The one thing I've never heard a Democrat politician say

[TheCowsCameHome]

When asked or challenged by a RW shill/talk host/reporter about their (The Dems) plan for what to do about Iraq mess, I have yet to hear a Democrat politician say right up front "In the first place let me make it clear that I/we would never have made the unforgivable mistake of invading Iraq in the first place. George Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and no one else chose this course of action. We are in it thanks to them. Now, as to how we get out of the mess they created , I would........" and then go one to answer the question.

Democrat politicians should remind their interviewers and the American public that BUSH started this thing in the first place.

[Olney Blue]

1. "Brand W Republican" and "Bush's War" are two good suggestions

made this weekend. Whenever the Repugs are interviewed they
NEVER FAIL to ATTACK Dems.

[serryjw]

2. The question that has NOT been discussed

is changing a US policy about NO pre-emptive first strike..That has been ignored in all the discussions of Bushit & Co fabricating the reason for the invasion. We have plenty of verified evidence of USSR & China having WMD and we NEVER did a pre-emptive strike...even AFTER the Cuban Missile Crisis.

[depakid]

3. Could have sworn I hear Howard Dean

Make statements just like that....

[TheCowsCameHome]

6. If Dean has said that, they should all follow his lead

and throw it out every single time that BUSH AND HIS IMCOMPETENT ADMINISTRATION ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS MESS.

[Jai4WKC08]

8. Yep, I've heard Clark say it too. n/t

[blm]

38. Dean and others ALL said none of the Democrats would've started a war

knowing that weapons inspections were working to prove military action was not necessary. I will add that I don't even think Lieberman would have rushed invasion knowing that weapons inspectors were not finding anything.

I was glad when I first heard Dean, Kerry and others say it, and wished that media made a greater point out of their words, instead of always framing it using Rove talking points.

[TheFarseer]

52. that's a good line IMO n/t

[OKNancy]

4. Wes Clark said it many times

still does as far as I know

"I would not have gone into Iraq in the first place," he said. "My position was that Iraq was not an imminent threat. I would have concentrated on Osama bin Laden."

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/president/clark/articles/2004/02/11/clark_exits_presidential_bid_after_losses/

Also said it in the debates
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/politics/july-dec03/debate_10-10.html

Council of Foreign Relations speech
http://www.cfr.org/publication/9845/iraq.html

[babylonsister]

15. But now Clark thinks we should stay there, doesn't he?

I don't agree there.

[FrenchieCat]

19. No, Clark doesn't think that we should stay there.....

He agrees that 2006 is the year of transition and that troops should be out of there as soon as possible.....as long as we don't leave an Iran Theocratic State upon our exit fighting not only a civil war but a regional war as well.....because he understands that two wrongs don't make a right....and that stuffing the top back on the Genie's bottle without the Genie inside is for naught. Pandora's box is what this Middle East Quagmire has been called for a reason.

Clark also believes that we should use our military as leverage to force negotiations by the Iraqis to form a government which includes the minorities and centralizes the oil revenues....although he didn't set a date like John Kerry....cause he knows that it means nothing for him to set a date that ends up passing by.....since it is the Bush admin that is running the show (whether we like it or not)....but he has pushed for the Bush admin to threatened deployment and the slow down of training and equipment if the Iraqi Leaders don't get their act together.

He also has urged that the U.S. foreswear any permanent bases in the region.

Edit to add that Wes Clark just about always prefaces any discussion of Iraq by saying...."A war we didn't have to fight"...."a Strategic Blunder"....."A War of Choice".....etc, etc.

[babylonsister]

20. Thanks for clarifying, FrenchieCat, though I don't know how that

will be possible in the midst of a civil war.
The Iraqis should have had the negotiations down pat by now, but don't seem to be able to come
to any kind of an agreement. If we wait for them, we could be there for years, and that thought is intolerable.

[FrenchieCat]

22. I don't think so.....

because part of having leverage in negotiating is that, at some point the leverage of pulling troops out has to be used if nothing happens.

If you think that this Iraqi Government, frail as it is, wants to be left without the U.S. Military protecting it.....that is incorrect....which is why John Kerry set the date of May 15th...because he too understands that the Iraqi Leaders don't want to be left without protection.

I think that Clark and Kerry's only difference in approach is that Clark feels that him setting a date won't make it an official Bush admin date.....and therefore won't influence the Iraqis to deal with that date....therefore setting up a prescribed plan for failure if the date were to come and go (which the Bush admin would make certain it does for their own reasons)....when it wasn't required.

[NanceGreggs]

5. AGREED!

And I think the Dems should preface EVERY QUESTION about their plans to get the country back on-track with a finger-point at this Administration, to whit:

What would you do about the economy? Answer: "First of all, I WOULDN'T DO what the Republicans have done ....," followed by their plan.

What would you do about making FEMA more effective? Answer: "First of all, I WOULDN'T DO what the Republicans did ...," followed by their ideas on making FEMA more responsive.

DO THIS WITH EVERYTHING! POINT THE FINGER! REMIND THE PUBLIC THAT ALL OF THESE DISASTROUS MOVES have been the brainchild of Republicans, NOT Democrats.

The Repubs are constantly saying the Dems have no ideas of their own, all they can do is nay-say everything the GOP does, or will do in future.

TURN THAT MESSAGE AROUND ON THE GOP! "Of course we've nay-said everything they've come up with. Who wouldn't? These people are incompetent fools, and the American people are suffering as a consequence of THEIR actions, not OURS."

(Sorry - didn't mean for that to turn into a rant. But this 'no message, all they can do is nay-say us crap really sticks in my craw!)

[TheCowsCameHome]

7. Good rant! - I'm with you 110% - It needs to be said EVERY time.

[NanceGreggs]

12. Always meant to tell you, LastLaughIn08 ...

... that EVERY TIME I see your on-line name, it makes me SMILE!

It reminds me that better days are ahead - and not only will WE have big smiles on our faces when the next Democratic president in sworn-in, so will our fellow Americans, regardless of party affiliation!

[TheCowsCameHome]

13. Nothing would make me happier................

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

9. Well, most of them can't since they voted to allow

it.

It seems to me anyway.

[sandnsea]

27. Odd statement, since almost all of them have

So, like the OP, you're either uninformed or intentionally lying. And like the OP, I'll leave it to you to say which it is.

[cali]

34. It may seem that way but it's not true

More dems in the House voted against it than for it. Slightly less than half of the dem Senators voted against it. (22 + Jeffords).

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

42. yes, I see that is true

I was expressing anger at my perception.

[wryter2000]

10. If you're going to use the D word as an adjective...

If you're going to use the D word as an adjective, it would be better to add the "ic" to it. Democratic. Repugs use Democrat as an adjective as an insult. Pombo did it on TV on Friday night. "Democrat politician" with a sneer. He made it sound gawd awful.

Not a criticism. Just a suggestion. :)

[OzarkDem]

11. Correction: Democratic

Just a reminder, Republicans usually refer them as "Democrat"...

Just thought you might want to know.

[BattyDem]

14. I believe both Dean and Clark have said it before

As a matter of fact, Dean said it last week on one of the news shows (I think it was Blitzer). I'm not sure of his exact words, but he basically said, "Let me start by saying that I never supported the invasion of Iraq; I thought it was wrong. But now that we're there, we must do what we can ... yada, yada, yada."

On edit: Gore criticized Bush's Iraq policy both before and after the war started.

[babylonsister]

16. Too bad those in a position to vote were lied to and

given false information, as were we all.

[Stinky The Clown]

17. "Democrat Politician"?

That term makes me tune out .......

[blondeatlast]

18. Democrat-IC. It's an adjective.

Even though I'm not traditionally a grammar corrector, I used to teach English in high school, and this particular grammatical error makes me batpoop crazy.

Please use it correctly. I know I'm not the only DUer who feels this way by far.

Democrat is a noun; as in: I, blondeatlast, am a Democrat.

Democratic is an adjective; as in: I support Democratic politicians.

Thanks.

Sorry for the grammar lesson, but this really gets to many DUers, not just me, I know.

Edit: I notice you used the term "Republican" correctly in your profile, so this simple change shouldn't be asking too much of you.

[TheCowsCameHome]

21. OK, you guys win. My point totally was lost by grammatical errors.

But the fact remains our party needs to remind the world that BUSH planned and started this whole Iraq mess, and I'll stick to that belief until I die, grammatical errors or not.

The Middle East (or worse) could go up in smoke any day now, thanks to GWB and his band of incompetent fools, but by gosh I'll know proper adjective use when the big cloud comes............................

[FrenchieCat]

23. I think that you are right....that our nation needs to be reminded

every damn day that this was Bush's war.

They also need to be reminded of This:

"The Greatest threat to American people - what they really have to worry about is the threat to liberty and Democracy right here in America. They (the Bush Admin) thrive on scaring the American people."
--Wes Clark in his 3/27/06 podcast
http://feeds.feedburner.com/clarkcast.mp3?d=2

[cspanlovr]

24. Why are you saying "Democrat" instead of "Democratic", please

don't use "their" terminology for us. Thanks!

[TheCowsCameHome]

25. Let's just forget it, I'm sorry I posted in the first place.

I'll check in Nov. 8th to see if we made any headway. See you all then.

[yellowcanine]

35. You got caught is what happened. Only Republicans use "Democrat" as

an adjective and they do it deliberately. Or at least some of them do and others do also as they quote the talking points. It is not just a grammatical mistake as you are trying to say. This has been noted many times here on DU so the fact that you didn't know that pretty much establishes your Republican troll status.

[TheCowsCameHome]

43. Caught? Like hell I was. Grammatical error as I said, yes.

I love the way some (thankfully very, very few) DUers think they know everything there is to know about other DU members. I rather be than dead than vote for a Republican, especially after what they've done in recent years. I haven't voted for a Republican since 1962 when I first registered to vote. I've been a member of organized labor since 1960 and know how the right wing dumps on the working guy. Don't ever accuse me of being a Republican troll.

Maybe you should cut fellow DU members some slack now and then when they admit to having made a grammatical mistake.............

[sandnsea]

26. Almost all of them have said it

Kerry, Edwards, Harkin, Murtha, the list goes on. Either you're uninformed or intentionally lying. I'll leave you to say which it is.

[TheCowsCameHome]

30. Well if they are saying it, it isn't often and loud enough.

And don't be calling me a liar, sport.

Your kind doesn't exactly inspire newcomers to the party.

[sandnsea]

39. So obvious

It's getting to be comical. Challenge somebody's bullshit and it's either "freedom of speech" or "newcomers to the party". I didn't call you a liar, I said that was your call to make. I guess you're choosing intentionally uninformed.

[TheCowsCameHome]

44. Maybe someday I can claim to know it all, as you do - meantime, chill out

and work get these RW bums out in '06 and '08, before there's no America left to fix.

[sandnsea]

46. Argument of last resort, "chill out" lol n/t

[JerseygirlCT]

28. DemocratIC politician

Don't fall into the GOP's stupid linquistic trap.

Democratic is the adjective, not Democrat.

[Totally Committed]

36. Exactly....

DemocratIC!!!!

Don't let the other side "frame" even our Party's name!

TC

[0007]

29. .....and you won't.

[zanne]

31. The Republican counterattack is;

"Look at the mess we made. Democrats have no plans to get us out of it".

[TayTay]

32. Actually this has been said across the board by many Dems

many, many times. It would be shorter to list the number of Dems who said that they would invade, knowing what they know now. (Maybe Lieberman?)

[Minnesota Libra]

33. That's because of how the neocon/fundies frame the question...............

...it's never "what would you have done differently in the beginning". It's always "now that we are there" what would you do differently". So get the press to ask the right question for once.

[AlGore-08.com]

37. Actually, Gore has said many times he would have never invaded Iraq

I just sayin'...

[ClarkBayh 2008]

41. Dems should never ever answer hypothetical questions

Our handlers suck.
The post is totally irrelevant at this point.
Totally.

This is 2006.
Let's move on if we want to actually win an electoral majority.

[TankLV]

48. Umm - sure - just because you said so! And all since late February!

Hmmmmm...

Another low poster newbie comming out to tell US what WE should do - just like ignoring the swiftboaters and bush*s past history!

Hmmmm...

[McCamy Taylor]

40. Could say "First thing to do is admit that Bush made a terrible mistake

in choosing to go to war with Iraq, and that he made an even graver mistake when he chose to mislead Congress and the American people about his reasons for invading Iraq. It is this deception at the war's initiation that is responsible for the American public's current disillusionment with the conflict. Only by addressing the issue of lies about weapons of mass distruction in an open, frank debate can we regain the trust of the American people. And without the will of the American people behind us, no solution will ever be found to this conflict."


How does this sound for a Democratic message?

[Doctor_J]

45. Democrat politician? Is that you Rush?

:eyes:

[PaDem]

47. While it's been said................

you've hit on a critical point. Dems have been debating the Iraq War on the merits of strategy and committment. Rare is the Democrat in congress who turns the debate towards the decision to go into Iraq in the first place (partly the result of all the yeah votes from Dems). It can't be stated enough how devestating the Democrat capitulation on the decision to go to war has been. Debating war strategy is worthless and futile.

[JNelson6563]

49. It's Democrat-IC, thanks

I wish DUers would not use the right wing's shortened version.

[TheCowsCameHome]

54. I wasn't aware of a RW "shortened version", but some don't believe that

I hope their anger gets channeled to the ballot box in November, where it will do some good.

And let's stop letting the RW define the liberal cause. That's what the SwiftLiars
did to Kerry '04 and look what happened to him.

[lwcon]

50. Suggested talking points for Dems who voted for the war

http://vastleft.blogspot.com/2006/03/ok-dems-who-authorized-iraqi-war.html
___

Hey, the liberal light is always on at the Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy. Please stop by and say "hi!"

[LWolf]

51. You're listening to the wrong Democrats.

They don't say it, because it isn't true. They supported the Bush administration's war game.

Look for those that didn't vote for the IWR, then see what they had to say publicly. If you can find an archived transcript. They usually aren't media darlings, and what they have to say often goes unnoticed or unappreciated.

They are out there, if you spend enough time uncovering them.

[galatea]

53. hmmmmm

that would take courage and honesty, I think?

Calling Bush a war criminal is the last thing they want. It will upset the Red State scum.

[TheCowsCameHome]

55. The Red State scum deserves to get upset - or worse.