What do you think the line of succession should be?

[serryjw]

IF Prez and VP were gone (assassination/illness) at the SAME time...Who do you think should be the next in line. The idea of Speaker or Pres Pro Tempore be the next in line never made any sense to me. They are elected by a small amount of people, the position is a political appointment and they have little Executive/Foreign Policy experience.

IF we lost BOTH the country would be in need of leadership. I could understand the 3 following.Your opinion


Secretary of State
Secretary of the Treasury ( I'd be concerned with the dollar)
Secretary of Defense

[mishanti]

1. None of them are great options

but I would have to say that I would prefer the Secretary of Treasury as the other 2 should be in a jail somewhere that allows renditions!

[serryjw]

2. This was a general question

NOT specific to the present crooks & liars

[snowbear]

6. Welcome to DU Shanti !!

[brainshrub]

13. Welcome to DU.

:toast:

[snowbear]

3. If they both went at once (as it's set up now....)

I think the President would be Hastert, and the VP would be Ted Stevens.



As far as picking a new succession.. ..I can't think of any of them that I'd like to see.

[David in Canada]

18. Actually,,,

If someone on the line of succession were elevated to president, they would get to nominate their own Vice Presidential choice, who would also have to approved by the Senate AND the House by simple majorities.

However, if it were an acting President, they wouldn't have the opportunity unless the president were to be formally removed from office by death, resignation or impeachment. When a president is declared incapacitated due to the 25th Amendment, they are not removed from office. They recieve their salary, perks and the full use of the White House (sans working areas). An incapacitated president is suspended from duties, not removed from office.

Also, a fun bit of trivia. A nominee for a vacancy in the office of Vice President of the United States is the ONLY presidential appointment that requires House approval. :-) Impress your friends!

[rwenos]

4. None of them are ELECTED

No one in the Cabinet is elected. No one.

That's why the Speaker and the President of the Senate come before the Cabinet in the succession.

[David in Canada]

19. Speaker and PPT

The Speaker of the United States House of Representatives is elected by his or her constituents in his or her congressional district. They represent approximately 1 in 400-500 Americans. (There are 435 House seats, plus the non-voting delegates and Puerto Rico's resident commissioner.)

The Speaker is OFFICIALLY elected by the House as a whole but in actually is chosen in caucus by his or her party colleagues. Any person can technically be elected Speaker albeit only sitting House members have been chosen in the past. In 1997, freshly retired former Congressman Robert Walker (R-PA) recieved a few protest votes from disgruntled Republicans as a protest vote against then-Speaker Newt Gingrich (R-GA). Usually, however, the majority party for Speaker is elected in a formal roll call which the opposition party votes for the House Minority Leader.

The President Pro Tempore of the United States Senator is the titular head of the Senate except when the Vice-President of the United States is in presence. He or she is elected by the constituents of the state they represent. Although any Senator can be chosen as President Pro Tempore, tradition dictates that the most senior member of the majority party gets the nod. Ergo, Ted Stevens is the senior Republican senator, serving as Alaska's senator since December 24, 1968. If the Democrats get the majority, Senator Robert C. Byrd of West Virginia will get the nod, serving since January 3, 1959.

In most nations, the equivalent of House Speaker serves on an ad interim basis pending fresh elections. Once a new president has been elected, he or she takes office with a fresh mandate and the term clock (4 years or 5 years, etc.) starts anew.

In France, the President of the Senate becomes acting President pending fresh presidential elections. Alain Poher served as acting president of Franch in 1969 when Charles de Gaulle resigned and again in 1974 when Georges Pompidou died.

Hope I didn't bore you too much! ;-)

[SheilaT]

5. The actual order of succession:

1. Vice President of the United States
2. Speaker of the House
3. President pro Tempore of the Senate

Secretaries of the president's Cabinet now fill out the balance of list of succession:

4. Secretary of State
5. Secretary of the Treasury
6. Secretary of Defense
7. Attorney General
8. Secretary of the Interior
9. Secretary of Agriculture
10. Secretary of Commerce
11. Secretary of Labor
12. Secretary of Health & Human Services
13. Secretary of Housing & Urban Development
14. Secretary of Transportation
15. Secretary of Energy
16. Secretary of Education
17. Secretary of Veterans’ Affairs
18. Secretary of Homeland Security

Perhaps the real interesting thing to all this is that there's no provision for a special election.

[serryjw]

8. NOT one person read my OP

n/t

[Laura PourMeADrink]

7. My post from this am. You have to get to #12

For a decent person....

This is a list of the current presidential line of succession, as specified by the Presidential Succession Act of 1947 (3 U.S.C. § 19).

Current president: George W. Bush
Lying about WMD and illegally invading Iraq, Condoning Torture, Condoning Leaking Classified Information, Illegal Spying on US citizens, etc. etc.

1. Dick Cheney, Vice President
Lying about WMD and illegally invading Iraq, Condoning Torture, Condoning Leaking Classified Information, Illegal Spying on US citizens, etc. etc.

2. Dennis Hastert, Speaker of the House of Representatives
In August 2005, an article published in Vanity Fair reported that FBI translator turned whistleblower Sibel Edmonds has sworn under oath that she listened to wiretaps in which Turkish nationals boasted that Hastert had accepted bribes.<4> A Hastert spokesperson has denied any knowledge of these events even though an NSA investigation is underway.
In September 2004, billionaire currency trader George Soros filed an official complaint with the House Committee on Standards of Official Conduct charging Hastert had said on radio and television that Soros received drug money. <5>
Hastert generated controversy on 1 September 2005 when he said spending Federal money to rebuild New Orleans from the devastation of Hurricane Katrina "doesn't make sense to me."<6>. Hastert went on to say that "It looks like a lot of that place could be bulldozed"<7>.

3. Ted Stevens, President pro tempore of the Senate
http://www.counterpunch.org/stclair01272006.html
Senator Ted Stevens' Empire of Corruption
King of the Hill
By JEFFREY ST. CLAIR
Ted Stevens doesn't exploit loopholes, he drills them.
From his aerie in the US senate, the Alaska Republican exerts his power over vast terrains of legislation and budgeting, from the logging of the Tongass National Forest to the development of the Star Wars missile defense scheme.

4. Condoleezza Rice, Secretary of State
Lying about WBD, Failure to protect US from 9-11 attack

5. John W. Snow, Secretary of the Treasury
tlaw.com/washington.jsp?WebID=GL2002-0391
Likely quitting, could this be one reason?:
Sec. Snow Waffles on Estate Tax Repeal
Treasury Secretary John Snow spoke to two different groups this week. On March 28, 2006, he suggested that the White House may be willing to consider a compromise on estate tax repeal. At the Tax Executives Institute on that date, he stated, "I would hope that we'd have the chance to test the political strength of that idea and hopefully prevail, but if not, come to some second-best outcome that would also be more advantageous than where we are today."

However, by March 30, 2006, Sec. Snow was back pedaling furiously. Speaking to the Edison Electric Institute Board of Directors on that date, he held a different opinion. Sec. Snow noted, "I want to make it clear that Congress needs to pass legislation that permanently repeals the death tax, without compromise."

6. Donald H. Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense
Lying about WMD, Condoning torture, Totally failure on planning after the US invasion

7. Alberto Gonzales, Attorney General
Condoning torture. spying on americans

8. Gale Norton, Secretary of the Interior
Resigned
Council of Republicans for Environmental Advocacy (CREA) was founded by Interior Secretary Gale Norton and Grover Norquist in the 1990's. Jack Abramoff directed his tribal casinos to donate $225,000 to CREA. <1>
In a February 2002 letter to Secretary of the Interior Gale Norton, John Doolittle complained that a Lousiana tribal casino had been wrongly shut down because the Bureau of Indian Affairs refused to recognize a newly elected tribal council. The subsequent new council hired Abramoff's firm after the elections. In June 2003, Doolittle wrote a letter to Norton criticizing the Bush administration's response to a tribal government dispute in Iowa. In October 2003, Doolittle appealed in a letter to Norton for quicker action for a Massachusetts tribe that was seeking federal recognition. Both the Iowa and Massachusetts tribes hired Jack Abramoff's lobbying firm, Greenberg Traurig, in that year. <2> There is a 2002 photograph of Norton with Jack Abramoff. <3>

9. Mike Johanns, Secretary of Agriculture
http://www.religioustolerance.org/burn_aw1.htm
Mike Johanns recieves religious intolerance award
ineligible: Carlos Gutierrez, Secretary of Commerce (not a natural-born citizen of the U.S.)
ineligible: Elaine Chao, Secretary of Labor (not a natural-born citizen of the U.S.)

10. Michael Leavitt, Secretary of Health and Human Services
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=03/08/12/151...
In Utah, Leavitt came under criticism for opening the state’s wildlands to polluting industries and opening millions of acres of wilderness to roadbuilding and development. He also backed a massive highway project that would have destroyed wetlands and fertile farmlands along the Great Salt Lake.

11. Alphonso Jackson, Secretary of Housing and Urban Development
Quote: The Bush administration is the most diverse in history because the president fills jobs on the basis of a person's capabilities and qualifications, not on the color of his or her skin.
Enough said…

12. Norman Mineta, Secretary of Transportation
http://www.michellemalkin.com/archives/000973.htm
Here's our best choice - Michelle Malkin wants him impeached
Impeach Mineta. The man who said this...
Kroft: Are you saying, at security screening desks, that a 70-year-old white woman from Vero Beach, Florida, would receive the same level of scrutiny as a-a-a Muslim young man from Jersey City?
Mineta: Basically, I would hope so.
...is staying in the Bush administration

13. Samuel W. Bodman, Secretary of Energy

14. Margaret Spellings, Secretary of Education

15. Jim Nicholson, Secretary of Veterans Affairs

[BattyDem]

9. I say Prez, VP and then ...

Al Gore! :evilgrin:


Seriously, I believe the rules are outdated. They were written long before modern communication. If we lost the Prez and the VP in those days, it would take forever to get the entire country organized and informed enough to hold a special election and of course, they needed an immediate solution.

However, we have television, radio and the internet and we could certainly organize an election in a short period of time. I know the Constitution specifically says that the Prez and the VP are "elected to four-year terms in even-number years evenly divisible by 4" - but I think it should be amended to accommodate a situation where we have no leader.

If we lose the Prez and the VP, the current line of succession should kick in TEMPORARILY - only until we can get an election together, maybe 60-90 days. No judicial appointments should be allowed during that period of time and laws should only be signed if they are absolutely necessary to keep the country running (for example: if there was an emergency or some sort of national crisis). When the new President is elected, he/she should have the right to review those laws and decide if they will remain. All broadcast networks should be required to give equal amounts of free air time to each of the candidates so that the public can get to know them. (I think that should be a law anyway - with or without a special election. After all, the airwaves DO belong to the people!)

I don't like the current method because, as you said, the Speaker and the President pro Tempore are only elected by a small number of people, not the entire country. But ... what REALLY makes me mad is the idea that a cabinet member could end up as President because they weren't elected by anyone!

[serryjw]

10. Thanks for responding

Funny..You're idea DID exist 160 years ago

quote.......
One interesting note about the 25th amendment: It finally codified the tradition started by President John Tyler. In 1840, President William Harrison became the first president to die in office. Tyler was his Vice President and assumed the Presidency. However, Article II of the Constitution says only that the duties of a deceased President fall to the Vice President. It does not say that the Vice President becomes President. Some people in 1840 felt Tyler should be "Acting President" or some other position less than "full" President. Tyler disagreed, and governed as President in all respects. This became a tradition followed by the other 7 Vice Presidents who succeeded to the Presidency over the next 125 years. It was not until 1967 that tradition became law in section 1 of the 25th amendment

HISTORY of line of succesion
http://www.doctorzebra.com/prez/a_succession.htm

[BattyDem]

12. Thanks for the link.

:hi:

That's very interesting - I wasn't aware of any of that. To be honest, I never really thought about how it all came to be, LOL!

So basically, we're stuck with a bad system because John Tyler was power-hungry! :eyes:


On edit: What makes me mad is that these rules weren't codified before modern communication - it was 1967! There's no excuse for not adding a provision for a special election! They changed the rules based on a "tradition" that started because of John Tyler's ego. :grr:

[serryjw]

14. Yeah but in reality it will never happen

When the GOP power players decided it was time for Nixon to go they had Ford backstage waiting. UNLESS it really was a national disaster( attack) they would have it taken care of so we wouldn't skip a beat. Tom Delay stepped down so he can insure (??) his seat would go to a GOP vs TRYING to hold to it. The stakes are too high now and neither party would not have a PLAN B

[BattyDem]

15. I know ... but I still don't think the system makes sense

There's no reason why we couldn't have a special election in this day and age. But ... the power-hungry politicians in DC would never let that happen. :eyes:

On edit: You've inspired me to learn more about this ... so thanks! :toast:

Anyway, I found this page which proves that this has always been an area where the Congress hasn't had its act together. They really didn't know what to do about it. :shrug:


"In 1791, a House committee recommended that this duty fall to the cabinet's senior member—the Secretary of State ... Others proposed the Senate's president pro tempore, reasoning that as this official succeeded the vice president in presiding over the Senate, he should also succeed the vice president in performing the duties of the presidency ... Others suggested the Chief Justice of the United States or the Speaker of the House of Representatives."

"Early in the Second Congress, on February 20, 1792, the Senate joined the House in passing the Presidential Succession Act—a compromise measure that placed in the line of succession its president pro tempore, followed by the House Speaker."

"Years later, in 1886, Congress responded to longstanding uneasiness with this arrangement by removing its two officers from the line of succession and substituting the president's cabinet members, by rank, beginning with the Secretary of State. This troublesome issue received yet another revision in 1947, when Congress inserted the Speaker of the House and Senate president pro tempore, in that order, ahead of the president's cabinet. "

http://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/minute/Presidential_Succession.htm

:crazy:

[serryjw]

17. .and the beat gone on........

We are about to amend it again

quote.......
Tomorrow --- H.R. 1943 and S.920
These bills were introduced in the 109th Congress. Their provisions include adding the following positions to the end of the current line-of-succession:
Secretary of Homeland Security,
Ambassador to the United Nations,
Ambassador to Great Britain,
Ambassador to Russia,
Ambassador to China, and
Ambassador to France.
end quote......
http://www.doctorzebra.com/prez/a_succession.htm

[TomInTib]

11. I pick me...I have only one chin and am not beholden to anybody.

...not even my parents. (They vote for the dark side and don't send me any money)

[Stinky The Clown]

16. I'd like to see a special election by Congress for a temporary leader

Kind of like the way Popes are chosen. Brick 'em up at the Capitol and let them elect a leader. Any person who meets the minimum qualifications to be President is eligible. Whoever they select would serve only until a special national election is held ... say in 60 days. 90 days, whatever is reasonable.

[David in Canada]

20. I prefer the French system

President of the Senate (equivalent of our President Pro Tempore) becomes acting President until new elections held. Winner takes office and the term clock starts fresh, i.e. the new president serves a four year term upon taking the oath of office.