhaps we should support Hillary, when she is "nominated," and not fuss to much about her warmongering and her corporatism.

I really mean this. While we won't be permitted to choose our nominee, we do have power in the election itself. If the left defects from Hillary, she cannot win--even if Diebold and ES&S decide to put her in the White House (for their own reasons). She has to have a pretty solid base--a lot of leftist votes, and a lot of leftist donations--to even get into a position to be Diebolded into office. We can wreck that. The questions is, should we?

Maybe we should bargain for transparent elections instead. We MUST get back our right to vote, for any change to be feasible--on almost any issue (with the exception of women's issues, which she might trade upon).

It's a very risky strategy. For one thing, there is no guarantee that a Diebold-elected president and congress--even Democratic ones--won't do more harm to the election system, such as requiring electronic voting, with a weak "paper trail" and inadequate auditing, and failing to ban "trade secret" programming. It's a long shot. But, with so much at stake, it seems worth it. The alternative is a long, difficult struggle through every state/county jurisdiction in the country, trying to increase election transparency by increments.

So I guess I've grown up a lot, since 1968. I am, in fact, much more radical than I was then. I think we need to dismantle the war machine (at least a 90% cutback--down to a true defensive posture--no more president's choice war), and we have to start pulling the corporate charters of US-based global corporate predators, as well as busting the corporate news monopolies. But I am also more realistic, more strategy-minded, and, in a way, less dogmatic and more compassionate. I feel for Kerry. Also for Hillary. I even feel for Bush sometimes (the dimwitted, mean little sod!). We're all caught in the midst of a lot of greed and horror, and we're all killing our planet. I guess I feel for the human race. And I see that we must find our way back to our creative selves, and to our can-do spirit as a nation. We're doing 25% of the damage to the planet. And the nuke situation is scary as hell. This country can make or break the planet, and everything on it. We MUST get it back into the control of the American people, who are good people. I am convinced of that. They have resisted the Bushites' relentless propaganda and fearmongering. Give them half a chance--give them back the right to vote--and they will set things right. I'm sure of it.

I believed in individual struggles, when I was young, and in individual heroes. Now I believe in the peoples' struggle, and in the fundamental rightness of democracy. And I must say that I am heartened by the peaceful, democratic, leftist revolution that has swept South America over the last several years (and is occurring in Mexico as well), one of the keys to which is TRANSPARENT elections. I've learned more respect for lo-o-o-o-ong term struggles, for perseverance, for the less flashy kinds of courage. The new indigenous Indian president of Bolivia, Evo Morales, has said this: "The time of the people has come." I feel that, too--despite how hopeless things may appear, from inside the U.S. right now. If the South Americans can do it--after all they've suffered--so can we. We can make a better country out this horrible mess that the warmongers have created. But we have to be patient, persistent, and relentless, the way Bobby Kennedy would have been. And we have to open ourselves up to the light of the universe, the way he was beginning to, in the last two years of his life.

Let that light live again--and pity the Hubert Humphreys who cannot see it, or cannot respond to it, because they are clouded by their ambition. Let that light live again, in all of us this time, as a collective realization that war and warmongering and war profiteering must be brought to an end.

"The time of the people has come."










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mrgorth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 07:01 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. They killed them
You're saying that JFK, RFK and MLK were all killed by the same people right? The republicans or the war machine?
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mrgorth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 07:02 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. delete
Edited on Fri Apr-07-06 07:03 AM by mrgorth
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #26
40. Yes.
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mrgorth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #40
43. Sorry.
Which?
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mrgorth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 07:23 AM
Response to Reply #24
29. This is a great post.
Thanks for it. I have to tell you that I CANNOT work for Hillary. I would give up my committeeman position if I had to. It's not just the war. It's the corporatism, her feeling that we're stuck in a global marketplace and we can't do anything to protect american jobs. Most of all, she can't win. Neither can JK by the way. We need someone else. THe party better not foist Hillary on us though. She'll get crushed.
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Love Bug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #24
37. Excellent post, Peace Patriot!
I was only 14 in 1968 but remember that year very well. First King, then Kennedy, it was too much to bear, even for my 14 year old, non- political self.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 08:09 AM
Response to Reply #24
39. I trust Kerry implicitly - he's an OPEN BOOK Government lawmaker and
Edited on Fri Apr-07-06 08:13 AM by blm
believes the people have the right to know.

It's the secret-keeping lawmakers that I do not trust.

It seems you bought into the media image of Kerry without bothering to READ the congressional and historic record.

How much WOULD you know about the last 35 years, if you took Kerry out of the picture?

Do you even know how many DEMOCRATS, including Gore at the time, sided with Reagan and Bush administrations on IranContra which Kerry worked alone to uncover and wanted Kerry to end his probe of BCCI and CIA drugrunning and the illegal wars in Central America?

Gore's been great RECENTLY and I have no doubt he would have been a very good president, but to say that he is more trustworthy than an open government Kerry, is just absurd, considering that Clinton/Gore administration refused to open the books on IranContra, and BCCI - and the CIA drugrunning evidence popped up during their term, yet they chose to not open those books, either. ALL of which drive events and our policies today.

That said, I appreciate the rest of your post and the eloquent revival of the 60s conscenceness. I was a gradeschool-age supporter of McCarthy, too.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #39
45. My dear, I haven't had a TV for twenty years, and I don't read a
daily newspaper. And my radio listening is pretty much confined to AAR and the BBC. For news, I come to DU, or to Google News, where I can read what Australians are seeing as news, or South Africans, or Canadians or Al Jazeera. So, how could I have "bought into the media image of Kerry"? My assessment of Kerry is based on his record, on what the man has said and done, throughout his life and recently. I did, however, go out of my way to see the debates. I thought Kerry won them, hands down--despite my uneasiness (and sometimes outrage) at what he had to say. (The outrage was mostly at things he DIDN'T say.) Bush was a basket case.

There is no queston that Kerry would have made a far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far...to infinity...better president than Bush.

My remarks about Kerry had nothing to do with his record in the Senate. He has a great record in the Senate, except for voting to give George Bush the power to slaughter tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis, and failing to say ONE WORD about Bushite corporations gaining control of our election system with SECRET PROGRAMMING. Those are two rather HUGE lapses in Mr. Open Government.

Sorry, I didn't mean to be sarcastic. But I'm going to let it stand, because I feel so strongly about those two things. That's what's happening NOW. And these two things are rather big--and could be said to be the source of all other problems.

What I'm trying to say is that Kerry as Senator and Kerry as presidential candidate are two different things. And THAT'S where I see a big difference with Gore. Gore is MUCH MORE LIKE ROBERT KENNEDY than Kerry is. Gore has changed in the deep way that Bobby Kennedy changed. The things that Gore is saying (and the way he is saying them--which I've seen on the net) are what I kept hoping and praying that Kerry would say, and he never did. For instance, the principle of decency and ethics and lawfulness, with regard to torture. I just DON'T UNDERSTAND why Kerry not only never mentioned it, but didn't nail Bush to the wall over it, as he should have. Nothing has so degraded us as a nation, and hurt so many military people, and so disgusted the world, as the U.S. torturing people. And nothing--not even the invasion--has so angered the Iraqi people. We've BECOME what Kerry fought against in Nicaragua and El Salvador. We've BECOME a fascist junta.

And Kerry just sort of mildly went along, and namby-pambied on this, and namby-pambied on that. The BCII prosecutor was entirely absent.

I also simply don't understand how Congress could give its war power away, after Vietnam--and how Kerry could vote for that. It's just beyond me. I REMEMBER the Vietnam vets' war crimes hearings! I remember what Kerry did there. How could he approve--and vote for--that happening again?

And his defense of himself made me sick. I listened very carefully to what he had to say. And, let me tell you, he is no Bobby Kennedy. When Bobby Kennedy decided to run for president, and decided to run against the war, you knew two things: One, that he WOULD be president. And two, that he WOULD end the war.

Nothing Kerry said came across with the conviction and fire needed to get it done. It's probable that he does have conviction and fire. But they're very well-hidden.

And I thought that his little salute and "reporting for duty" thing at the Dem Convention was just pandering to minority war nuts and war profiteers. You would NEVER have seen Bobby Kennedy pull a stunt like that. I thought it was offensive. And meanwhile, the REAL patriots--the people who had to sacrifice to be there, who represented the NINETY PERCENT of the Democratic Party who oppose this war--were caged outside in the "orange zone," excluded from the Dem Party Convention once again, just like in 1968.

It's not Hillary who is Hubert Humphrey. It's John Kerry who is Hubert Humphrey--someone who has compromised his integrity in order to have it both ways on the war, politically. Both Kerry AND Hillary started hedging their bets back in 2002. I could smell it. They didn't know which way the wind was going to blow. And now both of them think they are going to capitalize on the country's vast discontent.

I think I'm speaking reality here. I think it's time we faced reality. We are not going to have a choice on the matter of war. We ARE going to have a War Democrat shoved down our throats. And, frankly, given that reality, I would prefer that it be John Kerry, who was actually elected president of the United States, and, like Gore, got cheated out of the office. I don't like cheating. Whatever I think of him, Kerry won. I am convinced of that.

But I don't think Kerry can succeed as a candidate for president again. He gave up too easily--whatever his reasons were. He abandoned the American people--the people who elected him. That is how he is perceived by the on-the-ground activists, whom he needs to win. We won't do it for him again.

However, I DO think that a Gore-Kerry ticket could win, and win big--big enough to beat the machines all to hell. Because they are the two men whom the American people voted for, instead of this nightmare. That native sense of justice--and love of poetic justice--that I think characterizes my fellow Americans would give them, as a joint ticket, with Gore as the presidential candidate, the biggest electoral victory we've ever seen. The excluded and disappeared votes might reduce it to, say, 60%. But even that is a landslide. I think their actual win would be bigger.

But I don't think Gore will pass muster with the fascists. And the fascists control the voting machines with "trade secret" programming. They rule over us.

Also, I did not say that Gore is more trustworthy than Kerry. I haven't trusted any politician, really, since LBJ sold himself to me as a peace candidate. And, as I said, I voted for Eugene McCarthy--and you know what my reason was (besides that he was the first prez candidate to be against the war)? My reason was, "to keep Bobby honest." I liked Bobby. There was a deep genuineness about him. And I trusted him more than most. But it wasn't total trust, even back then. And I don't trust Gore. He still hasn't said anything about NAFTA, that I know of. But what he HAS said is so stunning, and so right on--and he says it SO WELL--that I am inclined to believe that he has re-thought EVERYTHING, on his sabbatical, and is now his own man, apart from the Clintons and their DLC-type cozying with Bushites and corporatists. (He had something of a Humphrey problem there for a while--tied to the bad policy of a strong leader.)

We'll see about Gore. On Gore/Kerry, I'm talking about electability--not trustworthiness, particularly.

Another difference between Kerry and Bobby Kennedy is that, it would have surprised me if Bobby had broken his word. With Kerry, it wouldn't. He has already done so. He said, "Every vote will be counted." Then he folded on Nov. 3, with votes still being counted (--and miscounted!) And he went into hiding as the egregious violations of the Voting Rights Act emerged in Ohio. He just wasn't committed. He didn't seem to care. Tens of thousands--Greg Palast estimates a million, nationwide--black voters were disenfranchised in that election. Bobby Kennedy would have been THERE, in Ohio, standing in the 5 to 10 hour long voting lines, in the rain, with the poor black citizens who were being robbed of their vote, and had to make it to their second shit-pay job, or had to go home to feed the children, because they can't afford child care. Kerry just doesn't have that kind of chutzpah. As I said, he didn't seem to care. And he PROMISED. It was a major promise of his campaign. (And he let Terry McAulife cheat me out of a hundred hard-earned dollars that night--which they were soliciting for their election LEGAL FUND!) (I wrote to him and asked for my money back. He soon resigned as DNC chair, and I like to think that I had some little part in removing the DNC chair who gave away our right to vote to Diebold and ES&S.)

I'm getting very pragmatic in my my old age. I see that we, the heart and soul of the Dem Party, and its vast majority--and, from what I can gather from all the polls over the last two and half years, the heart and soul of America, generally--are going to end up very unhappy campers again. We might even tear the Dem Party and the country to pieces. I don't favor that. (Germany 1933 gives me the willies-- the fragmentation of the center/left, and its inability to govern, was key to Hitler's rise.) But I don't have to like the reality that I see. And I think we need to talk about this situation of a fascist coup, and our party leaders' relationship to it, openly and frankly.

When I go on ragging Kerry, please don't take it personally. I voted for the man, and strongly supported him. And I would again, against almost any conceivable Republican. And I will vote for and support Hillary, if I think we can get transparent elections out of her (and not just another shyster "Hack America's Vote Act.") Because I've decided that restoring our right to vote is PRIORITY NO. 1. No real reform is possible without it. And, without it, we are wide open to bottomless theft by the rich, and endless war--and a full-bore Nazi regime.

But when we say "I wont' vote for" somebody or other, or "I will vote for...," it doesn't have the meaning it used to have, with Dieobold and ES&S now "tabulating" all our votes in secret. It means SOMETHING. Candidates have to have some measure of support in order to get Diebolded into office. And I do think that big turnout can defeat the machines. But we are looking at a far, far different situation than the one in 1968. We still had real journalists, for one thing. (We have them now, on the internet--mostly independent bloggers--but almost nowhere else in the U.S..) We still had a democracy--wherein the people, or the Congress, could force a president from office for great violations of trust, like the Vietnam War and Watergate. These days, major violations of trust are almost a daily occurrence--and no one can do anything about it. We had some ballot box stuffing back then, but nothing on the scale that we have now, and that is possible now, with electronic voting and its hackability (millions of votes can be changed, in a split second, leaving no trace). We had 'dirty tricks.' Again, nothing on the scale of the Bushites' swiftboatings of John Kerry, Max Cleland and John McCain, or the 'shout' video of John Dean, or the destruction of Kevin Shelley (in Calif), or the forced retirement of Dan Rather. (--to name a few). Nixon had an "enemies list," but he never would have dreamed of outing a CIA agent, or smearing a war hero. They did break into Daniel Ellsberg's psychiatrist's office, looking for dirt (the Pentagon Papers whistleblower), and into the Dem Party headquarters in the Watergate (looking for? --we still don't know what). But, then again, they GOT CAUGHT, and were THROWN OUT OF OFFICE.

It was a different world--and, for all its horror, a better country. But we lost it, and now we have this one. So, what are we going to do about it?

---------

My suggestion (and mantra) is: Thow Diebold and ES&S election theft machines into 'Boston Harbor' NOW!*

*(However, I think it's going to take a while, with struggles in every state/county jurisdiction in the country, over a goodly period of time. And that's just step one of what we have to do--restrieving our right to vote.)





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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #45
48. No Dem has come out publicly on the voting machines - and those who SHOULD
Edited on Fri Apr-07-06 12:04 PM by blm
have been on top of voting machines were running the entire Dem party infrastructure - no candidate was in charge of the voting machines. The machines needed securing BEFORE the vote - after is too late.

Kerry called for Rumsfeld to be fired twice, after Tora Bora and after Abu Ghraib - of COURSE few in the media would talk about that development because they were still in protect the Bushboy mode. No wonder few here even heard about it, however MoveOn did join his call to fire Rumsfeld.

And Kerry talked quite often about the corporate friendliness of Bush. You say you only saw the debates, then complain that Kerry said nothing throughout the campaign. He had hundreds of speeches about closing loopholes for corporations, called them robber barons, sent up a resolution in protest of FCC easing regulations on media owners, advocated to set aside ONE-THIRD of all government contracts specifically for SMALL BUSINESSES, and STOP all contracts for any business with a record of illegal actions or who avoided paying taxes by using offshore banking.

I believe your sincerity, but am puzzled by the disconnect - you can't name one lawmaker who has exposed more government corruption than John Kerry has, yet he seems to get the brunt of your blame for issues he had no control over.

Right now, Kerry is the ONLY lawmaker who believes the machines are rigged - his own investigator on IranContra and BCCI has said so publically. That's a huge first step - believing it happened. The problem is that NO OTHER senator he has spoken to about it to enlist their support believes the machines are rigged.

I am with you 100% on the machines - but WHO will expose the machine fraud? When it turns out to be Kerry or people working with Kerry, will it have helped that so many have kicked him to the curb and questioned his credibility?
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quaoar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #24
42. Excellent post
I don't think Buchanan was trying to say that Kerry is just like RFK and Hillary like Humphrey. He was trying to make the point that Hillary, like Humphrey, represents the establishment position and that Kerry has done what RFK did by coming out against Vietnam. The comparison was to the positions, not the personalities.

That said, I was much too young to vote in 1968, or to worry about the draft, but I remember it quite well. I was in the fifth grade and living in Buffalo that year. It was the year I became politically aware. I remember the Soviet tanks crushing the Prague Spring. I remember MLK being gunned down on my father's birthday. And I remember my mother taking me to church to light a candle when RFK was shot.

By that fall we had moved to Atlanta and my school had a mock election. Wallace won.

Yes, it was quite a year.
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fujiyama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 06:37 AM
Response to Original message
25. Hillary
isn't nearly as liberal as Humphrey and Kerry isn't nearly as charismatic as RFK (though I do believe he's a great senator and a fine successor to him).

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mrgorth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 07:03 AM
Response to Original message
28. I don't know enough about HHH.
But, as much as I like JK, he's no RFK. RFK brought it every single time. He was a passionate man. Part of JK's problem in 04 was that he WAS wishy washy.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 07:33 AM
Response to Original message
31. LOL...Pitchfork Pat...
There's a source to be listening to, all right.
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 07:40 AM
Response to Original message
32. "there has been a vacuum..." Bullshit!
Office of U.S. Representative Neil Abercrombie
1502 Longworth Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Website: http://www.house.gov/abercrombie/
Phone: 202-225-2726

Office of U.S. Representative Tammy Baldwin
1022 Longworth House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Website: http://tammybaldwin.house.gov
Phone: 202-225-6942

Office of U.S. Representative Xavier Becerra
1119 Longworth House Office Building
Washington, D. C. 20515
Website: http://becerra.house.gov
Phone: 202-225-6235

Office of U.S. Representative Madeleine Z. Bordallo
427 Cannon House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Website: http://www.house.gov/bordallo
Phone: 202-225-1188

Office of U.S. Representative Corrine Brown
2444 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Website: http://www.house.gov/corrinebrown
Phone: 202-225-0123

Office of U.S. Representative Sherrod Brown
2332 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Website: http://sherrod.house.gov/
Phone: 202-225-3401

Office of U.S. Representative Michael Capuano
1530 Longworth House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Website: http://www.house.gov/capuano
Phone: 202-225-5111

Office of U.S. Representative Julia Carson
1535 Longworth House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Website: http://www.juliacarson.house.gov
Phone: 202-225-4011

Office of U.S. Representative Donna Christensen
1510 Longworth House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Website: http://www.house.gov/christian-christensen/
Phone: 202-225-1790

Office of U.S. Representative William "Lacy" Clay
131 Cannon House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Website: http://www.house.gov/clay
Phone: 202-225-2406

Office of U.S. Representative Emanuel Cleaver
1641 Longworth House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Website: http://www.house.gov/cleaver
Phone: 202-225-4535

Office of U.S. Representative John Conyers
2426 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Website: http://www.house.gov/conyers
Phone: 202-225-5126

Office of U.S. Representative Elijah Cummings
2235 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Website: http://www.house.gov/cummings
Phone: 202-225-4741

Office of U.S. Representative Danny Davis
1222 Longworth House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Website: http://www.house.gov/davis
Phone: 202-225-5006

Office of U.S. Representative Peter DeFazio
2134 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Website: http://defazio.house.gov
Phone: 202-225-6416

Office of U.S. Representative Rosa DeLauro
2262 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Website: http://www.house.gov/delauro
Phone: 202-225-3661

Office of U.S. Representative Lane Evans
2211 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Website: http://www.house.gov/evans
Phone: 202-225-5905

Office of U.S. Representative Sam Farr
1221 Longworth House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Website: http://www.house.gov/farr
Phone: 202-225-2861

Office of U.S. Representative Chaka Fattah
2301 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Website: http://www.house.gov/fattah
Phone: 202-225-4001

Office of U.S. Representative Bob Filner
2428 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Website: http://www.house.gov/filner
Phone: 202-225-8045

Office of U.S. Representative Barney Frank
2252 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Website: http://www.house.gov/frank
Phone: 202-225-5931

Office of U.S. Representative Raul Grijalva
1440 Longworth House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Website: http://www.house.gov/grijalva
Phone: 202-225-2435

Office of U.S. Representative Luis Gutierrez
2367 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Website: http://www.house.gov/gutierrez
Phone: 202-225-8203

Office of U.S. Representative Maurice Hinchey
2431 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Website: http://www.house.gov/hinchey
Phone: 202-225-6335

Office of U.S. Representative Jesse Jackson, Jr.
2419 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Website: http://www.house.gov/jackson
Phone: 202-225-0773

Office of U.S. Representative Sheila Jackson-Lee
2435 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Website: http://www.jacksonlee.house.gov
Phone: 202-225-3816

Office of U.S. Representative Stephanie Tubbs Jones
1009 Longworth House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Website: http://www.house.gov/tubbsjones/
Phone: 202-225-7032

Office of U.S. Representative Marcy Kaptur
2366 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Website: http://www.kaptur.house.gov
Phone: 202-225-4146

Office of U.S. Representative Carolyn Kilpatrick
1610 Longworth House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Website: http://www.house.gov/kilpatrick
Phone: 202-225-2261

Office of U.S. Representative Dennis Kucinich
1730 Longworth House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Website: http://kucinich.house.gov
Phone: 202-225-5871

Office of U.S. Representative Tom Lantos
2413 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Website: http://www.house.gov/lantos
Phone: 202-225-3531

Office of U.S. Representative Barbara Lee
1724 Longworth House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Website: http://lee.house.gov
Phone: 202-225-2661

Office of U.S. Representative John Lewis
343 Cannon House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Website: http://www.house.gov/johnlewis
Phone: 202-225-3801

Office of U.S. Representative Ed Markey
2108 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Website: http://www.house.gov/markey
Phone: 202-225-2836

Office of U.S. Representative Jim McDermott
1035 Longworth House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Website: http://www.house.gov/mcdermott
Phone: 202-225-3106

Office of U.S. Representative James McGovern
430 Cannon House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Website: http://www.house.gov/mcgovern
Phone: 202-225-6101

Office of U.S. Representative Cynthia McKinney
320 Cannon House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Website: http://www.house.gov/mckinney
Phone: 202-225-1605

Office of U.S. Representative George Miller
2205 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Website: http://www.house.gov/georgemiller
Phone: 202-225-2095

Office of U.S. Representative Gwen Moore
1408 Longworth House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Website: http://www.house.gov/gwenmoore
Phone: 202-225-4572

Office of U.S. Representative Jerry Nadler
2334 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Website: http://www.house.gov/nadler
Phone: 202-225-5635

Office of U.S. Representative Eleanor Holmes-Norton
2136 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Website: http://www.house.gov/norton
Phone: 202-225-8050

Office of U.S. Representative John Olver
1111 Longworth House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Website: http://www.house.gov/olver
Phone: 202-225-5335

Office of U.S. Representative Major Owens
2309 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Website: http://www.house.gov/owens
Phone: 202-225-6231

Office of U.S. Representative Ed Pastor
2465 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Website: http://www.house.gov/pastor
Phone: 202-225-4065

Office of U.S. Representative Donald Payne
2209 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Website: http://www.house.gov/payne
Phone: 202-225-3436

Office of U.S. Representative Charles Rangel
2354 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Website: http://rangel.house.gov
Phone: 202-225-4365

Office of U.S. Representative Bobby Rush
2416 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Website: http://www.house.gov/rush
Phone: 202-225-4372

Office of U.S. Representative Bernie Sanders
2233 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Website: http://bernie.house.gov
Phone: 202-225-4115

Office of U.S. Representative Jan Schakowsky
1027 Longworth House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Website: http://www.house.gov/schakowsky
Phone: 202-225-2111

Office of U.S. Representative Jose Serrano
2227 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Website: http://www.house.gov/serrano
Phone: 202-225-4361

Office of U.S. Representative Louise Slaughter
2469 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Website: http://www.slaughter.house.gov
Phone: 202-225-3615

Office of U.S. Representative Hilda Solis
1725 Longworth House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Website: http://solis.house.gov
Phone: 202-225-5464

Office of U.S. Representative Pete Stark
239 Cannon House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Website: http://www.house.gov/stark
Phone: 202-225-5065

Office of U.S. Representative Bennie Thompson
2432 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Website: http://benniethompson.house.gov
Phone: 202-225-5876

Office of U.S. Representative John Tierney
120 Cannon House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Website: http://www.house.gov/tierney
Phone: 202-225-8020

Office of U.S. Representative Tom Udall
1414 Longworth House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Website: http://www.tomudall.house.gov/
Phone: 202-225-6190

Office of U.S. Representative Nydia Velazquez
2241 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Website: http://www.house.gov/velazquez
Phone: 202-225-2361

Office of U.S. Representative Maxine Waters
2344 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Website: http://www.house.gov/waters
Phone: 202-225-2201

Office of U.S. Representative Diane Watson
125 Cannon House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Website: http://www.house.gov/watson
Phone: 202-225-7084

Office of U.S. Representative Mel Watt
2236 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Website: http://www.house.gov/watt
Phone: 202-225-1510

Office of U.S. Representative Henry Waxman
2204 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Website: http://www.henrywaxman.house.gov
Phone: 202-225-3976

Office of U.S. Representative Lynn Woolsey
2263 Rayburn House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
Website: http://woolsey.house.gov
Phone: 202-225-5161

....for starters.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
44. So, Kerry will be shot by a Palestinian, and
Hillary will lose to former VP Dan Quayle?
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
46. Humphrey is my political hero...and I am a Hillary supporter...
And though I do not think Hillary has yet achieved what HHH did...she is capable...

I do not view a Humphrey comparison to Hillary as an insult at all...
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
47. Coming from Pat Buchanan, none of the two is a compliment!
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
49. Does that mean that Pat his having warm fuzzy feelings
about a former Nixon nemesis. If so, the sky is truly falling.

I disagree with why Kerry's doing this. For him, it was simply time. The window had simply closed. Iraq was no longer salvageable. Kerry wanted to give them time after the election to do SOMETHING. He did that. Now he wants the troops home.
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Ignacio Upton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-07-06 05:32 PM
Response to Original message
51. Wasn't Kerry being compared to Humphrey just two years ago?
I remember some progressives saying how Kerry was indecisive about Iraq just as Humphrey was about Vietnam. I like the fact that Kerry is sticking up for us now, but (and I'll get flamed for this,) but I'm a little cynical about to what extent he is going to do this, especially since he might run again.
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