DU Lawyers! Front and Center! Executive Order 12958: Help!

[Warren Stupidity]

Please refer to http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/03/20030325-11.html

or to the cornell links here: http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode42/usc_sec_42_00002162----000-notes.html

I think the standing executive order that applies is 12958 and I think that declassification requires a 'Declassification Guide' (except in emergencies) and that Mr. Bush has violated the law, plain and simple, unless he can come up with the Declassification Guide or the directive requesting the agency (NSA?) to create one for the sections of the NIE he spontaneously declassified.

Please help!

[DoYouEverWonder]

1. Fortunately, all that doesn't even matter

because Bush lied.

He lied to the prosecutors in a Grand Jury Investigation. He lied to the American people repeatedly.

The only thing he hasn't lied about is not getting a blow job because no one will give him one.

[Warren Stupidity]

5. Well actually it does matter.

If the assertion is being made that nothing illegal occurred when in fact Mr. Bush violated his own executive order, then the spin is yet another lie. I understand that "He lied to the prosecutors in a Grand Jury Investigation. He lied to the American people repeatedly". He also may have admitted to violating the law by admitting that he released the contents of the NIE without a Declassification Guide.

[Ian David]

8. I'll give Bush a blow-job if it'll get him impeached

I heard it's not so bad if you pretend you're sucking something else.

[leftyladyfrommo]

21. I wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole.

He looks like he has cooties for brains.

[Arkansas Granny]

11. If all it took was a bj to guarantee impreachment, I'll bet you

could find some volunteers to do it for the good of the country.

:patriot:

[hootinholler]

24. There would be a line from 1600 Pa. Ave. to New York City. n/t

[Marnieworld]

27. I'd even swallow

God Bless America!
:patriot:

[DontBlameMe]

28. Hell, I'd give him a reach around!

Let the Eagle soooooooooooooaar!

[Arkansas Granny]

29. A true patriot! Bless you, my child.

:loveya:

[Marnieworld]

30. Anything for my country

That's the kind of gal I am. :hi:

[banana republican]

36. don't swallow n/t

[leftyladyfrommo]

20. Oh, good one!

Clintons little indescretion is starting to look pretty harmless, isn't it.

[KansDem]

22. LOL! "...because no one will give him one"

That tickled me! :D

[Terre]

2. I'm not a lawyer, but

you might want to pop over to my earlier post, for a bit of info, courtesy of Henry Waxman:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2557032

IMHO, he didn't declassify it via normal channels, i.e. Tenet at the least, he just authorized Scooter to leak selectively to ONE PERSON (Judith Miller), with the suggestion by Cheney (I think) that it be on deep background and as a former hill staffer.

[Warren Stupidity]

10. Well that is sort of a reverse twist on it.

That approach is too complicated for me. If declassification requires a Declassification Guide, and if neither Cheney nor Bush directed the agency that owns the NIE to produce one, then the law was violated. All they have to do is produce the guide, which I don't think they can.

[napi21]

3. John Dean, on Olberman last night said, the executive order

a doc. can be declassified by the Dept. superior, and as President, Shrub did have the authority to declassify it, BUT there is a precedure that must be followed, and unless Shrub CHANGED the requirements of the original executive order, it appears that he did break the law by not following the procedure.

[Warren Stupidity]

6. That is my interpetation too and the procedure is the cited EO.

[napi21]

19. Problem is TODAY Scotty McLiar said "Procedure was followed!"

I don't know if there's any proof of that, or should I say "if they manufactured any proof of that", but appparently they are aware of the issue!

[joanski0]

23. I think that one of the articles that I read

about this said that the procedures were followed AFTER the leak occurred.

[worldgonekrazy]

31. Yeah that was my take

Scotty said that the document was declassified through proper procedure "around the same time" in July of 2003, but this leak is believed to have occured in JUNE. Sounds like an after-the-fact declassification to me.

[laugle]

32. One thing they know how to do is COVER THEIR ASSES!!

Especially with that scumbag, Gonzales!!

Besides, if things get too heated Bush will just pardon Libby!!

We should really think about getting rid of Gonzales, it's obvious he does not work for the people, but as Bush's private attorney.

Let's see....got around the torture laws, everytime Bush breaks a law Gonzales finds loophole and deems it LEGAL.....illegal wiretaps become legal.....search your home no warrant....legal......read your e-mails.....legal......declare you an enemy combatant with no legal representation.......legal......

According to Gonzales, this maniacal president can do anything he damn well pleases!!!

TIME TO TURN UP THE HEAT ON GONZALES NOW!!!

[Warren Stupidity]

25. Then they can produce the Decalssification Guide.

This either documents a leak as it does not predate the selective release of the NIE, clears the VP and the President of wrong doing, or will be another felony on the road to ruin or overt dictatorship.

I say bring it on!

[Avalux]

4. My understanding, and I am NOT an attorney.

1. In order to declassify the NIE report, Bush was required to consult with the head of the CIA, Tenet, which he did not.

2. The entire report was not declassified, only the information that could be used to validate the WH's argument for war. Negative information was not disclosed.

These two points, IMHO, make the declassification of the information illegal. The information was not released in its entirety and it was not done for the public good but for political purposes meant to mislead the public.

[Pryderi]

7. Nothing in this order shall supersede any requirement made by or

I'm not a lawyer, but

Sec. 6.2. General Provisions. (a) Nothing in this order shall supersede any requirement made by or under the Atomic Energy Act of 1954, as amended, or the National Security Act of 1947, as amended. "Restricted Data" and "Formerly Restricted Data" shall be handled, protected, classified, downgraded, and declassified in conformity with the provisions of the Atomic Energy Act of 1954, as amended, and regulations issued under that Act.

(b) The Attorney General, upon request by the head of an agency or the Director of the Information Security Oversight Office, shall render an interpretation of this order with respect to any question arising in the course of its administration.

(c) Nothing in this order limits the protection afforded any information by other provisions of law, including the Constitution, Freedom of Information Act exemptions, the Privacy Act of 1974, and the National Security Act of 1947, as amended. This order is not intended to and does not create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law by a party against the United States, its departments, agencies, officers, employees, or agents. The foregoing is in addition to the specific provisos set forth in sections 3.1(b) and 5.3(e) of this order."

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/03/20030325-11.html

[Ian David]

12. The Constitution is a valuable tool. But it was written before 9/11...

when America thought it was protected by vast oceans un-crossable by British and German troops. Isolated from any sort of "native" people who could do us harm.

Executive Orders written by ex-Presidents are just suggestions. They are ex-Presidents. Why should we follow orders of someone who isn't President anymore? When you buy a house, the previous owner might leave a note that says, "Keep thermostat at 65 degrees. But you're the new owner. It's your house. You don't have to follow that order. If past Presidents were so good at writing executive orders, why aren't they still President? Bush's executive orders will be around a long time, because he's going to write one that says he doesn't have to stop being pResident because we are at war.


:sarcasm:

[Warren Stupidity]

13. That is fine - Bush signed on to it.

Executive Order
Further Amendment to Executive Order 12958,
As Amended, Classified National Security Information

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/03/20030325-11.html

[Ian David]

14. Well, maybe he had his fingers crossed behind his back? n/t

[eomer]

35. Executive orders written by ex-Presidents are law, until revoked.

On edit: OOPS! just noticed the sarcasm dripping thingy. Oh well, it's not as much fun if we're actually in agreement, but I'll leave my post anyway. :D

And an EO written by the current President is law and must be followed by everyone, including the President, until it is amended or revoked by the President. In other words, he can revoke an EO by issuing another EO but, barring that, is bound by it.

(IANAL so someone correct me if I'm wrong).

Look at a few EOs written by JFK. Some of them revoke EOs written in the 50s. Some of them are amended or revoked decades later.

http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/executive-orders/1961-kennedy.html

-snip-

Executive Order 10917
Abolishing certain committees on Government organization and management improvement

* Signed: February 10, 1961
* Federal Register page and date: 26 FR 1239, February 14, 1961
* Amends: EO 10072, July 29, 1949
* Revokes: EO 10432, January 24, 1953

Top of Page

Executive Order 10918
Establishing the President's Advisory Committee on Labor-Management Policy

* Signed: February 16, 1961
* Federal Register page and date: 26 FR 1427, February 18, 1961
* Revoked by: EO 11710, April 4, 1973

Top of Page

Executive Order 10919
Creating an emergency board to investigate a dispute between the Pan American World Airways, Inc., and certain of its employees

* Signed: February 17, 1961
* Federal Register page and date: 26 FR 1463, February 21, 1961
* Amended by: EO 10926, March 18, 1961
* Revoked by: EO 12553, February 25, 1986

Top of Page

Executive Order 10920
Revoking Executive Order No. 10700 of February 25, 1957, as amended (Operations Coordinating Board)

* Signed: February 18, 1961
* Federal Register page and date: 26 FR 1463, February 21, 1961
* Revokes: EO 10700, February 25, 1957

-snip-

Emphasis added.

[melissinha]

9. I know this is immaterial, but what does Poppy think of this

Being ex-CIA and condemning this kind of stuff?

[Coexist]

15. knr for an answer.

[Warren Stupidity]

18. Thanks. One More Please!

[NMDemDist2]

16. one more little kickeroo. and the 4th nom for the DU lawyers. n/t

[Warren Stupidity]

17. Thanks! One more Volunteer Needed!

[zulchzulu]

26. I just told John Nichols (Nation) about this...

He's on it...

[donkeyotay]

33. I cannot help you, but I'll give a kick for a very good question

There's been a whole lot of "everyone knows" and "of course, the President can declassify, spy, start wars," etc. But can he "spontaneously declassify?" Can he just shoot from the hip and reveal an undercover agent? That doesn't seem very governmental to me as nobody burns paper better than our federal government.

Also, why did Tenet get em bunched enough to order an DoJ investigation? Wasn't he informed that the UE had spontaneously declassified his agent?

[orleans]

34. K&R

would like to know -- where's all these liberal lawyers we keep hearing so much about??

[NVMojo]

37. KICK!