I Need a Good Article on Specter's Magic Bullet Theory

[orleans]

regarding the kennedy assassination. when i google i get a ton of websites but can't find "articles".

any suggestions? or help?

thanks.

[duupertrooper]

1. Here's Wiki to start with...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_bullet_theory

[duupertrooper]

2. Here's first 4...

http://www.geocities.com/justicewell/specter.htm


http://www.post-gazette.com/localnews/20031116jfk1116p3.asp


http://www.jfklancer.com/SBT.html


http://ourworld.cs.com/mikegriffith1/id65.htm


I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THEY CONTAIN--THEY JUST FIRST 4 ON LIST...

[Kurt Remarque]

3. single bullet

there are tons are sites on the jfk assassination. i'm a big fan of conspiracy theories but if you review the actual evidence from the warren commission and take a look at the newer computer simulations, you will soon push the conspiracies (at least the one that oswald didn't do it) aside. the bullet did not change directions in mid air (as protrayed in "jfk") and an entrabce wound from the rear exiting through the front is painfully evident.

[sce56]

4. But it is impossible for that bullet to do all of that damage and not show

a scratch! Damage as in hitting both JFK & Connelly then showing up in pristine condition on a stretcher in Parkland Memorial!

Look at the photo from the FBI showing only two Cartridges and one unfired round recovered from the sixth floor!

[sce56]

5. Oh yeah the web site these photos came from

http://www.jfkmurdersolved.com/gallery.htm

[jobycom]

7. The bullet was hardly pristine. Here's a better angle.

From the bottom end.



"The main aspect of the Kennedy assassination that would surprise most people is how uncontroversial the wound ballistics aspects are among the physicians in the country who are most experienced in gunshot trauma (I am not one of these, but have talked to several). It is a sad truth that most autopsy reports are full of errors and inconsistencies which are obvious to any careful review; it shouldn't be like this, but it is. The problems with the Kennedy autopsy do not require a conspiracy to explain, they are more or less business as usual exposed to the glare of careful examination. Likewise, the work of Lattimer and Fackler is simply a very sound, complete, and careful examination and reconstruction of that facts that should be the standard in all cases, but isn't.

snip

"Bullet 399 really isn't deformed much; a point often made by those who dispute the "single bullet" conclusion. The bullets used in this assassination are much more resistant to deformation than most rifle bullets. The major effect in bullet 399 is "toothpasting", i.e., a small amount of the lead core has been squeezed out of the jacket base like toothpaste from a tube. This probably occurred when the bullet hit Connally's ribs at a high yaw angle after it had been considerably slowed by travel through soft tissue (a bullet in a reconstructed firing showed deformation similar to and slightly larger than bullet 399). The bullet would yaw in water, but probably would not "toothpaste" without contact with a hard object.

"Reconstructions prove that bullet 399 is consistent with having caused all these wounds. G: Have you had a chance to review the JFK-related wound ballistics work of Drs. John Lattimer and Martin Fackler? If so, can you provide a brief critique?"

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/macpher.htm

[rman]

13. That's nowhere near the amount of deformation

to be expected after causing 6 wounds, damaging/pulverizing several bones. Much more then just "toothpasting", the jacket of the bullet would show severe deformation.
Also no-one can fire 3 shots in 6 seconds with a bolt-action rifle.

[jobycom]

16. Not true--it's EXACTLY the amount one would expect from a bullet

fired from a distance through several layers of flesh and muscle before finally striking bone. Anyone who grew up around guns (Don't say you did, you just proved you didn't) can tell you that, and many, many recreations have proven that by firing bullets into cadavers and animals just to prove it.

Here's a comparison of one such test, showing both bullets.


As for no one being able to fire a bolt rifle that fast, horseshit. The three FBI agents who tested Oswald's rifle were ALL able to fire it three times accurately in six seconds after one round (and that's not even mentioning that the current estimates are that there were eight seconds between first and last shot). One of them fired it accurately three times (Oswald only hit the target twice) from further away in under five seconds, without any practice with the rifle. Oswald had a clear, easy shot and plenty of practice with the rifle. Contrary to popular rumors, he was a marksman trained and accredited with the highest marks by the Marine Corp (he failed one marksman test, and that is the source of the rumor that he couldn't shoot. Conspiracists overlook the fact that on another test he scored the highest marks, and on several tests in between he scored high marks. And it was an easy shot, even without a scope.)

My favorite conspiracy video clip is of Josiah Thompson showing that no one could even cycle the bolt of the rifle as fast as it would require. While he's narrating it, he cycles the bolt to illustrate his point, and cycles it much faster than he claims Oswald would have had to.

I can start to believe some conspiracy stories on JFK and Oswald, but when I start hearing people spout out the "magic pristine bullet" and "no one can shoot that fast" stuff I tune them out. They know too little of guns and nothing of the evidence.

[rman]

17. Interesting how you focus on the back end of the bullet,

what about the tip? Again - having caused 6 wounds, shattering 2 bones.

Several FBI sharp shooters failed to fire 3 times in 6 seconds with the same type of bolt action rifle. That's not a secret, it's part of the official investigation.
Accuracy goes out the window completely for the 2nd and 3rd shot even just trying to fire as fast as possible. While the official story has it that the 1st shot missed and the 3rd shot was the head shot.

[NickB79]

24. You must understand the type of bullet used

This was a 6.5mm bullet, roundnosed, long and heavy for it's caliber. It used a thick copper jacket, which would have prevented any fragmentation of the bullet. These are the kinds of bullets popular with African big-game hunters of the 19th and early 20th century: they are long and strong, designed to penetrate deeply to reach the vitals of African game. These smaller calibers were actually preferred when ivory was still legally hunted specifically for this reason. Hunters used to shoot the elephants in the skull with 6.5mm bullets, knowing that the bullets could penetrate the thick bone intact and destroy the brain. Thus, the animal dropped with one shot before charging.

That this particular bullet could remain relatively undamaged after passing through a several humans (and hitting little bone along the way) is not hard to believe.

People can debate the rest of the story, but the bullet itself should not be in dispute.

[maine_raptor]

26. Then how do you explain fragments of a 6.5 mm bullet found in the car

when it was examined by the Secret Service later that day? WC said these were from the head shot and showed X-rays of JFK's head with fragments still inside.

[NickB79]

32. They found bullet fragments?

I did not know that.

[rman]

27. 2 bones were shatered;

a rib and a wrist bone.
The bullet is very much in dispute.

[NickB79]

33. These are relatively weak bones

As I said, these bullets are known to penetrate inches of elephant skull intact; penetrating a rib or wrist bone is not comparable.

[benburch]

29. I have fired the same sort of rifle.

At 100 yards I could hit the target three times in just over Oswald's time. With practice, I'm certain I could equal it.

[Josh]

30. Question -

I do recall one thing from the movie really puzzling me - why did Oswald wait until the limo was on the other street? With all the trees in his way, when if he had gone to the window on his left he could have hit several times from a front on angle while the motorcade was traveling along the straight road?

I never understood that. Stupidity?

[benburch]

31. I don't know.

But I have always imagined he was still deciding whether to do it or not.

When you are standing up there with a rifle, contemplating murder, I cannot imagine that your aren't a mass of doubts.

[jobycom]

6. For or against?

Here's a page with (mostly) supporting articles and evidence. Whether you believe in the single bullet theory or not (and me and my advanced history degree do), you'll find that when all the evidence, ballistics, science and autopsy results are fully analyzed, it's a lot less ridiculous than most of the opponents claim it is.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/sbt.htm

[sce56]

10. There is lots of evidence that we were sold a lie back in 64

This is a photograph of Lee Harvey Oswald taken shortly after his arrest. Note the clear similarity in both appearance and dress to the man in the schoolbook depository doorway in the Altgen's photo.

The Warren Commission "identified" the individual as Billy Lovelady, a fellow Book Depository employee. But while Lovelady identifed the person in the Altgens' photo as himself, he also stated that he'd worn a red and white vertically striped shirt on the day of the assassination The man in the doorway's shirt in not striped and is open in front, exposing the tee shirt underneath.

In color films taken from another angle, the color of the shirt worn by the man in the doorway was revealed to be orange-brown. When Oswald was arrested, he was wearing the identical shirt- an orange-brown tweed with missing buttons and tee-shirt underneath.

Other films taken on November 22, 1963 revealed that Lovelady was in fact wearing a red and blue plaid shirt.

Hence, the figure in the doorway is NOT Lovelady.

(Billy Lovelady died of a heart attack Jan 1979)

Mortal Error Version Of The Altgens Photo
Click for full size (44K) picture.
This is the Altgens photo as it appears in the book "Mortal Error". Note that the photo has been cropped to hide the fact that Vice President Johnson's Secret Service detail has already opened their car doors while Kennedy's Secret Service detail remains motionless.

Notice the SS Driver who is looking back and waiting for the head shot to step on the gas!

[jobycom]

11. There's a lot more evidence that we've been sold nonsense ever since

But I guess I'm a brainwashed dupe despite my advanced history degrees, extreme cynicism of everything the government says, and the fact that I knew one of the people in the motorcade (years later--Ralph Yarborough). But to me and my historical training with evidence, you can put all the conspiracy theories in a pile with the WC, treat them all as equal theories, and the WC will come out as having the most logical interpretation and presentation of the evidence. It clearly had holes, it clearly should have been handled better, and it clearly was not independent enough, but not a single one of the conspiracy theories can claim to be better in any one of those categories.

I've never heard an objective observer--someone who started looking at the facts before deciding what he or she believed--who concluded that Oswald wasn't the shooter. I've met people who claimed to be objective, but somewhere down in the discussion they will always let it slip that they just don't trust the government's story just because it's the government and they can't believe Kennedy was just shot by a lone gunman. Once past that bias, the facts point to Oswald.

[mrgorth]

8. I admit

to not looking at the pro-lone gunmen stuff out there but the pro-conspiracy stuff I've seen seems pretty good. Just watching all the people running towards the stockade fence seems awfully fishy. And the idea of "back and to the left" being a result of a shot from the rear seems completely counterintuitive to me.

"Located near the north grassy knoll on November 22, 1963, were several witnesses; three large traffic signposts; four sidewalk lamp posts; the John Neely Bryan north pergola cement structure, including its two enclosed shelters; a tool shed; one 3.3' high cement wall connected to each of the pergola shelters; ten tall, wide, low-hanging live oak trees; a 5' tall, wooden, cornered, stockade fenceline approximately 176' long; six street curb sewers openings, their sewer manholes, and their interconnecting large pipes; and numerous 2' to 6' tall bushes, trees, and hedges. Behind the picket fence was the train control tower which Lee E. Bowers was working in during the assassination; He claims to have seen 5 people from which 2 looked like policemen and 3 were welders; He also claims to have seen smoke emerge from where the 5 people were standing when the shots were fired.


The wooden fence. The grassy knoll is out of frame to the left.Some assassination theories have concluded that a shot or shots came from the north grassy knoll during the assassination. The House Select Committee on Assassinations investigation from 1975 to 1979 concluded that there was a high probability that there were four shots fired at the president, and that there was a high probabilty that the third of four shots came from behind the picket fence on the grassy knoll, but missed. They also determined that 'there was a probable conspiracy in the assassination of President Kennedy.'"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grassy_knoll

[Redneck Socialist]

9. I wouldn't make too much of how Kennedy's head moved.

I've shot deer that have fallen toward me, not away from the shot as you would likely imagine.

The body responds in funny ways when the central nervous system is hit.

[rman]

14. Forensic experts do make a lot of it.

But there are always anonymous unverified experts who know better.

[rman]

15. Moreover, it isn't so much about direction of "falling",

but rather about the direction of movement due to bullet impact.

A deer you shoot may "fall" in any direction _after_ it has been shot. But if you hit it in the head, then the head will move/'jerk' in the direction the bullet is traveling - which has nothing to do with the central nervous system but has everything to do what basic physics (conservation of momentum).

[rman]

12. see "The Kennedy Assassination - Beyond Conspiracy"

It's an attempt to debunk JFK CTs. The interesting thing re single bullet is that it does not mention Connely's injuries to his right wrist and left thigh.
Nor does it explain all the lack of standard procedure security measures such as making sure that all windows along the route are closed.

[maine_raptor]

18. This is one bloody horse you all are beating on.

I've seen maybe hundreds of threads on this site (and others) on the SBT. My take:

Either you believe it or not.

But in the end, it doesn't matter.

Because the question is moot.

We know there was more probably than not there was another shooter that day. The evidence is overwhelming and quite franky I put those who don't believe that in the same category as those who don't believe mankind made it to the Moon.

The real question should be: How did JFK's death change America. That leads back to what is happening today and is much more relevant than how a bullet that was fired 32 1/2 years got mangled or not.

[rman]

19. Other interesting questions:

Why?
Who?
How?

All of which have quite a bit to do with how America (and the rest of the world) has changed since.


On the one hand you seem to be sure Oswald did not act alone, on the other hand you seem to argue that it's irrelevant whether or not there was a conspiracy and a coverup.

The very reason why this discussion is still going on, is that there are people who believe there was no conspiracy and no coverup.

[maine_raptor]

20. Don't get me wrong

There WAS a conspiracy AND a cover-up.

All I'm saying is that at this late date in history it is more relevant to look at the event as one step on the pathway to how we got here.

I will bow to very few in the long history of the JFK Assassination Investigation. I have actually read ALL 26 volumes of the Hearings and Exhibits. My book-closet is filled with books, papers, documents, photos, and other materials on 11/22/63. For many years what happened that day was an obsession with me.

Time moves on, and as the years passed, my view of the event changed. Not as to if there was a conspiracy and a cover-up (I've never wavered in that view), but rather on the "long-term" effects and as a lesson in American History.

[rman]

22. I see your point,

I to think the big picture is more important than the details of what happened that day. Spending time on several of these kinds of big events (WW2, JFK, MLK, Vietnam, Iran-Contra, etc etc) i get the impression that these do all tie together - and it's not a pretty picture. Big, but not pretty.

But people who believe the official story are never going to get the big picture while they are ignorant of what happened that day. Probably some are disinfo agents, but there are also many who are undecided, or who don't realize the importance.

Re. the Warren report: is it true that many of the witnesses cited in the 26 volumes had nothing (or very little) to do with the events surrounding the assassination, that the information is very disorganized, and that there's a lot of information in the 26 volumes that is fact in contradiction with the final conclusion but didn't make it to the final report?

[maine_raptor]

25. The 26 volumes paint an 180 degree different picture of 11/22/63

Just a couple of points of info found in the 26 vols, but not too well known:

1) FBI reports on the rifle show that the scope was loosely mounted. Shims had to be inserted in order to steady it and make it usable. The rifle was found to fire high and to the left. The Report stated that this mis-alignment "helped" Oswald's marksmanship. (FBI Reports found in the 26 Vols.)

2) The firing pin on Oswald' pistol was broken and was not able to dent the primer of bullets present in the pistol. (FBI Reports.)

3) Jack Ruby pleaded with the members of the Warren Commission to take him to Washington for an interview (he was interviewed in his Dallas jail cell). Ruby stated that he could not tell "the whole story" while in Dallas. Chief Justice Earl Warren, who was there, told Ruby he thought he did not have the power to take Ruby from Dallas to DC (in fact he did). Among the members of the Commission present that day; Gerald R. Ford and Arlan Specter (Chief Council). (Hearings - Testimony of Jack Ruby.)

4) No spare ammo for the rifle was ever found in Oswald's possessions. The FBI scoured rifle ranges around the Dallas/Fort Worth area and were never able to find any spent casings that could have come from Oswald's rifle in spite of "eyewitnesses" that claimed to have seen Oswald practicing with the rifle prior to the assassination. (FBI Reports.)

As for it being disorganized...........the 26 volumes of Hearings and Exhibits contain no official index.

And the list can go on and on.

[rman]

28. thanks

This confirms what is presented in Stone's "JFK"

[ieoeja]

21. Read Blackhawk Down

You will find scores of descriptions of bullets doing pretty much the same thing as what has been alleged in the Kennedy assassination.

[reprehensor]

23. THE "LONE-NUTTER" REFUTATION

http://assassinationresearch.com/v1n1/lonenutter.html
by James H. Fetzer