Agree or disagree?

[nickshepDEM]

Which of the following statements on immigration do you agree with?

1.) We shouldn't offer government services to non-citizens or non-tax payers.

2.) English needs to be our national language, with decent proficiency required for citizenship.

3.) There needs to be a special immigration tax. We should have some kind of worker amnesty program, simply to make sure that there are decent labor standards for employers of these people. However, workers who earn money here in the U.S., but have residence in Mexico must pay an extra tax.

[BrklynLiberal]

1. I think if Bush bombs Iran we are all doomed.

[Iris]

2. Regarding #1, maybe we'd like other countries to do the same?

So if someone is on vacation in, say, Spain, and has an accident -well, too bad.

Also, will we treat tourists from other countries this way as well? They're not citizens.

[Maine-ah]

7. I don't think that is what the OP meant.

But let's ask to clarify #1.

I think they mean welfare type programs, in which case I agree. I am a natural citizen, with no health insurance, and I go over by 200 bucks a month for any assistance. BTW, I'm pregnant too. I'm screwed financially. They should not be ahead of people who are natural citizens who need help.

[Iris]

12. but they are not ahead of you because they are immigrants

they are ahead of you because they make $200 less per month.

While I agree your plight is horrible, I don't think passing laws denying medical care to immigrants is going to improve your situation. That's the problem with this issue. The Republicans are using a group of people as scapegoats to cover up the fact that they've (the Republicans, that is) been screwing this country for quite some time now.

[Redstone]

3. # 1 is a loaded question, therefore invalid.

How about people who think that non-citizens who DO pay taxes should have Government services available to them?

Your question doesn't allow for that.

Redstone

[Iris]

4. Regarding #2, that'd be bad for our President, now, wouldn't it?

Could we make this retroactive? Make people who were born in the US take a English proficiency test? I bet a lot of folks would fail it.

[Quakerfriend]

5. Agree with all 3.

And, I am outraged that they are out in the streets demanding amnesty!

If big business was required to actually follow the laws in place this would not be happening at all.

[Redstone]

15. I doubt that you are really a Quaker. A genuine "friend" would never

be so intolerant.

Redstone

[Redstone]

6. #3 is bullshit, too. My wife has been here for over 30 years, and has

paid the same taxes as US citizens do for all that time. Why should she be taxed MORE, just because She's not a US citizen?

Does she cost US citizens anything by her presence, that she should have to pay extra for? No, she does not. She's a productive, taxpaying member of our society, and for anyone to think that she should pay extra for the privilege of being so, is fucking stupid.

Redstone

[Iris]

13. I swear, people just make this shit up as they go.

Not you, Redstone! But this crap about people not paying taxes - where do people come up with this shit? Of course your wife should not "pay extra tax" - that's just ridiculous.

[Redstone]

14. They don't make it up as they go; they hear it from rightwing radio

broadcasts in the morning, then spout it all day long as if it were their own idea.

That's just the way people who are not capable of originial ideas live their lives.

Redstone

[Iris]

17. you're right.

About 10 years ago, my mom started coming up with this crap about immigrants getting "special loans" from the government to start businesses. She doesn't listen to rw radio, but at the time was working around a lot of people who did (still do, I'm sure). They spouted it like it was common knowledge, and she accepted it as such, which is disturbing b/c she's an intelligent woman.

[ChiciB1]

8. Agree With Number Two, But You Forgot One Other Question...

the TAX needs to be extended to CORPORATIONS who knowingly hire illegals! At least I THINK you excluded it, I do agree somewhat with taxing those who want to enter & THEN become citizens.

I must admit that I don't like The Idiot's statement that illegals are willing to work when Americans here won't. All one needs to do is take a look at Katrina aftermath, rents have skyrocketed in many very low-income places and STILL they aren't paying decent wages! Even the state rejected a $1.00 hike of the minimum wage, that's pretty telling.

It seems that the powers that be really DO want many to stay away and not return to THEIR homes!

Why can't we address THIS problem? And I also wonder why Hillary & Kennedy and the Congress persons have decided they would make speeches today when they were quite absent when WE marched against the war!

[wyldwolf]

9. Agree

[Iris]

18. so now people who are citizens but don't pay taxes just die when they get

sick? Nice way to live.

[Warpy]

10. #1 is unchristian. This is supposedly a rich country. We can help these

folks out when they get sick. We can allow their kids to get an education. We can fund it by the fines from my #3.

#2 is inhumane. Think of the grandparents of legal immigrants elderly and forgetful, not particularly able to learn a difficult language like English. Unless you like keeping families apart, this one's a loser.

#3 is silly. What we need is to FINE THE FUCK out of sleazebag employers who hire these people at starvation wages, exploit the hell out of them and thumb their noses at the rest of us.

You're still focusing on Mexicans instead of on the real problem, SCUMBALL EMPLOYERS. Let's put the focus where it truly belongs, shall we?

[demigoddess]

11. none is anything I could support

this is just republicans trying to institutionalize their xenophobia. let things stay as they are. the only thing that will help the'immigrant problem' is better opportunities in Mexico and south america. And to do that we have to stop insisting on keeping socialists out of power in the world.

[Mass]

16. #1 is stupid - poor US citizens would not get any aid?

Poor people of any type would not get any aid? people who are here legally would not get any help and services. What do you do of their kids. What if they are sick? (aside from the immorality of the proposition in general - What are we: savage egoists?)

#2 is pure demagogery. Who cares what language they speak, as long as they are good citizens.

#3 does not relate to immigrants. It relates to people who work on one side of the border and live on the other side. They may come legally or illegally. By definition, they are not immigrants, if they do not reside in this country. BTW, can the other countries do the same thing with US citizens working abroad and who are generally highly paid?

Your post shows how the debate is biased. You say you are talking about illegal immigrants and your posts actually relate to all immigrants. It is pure xenophobia.

[nickshepDEM]

19. Completely false.

[Iris]

23. good answer.

:sarcasm:


Can you explain what is completely false about the post you responded to or are you comfortable using the Republican way of arguing?

[Minnesota Libra]

20. Actually I would agree with......................

....all three. I hadn't thought about this approach but it would be an improvement over what we have in place now.

One question though - and I mean this in hopes of open and honest discussion. How would we enforce #3 with so many illegal aliens to deal with?? Keep in mind I'm NOT narrowing this down to illegal aliens from any one country but rather ALL illegal aliens from ALL countries. There are indeed illegal aliens from Mexico but then are also illegal aliens from China, and just about every other country on the earth. So how would we enforce this.

You might be on to something here if you could explain #3 a little more.

[Iris]

24. see Redstone's post up above

[LWolf]

21. Disagree with all.

1. Non-tax payers? Like minors, the unemployed, stay-at-home parents? Or those who work "under the table" because the local union won't admit them?

2. Americans need to be multi-lingual. All Americans. As far as I know, English is already our "national language," but it would serve us well to know how to speak to the rest of the world. Requiring english for citizenship? Probably, as long as the primary language isn't discouraged in any way, so that the focus is on being bi- or multi-lingual, not english as the only language.

3. How do you tax undocumented workers if they are undocumented? Don't you need some sort of documentation to be able to levy the tax? I don't see that this prevents growing a population of "shadow people" working underneath/outside the system. When employers cannot find a cheap labor pool to exploit, there will no longer be a reason to cross borders illegally.

How about this statement instead:

The immigration issue will be resolved when we address labor issues on a global basis.

[TheFarseer]

22. Agree

And penalize employers that hire illegal aliens more than we are now. We've got to cut this off at the knees, then move on to outsourcing.