The solution is Give Illegals work permits - Don't give them citizenship

[APPLE314]

You cannot reward someone with citizenship for breaking the law.

They need work, We have work, so let them work. Give them a tamper proof, numbered, Work Permit. No work permit, then no USA. Let the illegals get in line for citizenships, and wait their turn, like millions of other Americans have done. It would help if they had sponsors, like they used to do to out forefathers who immigrated.

Let the work permit card be numbered and when there are too many illegals in any one year then send certain numbers back, for lack of work. For example, only even numbered cards work in even numbered years. Because the illegals are "only doing jobs that no one else wants", sending home the odd or even numbers wouldn't interfere with productivity.



Work Permits - Not Citizenship ___ Work Permits - Not Citizenship ___ Work Permits - Not Citizenship ___ Work Permits - Not Citizenship ___ Work Permits - Not Citizenship ___ Work Permits - Not Citizenship ___ Work Permits - Not Citizenship ___ Work Permits - Not Citizenship ___ Work Permits - Not Citizenship ___ Work Permits - Not Citizenship ___ Work Permits - Not Citizenship ___ Work Permits - Not Citizenship ___ Work Permits - Not Citizenship ___ Work Permits - Not Citizenship ___ Work Permits - Not Citizenship ___ .

[liberalpress]

1. That would be great except...

... the real reason they're a problem is that they're poor and their skin isn't white... your solution won't satisfy most who object to their presence.

[MADem]

2. Fine employers who hire undocumented workers, HEAVILY

How long before you think a swell forgery of those permits will appear? There will be 12,000 guys all named HECTOR MARTINEZ, Work Permit #45912X06, working from Maine to California. Just remember to answer to Hector, Jose, and you will be fine!!!

[mattclearing]

3. Do the work permits qualify them for minimum wage?

How about health care? 401K plan?

If these work permits of which you speak afford less actual rights to these workers than American citizens get, it's simply unacceptable.

[shamrock]

9. we need to worry

about American citizens having health care and 401K plans first. We need to take care of our homeless that are living on the streets. How about taking care of the displaced people from hurricane Katrina? Let's take care of our own citizens before taking care of another countries citizens.

[mattclearing]

17. That's crap.

The American ideal is that all men (people) are created equal. Not all citizens. It takes us a while to catch up to our ideals, but that's no reason to forsake them.

Besides, clearly we are going to, "take care of our own" first. We always have.

[shamrock]

19. Oh really?

We take care of our own? Since When?

[mattclearing]

21. Like I said, it takes awhile.

But the idea that the government is going to take care of illegal immigrants before it takes care of Katrina refugees or people without healthcare is laughable.

In reality, you are correct, it may never get around to any of them.

But chances are that policymakers will eventually tackle them in order of priority, as political concerns make it necessary.

History bears this out, whether it's abolition, the labor movement, civil rights, etc.

[shamrock]

23. That's my point

'priorities'. We already have too many citizens in this country who, through no fault of their own, don't have health care, homes, food, etc. And yes, we do have plenty of working poor in this country. In an ideal world we wouldn't have borders, we wouldn't have hungry, poor people without medical care. But we don't live in an ideal world. If we can't even take care of our own why are we even considering how to take care of others? Why don't we open our borders to some of the poor Iraqui people whose homes and lives we're destroying. What hypocrites we are.

[mattclearing]

26. But we CAN take care of our own.

We simply choose not to. Enriching military contractors, corporate giveaways, tax breaks, etc., are all more important than taking care of our "citizens."

[kestrel91316]

20. While all people may be created equal, it is and has always been

the right of the state to decide who its citizens are, and what special privileges they enjoy.

Every other nation on earth gets to control its borders and decide who enters. Why not the US?

[mattclearing]

22. Because we are the nation of immigrants.

Our whole appeal to the world is built on our historical acceptance of and opportunity for immigrants.

[abburdlen]

4. Ask France

how that idea is working out for them.

The idea of having a large segment of the population working in the fields, cleaning houses and adding to our economy in innumerable ways but having no political voice... is just dumb on so many levels.

There is a problem but a permanent class of less equal workers is not the answer.

[Teaser]

5. That hasn't worked ANYWHERE.

It's what France and other european countries have done. And what it's resulted in is a large population of alienated and non-assimilated low wage workers who don't get considered in any major decisions of the government.

It's for this very reason you see frequent riots in muslim and north African communities in europe.

[abburdlen]

7. jinx

buy me a coke
:)

[Teaser]

25. I'll buy you crab juice

and YOU'LL LIKE IT!

[Caution]

6. They wouldn't have had to break the law if this country

weren't so damned xenophobic in the first place. We used to be proud to take in immigrants. What happened to that? I say put them on the path to citizenship now.

[Deep13]

8. two reasons to disagree

first: it perpetuates our unsustainable economy by injecting more cheap labor which uses more irreplaceable resources. Our glutonous economy depends on cheap energy, cheap land and cheap labor to work it. That labor also consumes resources requiring more cheap labor, land and energy to support it. It is an unsustainable vicious cycle. The answer isn't more production, it is less people and less waste.

second: Foreigners, legal or otherwise, can't vote but they are counted for census purposes. That has shifted Congressional and electoral college representation to Southern states giving the Rs a lock on the House and the presidency. It is a bit like the antebellum 3/5 compromise for counting slaves, except that foreigners are counted in whole numbers. If they are going to stay, they have to be granted citizenship so they can vote for their representatives. If not, they must go so they will no longer be counted for Congressional apportionment.

[sui generis]

10. it's funny how impractical this line of thinking is.

do you live in a heavily concentrated latino area? Could you imagine going door to door in San Antonio 40% of the population? "Send them back".

We don't have enough police officers AND military members to even think about such a thing.

You're buying into the grandstanding - but the economic solution (disaster) is definitely NOT work permits. They're here. Accept it - that's just the way it is and no matter how much some pundit thinks it shouldn't be that way, it's a fact that can't be changed.

If you want to address the problem, then address the borders with a real plan to REDUCE the number of new illegal immigrants. Offer a global amnesty now, and then stringently police new illegals and anyone who didn't take up amnesty, and you might be 10% closer to a real solution.

Punishing employers - another half baked idea. I'm an employer when I hire a lawn service or a housekeeping service. I don't check my plumber's identification, why should I be punished for failing to check my lawn-dude's ID? Where do you draw the line? Most offending "employers" are service takers, NOT Wal-Mart.

[HereSince1628]

11. Or something like that. At least recognize them as expatriated workers

who have citizenship obligations in their home nations and participatory responsibilities here.

Quit forcing them to live in the gaps of society.

[BR_Parkway]

12. If you put CEO's in jail for hiring illegals, then the rest of the issue

takes care of itself. As long as they can find a job (low pay by our standards, but higher than what they'd get back home) then they are going to come.

But the laws are already on the books to fix the issue. Enforce the current laws.

[northzax]

13. so we create a permanent underclass?

who have no investment in the country beyond working here, no reason to become part of society? that sounds brilliant.

nothing, by the way, is tamper proof. for a thousand bucks, I can buy you a fairly decent green card (numbered and logoed) it won't pass inspection by DHS, but it'll get you a job. for 1500, I'll get you a stolen US passport, with your picture. looks real as possible.

[RaleighNCDUer]

14. My problem with this is that they are only illegal because the

law was created specifically to create a caste of illegal workers who could be exploited. If you remove the possibility of exploitation by giving out work permits, which would result in them being paid the prevailing local wage or minimum wage, you remove the fundamental reason for the law which made them illegal to begin with, so why not fast-track them to citizenship if they want it?

They are not criminals. They did not come here to break our laws. The just came to work. The criminalization of their coming, however, has spawned a huge criminal enterprise that begins with people, and drug, smuggling and continues across the border with involuntary servitude and prostitution as people are forced to pay off their smuggling debts.

Open the border; let them come in, properly vetted for criminal history, with legal papers (meaning no more forged documents, identity theft, etc.). Those who can make the adjustment to American culture have the option of citizenship -- the 60 - 70 percent who are only here for the money, and prefer the culture in which they were raised, will return home after a time to further raise the standard of living where they came from.

Additionally, if everyone has legal papers the criminal few who will still cross the border, as they always have, will stand out even among the immigrants. Their own people will call the police on them, if they have no worries about being arrested themselves -- the criminals can only thrive in a population that has been declared illegal as a whole.

[judaspriestess]

15. screw that and create a second class citizen

do some research before you come out with crap like this. did you ALWAYS feel like this or just recently started thinking this way since karl rove threw this red herring out. I bet $.01 this shit never crossed your mind.
Low wages? whats low wages? $15.00 an hour, lets see casinos pay housekeepers $11.00-15.00 an hour (lots of work here in vegas for housekeepers) construction - piece workers - make about $500.00 to $700.00 a week. Casinos can't pay "under the table" btw.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

16. Horrible idea.

Yeah, how are they going to apply for a work permit? Here's how THAT will work:

"Hello Mr. Government Official, I'm here illegally, can I have a work permit?

Oh... wait. You mean I just turned myself in to the authorities and am going to be deported now? Shit."

[mattclearing]

18. LOL. n/t

[sadiesworld]

24. Work toward citizenship for those already here

and go after employers for any future hiring of illegal immigrants. If the shortage of willing workers is that dire increase legal immigration quotas (after expediting the process for those already in the queue). Note: rising wages should be an absolute prerequisite to increased quotas.

Permits and temp programs are rife with problems and abuses.

Shuttling masses of cheap labor around may make corporate globalists happy, but it doesn't make for a well-treated, politically-invested, harmonious population.

[yurbud]

27. employers lose the incentive to hire them if they have to pay min wage

they like them illegal because the get out of the tax and labor laws.

It fits one of the core GOP ideals--CHEAP LABOR.

[Radical Activist]

28. There is so much wrong with this post.

First, my ancestors, like most others of European dissent, did not have to come in illegally and wait for years to become citizens. They just got here and signed up at someplace like Ellis Island. To compare the typical 19th or 18th century immigration story to today is completely out of touch with reality.

Second, creating an entire class of second class citizens will only benefit the large corporations seeking a temporary low-wage work force. Someone who only has a work permit will not be allowed to stay in America and become a member of the middle class. That helps no one.

I'm just curious, what rights will the second class citizens living in the US have? Will the police have to abide by laws that apply to citizens or will Bush fall back on his argument that the US can do anything it wants to anyone as long as they aren't American, ie Guantanamo?

[bluedog]

29. USA I what a strange country we are

USA IS A FUNNY COUNTRY

where illegals are getting to decide the policy of the government.


Why don't we "outsource" this bill to be decided to Mexico and let them declare Amnesty for all of them

and maybe give out WELCOME TO AMERICA baskets also along with their Citizenship Papers all paid for by our Tax Money.

we have a problem .......and the first number 1 priority is "secure the borders'..........number 2...immuniziations for all illegals...to deter any outbreak of disease .that this country has not seen in many years......

number 3......by crossing the border.they were breaking the law....and by getting fake SS#'s and papers they again broke the law.........
what does the government do to the Citizens of the US when he/she uses a fake document?.yes its a felony......

[flaminbats]

30. that isn't the solution...that is the problem!

illegals are currently getting work permits, they are coming into our country illegally to be rewarded, but without the right to vote or without paying income tax. They are having children in our country, but without sending those children to school or even granting these children a native country.

We have more and more illegals, baby-boomers who are just getting older, with fewer and fewer working citizens to pay into Medicare and Social Security. Dodging this crises will only lead our country into disaster. Either we must grant these people citizenship...just as the Confederates were given back citizenship during reconstruction. Or we must treat illegals and all who hire them like criminals..granting them nothing but punishment.

Work permits for illegals shall only reward the wrong behavior among corporations and those who wish to live here without paying taxes or obeying our laws. But denying citizenship is only denying the reality of what our nation is becoming.

[underpants]

31. We just need to upgrage the system so we can keep track of immigrants

but that would mean more money into the government and possibly hiring more people. What to guess how that will go over in DC?

[flaminbats]

32. we need to do more than just keep track of immigrants..

we need to grant immigrants citizenship over time. we need to make these workers into taxpayers with rights.